Any Good From Losing Bannan, Edwards?

[organizedchaos007]

I believe 2 good things come out of this... even tho there is considerable bad... atleast for now.

The first being, the way free agency has been for us so far (i do expect us to have some signings in the future, if not after the draft, when more players from other teams begin to get cut)... so far, we are most likely getting some decent compensatory picks next year.

Second thing is, if Ozzie didnt have a plan to either bring in some FA linemen, or have a plan of filling holes through this deep draft... he wouldnt have let them go. So i'm looking forward to seeing which route he takes.

If we can fill these holes with young/cheap guys , and them have similar production in the rotation, ... then we win. And can allocate the money we would have had to pay Bannan and Edwards... elsewhere

Whats everyone else thinking?

[theFRANCHISE]

Well, as much as I loved both guys for the way they played, they were getting up there in age. The defensive line needed to be replenished with youth anyway so now's as good a time as any, especially with veteran stalwarts like Trevor Pryce and Kelly Gregg still around to tutor them as well as a young veteran in Haloti Ngata.

[organizedchaos007]

[quote name='theFRANCHISE' date='17 March 2010 - 08:53 AM' timestamp='1268833988' post='378219']
Well, as much as I loved both guys for the way they played, they were getting up there in age. The defensive line needed to be replenished with youth anyway so now's as good a time as any, especially with veteran stalwarts like Trevor Pryce and Kelly Gregg still around to tutor them as well as a young veteran in Haloti Ngata.
[/quote]
yea thats pretty much how i feel about it, we need some good young talent implemented into the team.

Nice sig btw!

[Shammy]

[quote name='organizedchaos007' date='17 March 2010 - 09:42 AM' timestamp='1268833362' post='378213']
I believe 2 good things come out of this... even tho there is considerable bad... atleast for now.

The first being, the way free agency has been for us so far (i do expect us to have some signings in the future, if not after the draft, when more players from other teams begin to get cut)... so far, we are most likely getting some decent compensatory picks next year.

Second thing is, if Ozzie didnt have a plan to either bring in some FA linemen, or have a plan of filling holes through this deep draft... he wouldnt have let them go. So i'm looking forward to seeing which route he takes.

If we can fill these holes with young/cheap guys , and them have similar production in the rotation, ... then we win. And can allocate the money we would have had to pay Bannan and Edwards... elsewhere

Whats everyone else thinking?
[/quote]


i also think oz will bring in some decent guys for the line ... they Don't need to be pro bowlers just well rounded hard workin players

[organizedchaos007]

[quote name='Shammy' date='17 March 2010 - 08:58 AM' timestamp='1268834297' post='378228']
i also think oz will bring in some decent guys for the line ... they Don't need to be pro bowlers just well rounded hard workin players
[/quote]

They are cheaper to ... as long as sizzle can step up alittle, and add one or two pass rushers/situational pass rushers in the mix, and get some thick run stuffers for our rotation, we'll be aight.

[jj2020]

Kind of hate to see Bannan go he was never a super star but always reliable. No worries we have solid starters Nagta, Pryce, and Gregg. I think that is what the next area that is being looked at to beef up "D" Line or CB? Hey who is K. Talayou looked at his profile and he is one scary looking dude.

[Shammy]

guys like Grant from N.O. Johnny Jolly From GB Marcus Spears From Dallas both are in there late 20's and played with top ranked defenses

[organizedchaos007]

[quote name='jj2020' date='17 March 2010 - 09:13 AM' timestamp='1268835181' post='378244']
Kind of hate to see Bannan go he was never a super star but always reliable. No worries we have solid starters Nagta, Pryce, and Gregg. I think that is what the next area that is being looked at to beef up "D" Line or CB? Hey who is K. Talayou looked at his profile and he is one scary looking dude.
[/quote]

Kelly Talavou is big and will definately prob be the most productive out of the 3 backups. I think he has more of an upside then divens and mckinney.

[jj2020]

[quote name='organizedchaos007' date='17 March 2010 - 11:17 PM' timestamp='1268835441' post='378250']
Kelly Talavou is big and will definately prob be the most productive out of the 3 backups. I think he has more of an upside then divens and mckinney.
[/quote]


Thanks

[Ravensfan23]

Well the first thing we must understand is that, as a 4-3 defense you have to rely more on your Dline and our Dline just didn't get the job done last year. So in most cases, in order to added new players who you hope can do a better job, you have to be willing to part with other players.

As hard as both Bannan and Wiggles played for us, neither guy was a huge part of our defensive success. Did they help? Of course, but neither guy was like a Goose or Mac or Burnett or Pete Bo.

The Ravens could get just as much production from a few draft picks as well as some of the young guys already here, for much less then they would have paid both guys to stay.

Also let's remember, most Ravens fans were screaming that Dawan was a bust for a long time. He's a guy that has played out of position here imo. He should be a DT in a 4-3, not a DE.

However when I read some of his comments, it seems like he wants to play in a 3-4 defense and also be a part of a team were he can shine more. Well if that is what Edwards is looking for then Baltimore is not the place for him.

As I've said before the Ravens struggled imo because the lack of personnel to successfully run the 4-3. Not bringing guys like Bannan and Edwards back is the first step to being able to bring in the guys that Mattison needs.

[organizedchaos007]

However when I read some of his comments, it seems like he wants to play in a 3-4 defense and also be a part of a team were he can shine more. Well if that is what Edwards is looking for then Baltimore is not the place for him.

As I've said before the Ravens struggled imo because the lack of personnel to successfully run the 4-3. Not bringing guys like Bannan and Edwards back is the first step to being able to bring in the guys that Mattison needs.







I agree totally with that Ravensfan23. I wish him the best of luck tho

[J-man]

The only good that may come from this is that now we definitely need to go get a D-Lineman, something I wanted them to do all along.

[justifythegame]

I dont think Dwan Edwards was ever a good player. He was a 2nd round bust who was a good [i]bench[/i] player. We really gave him every chance to show us something after drafting him, we even gave him a 1 yr deal one more time just to see if he is worth anything because we invested a 2nd rounder in him. Bannan on the other hand is what really confuses me, because this guy has shown that he is a starting caliber player when he was on the field. When gregg mattison came in, he didn't give bannan playing time. he even benched trevor pryce for dwan edwards at one point, when pryce was leading our team in sacks. Now i don't know all the reasoning behind the things that went on in regards to the DL last year, but perphaps since Pryce is really up there in age now, fatigue played a factor.

I suppose there is no sense in keeping Bannan around if mattison wasn't going to play him, and i really wasn't a fan of Edwards anyway. I think we will go DL in the first round this year, and if we do i will be ecstatic. Nothing better than building your team in the trenches like we have been doing the last couple drafts. If we can replenish that DL, then our LBs and DBs will be able to make more plays. We didn't get the same Kelly Gregg back after his surgery, for some reason Mattison doesnt put Haloti Ngata on the field every down anymore (or Pryce). Edwards wasn't getting the job done in their places so imo a DT/DE (maybe more than one) needs to be addressed through the draft. I don't think we need to bring in anymore 30 year olds from FA either.

[RavensAllTheWay]

[quote name='organizedchaos007' date='17 March 2010 - 09:42 AM' timestamp='1268833362' post='378213']
I believe 2 good things come out of this... even tho there is considerable bad... atleast for now.

The first being, the way free agency has been for us so far (i do expect us to have some signings in the future, if not after the draft, when more players from other teams begin to get cut)... so far, we are most likely getting some decent compensatory picks next year.

Second thing is, if Ozzie didnt have a plan to either bring in some FA linemen, or have a plan of filling holes through this deep draft... he wouldnt have let them go. So i'm looking forward to seeing which route he takes.

If we can fill these holes with young/cheap guys , and them have similar production in the rotation, ... then we win. And can allocate the money we would have had to pay Bannan and Edwards... elsewhere

Whats everyone else thinking?
[/quote]
I still want us to sign Greg Ellis and hopefully not have to pay him too much. I believe him and Ngata together can get a really good push up front.

[AlaskanRavensFan]

Edwards and Bannan were both pretty solid backups. Bannan though, was the more consistent of the two. Edwards seemed to be coming on, but he never really lived up to the 2nd round pick that was used on him. As a few other's have mentioned, our transition to a 4-3 base alignment calls for some changes in personnel. I have seen some people calling for a DT in the first round. I wouldn't be totally against it, but it would seem like we have sufficient depth at that position right now. Consider that for two posiitions on the line we have: Ngata, Gregg, Pryce (could play LE as well), Divens, McKinney, and Talavou. That's 6 DT's for two spots, so that is plenty of depth at the position for this season especially if we are in fact going to run a base 4-3. Granted Gregg and Pryce may not be here next year, so a DT would make sense for the future.

Honestly, I thought Bannan would go but that Edwards would end up back with us and play the 3 technique ala Warren Sapp. Don't freak out I'm not comparing them just mentioning that it's the same position. I figured Dwan would move inside rather than being a 5 tech (3-4 DE). I think we will be alright with the DT's we have now and that Kruger and JJ can move back to the line, where they started. (JJ was drafted as a DT, but played RE in 2005 when we were running a 4-3 much of the time) Kruger played RE at Utah and is better suited there since he's not a great player in space/coverage.

This would put Suggs as a rush linebacker who is really a 3-4 OLB, similar to Boulware, and allow Ellerbe/Gooden to play the Weak side backer.

[JEEPercreepermd]

I really think people are making way too much out of Edwards signing with the Bills. The guy was a backup, plain and simple. With the uncapped year approaching, money was not the issue. If Ozzie wanted him, he would have kept him.

IMO this only means that there IS a plan in place to draft a pass rusher, OR make a play on one either via FA or Trade.

Also, I don't see where people are saying that he was just starting to be an impact player.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='RavensAllTheWay' date='17 March 2010 - 08:34 PM' timestamp='1268872469' post='378752']
I still want us to sign Greg Ellis and hopefully not have to pay him too much. I believe him and Ngata together can get a really good push up front.
[/quote]

Isn't Ellis as old as Pryce? The Ravens need youth on D, not more bands-aids.

[BigDinBal]

[quote name='justifythegame' date='17 March 2010 - 07:00 PM' timestamp='1268870416' post='378740']
I dont think Dwan Edwards was ever a good player. He was a 2nd round bust who was a good [i]bench[/i] player. We really gave him every chance to show us something after drafting him, we even gave him a 1 yr deal one more time just to see if he is worth anything because we invested a 2nd rounder in him. Bannan on the other hand is what really confuses me, because this guy has shown that he is a starting caliber player when he was on the field. When gregg mattison came in, he didn't give bannan playing time. he even benched trevor pryce for dwan edwards at one point, when pryce was leading our team in sacks. Now i don't know all the reasoning behind the things that went on in regards to the DL last year, but perphaps since Pryce is really up there in age now, fatigue played a factor.

I suppose there is no sense in keeping Bannan around if mattison wasn't going to play him, and i really wasn't a fan of Edwards anyway. I think we will go DL in the first round this year, and if we do i will be ecstatic. Nothing better than building your team in the trenches like we have been doing the last couple drafts. If we can replenish that DL, then our LBs and DBs will be able to make more plays. We didn't get the same Kelly Gregg back after his surgery, for some reason Mattison doesnt put Haloti Ngata on the field every down anymore (or Pryce). Edwards wasn't getting the job done in their places so imo a DT/DE (maybe more than one) needs to be addressed through the draft. I don't think we need to bring in anymore 30 year olds from FA either.
[/quote]


"Wow" is all I can say! Not a fan of Edwards indeed? Edwards played every down at 100%! Besides Kelly Gregg you can't say that about any of the Raven D-line. The man had a motor, not for racin and gettin sacks, but for playing the game! 50 plus tackles and a work ethic that makes Ngata look like a poster child for "Driving Miss Daisy". And this is coming back from a year on the DL.. Don't you find it funny that Edwards drew more double teams then anyone on the Ravens line in 09. Didn't you wonder why the only person that got a good hit on Peyton Manning in the playoffs was Edwards..Three times? A second round bust? Unbelievable. Mark my words."Edwards will be missed!" All I hope for is that we find a player with his work ethic and determination that is a stand-up guy! Bannan will be missed too. Ozzie I hope you have a plan cause right now I a bit worried.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='BigDinBal' date='17 March 2010 - 11:07 PM' timestamp='1268888845' post='378927']
"Wow" is all I can say! Not a fan of Edwards indeed? Edwards played every down at 100%! Besides Kelly Gregg you can't say that about any of the Raven D-line. The man had a motor, not for racin and gettin sacks, but for playing the game! 50 plus tackles and a work ethic that makes Ngata look like a poster child for "Driving Miss Daisy". And this is coming back from a year on the DL.. Don't you find it funny that Edwards drew more double teams then anyone on the Ravens line in 09. Didn't you wonder why the only person that got a good hit on Peyton Manning in the playoffs was Edwards..Three times? A second round bust? Unbelievable. Mark my words."Edwards will be missed!" All I hope for is that we find a player with his work ethic and determination that is a stand-up guy! Bannan will be missed too. Ozzie I hope you have a plan cause right now I a bit worried.
[/quote]
Edwards played well at times this year, and def gave our rush D a boost when Pryce struggled holding his edge. But Edwards was a second round blunder. To think of some of the impact players you can get in the 2nd round, and Edwards couldnt even take Anthony Weaver's or Marques Douglas' spot is pretty bad for a second round pick especially considering how athletic Edwards is at 290. He should have done more in his 6 seasons here.

[Dubs]

[quote name='Bltravens' date='17 March 2010 - 11:18 PM' timestamp='1268889507' post='378931']
Edwards played well at times this year, and def gave our rush D a boost when Pryce struggled holding his edge. But Edwards was a second round blunder. To think of some of the impact players you can get in the 2nd round, and Edwards couldnt even take Anthony Weaver's or Marques Douglas' spot is pretty bad for a second round pick especially considering how athletic Edwards is at 290. He should have done more in his 6 seasons here.
[/quote]


i dont think any one will debate that he may have been disappointing previous seasons, but in 09 he was a great player and was really living up to his potential..he has all the talent, was productive with it and in a league of what have you done for me lately he has done alot..im extremely upset hes gone and was very underrated this year and think he will be hard to replace..He may have 'blundered' previously but we may the 'blunder' by letting him go when he just started really hitting his stride..However Ozzie and the Ravens always find a way of filling holes, so as worried as i am, im not..

[Guest I-70WestRaven]

While time will tell, these loses do open up the door for hungrier, younger, more talented players to step up. No right or wrong, time and desire will tell. Me, I trust Ozzie & Co. No right or wrong, yet![img]http://boards.baltimoreravens.com/public/style_emoticons/default/baltimore-ravens.gif[/img]

[-Truth-]

Mattison expects pressure from our Defensive Line, so this will be addressed in the first day of the Draft. I'm not concerned. It's just as good of a time as any to bring youth to our DL, while we still have playmakers behind them. I trust in Ozzie.

[Guest I-70WestRaven]

Are we set are are we set? You posed the question, and answed it! Ozzie has the answer and we just wait to see! Dallas? We will see! Resign Sam, he can hit that jumbo tron, if he has too!! Hint, hint!

[CustomUserName]

I am not worried about those two at all. Think about it, all we lost was depth, costly depth at that. We still have Ngata, Gregg, and Pryce (for atleast this year); those three playing the majority of snaps in '09. So in theory, we have two drafts, the rest of FA and next years FA to find their replacements, In Ozzie I trust.

I will miss Bannan though, best of luck to him in Denver. He stepped up for Gregg in 2008 when Gregg had his knee injury, and played admirably leading us to an 11-5 season and the AFC Championship Game.

[BigDinBal]

[quote name='Bltravens' date='18 March 2010 - 12:18 AM' timestamp='1268889507' post='378931']
Edwards played well at times this year, and def gave our rush D a boost when Pryce struggled holding his edge. But Edwards was a second round blunder. To think of some of the impact players you can get in the 2nd round, and Edwards couldnt even take Anthony Weaver's or Marques Douglas' spot is pretty bad for a second round pick especially considering how athletic Edwards is at 290. He should have done more in his 6 seasons here.
[/quote]

I'll agree that Edwards developed slower than some... He was not an immediate impact player, but how many are? Try this- Take a look at all the d-line players taken in the draft the same year as Edwards...Now compare there 6th year stats to those of Edwards in his fifth season playing. He didn't even get the opportunity to start until game 6 but has better numbers then most of the players in the league playing the position in the 4-3. I'll take a stand and say I think letting him go was a mistake. Now that he is gone I am praying for a player that can defend the run...In our league we need a player that can get that done!

[Jamal]

Bannan was getting old, and Edwards could easily be replaced. Although losing some solid players is never good, adding youth would make this a blessing in disguise.

[J-man]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' date='17 March 2010 - 11:00 PM' timestamp='1268881202' post='378867']
Isn't Ellis as old as Pryce? The Ravens need youth on D, not more bands-aids.
[/quote]

And old band-aids are always yucky and fall off.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='BigDinBal' date='18 March 2010 - 10:42 AM' timestamp='1268930551' post='379121']
I'll agree that Edwards developed slower than some... He was not an immediate impact player, but how many are? Try this- Take a look at all the d-line players taken in the draft the same year as Edwards...Now compare there 6th year stats to those of Edwards in his fifth season playing. He didn't even get the opportunity to start until game 6 but has better numbers then most of the players in the league playing the position in the 4-3. I'll take a stand and say I think letting him go was a mistake. Now that he is gone I am praying for a player that can defend the run...In our league we need a player that can get that done!
[/quote]
Oh ya I didnt want Edwards to go, but isnt he pulling in 5 mil a year? Hes not worth that. He was critical to our depth, of which we have zero right now which stings.

[justifythegame]

[quote name='Jamal' date='18 March 2010 - 12:52 PM' timestamp='1268931157' post='379131']
Bannan was getting old, and Edwards could easily be replaced. Although losing some solid players is never good, adding youth would make this a blessing in disguise.
[/quote]
wasnt bannan only a 8 yr pro?

[DocMartin]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' date='17 March 2010 - 10:36 AM' timestamp='1268836567' post='378269']
Well the first thing we must understand is that, as a 4-3 defense you have to rely more on your Dline and our Dline just didn't get the job done last year. So in most cases, in order to added new players who you hope can do a better job, you have to be willing to part with other players.

As hard as both Bannan and Wiggles played for us, neither guy was a huge part of our defensive success. Did they help? Of course, but neither guy was like a Goose or Mac or Burnett or Pete Bo.

The Ravens could get just as much production from a few draft picks as well as some of the young guys already here, for much less then they would have paid both guys to stay.

Also let's remember, most Ravens fans were screaming that Dawan was a bust for a long time. He's a guy that has played out of position here imo. He should be a DT in a 4-3, not a DE.

However when I read some of his comments, it seems like he wants to play in a 3-4 defense and also be a part of a team were he can shine more. Well if that is what Edwards is looking for then Baltimore is not the place for him.

As I've said before the Ravens struggled imo because the lack of personnel to successfully run the 4-3. Not bringing guys like Bannan and Edwards back is the first step to being able to bring in the guys that Mattison needs.
[/quote]
There is not enough personel at the DE position. I see you compare the 2000 Superbowl Defense, the one and only, so let's take a look:
1) we played vast majority of the time 4-3 defense
2) DT's were Adams & Goose, which was a combo that nobody could run on
now we have Gregg & Ngata, different styles, but very good
3) DE's were McCrary and Burnett, with Mac being sackmaster, Burnett more of run stopper, they complimented each other, now we have Pryce and nobody else...
We had 3 LB's now we have 4 LB's behind them. P.Boulware was kind of like Suggs, outside LB's with ability get to the QB.
The game has changed, it's more of the passing game now, so I would still play 3-4
defense for majority of snaps, but still use 4-3 scheme when needed on 1st downs.
I think we are very predictible when playing the pass rush, that's why we are not effective in getting to the QB. We need to get another McCrary to be Superbowl bound defense + another cornerback in the secondary.