Clayton Vs. Stallworth

[Ed_Reed20]

I see Stallworth catching more passes than Clayton mainly because he's better at picking up YACs which will lead to more looks from Flacco.

Even if Clayton does win the #3 job, playing in the slot requires a physicality I haven't seen from Clayton.

[Milton145]

I don't see anyone having HUGE numbers this year even if Flacco drastically improves. We will still be a run-first team and having all these weapons doesn't necessarily mean we'll have the flashy numbers in total yards, receptions, and things along those lines.

[The Flock]

Stallworth, but not by that much. They will booth be productive.

[Romo Ravens]

[quote name='Milton145' date='06 April 2010 - 07:02 PM' timestamp='1270609346' post='387670']
I don't see anyone having HUGE numbers this year even if Flacco drastically improves. We will still be a run-first team and having all these weapons doesn't necessarily mean we'll have the flashy numbers in total yards, receptions, and things along those lines.
[/quote]

Please don't tell me you're including Boldin in that. If anyone will put up 1,000 yards with 10+ TDs, it's going to be him. Maybe even more. Running the ball 30 or more times is outdated, and I don't care who gets upset when I say that. It's true. That doesn't mean Ray won't put up numbers like last year on the ground, but he will not be the focal point of our offense. Come September, the fireworks will start, and we will finally have a balanced offense with running and throwing the football. I sure hope that at the end of the season that Flacco will have those flashy numbers.

[Romo Ravens]

[quote name='Shammy' date='06 April 2010 - 03:14 PM' timestamp='1270595647' post='387497']
i think they both bout to make plays ... both guys got got chip on they're shoulders i think stallworth could start
[/quote]

Yes!

[Mahatma_Sloth]

no ones beat out clayton for that spot under mason yet and if you look at the numbers stallworth and clayton are pretty comparable. clayton knows the QB, coaches, and system better, but in all reality that dosent mean much. what im really hoping is to see is alot of gun w/ 4wr sets. Flacco looks more natural operating out of the gun, and with both of our tackles id say our line can handle even blitzes long enough to attack the holes with a quick slant to stallworth or clayton. I think it will be a great battle in camp ending in a stalemate and the two will just have a rotation like our d line as far as numbers for the wrs; Cam showed early last year that he wanted Joe to pass it but we just didnt have the talent to. I think he gets what he wants this year

Boldin 110-120 rec / 1050-1300 yrds / 10-15 td
Mason 80-100 rec / 800-1075 yrds / 7-10 td
Clayton 40-60 rec / 300-600 yrds / 3-5 td
Stallworth 40-60 rec / 300-600 yrds / 3-5 td
Heap 40-60 rec / 400-750 yrds / 6-8 td (alot of blocking again/insurance routs when needed)
Rice 40-50 rec / 450-600 yrds / 2-5 td (less check downs, more screens)

Flacco, more aware and accurate from offseason work comes in and spreads it around. Better thrown balls to WRs with better hands turns alot of those 184 incompletions into catches/yards/TDs

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Mahatma_Sloth' date='07 April 2010 - 11:12 AM' timestamp='1270653168' post='387799']
no ones beat out clayton for that spot under mason yet and if you look at the numbers stallworth and clayton are pretty comparable. clayton knows the QB, coaches, and system better, but in all reality that dosent mean much. what im really hoping is to see is alot of gun w/ 4wr sets. Flacco looks more natural operating out of the gun, and with both of our tackles id say our line can handle even blitzes long enough to attack the holes with a quick slant to stallworth or clayton. I think it will be a great battle in camp ending in a stalemate and the two will just have a rotation like our d line as far as numbers for the wrs; Cam showed early last year that he wanted Joe to pass it but we just didnt have the talent to. I think he gets what he wants this year

Boldin 110-120 rec / 1050-1300 yrds / 10-15 td
Mason 80-100 rec / 800-1075 yrds / 7-10 td
Clayton 40-60 rec / 300-600 yrds / 3-5 td
Stallworth 40-60 rec / 300-600 yrds / 3-5 td
Heap 40-60 rec / 400-750 yrds / 6-8 td (alot of blocking again/insurance routs when needed)
Rice 40-50 rec / 450-600 yrds / 2-5 td (less check downs, more screens)

Flacco, more aware and accurate from offseason work comes in and spreads it around. Better thrown balls to WRs with better hands turns alot of those 184 incompletions into catches/yards/TDs
[/quote]

I'm very optimistic about the potential the offense has but those statistics don't seem very likely.

Clayton, Stallworth, Heap and Rice combining for that many catches and yards is especially hard to believe.

As for the 4-WR sets though, Cam could start running them more with the increase in talent and I hope he does but I'm not convinced he will.

Again, I'm anticipating a marked improvement from the offense but not to record-breaking levels.

[Mahatma_Sloth]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' date='07 April 2010 - 09:34 AM' timestamp='1270654444' post='387807']
I'm very optimistic about the potential the offense has but those statistics don't seem very likely.

Clayton, Stallworth, Heap and Rice combining for that many catches and yards is especially hard to believe.

As for the 4-WR sets though, Cam could start running them more with the increase in talent and I hope he does but I'm not convinced he will.

Again, I'm anticipating a marked improvement from the offense but not to record-breaking levels.
[/quote]
those numbers are including the post season and superbowl

i think(hope) Flacco will break 4k this year and between 27 and 30 td

a boy can dream, cant he?

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Mahatma_Sloth' date='07 April 2010 - 11:38 AM' timestamp='1270654682' post='387809']
those numbers are including the post season and superbowl

i think(hope) Flacco will break 4k this year and between 27 and 30 td

a boy can dream, cant he?
[/quote]

I think Flacco will break 4000 yards and approach 30 TDs too.

[DanishRaven]

I think Stallworth will have the most productive season. Definately in TD's, Clayton has 12 rec td's in his 5 years, where Stallworth is at 32 rec td's in his 7 years.
Stallworth has with his 296 carrer rec, produce allmost twice as many yards as Clayton, who has about 100 rec less, but still.
The big question is what shape he returns in, which i think is nothing but perfect, in this years where he has'nt played he has been working out 5 times a week for 3-4 hours.
To me that says, this man what to come back and show what he is made of - and we are lucky that it is with ravens he is going to show this.

Stallworth will outscore, outyard, outrecieve Clayton - No doubt about it.


If you find the english a bit rusty, well that's because im danish - not pastery.

[DrMoonTooth]

You have to give the edge to Stallworth. This guy has SOOOOOO much to play for...and as for Clayton...hah. He hasn't quite turned out to be 1st round draft pick status, has he? Look for Donte to be playing with a major chip on his shoulder.

[Mahatma_Sloth]

[quote name='DrMoonTooth' date='07 April 2010 - 11:31 AM' timestamp='1270661487' post='387850']
You have to give the edge to Stallworth. This guy has SOOOOOO much to play for...and as for Clayton...hah. He hasn't quite turned out to be 1st round draft pick status, has he? Look for Donte to be playing with a major chip on his shoulder.
[/quote]
hahaha... and Clayton has nothing to play for? Did Stallworth play up to your first round pick standards(13th overall)in his 7 years? Get over the first round thing that was 5 years ago you have to accept the man for what he is today, wich is not a busted first round pick, but important depth at our WR position

[PuRock]

[quote name='Mahatma_Sloth' date='09 April 2010 - 10:09 AM' timestamp='1270822186' post='388772']
hahaha... and Clayton has nothing to play for? Did Stallworth play up to your first round pick standards(13th overall)in his 7 years? Get over the first round thing that was 5 years ago you have to accept the man for what he is today, wich is not a busted first round pick, but important depth at our WR position
[/quote]

I do find it funny how people say Stallworth has a lot more to play for than Clayton?. Isn't an influx of talent and the possibility of losing your job enough to have something to play for?

Clayton is a smart guy, he's not just going to let someone come in and take his job because he has nothing to play for. I fully expect Clayton to compete, a little healthy competition from time to time has never hurt anybody.

[flynismo]

[quote name='Mahatma_Sloth' date='09 April 2010 - 10:09 AM' timestamp='1270822186' post='388772']
hahaha... and Clayton has nothing to play for? Did Stallworth play up to your first round pick standards(13th overall)in his 7 years? Get over the first round thing that was 5 years ago you have to accept the man for what he is today, wich is not a busted first round pick, but important depth at our WR position
[/quote]


lol, Stallworth has been a sleeper pick in our FF league for like 6 years running...at some point, well, ya know....

Stallworth certainly hasn't lived up to his draft status, like his counterpart Clayton, but they are nearly identical recievers, the only difference being that Stallworth is bigger, faster, more experienced, better route running. I think Stallworth will be a better fit for us, but now that Clayton will be lining up against nickels and dimes, I don't want him to be under-utilized either. This could turn out to be a poductive year for him if all goes well.

[Twoo]

Clayton is one of the biggest busts in Ravens franchise history.

Stallworth > Clayton

/thread

[DrMoonTooth]

[quote name='Mahatma_Sloth' date='09 April 2010 - 09:09 AM' timestamp='1270822186' post='388772']
hahaha... and Clayton has nothing to play for? Did Stallworth play up to your first round pick standards(13th overall)in his 7 years? Get over the first round thing that was 5 years ago you have to accept the man for what he is today, wich is not a busted first round pick, but important depth at our WR position
[/quote]

Did I say Stallworth lived up to his expectations?! No, so you can dismiss that immediately. I can't believe you would say Clayton isn't a busted 1st rounder. The only reason you say that is because he is still with us...and would you like to know why? Because that is just how bad our receivers have been over the last several years. Now we have Stallworth and Boldin, with Mason being re-signed. You know where that is going to leave Clayton...? At 4th on the depth chart, where he should always have been...for DEPTH, where YOU said his importance was. Depth isn't worth a first round pick, starting status is, which is something Clayton will FINALLY be deprived of.

[flynismo]

[quote name='DrMoonTooth' date='09 April 2010 - 01:17 PM' timestamp='1270833473' post='388898']
Did I say Stallworth lived up to his expectations?! No, so you can dismiss that immediately. I can't believe you would say Clayton isn't a busted 1st rounder. The only reason you say that is because he is still with us...and would you like to know why? Because that is just how bad our receivers have been over the last several years. Now we have Stallworth and Boldin, with Mason being re-signed. You know where that is going to leave Clayton...? At 4th on the depth chart, where he should always have been...for DEPTH, where YOU said his importance was. Depth isn't worth a first round pick, starting status is, which is something Clayton will FINALLY be deprived of.
[/quote]

I've learned that it is best to not argue with the Clayton lovers...just nod your head and smile when they say he isn't a huge bust of a first rounder. Will save ya a lot of typing and headaches (from banging your head on the keyboard).

[DrMoonTooth]

[quote name='flynismo' date='09 April 2010 - 12:33 PM' timestamp='1270834383' post='388909']
I've learned that it is best to not argue with the Clayton lovers...just nod your head and smile when they say he isn't a huge bust of a first rounder. Will save ya a lot of typing and headaches (from banging your head on the keyboard).
[/quote]

Haha, yeah it's probably for the best. It's just odd to me I guess. I mean, Ozzie said he would upgrade our group of receivers...so how would bringing in a guy that would sit behind Clayton be any kind of upgrade? I think that proves that Ozzie is on our side. /ends thread

[beasy2487]

[quote name='Twoo' date='09 April 2010 - 12:01 PM' timestamp='1270828876' post='388837']
Clayton is one of the biggest busts in Ravens franchise history.

Stallworth > Clayton

/thread
[/quote]

Stallworth has played on better passing offenses than Clayton his entire career.

Clayton is a disappointment, not a bust. He STARTS for our team meaning NO ONE we've brought in has been able to take the spot from him. Could he be better? Yes. But he's not terrible.

Mark Clayton has been a contributor here for a while now, time to stop ripping on him because our personnel department overestimated the ceiling for his play.

On topic, I think Stallworth has a bigger year based on shear volume of play considering he'll be on the field more than Clayton assuming he wins the spot. Also, Flacco is going to want to get him the ball whereas that added intensity isn't there with Clayton simply due to familiarity. Flacco knows what Clayton can and can't do, he's going to want to test Stallworth.

So great that we get to talk about how WELL are receivers are going to perform instead how we're going to survive without them.

[DrMoonTooth]

[quote name='beasy2487' date='09 April 2010 - 02:26 PM' timestamp='1270841207' post='389019']
Stallworth has played on better passing offenses than Clayton his entire career.

Clayton is a disappointment, not a bust. [b]He STARTS for our team meaning NO ONE we've brought in has been able to take the spot from him.[/b] Could he be better? Yes. But he's not terrible.

Mark Clayton has been a contributor here for a while now, time to stop ripping on him because our personnel department overestimated the ceiling for his play.

On topic, I think Stallworth has a bigger year based on shear volume of play considering he'll be on the field more than Clayton assuming he wins the spot. Also, Flacco is going to want to get him the ball whereas that added intensity isn't there with Clayton simply due to familiarity. Flacco knows what Clayton can and can't do, he's going to want to test Stallworth.

So great that we get to talk about how WELL are receivers are going to perform instead how we're going to survive without them.
[/quote]

I agree completely, except for I would be persuaded to say that Clayton is somewhat of a bust, but that's more my disappointment in him than him truly being a "bust" receiver. I must ask though...who have we brought in the last few years good enough to take away his starter status? You say no one has been able to take away the spot, but wouldn't you say that is more a result of not having any one to compete with aside from Derrick Mason?

[Milton145]

Demetrius Williams was there for competition, he was healthy the whole season wasn't he?

[flynismo]

[quote name='Milton145' date='09 April 2010 - 09:30 PM' timestamp='1270863001' post='389138']
Demetrius Williams was there for competition, he was healthy the whole season wasn't he?
[/quote]


When has D-Will EVER been healthy?
Even if he were, that's not much of an argument in Clayton's favor, since choosing one to start over the other is akin to picking the lesser of two evils. Just the fact that a 35 year old, 5'10" possession reciever is ahead on the depth chart over either of those two says quite enough about the quality of our wide recievers over the years.
Then, when we finally get a guy who was a legitimate threat to get within sniffing distance of earning a starting job (Kelley W.) and was out-producing Clayton, we keep him on the bench.

[DrMoonTooth]

[quote name='Milton145' date='09 April 2010 - 08:30 PM' timestamp='1270863001' post='389138']
Demetrius Williams was there for competition, he was healthy the whole season wasn't he?
[/quote]

Depends on the year in question. He only played in all 16 games once (his rookie year), so that in itself speaks volumes about his health. Also, the maximum amount of passes he has caught in a season was also his rookie year (22). So...yes, Williams was there for competition, but WAS HE competition? Not really.

What I was saying is not that there wasn't any one there to compete with him, but there simply wasn't any one who COULD compete with him, which just points out how pitiful our overall talent at the position was =/.

[DrMoonTooth]

[quote name='flynismo' date='09 April 2010 - 11:04 PM' timestamp='1270872278' post='389163']
When has D-Will EVER been healthy?
Even if he were, that's not much of an argument in Clayton's favor, since choosing one to start over the other is akin to picking the lesser of two evils. Just the fact that a 35 year old, 5'10" possession reciever is ahead on the depth chart over either of those two says quite enough about the quality of our wide recievers over the years.
Then, when we finally get a guy who was a legitimate threat to get within sniffing distance of earning a starting job (Kelley W.) and was out-producing Clayton, we keep him on the bench.
[/quote]

haha...I got ninjad...sort of.

[Mahatma_Sloth]

[quote name='DrMoonTooth' date='09 April 2010 - 11:17 AM' timestamp='1270833473' post='388898']
Did I say Stallworth lived up to his expectations?! No, so you can dismiss that immediately. I can't believe you would say Clayton isn't a busted 1st rounder. The only reason you say that is because he is still with us...and would you like to know why? Because that is just how bad our receivers have been over the last several years. Now we have Stallworth and Boldin, with Mason being re-signed. You know where that is going to leave Clayton...? At 4th on the depth chart, where he should always have been...for DEPTH, where YOU said his importance was. Depth isn't worth a first round pick, starting status is, which is something Clayton will FINALLY be deprived of.
[/quote]
First off i didnt say he was a success. What i said, if you would of read it instead of angrily mashing your keyboard, was that [b]YOU[/b] should [b]GET OVER IT[/b] and [b]ACCEPT THE MAN FOR WHAT HE IS TODAY[/b]. I, contrary to whatever you read me saying, agree that in hindsight he is not a first rounder neither is Stallworth, but i also say he still has value on this team because he adds huge depth. Having Stallworth just leaves Clayton in a comp with him in camp, which i see ending in a stalemate and ultimately leading to a rotation of the two. And, yes, you are right I am a homer and give any player on the team the benefit of the doubt.

[Mahatma_Sloth]

[quote name='flynismo' date='09 April 2010 - 09:02 AM' timestamp='1270825337' post='388795']
lol, Stallworth has been a sleeper pick in our FF league for like 6 years running...at some point, well, ya know....

Stallworth certainly hasn't lived up to his draft status, like his counterpart Clayton, but they are nearly identical recievers, the only difference being that Stallworth is bigger, faster, more experienced, better route running. I think Stallworth will be a better fit for us, but now that Clayton will be lining up against nickels and dimes, I don't want him to be under-utilized either. This could turn out to be a poductive year for him if all goes well.
[/quote]
FLY is that you?

[quote name='flynismo' date='09 April 2010 - 11:33 AM' timestamp='1270834383' post='388909']
I've learned that it is best to not argue with the Clayton lovers...just nod your head and smile when they say he isn't a huge bust of a first rounder. Will save ya a lot of typing and headaches (from banging your head on the keyboard).
[/quote]
hey man if you read my posts this offseason you would see i changed my tune. Its just to me in the middle of the season you got 2 options: &!#ch about it and get your panties in a bunch when nothing is gonna happen, or accept your team for what it is, because nothing is gonna happen, and cheer em on as best as you can. is someone writing a book of homerisms? cuz that belongs in the first chapter

[Mahatma_Sloth]

[quote name='flynismo' date='09 April 2010 - 10:04 PM' timestamp='1270872278' post='389163']
When has D-Will EVER been healthy?
Even if he were, that's not much of an argument in Clayton's favor, since choosing one to start over the other is akin to picking the lesser of two evils. Just the fact that a 35 year old, 5'10" possession reciever is ahead on the depth chart over either of those two says quite enough about the quality of our wide recievers over the years.
Then, when we finally get a guy who was a legitimate threat to get within sniffing distance of earning a starting job (Kelley W.) and was out-producing Clayton, we keep him on the bench.
[/quote]
if they thought K.Wash was better they would of played him as the 2.... they knew they had to put him against inferior DBs. Cant wait to see Clayton and Stallworth against the same caliber DB

[SaVaGe]

Clayton completely confuses me. When he is on his A game he puts up 125 yard performances and is amazing, makes great catches shows good route running. Then the very next week he doesn't do anything right, this kid has so much wasted potential.

lucky 777

[DrMoonTooth]

[quote name='Mahatma_Sloth' date='10 April 2010 - 10:19 AM' timestamp='1270912780' post='389220']
First off i didnt say he was a success. What i said, if you would of read it instead of angrily mashing your keyboard, was that [b]YOU[/b] should [b]GET OVER IT[/b] and [b]ACCEPT THE MAN FOR WHAT HE IS TODAY[/b]. I, contrary to whatever you read me saying, agree that in hindsight he is not a first rounder neither is Stallworth, but i also say he still has value on this team because he adds huge depth. Having Stallworth just leaves Clayton in a comp with him in camp, which i see ending in a stalemate and ultimately leading to a rotation of the two. And, yes, you are right I am a homer and give any player on the team the benefit of the doubt.
[/quote]

First of all, I'm not angrily mashing anything, but according to the t.o.s., you are by capitalizing your speech...just saying...

ot: Being 'Homer' doesn't win Superbowl Rings. This game is about proving your worth, and Clayton hasn't proven much of anything, except that he is a major blemish on Ozzie Newsome's wonderful draft history. Ozzie brought in Stallworth for one reason: to make this football team better and win another Superbowl title. Ozzie obviously has all the confidence that this guy can be our gritty 3rd receiver in the slot or on the outside going deep...a perfect compliment to Mason and Boldin. I'll admit , I probably wouldn't mind if they did rotate, but only if Clayton could hold his own and not cost us the game like he did in Foxboro (and yes, I know he helped lead us to victory in Kansas City)...but Stallworth is bigger, tougher, more athletic, and currently has a huge heart that (in my opinion) has a lot more to prove than Clayton. Clayton has had 5 years to prove his worth to Baltimore, and as you said, his has proven himself as good depth, but that's honestly it. Stallworth gets 1 year to prove himself. He said himself that he wanted more than anything to sign with the Ravens, and we graciously gave him another shot at a priveleged lifestyle. I think he takes his one chance and runs with it (seriously...no pun intended).

[DrMoonTooth]

[quote name='SaVaGe' date='10 April 2010 - 12:56 PM' timestamp='1270922201' post='389264']
Clayton completely confuses me. When he is on his A game he puts up 125 yard performances and is amazing, makes great catches shows good route running. Then the very next week he doesn't do anything right, this kid has so much wasted potential.

lucky 777
[/quote]

My thoughts exactly. Hopefully Stallworth will bring some more consistency to the table, although Clayton and Stallworth may both be a little more consistent facing #3 corners. We can only hope.