Adalius Thomas Back To The Ravens?

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

after the overwhelming response toward the TO idea... what about adalius thomas? its a similar situation to TO in that we have depth in the position, hes had attitude/production problems of late, and hes burned baltimore once before... its also similar in that there has been a league-wide lack of interest thus far and could be available for cheap with little committment.

do you feel he could help us win now? and would you like to see him back in the purple and black this coming season? if so, what type of deal would you like to give him?

[RavensAllTheWay]

I don't feel the need to bring him in. We have a good dose of young depth at OLB anyway. Now maybe guys like Kindle, Barnes and others could learn from a vet like Adalius, but they could probably learn a lot more from JJ. Because he would seem far more willing to be a mentor than a guy like Adalius, who as you mentioned has had minor "attitude issues" as of late.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

[quote name='RavensAllTheWay' date='23 May 2010 - 05:06 PM' timestamp='1274652388' post='413469']
I don't feel the need to bring him in. We have a good dose of young depth at OLB anyway. Now maybe guys like Kindle, Barnes and others could learn from a vet like Adalius, but they could probably learn a lot more from JJ. Because he would seem far more willing to be a mentor than a guy like Adalius, who as you mentioned has had minor "attitude issues" as of late.
[/quote]


good and valid points... but my main question isnt whether we need him, but can he help us win now? would he make us better??? yes we have youth and vets, but he could possibly allow us to slide JJ inside and let AT and Kindle rotate outside. maybe suggs can play more DE and have JJ, AT, and Kindle have a 3 way rotation on the outside. i guess what im getting at is a player like him could open up a lot of options bc hes proven in our system and could be bought for cheap and with minimal commitment

[theFRANCHISE]

As much as I have sentimental feelings over AD, I feel as if his comments in the media since going to the Patriots have shown that maybe he was more selfish than we assumed. He burned his bridges in Baltimore and he alienated himself from some of his teammates and the coaching staff in New England. Even though Bill Belichick is a disciplinarian, his method is tried-and-true -- so if a veteran like Thomas can't fall in line, what does that say about Thomas and his ego?

He's not a locker room cancer by any means, but it makes you wonder if he feels a sense of entitlement just because of the years he's put in. We had never seen Thomas speak out in Baltimore as he did in New England, so you also have to wonder if so much money and success had changed his work ethic from when he first started as a 6th-round pick. Furthermore, his age seems to have slowed him down. Thomas had to have been benched for either two reasons: lack of production or lack of commitment. There's no other reason that Belichick would bench a player if he had any upside.

[flynismo]

It's very simple. What do we gain by adding TO? What do we gain by adding AD?

The one thing they both have in common is that they are both washed up has beens.

On a team loaded with young talent itching to make their marks, and with veteran talent in place who are much better than TO and AD, what purpose would it serve to bring either guy in?

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

[quote name='theFRANCHISE' date='23 May 2010 - 05:30 PM' timestamp='1274653804' post='413478']
As much as I have sentimental feelings over AD, I feel as if his comments in the media since going to the Patriots have shown that maybe he was more selfish than we assumed. He burned his bridges in Baltimore and he alienated himself from some of his teammates and the coaching staff in New England. Even though Bill Belichick is a disciplinarian, his method is tried-and-true -- so if a veteran like Thomas can't fall in line, what does that say about Thomas and his ego?

He's not a locker room cancer by any means, but it makes you wonder if he feels a sense of entitlement just because of the years he's put in. We had never seen Thomas speak out in Baltimore as he did in New England, so you also have to wonder if so much money and success had changed his work ethic from when he first started as a 6th-round pick. Furthermore, his age seems to have slowed him down. Thomas had to have been benched for either two reasons: lack of production or lack of commitment. There's no other reason that Belichick would bench a player if he had any upside.
[/quote]


much appreciated response... well articulated and supported argument. this is the type of conversation i was hoping to start when posting a topic like this. it allows for good, healthy debate back and forth; unlike the emotionally based ones that many fans tend to stand by. i like that you pointed out the emotional attachment you have and attempted to steer clear of it. Thanks!

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

[quote name='flynismo' date='23 May 2010 - 05:35 PM' timestamp='1274654128' post='413480']
It's very simple. What do we gain by adding TO? What do we gain by adding AD?

The one thing they both have in common is that they are both washed up has beens.

On a team loaded with young talent itching to make their marks, and with veteran talent in place who are much better than TO and AD, what purpose would it serve to bring either guy in?
[/quote]


off topic, but who besides boldin and mason are better than TO? especially since he'd be facing nickle and dime backs instead of #1 corners like he has been... i agree we are very deep at LB and WR with lots of youth, BUT when you are a serious super bowl contender you need proven guys who can get it done NOW. and what about injuries?? heaven forbid, what if boldin or mason get hurt? wouldnt it be nice to know you someone like TO to slide in so production wont drop during those couple games? and what if JJ gets hurt, or kindle doesnt break out his rookie year?

i am not saying we should get either, just playing devils advocate. to say both are washed up is a bit harsh. 50+ receptions for 900 yards is hardly washed up when you have no QB or O-line to protect the non-existent QB. and i dont think NE's scheme was a good fit for thomas, nor should he have been given that sort of contract. but you are entitled to your opinion and i agree with it to an extent, but id respect it more with some non-emotionally motivated points, or atleast some grounded in fact.

[RavensAllTheWay]

[quote name='BOLDnPurPnBlacK' date='23 May 2010 - 06:46 PM' timestamp='1274654781' post='413487']
off topic, but who besides boldin and mason are better than TO? especially since he'd be facing nickle and dime backs instead of #1 corners like he has been... i agree we are very deep at LB and WR with lots of youth, BUT when you are a serious super bowl contender you need proven guys who can get it done NOW. and what about injuries?? heaven forbid, what if boldin or mason get hurt? wouldnt it be nice to know you someone like TO to slide in so production wont drop during those couple games? and what if JJ gets hurt, or kindle doesnt break out his rookie year?

i am not saying we should get either, just playing devils advocate. to say both are washed up is a bit harsh. 50+ receptions for 900 yards is hardly washed up when you have no QB or O-line to protect the non-existent QB. and i dont think NE's scheme was a good fit for thomas, nor should he have been given that sort of contract. but you are entitled to your opinion and i agree with it to an extent, but id respect it more with some non-emotionally motivated points, or atleast some grounded in fact.
[/quote]
TO: I agree he's not washed up just yet. Age will only do so much to a player, it's not nearly as big a factor as the majority of fans/spectators make it out to be. And I don't at all think he's a locker room cancer, since he wasn't one up in Buffalo, despite playing in a bad offense and on a losing team. And veteran instincts often times prove to be the difference when it comes to big regular season games and playoff games. Honestly, I'm not totally against the idea of bringing him in for a year or two. He only got a 1 year, $6.5 million deal last year, which leads me to believe he won't demand much money this year.

AD: I think he has a much better chance of being a locker room cancer than TO. Even though I think character is taken way too seriously when it comes to drafting or signing FAs, who knows with a guy like AD. Also, I don't think he would help the team much by coming in. If JJ or Suggs get hurt and we need a replacement at OLB, well then Barnes and Kindle will have to step in. When it comes to those suggestions you made to me in your previous post about moving people around, I don't think moving JJ inside of Suggs to DE or making sure AD is on the field a lot are necessarily good things. To me, it seems more like taking talented players and putting them in positions that they aren't necessarily used to, which could become a major problem.

[Dan The Man Ravens #1 Fan]

I know that I am not the only one who feels this way but I will only speak for myself. I absolutely loved having A T on the Ravens. I thought he proved himself worthy and earned all the love and respect he got from the fans. He was a total nightmare for oposing D cordinators. Week after week he gave Raven fans something to be excited about. You never knew what was coming next.
Having said that I also feel that his success was contributed alot to the team that surrounded him. There is some proof to this by his performance in NE. Some of his failure may also come from the money he recieved. He seemed to lose some of his desire once he got paid.
A T had every opportunity to stay here in Baltimore and maintain his elite status. The problem was he didnt like not being the Fan Favorite. We all know who the Fan Favorite is--- Ray Lewis. A T made it clear of his feelings about Ray through the media. This did not sit well with me as I am sure alot of others.
Now that a few years have passed I dont think A T could come in here and regain the respect of his teamates, the coaches, and escpecially the fans. Im not even sure he has the same ability or desire to be the player he once was. I for one say thanks for the memories but no thank you to come back.

[ellicottraven]

Do you really believe AT wants to come to Baltimore after the episode he had with Ray Lewis once he got to New England. I think not. He would have a hard time fitting back in to the mix. Also, we really don't need him now since Mattison is not as creative as Rex was in his schemes. However, this is meant as no disrespect to Mattison because he is a very good DC, just an opinion.

[Twoo]

Next up, should we re-sign Stover? How about TO?

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

[quote name='RavensAllTheWay' date='23 May 2010 - 06:16 PM' timestamp='1274656614' post='413496']
TO: I agree he's not washed up just yet. Age will only do so much to a player, it's not nearly as big a factor as the majority of fans/spectators make it out to be. And I don't at all think he's a locker room cancer, since he wasn't one up in Buffalo, despite playing in a bad offense and on a losing team. And veteran instincts often times prove to be the difference when it comes to big regular season games and playoff games. Honestly, I'm not totally against the idea of bringing him in for a year or two. He only got a 1 year, $6.5 million deal last year, which leads me to believe he won't demand much money this year.

AD: I think he has a much better chance of being a locker room cancer than TO. Even though I think character is taken way too seriously when it comes to drafting or signing FAs, who knows with a guy like AD. Also, I don't think he would help the team much by coming in. If JJ or Suggs get hurt and we need a replacement at OLB, well then Barnes and Kindle will have to step in. When it comes to those suggestions you made to me in your previous post about moving people around, I don't think moving JJ inside of Suggs to DE or making sure AD is on the field a lot are necessarily good things. To me, it seems more like taking talented players and putting them in positions that they aren't necessarily used to, which could become a major problem.
[/quote]


I agree... very good points. thank you for the insights, ones that are poignant and not just emotionally charged. with these topics im just trying to provide something new to talk about, and playing devils advocate a bit with my replies to certain posts that i think deserve a bit of arguing with (the ones that are only based on emotion).

so again, great post with very valid and well thought opinions!

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

[quote name='Dan The Man Ravens #1 Fan' date='23 May 2010 - 06:27 PM' timestamp='1274657221' post='413502']
I know that I am not the only one who feels this way but I will only speak for myself. I absolutely loved having A T on the Ravens. I thought he proved himself worthy and earned all the love and respect he got from the fans. He was a total nightmare for oposing D cordinators. Week after week he gave Raven fans something to be excited about. You never knew what was coming next.
Having said that I also feel that his success was contributed alot to the team that surrounded him. There is some proof to this by his performance in NE. Some of his failure may also come from the money he recieved. He seemed to lose some of his desire once he got paid.
A T had every opportunity to stay here in Baltimore and maintain his elite status. The problem was he didnt like not being the Fan Favorite. We all know who the Fan Favorite is--- Ray Lewis. A T made it clear of his feelings about Ray through the media. This did not sit well with me as I am sure alot of others.
Now that a few years have passed I dont think A T could come in here and regain the respect of his teamates, the coaches, and escpecially the fans. Im not even sure he has the same ability or desire to be the player he once was. I for one say thanks for the memories but no thank you to come back.
[/quote]



well put and im in complete agreement. i dont think hes the same player, and i think the contract NE gave him was terrible... he hadnt proven his performance was based on his individual skill. i think before offering someone that type of contract they must prove they can perform outside a certain system, especially coming from a team like the ravens which has proven time and time again that mediocre players can play at elite levels within our system and with the players our team brings in every year.

thanks for you insight

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

[quote name='Twoo' date='23 May 2010 - 06:57 PM' timestamp='1274659061' post='413510']
Next up, should we re-sign Stover? How about TO?
[/quote]



haha why not? its better than going over the CB situation for the thousandth time or spewing all the same comments about how great our offense is going to be... at this rate by the time the season hits if our offense isnt number 1 everyones going to be bummed it seems... or if the cbs dont get abused everyones going to be shocked and completely pleased.

just thought ppl might want a little change of pace and discuss something we all havent done a million times already this offseason

(sarcastic, yes.... hopefully didnt offend anyone, i hope you get the point tho)

[flynismo]

[quote name='BOLDnPurPnBlacK' date='23 May 2010 - 05:46 PM' timestamp='1274654781' post='413487']
off topic, but who besides boldin and mason are better than TO? especially since he'd be facing nickle and dime backs instead of #1 corners like he has been... i agree we are very deep at LB and WR with lots of youth, BUT when you are a serious super bowl contender you need proven guys who can get it done NOW. and what about injuries?? heaven forbid, what if boldin or mason get hurt? wouldnt it be nice to know you someone like TO to slide in so production wont drop during those couple games? and what if JJ gets hurt, or kindle doesnt break out his rookie year?

i am not saying we should get either, just playing devils advocate. to say both are washed up is a bit harsh. 50+ receptions for 900 yards is hardly washed up when you have no QB or O-line to protect the non-existent QB. and i dont think NE's scheme was a good fit for thomas, nor should he have been given that sort of contract. but you are entitled to your opinion and i agree with it to an extent, but id respect it more with some non-emotionally motivated points, or atleast some grounded in fact.
[/quote]


Not sure why you think my response was emotionally motivated. I said they are both washed up, which is the truth. They have both clearly lost a step. I'm not the type who lays blame on a system for a player's performance. A true impact player will thrive anywhere. TO was declining before he even left Dallas, and AD is looking like yet another product of our system (even Ray Lewis sez so. I'll have to find that link for you; found Ray's comments interesting--even went so far as to call AD a coward).
The statement that they have both played well below their previous standards the past couple years is also a fact, you can look it up and see for yourself.

So hopefully you are satisfied that my response was neither emotional nor unfactual.

[RavensAllTheWay]

[quote name='flynismo' date='23 May 2010 - 11:35 PM' timestamp='1274672112' post='413614']
Not sure why you think my response was emotionally motivated. I said they are both washed up, which is the truth. They have both clearly lost a step. I'm not the type who lays blame on a system for a player's performance. A true impact player will thrive anywhere. TO was declining before he even left Dallas, and AD is looking like yet another product of our system (even Ray Lewis sez so. I'll have to find that link for you; found Ray's comments interesting--even went so far as to call AD a coward).
The statement that they have both played well below their previous standards the past couple years is also a fact, you can look it up and see for yourself.

So hopefully you are satisfied that my response was neither emotional nor unfactual.
[/quote]
I think there's a difference between washed up and lost a step. I'll agree TO (and AD for that matter) are way past their peak, but imo, washed up means they're not even good anymore. I can see TO being at least semi-productive in our offense.

I can honestly say I'm tied up about TO. Do I think were gonna sign him? Hell no. Am I against signing him? Not necessarily, but I'll be OK with any decision Ozzie makes regarding him. However, I too am against bringing AD in.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

[quote name='flynismo' date='23 May 2010 - 10:35 PM' timestamp='1274672112' post='413614']
Not sure why you think my response was emotionally motivated. I said they are both washed up, which is the truth. They have both clearly lost a step. I'm not the type who lays blame on a system for a player's performance. A true impact player will thrive anywhere. TO was declining before he even left Dallas, and AD is looking like yet another product of our system (even Ray Lewis sez so. I'll have to find that link for you; found Ray's comments interesting--even went so far as to call AD a coward).
The statement that they have both played well below their previous standards the past couple years is also a fact, you can look it up and see for yourself.

So hopefully you are satisfied that my response was neither emotional nor unfactual.
[/quote]

yes, that was much more satisfying of a response... but still dont think it warrents calling them washed up. before TO's last year in buffalo he had 70 some catches for over 1,000 yards. only last year did his total slip below 1,000 and thats was in a terrible offense with no QB or O-line. considering the number of 1,000 yard recievers there are in the league at any age... a guy doing hit in his mid 30's is hardly washed up as you put it.

that being said, i do agree with you that i dont think either are a fit for baltimore. as ive said many time, i only created this for some healthy debate and to stir up some conversation. i just didnt want you to sell yourself short by simply saying theyre washed up, but rather you support the claim and show the knowledge you have that allowed you to come to that conclusion, which youve done so quite well with this more recent post. now for someone to argue your claim they will have to do their own research to try and debunk your claims.... and thats the point.

i want more knowledgable discussions so we come to more useful conclusions in these forums instead of the normal... hey i like this or i dont like that. that way we educate the casual fans, as im sure youve done now with your post. so thank you

[Dan The Man Ravens #1 Fan]

[quote name='RavensAllTheWay' date='23 May 2010 - 11:42 PM' timestamp='1274672559' post='413620']
I think there's a difference between washed up and lost a step. I'll agree TO (and AD for that matter) are way past their peak, but imo, washed up means they're not even good anymore. I can see TO being at least semi-productive in our offense.

I can honestly say I'm tied up about TO. Do I think were gonna sign him? Hell no. Am I against signing him? Not necessarily, but I'll be OK with any decision Ozzie makes regarding him. However, I too am against bringing AD in.
[/quote]

I think if I am correctly reading statements from Flynismo and a few others that have graced our forum with oh such wise words is that bringing in players quite passed their prime would first limit the quality of production. This game is getting faster and faster, the players are getting stronger and more savvy. With these decreasing attributes pinned to their performance,lets say less than team first mentality, (I am being nice), It would not be a wise decision to risk the basis in which this team presents itself as.

[flynismo]

[quote name='BOLDnPurPnBlacK' date='23 May 2010 - 10:55 PM' timestamp='1274673358' post='413622']
yes, that was much more satisfying of a response... but still dont think it warrents calling them washed up. before TO's last year in buffalo he had 70 some catches for over 1,000 yards. only last year did his total slip below 1,000 and thats was in a terrible offense with no QB or O-line. considering the number of 1,000 yard recievers there are in the league at any age... a guy doing hit in his mid 30's is hardly washed up as you put it.

that being said, i do agree with you that i dont think either are a fit for baltimore. as ive said many time, i only created this for some healthy debate and to stir up some conversation. i just didnt want you to sell yourself short by simply saying theyre washed up, but rather you support the claim and show the knowledge you have that allowed you to come to that conclusion, which youve done so quite well with this more recent post. now for someone to argue your claim they will have to do their own research to try and debunk your claims.... and thats the point.

i want more knowledgable discussions so we come to more useful conclusions in these forums instead of the normal... hey i like this or i dont like that. that way we educate the casual fans, as im sure youve done now with your post. so thank you
[/quote]


Okay, I see that washed up was a poor choice of words, because to me it means player is past his prime, not necessarily totally ineffective.

In light of that, I go back to my previous question, which isn't necessarily directed to you, since you do not believe either would be a good fit for us.

In regard to TO and Thomas, what do we gain by bringing either aboard when more talented players who are still in their prime (Boldin, Mason, at this point of their careers, possibly Stallworth, Suggs and JJ) as well as young players who have potential to become very good players (Dickson, Pitta, and several LB) on the team?
If there is anything to gain, does it outweigh the risks ( 1. both have either a history of terrible behavior in the locker room or possible animosity with some of our current players, 2. both are old for the position they play and have shown drastic declines in their skill sets, regardless of how accurately it reflects in the stat line, 3. every minute that they are on the field stunts the development of a possible long term solution)?

[BloodRaven]

No, for the simple fact that TO is a circus freak with a sideshow that follows and documents his destruction of teams, and Thomas threw everyone under the bus when he left! HELLO!!!

[Bullrush]

[quote name='BOLDnPurPnBlacK' date='24 May 2010 - 12:01 AM' timestamp='1274652087' post='413467']do you feel he could help us win now? and would you like to see him back in the purple and black this coming season? if so, what type of deal would you like to give him?
[/quote]
No. No. And no deal.

We didn't need him when he left and we certainly don't need him now that he's hot and crawling back to us begging for another opportunity.

[Grave]

If AD will help us WIN Football Games & be a Vital Part of getting our Ravens back in the Super Bowl I am all for it. But the the TOP Bass Thinks AD will be a hinderance to the team than dont bother.

[Bltravens]

Simple reason really, AD isnt as good as JJ or Suggs at this point in their careers, also we dont run the same system as we did when AD was here. He isnt as good as our sub package OLB anymore.

[Purple Nurple]

No. Lets move on into the future. It bright.

[Clutch Ravens]

Once a bridge has been burned one can no longer walk accross it.

Unless it's repaired or you buy a boat.

Anyway, I don't want AD back. The guy has lost all respect and a few steps since departing to New England. His age, production, ego and work ethic paired with our deep young talent at OLB would suggest no, he can not help us win now or in the future. You think he may want reporters to "copy, paste and delete" the underhanded comments he made about us?

[AwakenTheDemon]

What's been the one major fault to our defense (and no, I'm not talking about the cornerbacks)? Age. Every offseason someone brings up that we need to add some new, young blood to our veteran defense, which has been true. AD is going into his, what, 12th NFL season? Not to mention his numbers has been dwindling every since he left Baltimore. So how would a 12 year veteran help out already aged defense? Let's not forget we drafted Kindle this year.

What can be said for TO can also be said for AD. They're both older veterans who aren't as effective at their respective positions as they once were, and there are younger guys at both positions who can get the job done.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

[quote name='flynismo' date='23 May 2010 - 11:41 PM' timestamp='1274676090' post='413641']
Okay, I see that washed up was a poor choice of words, because to me it means player is past his prime, not necessarily totally ineffective.

In light of that, I go back to my previous question, which isn't necessarily directed to you, since you do not believe either would be a good fit for us.

In regard to TO and Thomas, what do we gain by bringing either aboard when more talented players who are still in their prime (Boldin, Mason, at this point of their careers, possibly Stallworth, Suggs and JJ) as well as young players who have potential to become very good players (Dickson, Pitta, and several LB) on the team?
If there is anything to gain, does it outweigh the risks ( 1. both have either a history of terrible behavior in the locker room or possible animosity with some of our current players, 2. both are old for the position they play and have shown drastic declines in their skill sets, regardless of how accurately it reflects in the stat line, 3. every minute that they are on the field stunts the development of a possible long term solution)?
[/quote]


great question, and i dont really know... i dont think thomas could bring us anything. he'd destroy chemistry, i think he's well past his prime, and i do not believe he has the determination to get better anymore. I do think TO has the talent to help us out, and the reason i would consider it is that boldin and stallworth have injury issues. granted, boldin was unhappy with the situation in arizona and that may have played into it (not willing to do further damage just to hide in fitzgeralds shadow) but either way, come playoff time we need 3 healthy, effective recievers.

TO could produce for our team, especially since he would only be a #3. however, the million dollar question that you stated yourself, would his benefit outweight the risk.... and that i doubt. if TO were just the player, id love to have him in bc he would come cheap, can still produce, and would be injury insurance. but he's more than just a player, hes got the biggest ego in the nfl. not only that, there are some questions as to whether the trend will continue in his slipping numbers....

the biggest concern for me tho, is with the fans. both players have burned baltimore in the past, and this is the top organization as far as class goes, and with the classiest fans. the players are expected to uphold that level of class, and both of these guys at times have been class-less. since it would hurt a great number of fans if either guy was brought in, my vote is an overwhelming NO

[kash96ravenstotalfan]

[quote name='Dan The Man Ravens #1 Fan' date='23 May 2010 - 07:27 PM' timestamp='1274657221' post='413502']
I know that I am not the only one who feels this way but I will only speak for myself. I absolutely loved having A T on the Ravens. I thought he proved himself worthy and earned all the love and respect he got from the fans. He was a total nightmare for oposing D cordinators. Week after week he gave Raven fans something to be excited about. You never knew what was coming next.
Having said that I also feel that his success was contributed alot to the team that surrounded him. There is some proof to this by his performance in NE. Some of his failure may also come from the money he recieved. He seemed to lose some of his desire once he got paid.
A T had every opportunity to stay here in Baltimore and maintain his elite status. The problem was he didnt like not being the Fan Favorite. We all know who the Fan Favorite is--- Ray Lewis. A T made it clear of his feelings about Ray through the media. This did not sit well with me as I am sure alot of others.
Now that a few years have passed I dont think A T could come in here and regain the respect of his teamates, the coaches, and escpecially the fans. Im not even sure he has the same ability or desire to be the player he once was. I for one say thanks for the memories but no thank you to come back.
[/quote]
AT's comments about Ray Lewis in the media particularly did not sit well with Ray! I believe he called-out AT for the remarks that he made to the media, he should have addressed Ray directly - but I suppose that was too much to ask. I agree, we don;t want him back as a Raven

[Wacko4Zacko]

Only thing AD would be good for would be or 3rd down plays.

[Shammy]

We Just dont need him plain and simple he was good here for a few years he had maybe 1-2 good seasons with NE and hasnt really did much since