Pass Defense Last Year

[Runnin Raven]

Checking just a few numbers on NFL.com for 09 regular season:

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&defensiveStatisticCategory=TEAM_PASSING&conference=ALL&role=OPP&season=2009&seasonType=REG&d-447263-s=PASSING_NET_YARDS_GAME_AVG&d-447263-o=1&d-447263-n=1

- 8th rated pass D (207 yds/game)
- More picks (22) than TDs allowed (17)
- 58.4% completion % against

This was against most of the premier QBs in the league.

It felt more like we blew it at key moments (MIN, CIN (ugh), a few more I can't remember atm)

Guess what I'm sayin is we may not be as bad off as many think. That was a very respectable defense we put on the field last year, if perhaps not quite up to standard.

[AZravensfan]

[quote name='Runnin Raven' date='26 April 2010 - 01:32 PM' timestamp='1272313958' post='400509']
Checking just a few numbers on NFL.com for 09 regular season:

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&defensiveStatisticCategory=TEAM_PASSING&conference=ALL&role=OPP&season=2009&seasonType=REG&d-447263-s=PASSING_NET_YARDS_GAME_AVG&d-447263-o=1&d-447263-n=1

- 8th rated pass D (207 yds/game)
- More picks (22) than TDs allowed (17)
- 58.4% completion % against

This was against most of the premier QBs in the league.

It felt more like we blew it at key moments (MIN, CIN (ugh), a few more I can't remember atm)

Guess what I'm sayin is we may not be as bad off as many think. That was a very respectable defense we put on the field last year, if perhaps not quite up to standard.
[/quote]

Nice post! Our secondary did that with not that great of a pass rush also.

[bmorefan80]

Lets not forget, we almost led the league in PI calls. All those PI yards don't add up in the total yards given up.

[AZravensfan]

[quote name='bmorefan80' date='26 April 2010 - 01:43 PM' timestamp='1272314600' post='400514']
Lets not forget, we almost led the league in PI calls. All those PI yards don't add up in the total yards given up.
[/quote]

Solid point, but our secondary or D in all was nowhere near as bad as some people are making it out to be. Those PI calls definitely need to be cut back this year.

[T-ray]

And with better experience, PI will be cut down. You have to remember that we put out some young corners in Webb, Foxworth, and Washington. Considering their experience levels, they did remarkable in my opinion. Only reason I wanted a corner was for depth, not because I thought they did bad.

[ale boi]

you know what is going to help us out in the passing defence is nnuamdi asmougha

[PuRock]

[quote name='bmorefan80' date='26 April 2010 - 04:43 PM' timestamp='1272314600' post='400514']
Lets not forget, we almost led the league in PI calls. All those PI yards don't add up in the total yards given up.
[/quote]

Agreed . 1094 total yards in penalties (majority PI calls) and first in the league in penalty yards is not acceptable.

Sure the stats aren't too bad, but the problem is our secondary melted when it mattered the most, late in games. There's not stats for that.

I will agree that they did step up their game towards the end of the last season. But there is still a lot of growth that needs to be attained.

[MKdave]

The problem is that for this team 8th is not acceptable in any defensive category, and late game meltdowns certainly aren't. That said I've always felt that any corner can look elite with a great pass rush and an elite corner looks bad behind a bad pass rush. To put it in perspective, the year before we had the best defensive passer rating in the league and gave up the second fewest passing yards and people still weren't satisfied. This is the Ravens D that we're talking about.

[edreedfromtheu]

No no NO!

This is why you have to stop looking at statistics when analyzing a football team.

Yes, the Ravens are far from the worst defensive team.

The Ravens can shut down passing attacks from teams like the Browns, Broncos, Lions, Raiders, and Bears.

But what is the goal of every NFL team? To win the Super Bowl. How do you get to the Super Bowl? You win in the playoffs. What kind of teams do you play in the playoffs? Good teams, with the majority having good quarterbacks and receivers.

The NFL has formed and changed their rules to help out high scoring offenses, that pass the ball down the field. It's supposedly good for the fans.

The Ravens don't do well against teams like this. Tom Brady, until last year in the playoffs, has moved the ball down the field on the Ravens. And if he doesn't... the officials will try to find ways to help him. Carson Palmer and the Bengals do the same thing. They pick the Ravens defense apart and move it down the field throwing. Last year, the Ravens secondary had fallen off so badly that the Bengals passing attack forced the Ravens to fall back and opened up enough room for Cedric Benson to run all over the Ravens. Philip Rivers was having an easy time throwing down field with his huge receivers in Jackson and Gates but for some reason they didn't want to stick with the pass and ended up losing because they tried to run on the Ravens. And Peyton Manning... do I even have to explain that one?

The fact is, the Ravens need better corners. Even if they improve their pass rush, they need better corners. There is no excuse for Chris Carr being on an NFL roster, especially the Ravens. If he makes the final roster, I am going to be very angry.

[AZravensfan]

[quote name='edreedfromtheu' date='26 April 2010 - 01:58 PM' timestamp='1272315510' post='400532']
No no NO!

This is why you have to stop looking at statistics when analyzing a football team.

Yes, the Ravens are far from the worst defensive team.

The Ravens can shut down passing attacks from teams like the Browns, Broncos, Lions, Raiders, and Bears.

But what is the goal of every NFL team? To win the Super Bowl. How do you get to the Super Bowl? You win in the playoffs. What kind of teams do you play in the playoffs? Good teams, with the majority having good quarterbacks and receivers.

The NFL has formed and changed their rules to help out high scoring offenses, that pass the ball down the field. It's supposedly good for the fans.

The Ravens don't do well against teams like this. Tom Brady, until last year in the playoffs, has moved the ball down the field on the Ravens. And if he doesn't... the officials will try to find ways to help him. Carson Palmer and the Bengals do the same thing. They pick the Ravens defense apart and move it down the field throwing. Last year, the Ravens secondary had fallen off so badly that the Bengals passing attack forced the Ravens to fall back and opened up enough room for Cedric Benson to run all over the Ravens. Philip Rivers was having an easy time throwing down field with his huge receivers in Jackson and Gates but for some reason they didn't want to stick with the pass and ended up losing because they tried to run on the Ravens. And Peyton Manning... do I even have to explain that one?

The fact is, the Ravens need better corners. Even if they improve their pass rush, they need better corners. There is no excuse for Chris Carr being on an NFL roster, especially the Ravens. If he makes the final roster, I am going to be very angry.
[/quote]

All that said we still had a good team last year and made it even better this year. Our D played well in the playoffs. We do need our secondary to step up some and with a year more under the young guys belts I think they will. If we can get better corners before the year starts that would be amazing but probably not going to happen. Going to depend on our guys to get back from injury and for most of our guys to play a bit better. We held the Colts to 20 points and Manning to less than 300 yards passing in the playoff game, D wasn't the problem. Offense was, we arent going to score 3 points and beat playoff teams(like the colts).

Everyone wants to say our secondary was the only problem but honestly it wasn't. We have made significant improvement to every other aspect and all those upgrades should help the secondary out.

We will be better this year because of the offensive moves we have made so hopefully that will eliminate some of the close games we had that we lost. A better offense will help the D out a lot to.

Haha well I am pretty sure Carr is going to make the final roster so prepared to be angry . I am not a huge fan of his either but we didn't make enough secondary upgrades(if any at all) to think he is not making the team.

So I say lets keep a positive outlook on this upcoming season we have made a lot of upgrades and every phase of football helps every phase of football. A great pass rush will make our CBs look great so lets hope we can make it happen.

I to wish we woulda drafted a CB or two but Oz and Co know more than us about players so trust them and lets enjoy this season and postseason!

[Milton145]

I hope with an improved pass rush, Carr will finally shut everyone up. The guy is decent and also a bit undersized. He still held his own against guys like Clark and Ward. He was just playing in the wrong place because of his size

[Mick0311]

It was all about timing last year for me. Whenever we lost a close game, it was usually to a big play through the air, usually followed by a flag anyway in-case the guy didn't score. While statistically the pass d wasn't horrible, I think they had an overall pitiful year during key times.

[rastaman831226]

[quote name='MKdave' date='26 April 2010 - 04:56 PM' timestamp='1272315384' post='400530']
The problem is that for this team 8th is not acceptable in any defensive category, and late game meltdowns certainly aren't. That said I've always felt that any corner can look elite with a great pass rush and an elite corner looks bad behind a bad pass rush. To put it in perspective, the year before we had the best defensive passer rating in the league and gave up the second fewest passing yards and people still weren't satisfied. This is the Ravens D that we're talking about.
[/quote]


Surprised and disappointed MKdave. You're skirting the real issue here. If the Ravens want to compete with the elite teams in the NFL, and a realistic SB appearance, we'll need a big physical top tier corner.

[rastaman831226]

[quote name='edreedfromtheu' date='26 April 2010 - 04:58 PM' timestamp='1272315510' post='400532']
No no NO!

This is why you have to stop looking at statistics when analyzing a football team.

Yes, the Ravens are far from the worst defensive team.

The Ravens can shut down passing attacks from teams like the Browns, Broncos, Lions, Raiders, and Bears.

But what is the goal of every NFL team? To win the Super Bowl. How do you get to the Super Bowl? You win in the playoffs. What kind of teams do you play in the playoffs? Good teams, with the majority having good quarterbacks and receivers.

The NFL has formed and changed their rules to help out high scoring offenses, that pass the ball down the field. It's supposedly good for the fans.

The Ravens don't do well against teams like this. Tom Brady, until last year in the playoffs, has moved the ball down the field on the Ravens. And if he doesn't... the officials will try to find ways to help him. Carson Palmer and the Bengals do the same thing. They pick the Ravens defense apart and move it down the field throwing. Last year, the Ravens secondary had fallen off so badly that the Bengals passing attack forced the Ravens to fall back and opened up enough room for Cedric Benson to run all over the Ravens. Philip Rivers was having an easy time throwing down field with his huge receivers in Jackson and Gates but for some reason they didn't want to stick with the pass and ended up losing because they tried to run on the Ravens. And Peyton Manning... do I even have to explain that one?

The fact is, the Ravens need better corners. Even if they improve their pass rush, they need better corners. There is no excuse for Chris Carr being on an NFL roster, especially the Ravens. If he makes the final roster, I am going to be very angry.
[/quote]


Well said and to the point. Thank You.

[Ed_Reed20]

Everyone else has hit the nail on the head.

One element to look at is perception. Horrible performances from the D against teams like SD and Minnesota early in the season got people convinced the DBs couldn't cover anyone. Looking back, we remember Fabian, Dawan, Foxworth and even Ed getting beat badly. However, what not everyone noticed were QBs either standing around unhurried or stepping up into the pocket whenever Suggs, Pryce or someone else got around the edge.

Perception from the referees also hurt the Ravens. I won't say referees calling Ravens games were waiting to throw flags but after Walker, Foxworth, and Fabian drew costly and well-documented penalties, I'm sure the referees payed closer attention to Ravens DBs. We saw this taken to the extreme against the Packers. Frankly, I don't think many"shut-down" CBs like Revis got called for the grabbing and pulling I saw Foxworth and Co. flagged for last season. Hopefully, that changes this year.

[rastaman831226]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' date='26 April 2010 - 07:21 PM' timestamp='1272324113' post='400657']
Everyone else has hit the nail on the head.

One element to look at is perception. Horrible performances from the D against teams like SD and Minnesota early in the season got people convinced the DBs couldn't cover anyone. Looking back, we remember Fabian, Dawan, Foxworth and even Ed getting beat badly. However, what not everyone noticed were QBs either standing around unhurried or stepping up into the pocket whenever Suggs, Pryce or someone else got around the edge.

Perception from the referees also hurt the Ravens. I won't say referees calling Ravens games were waiting to throw flags but after Walker, Foxworth, and Fabian drew costly and well-documented penalties, I'm sure the referees payed closer attention to Ravens DBs. We saw this taken to the extreme against the Packers. Frankly, I don't think many"shut-down" CBs like Revis got called for the grabbing and pulling I saw Foxworth and Co. flagged for last season. Hopefully, that changes this year.
[/quote]


Perception is spelled Frank Walker.

[Whitty Hutton]

This year's secondary wasnt the worst the Ravens had, but they were the ones most likely to give up a big play or pi at the worst possible times that i can remember

[DocMartin]

[quote name='PuRock' date='26 April 2010 - 03:56 PM' timestamp='1272315363' post='400529']
Agreed . 1094 total yards in penalties (majority PI calls) and first in the league in penalty yards is not acceptable.

Sure the stats aren't too bad, but the problem is our secondary melted when it mattered the most, late in games. There's not stats for that.

I will agree that they did step up their game towards the end of the last season. But there is still a lot of growth that needs to be attained.
[/quote]
Those stats are looking decent, considering the start of the season. And yes, PI calls killed us in most of the games we lost.
Also, even when our secondary had decent day in passing yards stats, they still allowed some cruical TD scores, in both Bengals games. So, what good is it if you limit opponent's offensive yardage, if you don't stop them from scoring.
And finally, a lot of teams got better this offseason, while our secondary staying the same, so don't be surprised if "the stats" don't improve.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='rastaman831226' date='26 April 2010 - 09:20 PM' timestamp='1272331251' post='400755']
Perception is spelled Frank Walker.
[/quote]

Agreed. I'm too lazy to do the research but I'm sure Frank was amongst the leaders in penalties drawn.

Then the play-offs came and he turned into the 2006 Chris McAlister.

[flynismo]

[quote name='rastaman831226' date='26 April 2010 - 07:12 PM' timestamp='1272323568' post='400647']
Surprised and disappointed MKdave. You're skirting the real issue here. If the Ravens want to compete with the elite teams in the NFL, and a realistic SB appearance, we'll need a big physical top tier corner.
[/quote]

Sorry, but the only thing that has kept us out of the SB the past two years is the piss poor play of our recievers.

[sporaven]

Chris Carr played really well after Webb went down. He ahd Dom were terrible at the beginning of the year, but maybe they are just slow learners because they really stepped up as the season progressed. As long as our medical staff thinks Fab and Webb will be ready by the start of the season, I have no problem with us not adding a CB in the draft.

[flynismo]

A lot of us have been saying this since week 2 last year. No one had anything to complain about in the second half, or in the playoffs.
This defense only had 3 games the entire season that I would consider to be a poor showing. Which is probably the same as our 2000 team. And our 2000 team didnt face a HOF or Pro Bowl quarterback every other week.

Get over it people.

And as for the late game meltdowns; that's nothing new. That's been the trend the last few years.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='flynismo' date='26 April 2010 - 09:46 PM' timestamp='1272332760' post='400773']
This defense only had 3 games the entire season that I would consider to be a poor showing. Which is probably the same as our 2000 team. And our 2000 team didnt face a HOF or Pro Bowl quarterback every other week.
[/quote]

Didn't Mark Brunell and Jimmy Smith destroy the secondary in 2000?

[DocMartin]

[quote name='flynismo' date='26 April 2010 - 08:38 PM' timestamp='1272332317' post='400768']
Sorry, but the only thing that has kept us out of the SB the past two years is the piss poor play of our recievers.
[/quote]
I agree on that, but we got to beat the Colts, and with the secondary we have now, I'm not so sure. Last 3 times we played the Colts, we got picked apart, like everybody else, by Payton, so unless, maybe the Chargers will beat the Colts for us, and we get lucky.

[DocMartin]

[quote name='flynismo' date='26 April 2010 - 08:46 PM' timestamp='1272332760' post='400773']
A lot of us have been saying this since week 2 last year. No one had anything to complain about in the second half, or in the playoffs.
This defense only had 3 games the entire season that I would consider to be a poor showing. Which is probably the same as our 2000 team. And our 2000 team didnt face a HOF or Pro Bowl quarterback every other week.

Get over it people.

And as for the late game meltdowns; that's nothing new. That's been the trend the last few years.
[/quote]
Come on, that's no comparison between the defense in 2000 and 2010. These players might get close - maybe one day - but the NFL itself has a part in it. Back in 2000 you could almost "closeline" the WR and it was ok. No PI calls, no "horsecollar" rules and etc. Nowdays, you even touch WR running by, refs throwing the flag - it's ridiculous !!!

[TheRavenouseD2008]

actualy heard on nfl network that they MAY be reviewing the PI system making it a less easy to call rule and possibly being reviewable.

[Ngata92NT]

[quote name='DocMartin' date='26 April 2010 - 08:51 PM' timestamp='1272333082' post='400780']
I agree on that, but we got to beat the Colts, and with the secondary we have now, I'm not so sure. Last 3 times we played the Colts, we got picked apart, like everybody else, by Payton, so unless, maybe the Chargers will beat the Colts for us, and we get lucky.

[/quote]

Our secondary actually performed rather well against Peyton this season, especially in the first game. Both times we forced him to throw multiple picks and played tight D in the end zone. The Colts D, supposedly their weak point, somehow dominates us every time in both the run and pass game.

[AZravensfan]

[quote name='DocMartin' date='26 April 2010 - 06:51 PM' timestamp='1272333082' post='400780']
I agree on that, but we got to beat the Colts, and with the secondary we have now, I'm not so sure. Last 3 times we played the Colts, we got picked apart, like everybody else, by Payton, so unless, maybe the Chargers will beat the Colts for us, and we get lucky.

[/quote]

Again, our D was not the problem against the Colts. We held Peyton to 20 points(which is like 10 points less than "the best D in the league" did last year) and he had less than 250 yards passing,which is a pretty low total for him. Our secondary also made a play to turn it around, I believe the Reed interception was the 3rd quarter? Garcon just made a hell of an effort play to get it back. Rag on the secondary during the year all you want but when it came playoff time our D was there and represented how we play football in Baltimore. We will be a better team this year and it will show.

If you tell me right now that we play the Colts in the chapionship game and they only score 20 then I will say Hell yea let them have 20 and hope our offense can produce and help the D out. We should be able to count on our O to put up at least 20 points a game, especially with the way they are calling penalties for WR's. Just recently our WR output has been crap, obviusly will be better this year (barring any major injuries).

I really don't care what goes on in the regular season just as long as we make the playoffs and play good there.

[AZravensfan]

[quote name='Ngata92NT' date='26 April 2010 - 07:37 PM' timestamp='1272335833' post='400816']
Our secondary actually performed rather well against Peyton this season, especially in the first game. Both times we forced him to throw multiple picks and played tight D in the end zone. The Colts D, supposedly their weak point, somehow dominates us every time in both the run and pass game.
[/quote]

Very good point we played good D in both meetings! I think the reason there D dominates us is because they are fast/agressive and we run all the time. If you have no passing threat, because the WR's couldnt get open, then they will just stack the box and play run the whole time.

So the D while it could have been better during the regular season, played extremely hard and well in the playoffs(when it counts). The O needed the major overhaul this year and that is exactly what the FO gave us, great job OZ!

[ml63440]

People need to realize that the league has turned into a pass happy league. High scores sell tickets, and help ratings. quarterbacks are better, but definitely protected more, and favored. Corner is by far the hardest position to play, you are on an island in all sense of the phrase. You are generally by you're self, one on one with a receiver who is usually taller than you, and he knows what he is going to do, you don't. You are going to get beat, and you are going to make plays. It goes hand in hand, that is why you have to have a short memory. Anyway, with all of these new rules for quarterbacks, and receivers it has been made impossible to play the position successfully. Namdi and Revis are the only two shut down corners in the league, and they don't come along very often. Think about it, 32 teams, each with 4-5 corners, so out of like 160 cbs that are active during the season, there are only 2 who are at this level. And even they get beat if they get thrown at enough. Namdi gets paid the average of the top 5 qb salaries in the league. So not only are they rare, they are ridiculously expensive.
I think Fox really stepped it up during the second half of the season. It was his first season in baltimore, so he didn't know the system. Plus we had a new DC. not bringing as much pressure, and doing things differently then we are used to seeing. As long as Foxworth keeps playing at the level he has been i am confident that we will be fine on D.