4-3 V.s. 3-4

[XxSizzleXx]

Suggs is one of the best run stopping linebackers in the NFL and he is going to continue to do that, but if he comes back around his normal 260 weight like he supposedly is he should be back around 8-10 sacks, while continuing to be one of the best run stoppers in the league.

We've probably all seen this video but take a look at the strengh Suggs has, this is why he needs to be back in his 260 form with more speed. Looks like he pushes that Tackle back without a problem.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VS-90x1op4s

[rastaman831226]

[quote name='Dubs' date='10 April 2010 - 04:30 PM' timestamp='1270931438' post='389295']
Just thought id post this as its on ethe initial topic

[url="http://www.baltimorebeatdown.com/2010/4/9/1412079/football-101-the-ravens-hybrid"]Ravens Hybrid Defense Breakdown[/url]

not too shabby of a read, has some interesting historical insight
[/quote]

Nice pull Dubs. Even gets more interesting when you Google 46 defense. Can't post the link from this computer but if you would, do so, it would be greatly appreciated.

[Shammy]

[quote name='luckie618' date='10 April 2010 - 11:09 PM' timestamp='1270955368' post='389410']
The Raven should play what the defensive coordinator is. I still like Rex way. Whatever It takes to win, I dont care if it is a 4-3, 3-4 and as long they are the on top the the NFL at the end of the season. Plus I want to see more hiden bitlz from them to but that rex way.
[/quote]

basically

[rastaman831226]

[quote name='rastaman831226' date='09 April 2010 - 11:52 AM' timestamp='1270828360' post='388832']
No, I would not like you to double check Berad's findings, they're wrongheaded and misleading. However, I would like you to address the question of whether the 2009 TEAM was healthier than the 2008 TEAM.
[/quote]


Still waiting Franchise. Since you have not responded, I'll have to assume the obvious, by virtue of the IR list for the perspective 2008 and 2009 Ravens seasons it's clear the 2009 team was far healthier and outperformed by the injury riddled 2008 team.

[Guest maryland1]

rastaman831226,

This is getting real old real fast. I think the horse has been beaten to the point of being dog food now. Let's please move on and concentrate on the 2010 team.

[rastaman831226]

[quote name='-Truth-' date='08 April 2010 - 09:44 PM' timestamp='1270777451' post='388637']
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Baltimore_Ravens_season

Final Roster.
[/quote]



Correct 13 players IR'ed.

[flynismo]

[quote name='rastaman831226' date='11 April 2010 - 01:26 PM' timestamp='1271006776' post='389503']
Still waiting Franchise. Since you have not responded, I'll have to assume the obvious, by virtue of the IR list for the perspective 2008 and 2009 Ravens seasons it's clear the 2009 team was far healthier and outperformed by the injury riddled 2008 team.
[/quote]


I'm wondering if you're ever going to acknowledge the fact that we were the #3 ranked defense last year, which flies in the face of everything you claim about Mattison.
There were also years when Ryan's defense never ranked that high as well.

Until you address that little issue, anything you have to say is going to simply fall on deaf ears.

[BritishRaven]

[quote name='XxSizzleXx' date='11 April 2010 - 07:12 AM' timestamp='1270969975' post='389447']
We've probably all seen this video but take a look at the strengh Suggs has, this is why he needs to be back in his 260 form with more speed. Looks like he pushes that Tackle back without a problem.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VS-90x1op4s
[/quote]

I think that's actually Dallas Clark he's pushing back. But I [i]am[/i] excited to see how Suggs plays in training camp and beyond when he's had a whole offseason of conditioning. In my opinion, he's the lynchpin of our defense and we all know he allows the defense to seamlessly switch from a 4-3 to a 3-4.

[rastaman831226]

[quote name='theFRANCHISE' date='08 April 2010 - 11:44 PM' timestamp='1270784666' post='388689']
Also, for a unit going through a transitionary period as every unit does between coordinators, Mattison did pretty well for his first year. This was a team that played against 6 eventual playoff teams in the regular season (Bengals twice, so 7 games), and the defense faced 6 different offenses that finished in the top 10 of the league (Steelers twice, so 7 games).

Again, everyone forgets so quickly that Rex Ryan struggled in [i]his[/i] first year as defensive coordinator in 2005, allowing 299 points scored. Interestingly, in the Ravens' 14 seasons of play, Mattison's unit allowed the 4th-fewest points in franchise history with 261 points, which is only 17 more than Rex Ryan's unit allowed in 2008. The average points scored per game in 2009 was 21.5; Mattison's defense allowed 16.3 points per game, which was fewer than the average. Far from atrocious.

But, it [i]does[/i] help that the defense also finished 3rd in the league in 2009 in both fewest yards [i]and[/i] fewest points allowed. Not too shabby for a guy in his first year; Rex Ryan, conversely, finished 10th in fewest points allowed and 5th in fewest yards allowed in his first season as Ravens coordinator.
[/quote]

With the window of opportunity rapidly closing ( it could well be Ray's and Reed's last year in Ravens uniform ) for a genuine SB bid, the Ravens can ill afford a another defensive underperformance during a transitory phase. Despite the addition of Boldin and Stallsworth on offense, until Joe Flacco can prove he's an elite QB strong enough to lead this team, it will be up to the defense to carry the load by keeping opposing offenses off the field, getting our offense great field position, scoring and being the big difference maker in close games against elite opponents. However, based on last season's early miscalculations, inability to score or adjust schemes game to game to suit opponents by Ravens DC Gregg Mattison, this is unlikely to happen. That is...unlikely to happen unless Mattison gets a great deal of assistance in his weakest area of expertise- blitzing. Hopefully, that help will come from the recently signed ex N.E. Patriots DC, Dan Pees. As to Rex Ryan's history, it should be pointed out the Rex and former Ravens assistant Rick Pettine just took the 2008 #16 ranked Jets defense to 2009's #1 with personnel wholely unfamiliar with his complicated system- now that's what I call a great transitory period.

[rastaman831226]

[quote name='maryland1' date='11 April 2010 - 01:30 PM' timestamp='1271007045' post='389508']
rastaman831226,

This is getting real old real fast. I think the horse has been beaten to the point of being dog food now. Let's please move on and concentrate on the 2010 team.
[/quote]


Subject matter may not be to your liking. Nonetheless, it is a real world look at the pros and cons of Ravens football. Don't you agree?

[Guest maryland1]

[quote name='rastaman831226' date='11 April 2010 - 01:54 PM' timestamp='1271012088' post='389531']
Subject matter may not be to your liking. Nonetheless, it is a real world look at the pros and cons of Ravens football. Don't you agree?
[/quote]


It's not the subject matter. It's how your conducting yourself on the matter, which other members have also pointed out, and for which you were warned.

[rastaman831226]

[quote name='maryland1' date='11 April 2010 - 02:58 PM' timestamp='1271012301' post='389534']
It's not the subject matter. It's how your conducting yourself on the matter, which other members have pointed out as well, and resulted in a warning being issued.
[/quote]


Sorry, Maryland, just puttin' it out there without violating any rules of the board. I, on the other hand am receiving personal attacks from other posters. Mind you, I have stuck with the subject at hand and all under the umbrella of Ravens football.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='rastaman831226' date='11 April 2010 - 02:47 PM' timestamp='1271011660' post='389530']
With the window of opportunity rapidly closing ( it could well be Ray's and Reed's last year in Ravens uniform ) for a genuine SB bid, [b]the Ravens can ill afford a another defensive underperformance during a transitory phase.[/b] Despite the addition of Boldin and Stallsworth on offense, until Joe Flacco can prove he's an elite QB strong enough to lead this team, it will be up to the defense to carry the load by keeping opposing offenses off the field, getting our offense great field position, scoring and being the big difference maker in close games against elite opponents. However, based on last season's early miscalculations, inability to score or adjust schemes game to game to suit opponents by Ravens DC Gregg Mattison, this is unlikely to happen. That is...unlikely to happen unless Mattison gets a great deal of assistance in his weakest area of expertise- blitzing. Hopefully, that help will come from the recently signed ex N.E. Patriots DC, Dan Pees. [b]As to Rex Ryan's history, it should be pointed out the Rex and former Ravens assistant Rick Pettine just took the 2008 #16 ranked Jets defense to 2009's #1 with personnel wholely unfamiliar with his complicated system- now that's what I call a great transitory period.[/b]
[/quote]

Like I've said amost a dozen times, while the D had some poor performances, in the most important game of the season, they kept the score within reach only for the offense to do next to nothing.

As for Rex, three of the starters on his D were already familiar with his schemes. And most of those who weren't familiar were already good players to begin with. We can talk about schemes and other coaching points but its the players that play the game and the good ones do it well, regardless of who is coaching. Plus, having one of the best defensive players in the league at CB certainly helped make Rex look good.

[rastaman831226]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' date='11 April 2010 - 03:10 PM' timestamp='1271013006' post='389537']
Like I've said amost a dozen times, while the D had some poor performances, in the most important game of the season, they kept the score within reach only for the offense to do next to nothing.

As for Rex, three of the starters on his D were already familiar with his schemes. And most of those who weren't familiar were already good players to begin with. We can talk about schemes and other coaching points but its the players that play the game and the good ones do it well, regardless of who is coaching. Plus, having one of the best defensive players in the league at CB certainly helped make Rex look good.
[/quote]

You're not feelin' me Ed. What you're getting from me is not just a criticism of Raven ball, but, an urgency for excellence. Having to say our defense kept the score within reach is simply not up to Ravens' standards. Past defenses have won those games without offensive help for us and still should be expected to do so. What's changed about this defense? It's certainly not the personnel, if anything, the personnel has gotten better. Again I'll say it's ain't the personnel, it's the schemes or lack of good schemes. In short, the Ravens as a defensive team looked like a Formula 1 racecar with a schoolbus driver ( Mattison ) behind the wheel. Oh, there no getting around the fact, Rex took a stumbling Jets defense with a couple of fairly decent players from a crumbling #16 to a dominate #1 in one year.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='rastaman831226' date='11 April 2010 - 03:56 PM' timestamp='1271015767' post='389548']
You're not feelin' me Ed. What you're getting from me is not just a criticism of Raven ball, but, an urgency for excellence. Having to say our defense kept the score within reach is simply not up to Ravens' standards. Past defenses have won those games without offensive help for us and still should be expected to do so. What's changed about this defense? It's certainly not the personnel, if anything, the personnel has gotten better. Again I'll say it's ain't the personnel, it's the schemes or lack of good schemes. In short, the Ravens as a defensive team looked like a Formula 1 racecar with a schoolbus driver ( Mattison ) behind the wheel. Oh, there no getting around the fact, Rex took a stumbling Jets defense with a couple of fairly decent players from a crumbling #16 to a dominate #1 in one year.
[/quote]

How many defensive units have the Ravens had that could win games almost by themselves? There has been only one year where that happened.

You can demand excellence all you want but giving up 20 points to the Colts in a play-off game with Frank Walker and Chris Carr as the starting CBs opposite Foxworth is pretty damn good in my opinion(Rex's D failed to keep Peyton in check the very next week).

And the players on the D haven't gotten better. How you think is that is beyond me. The best players have got older and while there are a few very talented young players, 4 players who were starters or saw extended playing time went down for the season last year.

To your final statement Pace, Ellis, Harris, Scott, Leonhard, Rhodes and Revis aren't just a "a couple of fairly decent players". Rex had one of the more talented Ds in the league.

[Moderator 3]

Let me see if I understand what I've been reading.

In 2008, with Rex (and Scott and Leonard), our defense was ranked 3rd overall.

In 2009, without Rex (and Scott and Leonard), and with more games missed by our starters, our defense was ranked 3rd overall.

Because of this shocking drop off in performance we should villify Mattison.

Is that correct?

[dpatrickguy]

[quote name='rastaman831226' date='11 April 2010 - 03:56 PM' timestamp='1271015767' post='389548']
You're not feelin' me Ed. What you're getting from me is not just a criticism of Raven ball, but, an urgency for excellence. Having to say our defense kept the score within reach is simply not up to Ravens' standards. Past defenses have won those games without offensive help for us and still should be expected to do so. What's changed about this defense? It's certainly not the personnel, if anything, the personnel has gotten better. Again I'll say it's ain't the personnel, it's the schemes or lack of good schemes. In short, the Ravens as a defensive team looked like a Formula 1 racecar with a schoolbus driver ( Mattison ) behind the wheel. Oh, there no getting around the fact, Rex took a stumbling Jets defense with a couple of fairly decent players from a crumbling #16 to a dominate #1 in one year.
[/quote]

We had the #3 Defense last year. Obviously there are some holes and some patchwork to be done but I don't know how much more you could possibly want. Yes this year there is a sort of urgency given Ray and Ed's respective statuses, but really you're being overly critical of last year's D.

Also the Jets had more than a "couple of fairly decent players." Revis? Pace? Rhodes? Ellis? Harris? Really dude? And with the addition of a Bart Scott and Jim Leonhard they are a very solid group. Rex is a great coach no doubt, but they had the tools there for a lot of coordinators to make a turnaround.

[dpatrickguy]

[quote name='Moderator 3' date='11 April 2010 - 04:22 PM' timestamp='1271017377' post='389557']
Let me see if I understand what I've been reading.

In 2008, with Rex (and Scott and Leonard), our defense was ranked 3rd overall.

In 2009, without Rex (and Scott and Leonard), and with more games missed by our starters, our defense was ranked 3rd overall.

Because of this shocking drop off in performance we should villify Mattison.

Is that correct?
[/quote]

That's what I have gathered. Although we did have the #2 Defense in '08. We dropped one place. I'd like to see us be #1 every year, but really I don't see how anyone could really fault our D or Mattison too much, at least until the end of the 2010 campaign.

Now you get out of here with your reason and perspective! It's not welcome here!

[theFRANCHISE]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' date='11 April 2010 - 04:14 PM' timestamp='1271016844' post='389553']
You can demand excellence all you want but giving up 20 points to the Colts in a play-off game with Frank Walker and Chris Carr as the starting CBs opposite Foxworth is pretty damn good in my opinion(Rex's D failed to keep Peyton in check the very next week).
[/quote]
Speaking to that same playoff game against Indy, the Ravens defense did not do nearly as poorly as in years past.

Historically, Peyton Manning has owned Rex Ryan's defenses.

Since 2005, Ryan's first year as a defensive coordinator:
- Manning is 5-1, including the playoffs; the lone loss came in a game in which he barely played
- Manning's team has outscored Rex's defenses 173-68 all-time
- Manning has gone 108-for-171 (63.1%) for 1513 yards, 12 TDs, 2 INTs

Though Greg Mattison is 0-2 against Peyton Manning, the regular season loss came at a margin of just 2 points. Rex Ryan's closest margin was 9 points in the playoff loss in the 2006 season. The Ravens have already gotten one chip off their shoulder (Tom Brady), and all that remains is Peyton Manning.

[XxSizzleXx]

[quote name='Moderator 3' date='11 April 2010 - 02:22 PM' timestamp='1271017377' post='389557']
Let me see if I understand what I've been reading.

In 2008, with Rex (and Scott and Leonard), our defense was ranked 3rd overall.

In 2009, without Rex (and Scott and Leonard), and with more games missed by our starters, our defense was ranked 3rd overall.

Because of this shocking drop off in performance we should villify Mattison.

Is that correct?
[/quote]

Hey hey hey, don't try and give us the short end of the stick now, we were 2nd in D last year haha.

But yea that sounds about right, I think rasta is the only one who has a problem with our defense?:S:S

[rastaman831226]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' date='11 April 2010 - 04:14 PM' timestamp='1271016844' post='389553']
How many defensive units have the Ravens had that could win games almost by themselves? There has been only one year where that happened.

You can demand excellence all you want but giving up 20 points to the Colts in a play-off game with Frank Walker and Chris Carr as the starting CBs opposite Foxworth is pretty damn good in my opinion(Rex's D failed to keep Peyton in check the very next week).

And the players on the D haven't gotten better. How you think is that is beyond me. The best players have got older and while there are a few very talented young players, 4 players who were starters or saw extended playing time went down for the season last year.

To your final statement Pace, Ellis, Harris, Scott, Leonhard, Rhodes and Revis aren't just a "a couple of fairly decent players". Rex had one of the more talented Ds in the league.
[/quote]


(a.) What year was that? McAllister doesn't intercept and score? Ray doesn't intercept and score? Ngata doesn't intercept and score?
( No way to deny the defense has carried this team for nearly a decade
(c) We don't play the Colts every game in a 16 game schedule- how about the rest of the league?
(d) Rex did it with Oglesby, Martin, Ivey, Williams as part of the secondary ( where are these gys now? )
(e) You never heard of these Jets until Rex installed his system.
(f) Has that string of 100 yard rushers been broken yet?
(g)Gnata was back, Gregg was back, Bannan was back- overall team was healthier than just the previous year.

[dpatrickguy]

[quote name='rastaman831226' date='11 April 2010 - 04:59 PM' timestamp='1271019589' post='389571']
(a.) What year was that? McAllister doesn't intercept and score? Ray doesn't intercept and score? Ngata doesn't intercept and score?
( No way to deny the defense has carried this team for nearly a decade
(c) We don't play the Colts every game in a 16 game schedule- how about the rest of the league?
(d) Rex did it with Oglesby, Martin, Ivey, Williams as part of the secondary ( where are these gys now? )
(e) You never heard of these Jets until Rex installed his system.
(f) Has that string of 100 yard rushers been broken yet?
(g)Gnata was back, Gregg was back, Bannan was back- overall team was healthier than just the previous year.
[/quote]

I don't think anyone is denying there was a difference from 08 to 09. But we dropped 1 spot dude. Lighten up. Give the D some time. I also don't think he said that the D hasn't carried the team. He's saying that the only Defense we have had that could win us a Super Bowl, without a real offense, was the 2000 team. And maybe you weren't paying enough attention, because the rest of us had heard of those Jets. That record would have broken under Rex too, it was bound to happen.

As far as the injuries go. We also lost a lot to free agency, had a rookie starting at corner at one point, had an overweight Suggs, Gregg was not entirely healthy, Bannan wasn't that great to begin with, we lost Washington early, Reed was playing injured. We may have had more injured in 08 but there were a lot of key people either out or playing with and injury in 09. Not to mention how often did Oglesby, Martin, and Williams really get on the field. Ivy got some decent time, and Oglesby touched the field on occasion, but your blowing their involvement out of proportion.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='rastaman831226' date='11 April 2010 - 04:59 PM' timestamp='1271019589' post='389571']
(a.) What year was that? McAllister doesn't intercept and score? Ray doesn't intercept and score? Ngata doesn't intercept and score?
( No way to deny the defense has carried this team for nearly a decade
(c) We don't play the Colts every game in a 16 game schedule- how about the rest of the league?
(d) Rex did it with Oglesby, Martin, Ivey, Williams as part of the secondary ( where are these gys now? )
(e) You never heard of these Jets until Rex installed his system.
(f) Has that string of 100 yard rushers been broken yet?
(g)Gnata was back, Gregg was back, Bannan was back- overall team was healthier than just the previous year.
[/quote]

LOL! What are you talking about? And way to dodge my points.

The only year the D has been able to win games without little help from the O was 2000. The D has certainly carried the team for a long time but to where exactly? Up until last season, how many times had the team had back-to-back successful campaigns?

Like I've said a million times now, in the most important game of the year, the D came up big. No D in the NFL in today's NFL can go all season without getting lit up.

Rex never had success when the team had to start CBs guys like Oglesby, Martin, Ivey and Pittman. Don't twist facts.

I actually had heard of the Jets before Rex took over. They were Super Bowl contenders in 2008 thanks to Favre and their D.

The "no100 yard rusher" streak was a misleading stat the media promoted too long. It became usesless to bring up in 2008(under Rex) when the G-Men ran all over the D.

You're beef is with Mattison so why are you talking about the health of the team as a whole?

[rastaman831226]

[quote name='dpatrickguy' date='11 April 2010 - 05:09 PM' timestamp='1271020181' post='389573']
I don't think anyone is denying there was a difference from 08 to 09. But we dropped 1 spot dude. Lighten up. Give the D some time. I also don't think he said that the D hasn't carried the team. He's saying that the only Defense we have had that could win us a Super Bowl, without a real offense, was the 2000 team. And maybe you weren't paying enough attention, because the rest of us had heard of those Jets. That record would have broken under Rex too, it was bound to happen.

As far as the injuries go. We also lost a lot to free agency, had a rookie starting at corner at one point, had an overweight Suggs, Gregg was not entirely healthy, Bannan wasn't that great to begin with, we lost Washington early, Reed was playing injured. We may have had more injured in 08 but there were a lot of key people either out or playing with and injury in 09. Not to mention how often did Oglesby, Martin, and Williams really get on the field. Ivy got some decent time, and Oglesby touched the field on occasion, but your blowing their involvement out of proportion.
[/quote]

Here's the bottom line on this one. Unless you've got a magic wand to wave and magically make Gregg Mattison a competent DC overnite, forget about an SB appearance this coming season. And after Ray and Reed retire, be prepared to wave your crying towel because this team won't even sniff a SB ring as long as Gregg Mattison is in any way shape or form connected to this club. And since you appear to be a settler, become settled with a fair to middlin' team with an excuse driven fanbase, very entertaining but never a serious contender along the lines of the Philadelphia Eagles, the San Diego Chargers, or Ted Machibroda's old Ravens teams.

[rastaman831226]

[quote name='rastaman831226' date='08 April 2010 - 06:34 PM' timestamp='1270766087' post='388557']
Since you're done, let's do a wrap up of things you now agree with and cannot refute.
( A. ) Ravens' defense is fundamentally, through personnel and identity, a base 3/4- 46.
( B. ) Gregg Mattison miscalculated early in the season running a elite fundamentally sound 3/4-46 defense out of a base 4/3.
( C.) It took Mattison 1/2 season to realize blitzing defense is the Ravens calling card.
( D.) It took Mattison 3/4 of the season to realize disguised blitzing from angles is a tactic Ravens personnel had already perfected.
( E. ) Gregg Mattison is a slow witted bubblehead.
( F. ) 2008 defense outperformed 2009 defense.
( G. ) 2008 team IR'ed more players than 2009 team.
( H. ) Dominating TOP is a winning strategy.


Ta- Daaaaa!!!
[/quote]
Ed just reminded me of two more things that cannot be refuted:
( I ) 2009 team was healthier than 2008 team yet underperformed
( J ) Ravens did not play the Colts every game of the 2009 season.

[theFRANCHISE]

[quote name='rastaman831226' date='11 April 2010 - 07:00 PM' timestamp='1271026809' post='389599']
Ed just reminded me of two more things that cannot be refuted:
( I ) 2009 team was healthier than 2008 team yet underperformed
( J ) Ravens did not play the Colts every game of the 2009 season.
[/quote]
How can it be said that the facts you presented cannot be refuted, when they've already [i]been[/i] refuted? With numbers? Cold, hard numbers? [u]Quantitative[/u], [i]not[/i] qualitative, measures that disprove the majority of that previous list?

And again, the 2009 team was [i]not[/i] healthier than the 2008 team. The number of games missed by starters in 2009 is greater than the number of games missed in 2008.

[rastaman831226]

[quote name='theFRANCHISE' date='11 April 2010 - 07:49 PM' timestamp='1271029746' post='389620']
How can it be said that the facts you presented cannot be refuted, when they've already [i]been[/i] refuted? With numbers? Cold, hard numbers? [u]Quantitative[/u], [i]not[/i] qualitative, measures that disprove the majority of that previous list?

And again, the 2009 team was [i]not[/i] healthier than the 2008 team. The number of games missed by starters in 2009 is greater than the number of games missed in 2008.
[/quote]

Link?

[theFRANCHISE]

[quote name='rastaman831226' date='11 April 2010 - 09:14 PM' timestamp='1271034870' post='389635']
Link?
[/quote]
There are no sites that have the information readily handy, that information was culled via independent research using sources such as NFL.com where game logs are presented.

Or would you like the research done again?

[rastaman831226]

[quote name='theFRANCHISE' date='11 April 2010 - 07:49 PM' timestamp='1271029746' post='389620']
How can it be said that the facts you presented cannot be refuted, when they've already [i]been[/i] refuted? With numbers? Cold, hard numbers? [u]Quantitative[/u], [i]not[/i] qualitative, measures that disprove the majority of that previous list?

And again, the 2009 team was [i]not[/i] healthier than the 2008 team. The number of games missed by starters in 2009 is greater than the number of games missed in 2008.
[/quote]


Starters do not represent the entire team. You've just misrepresented the truth. Your figures are qualitative and not quantitative. Think it over. You erred badly. The 2009 TEAM was healthier than the 2008 TEAM and that cannot be refuted.

[theFRANCHISE]

[quote name='rastaman831226' date='11 April 2010 - 09:28 PM' timestamp='1271035737' post='389637']
Starters do not represent the entire team. You've just misrepresented the truth. Your figures are qualitative and not quantitative. Think it over. You erred badly. The 2009 TEAM was healthier than the 2008 TEAM and that cannot be refuted.
[/quote]
But starters are the portion of the team that sees the most playing time and, therefore, have the most significant effect on the outcome of each game. Would you like the figures culled again to account for [i]all[/i] players that missed time due to injury, including practice squad players and backups that were hurt in preseason?