4-3 V.s. 3-4

[flynismo]

Wow, are we still arguing about last year's #3 ranked defense?

#3, as in, ONLY TWO OTHER TEAMS ranked above us?

Interesting.

[berad]

[quote name='rastaman831226' date='09 April 2010 - 02:42 AM' timestamp='1270795366' post='388711']
Don't buy it. I specifically asked you to post a link. Your previous fudging of has lost you all credibility.
[/quote]

I posted MANY links! And, I told you, I compiled those stats [i]on my own[/i]. Grab a pen, a calculator, and go to town. [b]You will not find it on a website.[/b]

I posted a comprehensive list, just like requested. I'm not going any further with this because I've already proven my point, shown the statistics, shown the research, and backed it up. I believe that shows a lot more 'credibility' than posting pure opinion and bashing posters and Ravens coaches, alike.

[FerrariFan87]

[quote name='berad' date='09 April 2010 - 08:28 AM' timestamp='1270816139' post='388743']
I posted MANY links! And, I told you, I compiled those stats [i]on my own[/i]. Grab a pen, a calculator, and go to town. [b]You will not find it on a website.[/b]

I posted a comprehensive list, just like requested. I'm not going any further with this because I've already proven my point, shown the statistics, shown the research, and backed it up. I believe that shows a lot more 'credibility' than posting pure opinion and bashing posters and Ravens coaches, alike.
[/quote]

I agree, the facts are the facts and the stats are the stats. Nice job, berad.

[theFRANCHISE]

[quote name='rastaman831226' date='09 April 2010 - 02:42 AM' timestamp='1270795366' post='388711']
Don't buy it. I specifically asked you to post a link. Your previous fudging of has lost you all credibility.
[/quote]
Would you like me to double-check those facts [i]and[/i] post those very same links to each player's game log from NFL.com? I'm sure there'd be similar, if not identical, results. But, I'd be willing to do the footwork if requested.

[rastaman831226]

[quote name='berad' date='09 April 2010 - 08:28 AM' timestamp='1270816139' post='388743']
I posted MANY links! And, I told you, I compiled those stats [i]on my own[/i]. Grab a pen, a calculator, and go to town. [b]You will not find it on a website.[/b]

I posted a comprehensive list, just like requested. I'm not going any further with this because I've already proven my point, shown the statistics, shown the research, and backed it up. I believe that shows a lot more 'credibility' than posting pure opinion and bashing posters and Ravens coaches, alike.
[/quote

The question at hand was whether the 2009 TEAM was a healthier TEAM than the 2008 TEAM. Your response was 2009 STARTERS missed more games than 2008 STARTERS. You fudged the question- I have no doubt you'll fudge the answer. You have no credibility. I expected much more from a moderator.

[rastaman831226]

[quote name='theFRANCHISE' date='09 April 2010 - 10:17 AM' timestamp='1270822624' post='388775']
Would you like me to double-check those facts [i]and[/i] post those very same links to each player's game log from NFL.com? I'm sure there'd be similar, if not identical, results. But, I'd be willing to do the footwork if requested.
[/quote]

No, I would not like you to double check Berad's findings, they're wrongheaded and misleading. However, I would like you to address the question of whether the 2009 TEAM was healthier than the 2008 TEAM.

[rastaman831226]

[quote name='Ngata Chance' date='09 April 2010 - 08:05 AM' timestamp='1270814746' post='388737']
Would you agree that TOP is not completely the defence's responsibility?
[/quote]

Once again, think within the context of RAVENS football- its' history and identity and you'll answer your own question.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='rastaman831226' date='09 April 2010 - 02:42 AM' timestamp='1270795366' post='388711']
Don't buy it. I specifically asked you to post a link. [b]Your previous fudging of has lost you all credibility.[/b]
[/quote]

Coming from you, that's priceless.

Really guys, this debate is going nowhere. Rasta has his opinions on Mattison. He's certainly entitled to them but considering he's willing to hold the negatives against Mattison but won't acknowledge the positives, why continue to try and convince him? Any time a fact is brought to the table, its either ignored or the argument is shifted.

The facts remains Mattison fielded a top D last year despite dealing with an overweight, out of shape star player, aging.veterans and a secondary that was ravaged by injury. The performances against the Chargers, Vikings and GB were very poor but at the end of the year when it mattered most(play-offs), the D kept the game managable only for the offense to fall flat on its face.

I don't think the team is done signing FAs and with the draft coming up, both units should improve next season.

[rastaman831226]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' date='09 April 2010 - 12:04 PM' timestamp='1270829096' post='388841']
Coming from you, that's priceless.

Really guys, this debate is going nowhere. Rasta has his opinions on Mattison. He's certainly entitled to them but considering he's willing to hold the negatives against Mattison but won't acknowledge the positives, why continue to try and convince him? Any time a fact is brought to the table, its either ignored or the argument is shifted.

The facts remains Mattison fielded a top D last year despite dealing with an overweight, out of shape star player, aging.veterans and a secondary that was ravaged by injury. The performances against the Chargers, Vikings and GB were very poor but at the end of the year when it mattered most(play-offs), the D kept the game managable only for the offense to fall flat on its face.

I don't think the team is done signing FAs and with the draft coming up, both units should improve next season.
[/quote]

C'mon Ed, I thought you were done or are you just back to add to the list of things you cannot refute. Spirited debate too much for you? Waving the white flag so early? Love losing? Soft belly? Is this all too much and over your head? Hey we're talkin' some serious Ravens football pros and cons. If you can't stand the heat, you should have stayed out of the kitchen. Ta-Da.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='rastaman831226' date='09 April 2010 - 01:17 PM' timestamp='1270833423' post='388895']
C'mon Ed, I thought you were done or are you just back to add to the list of things you cannot refute. Spirited debate too much for you? Waving the white flag so early? Love losing? Soft belly? Is this all too much and over your head? Hey we're talkin' some serious Ravens football pros and cons. If you can't stand the heat, you should have stayed out of the kitchen. Ta-Da.
[/quote]

I should have made myself clearer. I was done discussing the importance of TOP with you.

Also, almost everything you have said on this topic can be refuted. The fact that this "debate" has gone on this long is proof of that.

As for pros and cons, other people have discussed the pros of the D bit you haven't so don't say "we're" like you've been objective all along.

[Ngata Chance]

[quote name='rastaman831226' date='09 April 2010 - 09:58 AM' timestamp='1270828713' post='388835']
Once again, think within the context of RAVENS football- its' history and identity and you'll answer your own question.
[/quote]


I know what my own answer is. I want to know what yours is. So kindly answer the question in your own words.

[beasy2487]

"We faced 11 Pro Bowl QBs – some for-sure Hall of Famers – in the 2009 season. We played against Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Ben Roethlisberger and Carson Palmer twice each. We also had to match up with Brett Favre, Philip Rivers and Aaron Rodgers… [b]And, we still finished third in the NFL in fewest yards and fewest points allowed.[/b] Pretty good season for first-year defensive coordinator Greg Mattison and the guys."
--Kevin Byrne in this week's "[url="http://www.baltimoreravens.com/News/Articles/2010/04/Byrne_Identity_-_Do_You_Love_Football.aspx"]Byrne Identity[/url]"

That's for you Kyle Boller rastaman831226

<[i]Trying to avoid the obscenity filter by using rhyming words is not allowed. We aren't that stupid.> [/i]

Edit: Wasn't trying to hide anything, considering I called attention to the rhyme. I'd think a guy who's not only picking fights with people on the board but also specifically calling out moderators would warrant a little leniency. Is there really anything obscene about "Pro Bowl Mass Troller?" I'm surprised that's consider an attack. He's pretty good at what he does... lol.

[beasy2487]

[quote name='thewarden86' date='08 April 2010 - 10:34 PM' timestamp='1270780481' post='388652']

[/quote]

Oh how nice it would be to have a DC with no ambition...

[thewarden86]

[quote name='beasy2487' date='09 April 2010 - 03:15 PM' timestamp='1270840503' post='389013']
Oh how nice it would be to have a DC with no ambition...
[/quote]

?

[beasy2487]

[quote name='thewarden86' date='09 April 2010 - 03:18 PM' timestamp='1270840689' post='389016']
?
[/quote]

I'm saying this discussion wouldn't be where it was if we still had Rex, but we don't still have Rex because he wanted a promotion. LeBeau, seems to be happy where he is(Based on the fact he tried the head coaching thing and decided he'd rather stick to what he's best at). Just needling you Ward. lol.

[thewarden86]

[quote name='beasy2487' date='09 April 2010 - 03:30 PM' timestamp='1270841406' post='389021']
I'm saying this discussion wouldn't be where it was if we still had Rex, but we don't still have Rex because he wanted a promotion. LeBeau, seems to be happy where he is(Based on the fact he tried the head coaching thing and decided he'd rather stick to what he's best at). Just needling you Ward. lol.
[/quote]

Oh, okay then.

LeBeau, unfortunately, is one of those great coaches who's just better as a coordinator. Like Wade Philips and Norv Turner.

Rex may not have been a better DC, but he did possess the skills to be a HC. All the coaches mentioned know more than you or I could hope to know.

Brian Billick however was a slug. j/k.

[beasy2487]

[quote name='thewarden86' date='09 April 2010 - 03:38 PM' timestamp='1270841902' post='389023']
Oh, okay then.

LeBeau, unfortunately, is one of those great coaches who's just better as a coordinator. Like Wade Philips and Norv Turner.

Rex may not have been a better DC, but he did possess the skills to be a HC. All the coaches mentioned know more than you or I could hope to know.

Brian Billick however was a slug. j/k.
[/quote]

Haha yea but he was the right slug, at the right place, at the right time. It's better to be lucky than smart, haha.

[thewarden86]

[quote name='beasy2487' date='09 April 2010 - 04:02 PM' timestamp='1270843374' post='389026']
Haha yea but he was the right slug, at the right place, at the right time. [b]It's better to be lucky than smart[/b], haha.
[/quote]

The saying actually goes"I'd rather be lucky than good" but I'll give you a +1 anyway because I love that saying. lol

[beasy2487]

[quote name='thewarden86' date='09 April 2010 - 04:15 PM' timestamp='1270844151' post='389029']
The saying actually goes"I'd rather be lucky than good" but I'll give you a +1 anyway because I love that saying. lol
[/quote]

Oh yea?! Well I refuse to be out-respected by a Steeler fan. So take THAT.

[thewarden86]

[quote name='beasy2487' date='09 April 2010 - 05:30 PM' timestamp='1270848653' post='389057']
Oh yea?! Well I refuse to be out-respected by a Steeler fan. So take THAT.
[/quote]

lol. Thanks.

I'd better split; all this Raven/Steeler love is starting feel a little too strange. lol

[Bltravens]

Its unreal to see your outright refusal to admit TOP( and the way the Ravens play football with ball control), is a direct result of both sides of the ball. Yet you put the blame on the defense for losing it, makes Mattison a poor DC, play caller, and coach. You still refusing this, saps all your credibility.

[XxSizzleXx]

This is a beat up thread, no one agrees with you as you are as stubborn as an ox and no YOU DIDN'T WIN. Face the facts we had the 3rd best D in the league.

[Dubs]

Just thought id post this as its on ethe initial topic

[url="http://www.baltimorebeatdown.com/2010/4/9/1412079/football-101-the-ravens-hybrid"]Ravens Hybrid Defense Breakdown[/url]

not too shabby of a read, has some interesting historical insight

[indianstick]

yea that article is not bad..its the ravens D in a nutshell

[XxSizzleXx]

That's an awesome read.

[Shammy]

basically what i was sayin ... sometimes a OLB gets down in stance as a DE

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Dubs' date='10 April 2010 - 04:30 PM' timestamp='1270931438' post='389295']
Just thought id post this as its on ethe initial topic

[url="http://www.baltimorebeatdown.com/2010/4/9/1412079/football-101-the-ravens-hybrid"]Ravens Hybrid Defense Breakdown[/url]

not too shabby of a read, has some interesting historical insight
[/quote]

Great stuff man.

I guess this debate is pretty much over.

[The King]

We essentially play a 4-3 with 3-4 personnel on the field. Suggs plays hand down more often than not, which essentially has him playing like an end in a 4-3 set. However, he also plays the run like a LB on rushing downs, and we usually have our other three LBs playing a more traditional role of run stopping with, admittedly, more blitz packages than most other teams. Suggs being tagged as a "hybrid" player is the real tipping point of the difference between our being a 4-3 and 3-4.

I'm going to go with a 3.3-3.7. Suggs is a bit more of a pass-rushing linebacker than he is a run-stopping DE, but not a whole lot.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='The King' date='10 April 2010 - 09:31 PM' timestamp='1270949481' post='389378']
We essentially play a 4-3 with 3-4 personnel on the field. Suggs plays hand down more often than not, which essentially has him playing like an end in a 4-3 set. However, he also plays the run like a LB on rushing downs, and we usually have our other three LBs playing a more traditional role of run stopping with, admittedly, more blitz packages than most other teams. Suggs being tagged as a "hybrid" player is the real tipping point of the difference between our being a 4-3 and 3-4.

I'm going to go with a 3.3-3.7. [b]Suggs is a bit more of a pass-rushing linebacker than he is a run-stopping DE, but not a whole lot.[/b]
[/quote]

Suggs should get back to being a good pass rusher this year but he was a force againt the run last season.

[luckie618]

The Raven should play what the defensive coordinator is. I still like Rex way. Whatever It takes to win, I dont care if it is a 4-3, 3-4 and as long they are the on top the the NFL at the end of the season. Plus I want to see more hiden bitlz from them to but that rex way.