4-3 V.s. 3-4

[kagejb]

[quote name='rastaman831226' date='31 March 2010 - 10:12 AM' timestamp='1270044751' post='384687']
Then its' a matter of wrong coach, wrong time, wrong scheme. Changing the scheme to fit the coach instead of changing the coach to fit the scheme is a recipe for failure, especially for a team in the verge of serious SB contention.
[/quote]
What are you talking about? Are you saying that it is easier for a coach to throw everything he knew for his whole career and change it to something the he has very little knowledge at doing? How does that help the team in any way?

Mattison brought a no pass rush, bad secondary defense to third best in the NFL.

[XxSizzleXx]

I don't know if there is really a hate for Mattison there are just firm believers that we will be converting back to 4-3, and then there are the majority of us who think no way because we play unreal when we're in the 3-4 compared to the 4-3.

[wayne]

I will give Mattison a break seeing how we did the Pats in the playoffs and seeing how much better our D started playing at the end of the year. We were even solid against the Colts ( Our O always sucks against the Colts, their 4-3 Tampa 2 scheme gives us fits which is the direction Mattison is trying to go I guess ). We just need another dominant pass rusher on the other side ( no offense JJ ) to make that type of scheme really work. The Vikings were also another prime example of running the 4-3 scheme pretty good last year. The way they did the Cowboys in the playoffs with Allen and Edwards ( thats what hurt the Viks when they played the Saints , Edwards was hurt in the Cowboys gm ) was what you call a dominant 4-3 defense. I understand what Mattison is trying to do b/c we see what happened to Ryans Jets when they faced the Colts , Colts put up way more points against them than us. When Peyton started to have a feel for who and where the blitz was comimg from, he started picking the Jets apart and Mattison is trying to implement a less blitzing scheme with more people dropping back in coverage for the Bradys, Mannings, and Brees of the world . These ar Pass Happy times.

[beasy2487]

[quote name='wayne' date='31 March 2010 - 08:32 PM' timestamp='1270081931' post='384948']
I will give Mattison a break seeing how we did the Pats in the playoffs and seeing how much better our D started playing at the end of the year. We were even solid against the Colts ( Our O always sucks against the Colts, their 4-3 Tampa 2 scheme gives us fits which is the direction Mattison is trying to go I guess ). We just need another dominant pass rusher on the other side ( no offense JJ ) to make that type of scheme really work. The Vikings were also another prime example of running the 4-3 scheme pretty good last year. The way they did the Cowboys in the playoffs with Allen and Edwards ( thats what hurt the Viks when they played the Saints , Edwards was hurt in the Cowboys gm ) was what you call a dominant 4-3 defense. I understand what Mattison is trying to do b/c we see what happened to Ryans Jets when they faced the Colts , Colts put up way more points against them than us. When Peyton started to have a feel for who and where the blitz was comimg from, he started picking the Jets apart and[b] Mattison is trying to implement a less blitzing scheme with more people dropping back in coverage for the Bradys, Mannings, and Brees of the world . These ar Pass Happy times.[/b]
[/quote]

Someone making some gd sense.

[ed.s52]

Definitely 3-4. Best way to utilize JJ and Ray wouldnt be the best 4-3 MLB. If we play a 4-3, Ellerbe isnt really in the game, and I want to see us develop him, and Mt. Cody would be great as our nose if we draft him.

We could play both, but being a predominante 3-4 team makes the most sense right now, although we could switch it up depending on the looks we get.

[Shammy]

[quote name='ed.s52' date='31 March 2010 - 11:12 PM' timestamp='1270091521' post='385022']
Definitely 3-4. Best way to utilize JJ and Ray wouldnt be the best 4-3 MLB. If we play a 4-3, Ellerbe isnt really in the game, and I want to see us develop him, and Mt. Cody would be great as our nose if we draft him.

We could play both, but being a predominante 3-4 team makes the most sense right now, although we could switch it up depending on the looks we get.
[/quote]

i always thought JJ would be a better MLB

[rastaman831226]

[quote name='wayne' date='31 March 2010 - 08:32 PM' timestamp='1270081931' post='384948']
I will give Mattison a break seeing how we did the Pats in the playoffs and seeing how much better our D started playing at the end of the year. We were even solid against the Colts ( Our O always sucks against the Colts, their 4-3 Tampa 2 scheme gives us fits which is the direction Mattison is trying to go I guess ). We just need another dominant pass rusher on the other side ( no offense JJ ) to make that type of scheme really work. The Vikings were also another prime example of running the 4-3 scheme pretty good last year. The way they did the Cowboys in the playoffs with Allen and Edwards ( thats what hurt the Viks when they played the Saints , Edwards was hurt in the Cowboys gm ) was what you call a dominant 4-3 defense. I understand what Mattison is trying to do b/c we see what happened to Ryans Jets when they faced the Colts , Colts put up way more points against them than us. When Peyton started to have a feel for who and where the blitz was comimg from, he started picking the Jets apart and Mattison is trying to implement a less blitzing scheme with more people dropping back in coverage for the Bradys, Mannings, and Brees of the world . These ar Pass Happy times.
[/quote]

Sorry, I'm not as forgiving of Mattison as Ravens DC. Any coach who, despite a year of experience within the organization, takes 1/2 the season to realize the talent he has under him in order to best put that talent in the position to succeed is not my definition of a good coach at any level. It is my thinking that this kind of coach is slow to react and prone to be easily outmaneuvered and outcoached by nimbler minds in the NFL. The Ravens defense finished 2009 a soft number 3 last season as opposed to a hard number 2 the previous year. The major difference being the injury riddled 2008 team was a dominate scoring defense whereas the 2009 version could not score, prevent the big play, nor consistently maintain good field position. It is my sincere belief that the Ravens defense will unfortunately deteriorate further next season under an all too conservative and slow to adjust Gregg Mattison.

[wayne]

[quote name='rastaman831226' date='01 April 2010 - 12:37 AM' timestamp='1270103839' post='385063']
Sorry, I'm not as forgiving of Mattison as Ravens DC. Any coach who, despite a year of experience within the organization, takes 1/2 the season to realize the talent he has under him in order to best put that talent in the position to succeed is not my definition of a good coach at any level. It is my thinking that this kind of coach is slow to react and prone to be easily outmaneuvered and outcoached by nimbler minds in the NFL. The Ravens defense finished 2009 a soft number 3 last season as opposed to a hard number 2 the previous year. The major difference being the injury riddled 2008 team was a dominate scoring defense whereas the 2009 version could not score, prevent the big play, nor consistently maintain good field position. It is my sincere belief that the Ravens defense will unfortunately deteriorate further next season under an all too conservative and slow to adjust Gregg Mattison.
[/quote]
I understand where you are coming from, trust me, I really do. Seing that Mattison was suppose to be Ryans protege , I was going crazy when I seen the Ravens D at the beginning of the year which was the total opposite of how it was under Rex. I seen majority 4-3 alignment defenses ( Get out of here with that 3-4 hybrid talk ), barely any blitzing with no confusion pre-snap ( guys was just staying in one spot not moving around at all). This style of play totally caught me off guard considering the year before we were wrecking shop on D doing great with the scheme we already had in place with the nickname Organized Chaos. It was a thing of beauty to see all the guys moving around confusing the hell out of the Qb and Oline before the snap of the ball which resulted in a league high for creating turnovers ( mostly INTs ). Now, there will be no confusion , what you see is what you get and seeing how we dismantled the Pats, I'm willing to give Mattison a chance. Even without Wes, that was still great to shut down a team like the Pats. I have never scene Brady and Co. get dismantled like that with the exception of the Giants-Pats SB.

[kagejb]

[quote name='rastaman831226' date='01 April 2010 - 02:37 AM' timestamp='1270103839' post='385063']
Sorry, I'm not as forgiving of Mattison as Ravens DC. Any coach who, despite a year of experience within the organization, takes 1/2 the season to realize the talent he has under him in order to best put that talent in the position to succeed is not my definition of a good coach at any level. It is my thinking that this kind of coach is slow to react and prone to be easily outmaneuvered and outcoached by nimbler minds in the NFL. The Ravens defense finished 2009 a soft number 3 last season as opposed to a hard number 2 the previous year. The major difference being the injury riddled 2008 team was a dominate scoring defense whereas the 2009 version could not score, prevent the big play, nor consistently maintain good field position. It is my sincere belief that the Ravens defense will unfortunately deteriorate further next season under an all too conservative and slow to adjust Gregg Mattison.
[/quote]
Rex Ryan didn't have the almighty Frank Walker starting as a corner. He also didn't have Ellerbe or Gooden as starters, both downgrades to Bart Scott. Rex also never had Reed and Ngata injured during the 2008 season. Mattison did, and he still got us to third best in the NFL.

[rastaman831226]

[quote name='wayne' date='01 April 2010 - 05:30 AM' timestamp='1270114221' post='385079']
I understand where you are coming from, trust me, I really do. Seing that Mattison was suppose to be Ryans protege , I was going crazy when I seen the Ravens D at the beginning of the year which was the total opposite of how it was under Rex. I seen majority 4-3 alignment defenses ( Get out of here with that 3-4 hybrid talk ), barely any blitzing with no confusion pre-snap ( guys was just staying in one spot not moving around at all). This style of play totally caught me off guard considering the year before we were wrecking shop on D doing great with the scheme we already had in place with the nickname Organized Chaos. It was a thing of beauty to see all the guys moving around confusing the hell out of the Qb and Oline before the snap of the ball which resulted in a league high for creating turnovers ( mostly INTs ). Now, there will be no confusion , what you see is what you get and seeing how we dismantled the Pats, I'm willing to give Mattison a chance. Even without Wes, that was still great to shut down a team like the Pats. I have never scene Brady and Co. get dismantled like that with the exception of the Giants-Pats SB.
[/quote]

Unlike many people on this board, I'm not basing my opinion on 1 game, but rather the body of work for 2009. And based on that body of work, anyone with any grain of football sense would have to rate Mattison's performance as disappointing to mediocre given the talent he inherited. Many are jumping for joy about the defense's #3 ranking in 2009- I'm not. As stated before, an injury plagued 2008 defense finished a strong #2 while a comparatively healthy Ravens' defense finished a soft #3. In my book, that 2009 defense had all the potential to finish #1 yet did not and failed to be the determining factor in major games due to Mattison's inability to make game to game adjustments with both personnel and game planning. It is my strong opinion that, based in last year's performance, Gregg Mattison is ill suited to run this great Ravens' defense.

[rastaman831226]

[quote name='kagejb' date='01 April 2010 - 08:48 AM' timestamp='1270126080' post='385098']
Rex Ryan didn't have the almighty Frank Walker starting as a corner. He also didn't have Ellerbe or Gooden as starters, both downgrades to Bart Scott. Rex also never had Reed and Ngata injured during the 2008 season. Mattison did, and he still got us to third best in the NFL.
[/quote]


Wrong, Rex had both Ray and Suggs playing with one arm, a Bills' practice squad player at S, Reed playing half speed because of neck injury, Justin Bannan at DE, NT, and DT, Corey Ivey and Frank Walker starting at corner late in the season and at times, Edgar Jones playing both ways as TE, DE, NT, DT, and LB. Yet that injury riddled defense finished a strong #2 and carried the Ravens through the 2008 season and into the AFC championship game despite having played 18 games in a row. The same cannot be said of Mattison's 2009 version of that defense. Not at all a fair comparison.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='rastaman831226' date='01 April 2010 - 07:24 AM' timestamp='1270128295' post='385108']
Wrong, Rex had both Ray and Suggs playing with one arm, a Bills' practice squad player at S, Reed playing half speed because of neck injury, Justin Bannan at DE, NT, and DT, Corey Ivey and Frank Walker starting at corner late in the season and at times, Edgar Jones playing both ways as TE, DE, NT, DT, and LB. Yet that injury riddled defense finished a strong #2 and carried the Ravens through the 2008 season and into the AFC championship game despite having played 18 games in a row. The same cannot be said of Mattison's 2009 version of that defense. Not at all a fair comparison.
[/quote]
Suggs had 1 arm for one game and missed one half of football in the AFC Division game. Suggs was also the best 3-4 OLB in the entire league last year. He was not close to being an impact player for Mattison. Ray was also not playing with 1 arm last year either, he may have been banged up, but he was banged up this year at various times too. Ivy only started the last half of the AFC Championship last year, he was the nickel for the rest of the year. Jones only played the half against the Titans, and sparingly used in the Championship game to spell Suggs and when we went to a 4-3 set on 1st downs in run support. Last year at corner we had Rolle who played basically the entire year except the Championship game, a very experienced and quality corner. Walker didnt start playing until the Championship game either because we had Washington, Rolle, Ivy playing the two playoff games prior. Leonhard was a practice squad kid yes, but clearly he was a better player than Landry for the first 8 weeks of this year until Landry got settled back in. Mattison lost Suggs game impact ability, 2 starting corners, a Jack LB, and SS back from almost a career ending injury for more than just 2 games. Rex lost a NT, and C-Mac. Landry is a wash, and if Reed was playing at half speed last year I dont even want to know what speed he was playing at this year.

[beasy2487]

[quote name='Bltravens' date='01 April 2010 - 03:39 PM' timestamp='1270150780' post='385267']
Suggs had 1 arm for one game and missed one half of football in the AFC Division game. Suggs was also the best 3-4 OLB in the entire league last year. He was not close to being an impact player for Mattison. Ray was also not playing with 1 arm last year either, he may have been banged up, but he was banged up this year at various times too. Ivy only started the last half of the AFC Championship last year, he was the nickel for the rest of the year. Jones only played the half against the Titans, and sparingly used in the Championship game to spell Suggs and when we went to a 4-3 set on 1st downs in run support. Last year at corner we had Rolle who played basically the entire year except the Championship game, a very experienced and quality corner. Walker didnt start playing until the Championship game either because we had Washington, Rolle, Ivy playing the two playoff games prior. Leonhard was a practice squad kid yes, but clearly he was a better player than Landry for the first 8 weeks of this year until Landry got settled back in. Mattison lost Suggs game impact ability, 2 starting corners, a Jack LB, and SS back from almost a career ending injury for more than just 2 games. Rex lost a NT, and C-Mac. Landry is a wash.
[/quote]

Haha well rastaman was right then... it wasn't a fair comparison... just not fair in Mattison's favor, not against him. Time to move, it's Mattison's time now.

[wayne]

[quote name='rastaman831226' date='01 April 2010 - 07:03 AM' timestamp='1270127000' post='385104']
Unlike many people on this board, I'm not basing my opinion on 1 game, but rather the body of work for 2009. And based on that body of work, anyone with any grain of football sense would have to rate Mattison's performance as disappointing to mediocre given the talent he inherited. Many are jumping for joy about the defense's #3 ranking in 2009- I'm not. As stated before, an injury plagued 2008 defense finished a strong #2 while a comparatively healthy Ravens' defense finished a soft #3. In my book, that 2009 defense had all the potential to finish #1 yet did not and failed to be the determining factor in major games due to Mattison's inability to make game to game adjustments with both personnel and game planning. It is my strong opinion that, based in last year's performance, Gregg Mattison is ill suited to run this great Ravens' defense.
[/quote]
I try not to get to caught up in numbers and rankings but I say its too early to say Mattison is not suited to run this defense. Also, as far as competition goes, I say this past season was one of the hardest strength of schedule seasons the Ravens have had in quite some time and the strength of schedule ranking before the season starts is very misleading at times. We played all the tuffest teams in the league almost this past season ( Colts, Pats, Denver, Chargers, Bengals twice, Vikings, Packers,Steelers twice, ) With the exception of the Steelers , all those teams were tops in their division for a good reason and those teams offense werre very high powered.

[JoeyFlex5]

greg mattison has a 4-3 mindstate, 3-4 just simply doesnt work when the DC would rather let players run sideline to sideline instead of bringing pressure with the LB's. 3-4 is great with a rex ryan/dick lebeau/dom capers but with a greg mattison... its time to change. it would be a dream scenario if brandon graham was available at #25, and cody available in the 2nd round. but that would never happen so what i would like to see realistically is the best corner available in the first, and terrence cody in the second, or jared odrick in the first, and hopefully perrish cox in the second. with ngata, gregg, redding, cody/odrick we'll have a ridiculously deep d line, suggs(being in shape) will stay at DE on every down possible, kruger and pryce will rotate opposite. Ray obviously will be the MLB, but gooden seems like he would be a good MLB with his incredible speed for a linebacker, ellerbe is looking like a possible future MLB as well. JJ would stay where he is, and while ray is still around, ellerbe, mcclain, and gooden would rotate opposite JJ when needed.

[berad]

For any of you who believe Rex Ryan walked on water and was the only reason for our defensive success the past few years, let me hit you up with some numbers....

The [b]2008 Ravens D vs 2009 Ravens D[/b]:

-The 2008 Ravens allowed only 17 points less, throughout the entire season, than their 2009 counterparts.
-The 2008 Ravens gave up the same amount of passing TDs (17).
-The 2008 Ravens allowed 3.6 ypc on the ground while the 2009 Ravens allowed only 3.4 ypc.

And don't forget that Rex had his letdowns as well. I'm sure every fan remembers the shellacking we got when we visited [b][url="http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2008101202/2008/REG6/ravens@colts"]Indianapolis[/url][/b] and [b][url="http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2008111608/2008/REG11/ravens@giants"]New Jersey[/url][/b] in 2008...

Personally, I don't think the defense was up to par in 2009, I don't think anyone really did. The Ravens should be dominating people with their tremendous talent and aggressive nature as we've seen before. But I'm willing to give Mattison more than one chance to prove his worth, he won't disappoint in 2010.

[rastaman831226]

[quote name='wayne' date='01 April 2010 - 05:22 PM' timestamp='1270156928' post='385301']
I try not to get to caught up in numbers and rankings but I say its too early to say Mattison is not suited to run this defense. Also, as far as competition goes, I say this past season was one of the hardest strength of schedule seasons the Ravens have had in quite some time and the strength of schedule ranking before the season starts is very misleading at times. We played all the tuffest teams in the league almost this past season ( Colts, Pats, Denver, Chargers, Bengals twice, Vikings, Packers,Steelers twice, ) With the exception of the Steelers , all those teams were tops in their division for a good reason and those teams offense werre very high powered.
[/quote]

I hear you Wayne, but did you ever think in your lifetime you'd ever see a Ravens' defense that could not dominate and score? And did you ever think anyone would have to make excuses for a Ravens defense? In my view, Gregg Mattison is the Brian Billick of the Ravens' defense. His early miscalculations, his inability to make game to game scheme adjustments to fit the opposition, and his all too conservative approach cost the Ravens games and a prime playoff slot. It's my sincere hope that newly hired former N.E. DC Dan Pees and now Ravens' LB coach holds great sway with not only Gregg Mattison and game palnning, but HC Harbaugh as well. Gregg Mattison, based on last year's performance, is simply ill suited to run this great Ravens defense and is not the elite DC coach we need for a team whose SB aspirations are rapidly closing

[rastaman831226]

[quote name='berad' date='02 April 2010 - 10:42 PM' timestamp='1270262520' post='385991']
For any of you who believe Rex Ryan walked on water and was the only reason for our defensive success the past few years, let me hit you up with some numbers....

The [b]2008 Ravens D vs 2009 Ravens D[/b]:

-The 2008 Ravens allowed only 17 points less, throughout the entire season, than their 2009 counterparts.
-The 2008 Ravens gave up the same amount of passing TDs (17).
-The 2008 Ravens allowed 3.6 ypc on the ground while the 2009 Ravens allowed only 3.4 ypc.

And don't forget that Rex had his letdowns as well. I'm sure every fan remembers the shellacking we got when we visited [b][url="http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2008101202/2008/REG6/ravens@colts"]Indianapolis[/url][/b] and [b][url="http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2008111608/2008/REG11/ravens@giants"]New Jersey[/url][/b] in 2008...

Personally, I don't think the defense was up to par in 2009, I don't think anyone really did. The Ravens should be dominating people with their tremendous talent and aggressive nature as we've seen before. But I'm willing to give Mattison more than one chance to prove his worth, he won't disappoint in 2010.
[/quote]
Disappointing statement Berad. To say Rex was not a great coach when he was here in Baltimore is ludicrous, childish, and beneath you. Rex's D carried this team for years and now, as should have been expected, he and Rick Pettine ' walk on water... " in New York taking a mediocre 2008 #16 ranked Jets defense all the way to 2009's #1 in the NFL with players who are still learning his complicated system. That's quite a feat, but not unexpected for a coaches of Rex and Pettine's caliber. And yet here we sit arguing the merits and demerits of the Gregg Mattison approach.... my, what a difference a year makes.

[berad]

[quote name='rastaman831226' date='03 April 2010 - 11:12 AM' timestamp='1270307522' post='386100']
Disappointing statement Berad. To say Rex was not a great coach when he was here in Baltimore is ludicrous, childish, and beneath you. Rex's D carried this team for years and now, as should have been expected, he and Rick Pettine ' walk on water... " in New York taking a mediocre 2008 #16 ranked Jets defense all the way to 2009's #1 in the NFL with players who are still learning his complicated system. That's quite a feat, but not unexpected for a coaches of Rex and Pettine's caliber. And yet here we sit arguing the merits and demerits of the Gregg Mattison approach.... my, what a difference a year makes.
[/quote]

I never said he wasn't a great coach, he is just not as good as some remember him to be. Look at those statistics, I didn't make those up, the numbers are comparable. Combine that with the fact that our defense was [b]greatly[/b] improved over the second half of the season and I think there is plenty of reason for optimism.

Starting in week 8, after the bye, the Ravens defense returned to it's dominant ways. We only allowed 13.1 points a game from that point onward. I would say that's pretty good so I think it's unfair to question Mattison's merit as a coach after only a few bad weeks. It was Mattison's first season as DC, he deserves some leeway. Rex Ryan's first season as DC, in 2005, the Ravens were the 5th best defensive unit in the league and allowed 299 points, almost 40 more than the 2009 Ravens. Just a little patience can pay off, Mattison is a good coach.

But, more importantly, who cares about Rex Ryan anymore? I'm much more interesting in the people working and playing for the Ravens. Ryan is way up 95 and way off my radar, I don't think it serves any purpose pondering what could have been.

[rastaman831226]

[quote name='berad' date='03 April 2010 - 01:25 PM' timestamp='1270315555' post='386142']
I never said he wasn't a great coach, he is just not as good as some remember him to be. Look at those statistics, I didn't make those up, the numbers are comparable. Combine that with the fact that our defense was [b]greatly[/b] improved over the second half of the season and I think there is plenty of reason for optimism.

Starting in week 8, after the bye, the Ravens defense returned to it's dominant ways. We only allowed 13.1 points a game from that point onward. I would say that's pretty good so I think it's unfair to question Mattison's merit as a coach after only a few bad weeks. It was Mattison's first season as DC, he deserves some leeway. Rex Ryan's first season as DC, in 2005, the Ravens were the 5th best defensive unit in the league and allowed 299 points, almost 40 more than the 2009 Ravens. Just a little patience can pay off, Mattison is a good coach.

But, more importantly, who cares about Rex Ryan anymore? I'm much more interesting in the people working and playing for the Ravens. Ryan is way up 95 and way off my radar, I don't think it serves any purpose pondering what could have been.
[/quote]

That was an undeserved swipe at Rex Ryan. A former Raven coach who, like many other former Ravens, contributed mightily to the Ravens' cause. He should be applauded for his years here. As to your stats ? That only serve to bolster what is absolutely obvious- Rex's exotic 2008 Organized Chaos defense was better than Gregg Mattison's 2009 Mayonnaise base 4/3 defense in every important statistical category. From Total Points, Total Yards. Total TD's to Passing Com. to Yards Allowed. There's no question Mattison's defense underperformed the standard Rex set the previous year in 2008. The real question here is Mattison's competence to run this great defense. Many like to recall the Playoff game in N.E., but my last remembrance of last season was the confused, out of sync, and outcoached Mattison defense not showing anything new the next game against the Colts. Someday Mattison may evolve into a decent coach someday, but can you put your faith in a coach who changed a dominate and fundamentally sound blitzing 3/4 defense switch to a 4/3 base alignment with little or no blitzing then take 1/2 a season to realize his mistake and 3/4 of the season to switch back to disguising angled blitzes- a tactic his personnel had perfected under Rex Ryan?

[beasy2487]

[quote name='rastaman831226' date='04 April 2010 - 06:33 PM' timestamp='1270420418' post='386455']
[b]That was an undeserved swipe at Rex Ryan. A former Raven coach [/b] who, like many other former Ravens, contributed mightily to the Ravens' cause. He should be applauded for his years here. As to your stats ? That only serve to bolster what is absolutely obvious- Rex's exotic 2008 Organized Chaos defense was better than Gregg Mattison's 2009 Mayonnaise base 4/3 defense in every important statistical category. From Total Points, Total Yards. Total TD's to Passing Com. to Yards Allowed. There's no question Mattison's defense underperformed the standard Rex set the previous year in 2008. The real question here is Mattison's competence to run this great defense. Many like to recall the Playoff game in N.E., but my last remembrance of last season was the confused, out of sync, and outcoached Mattison defense not showing anything new the next game against the Colts. Someday Mattison may evolve into a decent coach someday, but can you put your faith in a coach who changed a dominate and fundamentally sound blitzing 3/4 defense switch to a 4/3 base alignment with little or no blitzing then take 1/2 a season to realize his mistake and 3/4 of the season to switch back to disguising angled blitzes- a tactic his personnel had perfected under Rex Ryan?
[/quote]
<< me trying to make sense of rastaman's argument

An undeserved swipe at Rex Ryan? Are you not repeatedly making undeserved swipes at Greg Mattison, a CURRENT Raven coach? I'm confused. I think Berad stated quite clearly that in Ryan's first year his defense performed worse than Mattison's did.

[quote name='berad' date='03 April 2010 - 01:25 PM' timestamp='1270315555' post='386142']
Starting in week 8, after the bye, the Ravens defense returned to it's dominant ways. We only allowed 13.1 points a game from that point onward. I would say that's pretty good so I think it's unfair to question Mattison's merit as a coach after only a few bad weeks. It was Mattison's first season as DC, he deserves some leeway. [b]Rex Ryan's first season as DC, in 2005, the Ravens were the 5th best defensive unit in the league and allowed 299 points, almost 40 more than the 2009 Ravens.[/b] Just a little patience can pay off, Mattison is a good coach.
[/quote]

In fact, that's really amazing when you consider that 11 quarterbacks passed for over 4000 yds in 2009, an NFL record. More passing should equal more points, but it didn't. Why? GOOD COACHING. On top of that, Ryan's defenses were all plagued with the same deficiencies that Mattison's was when it came to PEYTON MANNING, ya know, debatably the best quarterback in NFL history... but let's ignore that fact. If you can't get behind how stupid Mattison made New England look in that playoff game then you're really not a Ravens fan cuz, you're just a Rex Ryan fan. Put on the Green and White and hop on over to the Jets boards.

We got Mattison. He's good. The jury is still out on whether or not he's great, but the outlook is promising.

But seriously, chill with the sour grapes about Rex. He's gone, we wish him well, and it's time to move on.

[Militant X 1]

i like the 3-4

[Bltravens]

[quote name='rastaman831226' date='04 April 2010 - 04:33 PM' timestamp='1270420418' post='386455']
That was an undeserved swipe at Rex Ryan. A former Raven coach who, like many other former Ravens, contributed mightily to the Ravens' cause. He should be applauded for his years here. As to your stats ? That only serve to bolster what is absolutely obvious- Rex's exotic 2008 Organized Chaos defense was better than Gregg Mattison's 2009 Mayonnaise base 4/3 defense in every important statistical category. From Total Points, Total Yards. Total TD's to Passing Com. to Yards Allowed. There's no question Mattison's defense underperformed the standard Rex set the previous year in 2008. The real question here is Mattison's competence to run this great defense. Many like to recall the Playoff game in N.E., but my last remembrance of last season was the confused, out of sync, and outcoached Mattison defense not showing anything new the next game against the Colts. Someday Mattison may evolve into a decent coach someday, but can you put your faith in a coach who changed a dominate and fundamentally sound blitzing 3/4 defense switch to a 4/3 base alignment with little or no blitzing then take 1/2 a season to realize his mistake and 3/4 of the season to switch back to disguising angled blitzes- a tactic his personnel had perfected under Rex Ryan?
[/quote]
Really, the same Mattison led defense that allowed 20 points to Manning, 14 some odd points less than Rex's led defense? Also if Mattison failed to live up to Rex's standards, god only knows how miserably past coordinators failed to live up to Marvins defense.

[berad]

Yeah, I really do not understand how I'm taking a 'swipe' at Ryan... He was a good coach, yes, but he wasn't perfect, no coach is. Mattison underperformed in 2009, sure, but I'm willing to give him the benefit of doubt due to both his illustrious coaching career and his strong improvement towards the latter part of the season.

[flynismo]

The Mattison bashing is played out. Our defense only had 3, maybe 4 bad outings all year (and that was against elite offenses), and was absolutely dominant the entire second half.
This year will be his defining year now that the inevitable kinks of a new system has been ironed out. But I'm happy with a lot of what I've seen so far from him. You guys need to remember that its up to our players to execute, and to play more discplined.

Matty's our man, and it's going to be that way for as long as he wants it to be. Which I think is a good thing. Bravado and exotic formations may be more exciting, but not necessarily better.

[rastaman831226]

[quote name='berad' date='05 April 2010 - 12:30 AM' timestamp='1270441830' post='386632']
Yeah, I really do not understand how I'm taking a 'swipe' at Ryan... He was a good coach, yes, but he wasn't perfect, no coach is. Mattison underperformed in 2009, sure, but I'm willing to give him the benefit of doubt due to both his illustrious coaching career and his strong improvement towards the latter part of the season.
[/quote]

Your bad attempt at sarcasm was duly noted. And to even hint that Rex Ryan, Marvin Lewis, or Mike Nolan ( well, Nolan not so much ) were not great DC's by NFL and Raven standards is ludicrous. Suffice to say you misspoke. As to " ..strong improvement towards the latter part of the season.", good performances against the flea bags of the NFL ( Det.,Chi.,and Oak. ) sprinkled in among bad showings against over 500. teams ( GB., Pitts. ) does not make for " .. a strong improvement towards the latter part of the season." It makes for a subpar overall performance. Again, the best and most immediate hope for the Ravens is having Dan Pees. former N.E. DC and now Ravens LB coach play a major role in defining the 3/4 defense this coming season

[rastaman831226]

[quote name='flynismo' date='05 April 2010 - 01:02 AM' timestamp='1270443741' post='386651']
The Mattison bashing is played out. Our defense only had 3, maybe 4 bad outings all year (and that was against elite offenses), and was absolutely dominant the entire second half.
This year will be his defining year now that the inevitable kinks of a new system has been ironed out. But I'm happy with a lot of what I've seen so far from him. You guys need to remember that its up to our players to execute, and to play more discplined.

Matty's our man, and it's going to be that way for as long as he wants it to be. Which I think is a good thing. Bravado and exotic formations may be more exciting, but not necessarily better.
[/quote]


It ain't bashing if it's true. New system? What games were you watching? Mattison's defense only improved when he reinstalled some of the disguised blitz packages from the Rex Ryan's old playbook. Something he should have done at the very beginning of the season instead of stubbornly insisting that the front 4 in his 4/3 alignment could supply the necessary pressure to contain opponent's passing game. This serious miscalculation possibly cost the Ravens a few wins and a choice playoff slot. Mattison bashing? He earned it.

[Ravensfan23]

Imo, its just unfair to base an opinion on Mattison's abilities based on what happened against the Colts.

Peyton Manning is the best QB in the game and he rans that offense like a well oiled machine.

The best defense for the Colts is a good offense, which the Ravens didn't have in that playoff game.

The Ravens defense was dominate in the first quarter and a half, they played as well as anyone could expect against the Colts. Then the Colts scored twice in like the last 2 minutes.

However, when your offense isn't helping you out on the back end, it's hard to keep pace with the Colts. We only scored 3 points and couldn't move the ball at all.

How can any defense hold the Colts to 3 points or less, when they are constantly on the field and playing on a short field at that.

If you ever hold the Colts to 20 points or less it should be enough to beat them.

Mattison was not and is not a problem for us. If you really want to point the finger at anyone, point it at Cam Cameron(not saying Cam is a Problem). Regardless if the defense finished a hard or soft number 3(still don't understand how that makes sense) they still finished at the top of the league and got the job done. It was Cam's offense that couldn't come through when needed.

So I guess if the defense finished a soft #3, then the offense was in marsh mellow form towards the end of the season?

[flynismo]

[quote name='rastaman831226' date='05 April 2010 - 10:25 AM' timestamp='1270481121' post='386745']
It ain't bashing if it's true. New system? What games were you watching? Mattison's defense only improved when he reinstalled some of the disguised blitz packages from the Rex Ryan's old playbook. Something he should have done at the very beginning of the season instead of stubbornly insisting that the front 4 in his 4/3 alignment could supply the necessary pressure to contain opponent's passing game. This serious miscalculation possibly cost the Ravens a few wins and a choice playoff slot. Mattison bashing? He earned it.
[/quote]

Whats true? The fact that we only had a handful of poor performances, among quite a few dominating ones? The truth is that our defense finished in the top 3, so what is there to complain about?

As someone else already pointed out, our inconsistent pass game is what cost us several W's.

I'm sure the Matty bashing will continue, simply because Rex was so popular with the fans and players both, but I'm more than satisfied with what I've seen.

[XxSizzleXx]

game,set....match.