How Did Troy Do?

[72Marshall]

Tom Brady couldn't go through his reads man running for his life like that. In fact Tom Brady would probably have a few broken bones getting rushed liked that with no o-line. He'd have to speed-dial his mommy to maybe find out where his chech down was. No one is overestimating troy. The numbers stand in just about the worst conditions possible. You must not have read all of my post on sunday's quarterback stats. I honestly think that Troy would have had a better shot against New England IN New England than the situation he had to deal with on sunday. Other than that Merry Christmas guys and Merry Christmas to Troy Smith and his brilliant future.

Ok, so Boller is this super qb that supposed to do what every other qb can't do? The last I checked Boller is playing behind the same line that McNair and Smith are, and I don't ever recall Boller going an entire half with only 1 first down. I also don't ever remember Boller ever giving up a safety, So what's your point?

You could possibly make an argument against Boller by using another qb on another team, which would be a stretch, but you can not make an argument against Boller by using other qb's<~~~and that's plural, that get the same results on the same team, in the same season. It's even been admitted as early as yesterday that Boller had one of his better years last year, even though it was only 5 games. So last year when the other qb is playing well and Boller plays well it's not brought up, but when the team and the other qb's are not playing well and Boller is not playing well, it's Boller hasn't played well his whole career and any other qb even a rookie can do better and get better results, even 1 first down is better then what Boller could do.

Am I getting this right? Because that sounds about as absurd as anything I've ever heard, I would even go as far to say that anyone that believes that would not only be DREAMING, but a liar too.

Though I quoted one post, this post is in response to several other post....sorry for the confusion.

[Guest Birdfan]

Thank you for taking the time to remind us all that Boller's results tend to parallel what ANY other QB does in this offense. Remember the Wright-Boller year? Same thing.

[72Marshall]

Thank you for taking the time to remind us all that Boller's results tend to parallel what ANY other QB does in this offense. Remember the Wright-Boller year? Same thing.

So your saying that Tom Brady would be 15-0 with this offense around him?

All I'm saying is Boller has never had a great team around him to be a consistent qb, he's got as much out of it as any other qb has or could. Give him protection with the same talent we have now and we would be looking at the playoffs today. Maybe not the first seed but definitely a playoff spot. Boller is not the problem and Troy isn't a huge upgrade.

[saved72907]

So your saying that Tom Brady would be 15-0 with this offense around him?

All I'm saying is Boller has never had a great team around him to be a consistent qb, he's got as much out of it as any other qb has or could. Give him protection with the same talent we have now and we would be looking at the playoffs today. Maybe not the first seed but definitely a playoff spot. Boller is not the problem and Troy isn't a huge upgrade.

Boller rocks! I'm saying give him a good O-line, and some better play calling to work with and all these blind people would see it.

[noy]

So your saying that Tom Brady would be 15-0 with this offense around him?

All I'm saying is Boller has never had a great team around him to be a consistent qb, he's got as much out of it as any other qb has or could. Give him protection with the same talent we have now and we would be looking at the playoffs today. Maybe not the first seed but definitely a playoff spot. Boller is not the problem and Troy isn't a huge upgrade.

considering that Smith is a rookie and Boller has had 5 years as a pro..I'd be inclined to disagree. Even if Smith is doing the same things as Boller, he's started at the same level Boller has 5 YEARS into the pro's.

btw I'm not anti-Boller, when Boller is good, he is GOOD. But more often than not, he makes terrible...terrible decisions.

for example, if Smith played our game against the Pats, I'm gonna have to say that we would have gotten raped. Boller decided to be nasty that day, up until that huge int.

[Raven07]

id say Troy passing for 199 yards and a 79 TD to Derrick Mason....while making the smart decisions to better his development and his team (overall)....and aviod those costly turnovers...shows just how much he is indeed coming along from the beginning until now....and into the future

[The_Farm]

You know... all this talk about Boller and Smith is making me think about one play in particular. This one play just shows the difference (in my mind) between the two. I just can't seem to remember what team we were playing against (hehe).

When the pressure came earlier in the year, Boller was being sacked, while in the red zone, and threw the ball in the air... HUGE air time... the other team picked it off (of course) and ran it back for a td... It was literally the worst play I've ever seen in my life--the hellishness was only enhanced because the drive that got us to the red zone was amazing, really exciting. Poor, POOR decision. Rather than take the sack for a loss, allowing us to at least put up 3 points, he threw it up for a debilitating opposing TD.

I just don't see Smith doing that sort of thing. He scrambles for a gain or throws it away. His basic decision making on the field seems superior.

With that said, I still think that Smith needs more time practicing to make the plays/motions more habit-like (notice how during handoffs, he holds ball out for an inordinate amount of time?). Mainly, his fundamentals and field sense are more on-point than what I've seen from Boller.

This distinction may be why the team is rallying behind Smith... They don't have the expectation that a bad decision is going to be made that will destroy the momentum they build during a game. With Boller it's like: "Oh God, don't screw this up," and with Smith: "Go get 'em!"

Destroying the momentum could definitely be effecting the O-Line as well. Why would you go out a bust your a** trying to protect a guy that's just going to erase all your hard work? Wouldn't you rally behind someone who will compliment your hard work by working just as hard?

Just my two cents...

_The_Farm_

[#1 D]

You know... all this talk about Boller and Smith is making me think about one play in particular. This one play just shows the difference (in my mind) between the two. I just can't seem to remember what team we were playing against (hehe).

When the pressure came earlier in the year, Boller was being sacked, while in the red zone, and threw the ball in the air... HUGE air time... the other team picked it off (of course) and ran it back for a td... It was literally the worst play I've ever seen in my life--the hellishness was only enhanced because the drive that got us to the red zone was amazing, really exciting. Poor, POOR decision. Rather than take the sack for a loss, allowing us to at least put up 3 points, he threw it up for a debilitating opposing TD.

I just don't see Smith doing that sort of thing. He scrambles for a gain or throws it away. His basic decision making on the field seems superior.

With that said, I still think that Smith needs more time practicing to make the plays/motions more habit-like (notice how during handoffs, he holds ball out for an inordinate amount of time?). Mainly, his fundamentals and field sense are more on-point than what I've seen from Boller.

This distinction may be why the team is rallying behind Smith... They don't have the expectation that a bad decision is going to be made that will destroy the momentum they build during a game. With Boller it's like: "Oh God, don't screw this up," and with Smith: "Go get 'em!"

Destroying the momentum could definitely be effecting the O-Line as well. Why would you go out a bust your a** trying to protect a guy that's just going to erase all your hard work? Wouldn't you rally behind someone who will compliment your hard work by working just as hard?

Just my two cents...

_The_Farm_

Good points, how can the OL be playing at their highest level when a quarterback doesn't make good playcalls? I mean they would be less enthusiastic about trying to protect the quarterback, so they wont play up to their level. Its like, "here we go again..." for them. But I have to admit, that one pass he made was not really his fault, him, being the tough-guy he is, tried to get the pass in before time ran out. Not his fault really. And Clayton, the intended reciever, should've made an effort at least to bat the ball down or something. Usually boller makes horrible decisions, but lately, he's been OK. but still, not the consistancy to be a starter from where I see it.

[72Marshall]

You know... all this talk about Boller and Smith is making me think about one play in particular. This one play just shows the difference (in my mind) between the two. I just can't seem to remember what team we were playing against (hehe).

When the pressure came earlier in the year, Boller was being sacked, while in the red zone, and threw the ball in the air... HUGE air time... the other team picked it off (of course) and ran it back for a td... It was literally the worst play I've ever seen in my life--the hellishness was only enhanced because the drive that got us to the red zone was amazing, really exciting. Poor, POOR decision. Rather than take the sack for a loss, allowing us to at least put up 3 points, he threw it up for a debilitating opposing TD.

I just don't see Smith doing that sort of thing. He scrambles for a gain or throws it away. His basic decision making on the field seems superior.

With that said, I still think that Smith needs more time practicing to make the plays/motions more habit-like (notice how during handoffs, he holds ball out for an inordinate amount of time?). Mainly, his fundamentals and field sense are more on-point than what I've seen from Boller.

This distinction may be why the team is rallying behind Smith... They don't have the expectation that a bad decision is going to be made that will destroy the momentum they build during a game. With Boller it's like: "Oh God, don't screw this up," and with Smith: "Go get 'em!"

Destroying the momentum could definitely be effecting the O-Line as well. Why would you go out a bust your a** trying to protect a guy that's just going to erase all your hard work? Wouldn't you rally behind someone who will compliment your hard work by working just as hard?

Just my two cents...

_The_Farm_

I understand the point your trying to make but Troy did make some bad decisions in Miami and Seattle that almost ended up and int for a td, at least the one in Miami would have been a td, the difference between Troy's and the one you referred to that boller threw was the ball was dropped, but it was thrown right to the defense. BTW the game was against Cleveland, I was there.

[Raven07]

and in which why he said he;s not looking to impress anyone, or anything of that nature...he's just trying to further is development along so that when the team really needs him...he can come through for them.

[The_Farm]

True, he did make some bad decisions... Maybe the fact that the defenses he's played against haven't capitalized on his mistakes makes the mistakes less noticeable. He did make some poor throws, but he didn't throw it up like a kickoff in a backyard game... I guess time will be the true test whether or not Troy can consistently avoid making poor decisions and poor plays. So far, he hasn't made any drastic mistakes, which is more than I can say about Boller, but, like I said, time will tell...

I am excited to see a new face behind center, but I also don't want to get my hopes up, which is easy to do when you have a calm, collected player come in when you're used to seeing a spaz back there.

I also want to say that I'm not here to bash Boller or anything. When he does well, he does well. I'm simply making a comparison of the output I've seen so far. If Boller comes out and has a consistent season, I will have more faith in his abilities and will definitely rally behind him, but so far his performance has been dissappointing because he seems to collapse when the team needs him the most.

It's Boller's responsibility to make people confident in his capabilities, and, the way the draft predictions look, he may have run out of time.

_The_Farm_

[Raven07]

in order to become a better all-round quarterback and ultimately help his team out in the long run. He must first learn from his past mistakes and build off of the experience's and ultilize them to their fullest potential that they can be used....All bad experience's can be used in a fashion/way in order to better one's individual play and overall experience.

I think all of us are at least a little bit excited about the kind of thing's we've been seeing come from Troy thus far and we are beginning to see just how much the abilities we drafted him for. are taking effect on the team...

Agreed, noone on this board should be here on the note/reason of Lowering/degrading an individual player especially when they are on the same side as us. and Your right when he plays well, he plays well, when he doesnt, he doesnt...its esentially like a Roller Coaster Ride (if you will) with his overall consistancy....and we have been willing to wait for Boller to straighten out, but now the time has come to turn in a New Direction under helm with Troy because he seems to be the guy we've been after since becoming a Franchise in '96. and he has continued to get better and better as time goes on and has demonstrated the type of "Threat" that he can become given the opportunity to let his fullest Potential and Skill show through.

[72Marshall]

True, he did make some bad decisions... Maybe the fact that the defenses he's played against haven't capitalized on his mistakes makes the mistakes less noticeable. He did make some poor throws, but he didn't throw it up like a kickoff in a backyard game... I guess time will be the true test whether or not Troy can consistently avoid making poor decisions and poor plays. So far, he hasn't made any drastic mistakes, which is more than I can say about Boller, but, like I said, time will tell...

I am excited to see a new face behind center, but I also don't want to get my hopes up, which is easy to do when you have a calm, collected player come in when you're used to seeing a spaz back there.

I also want to say that I'm not here to bash Boller or anything. When he does well, he does well. I'm simply making a comparison of the output I've seen so far. If Boller comes out and has a consistent season, I will have more faith in his abilities and will definitely rally behind him, but so far his performance has been dissappointing because he seems to collapse when the team needs him the most.

It's Boller's responsibility to make people confident in his capabilities, and, the way the draft predictions look, he may have run out of time.

_The_Farm_

Like I've said in other posts, I'm not a Troy hater and I want to see the kid succeed, but a former MVP/Superbowl qb (McNair) had his worst year as a qb this year. When Boller was the starter he didn't have nearly the talent McNair had last year, so in my opinion saying that Boller hasn't lived up to expectations isn't fair to him. If you go back and look at Boller history it's not bad at all. 5-3 before he got hurt in his first season, 9-7 in his second season with possibly the least amount of offensive talent this team has ever had. 2005 he got hurt on the first series when our classless fans cheered and returned midway through the season after Anthony Wright had us in a 2 - 6 hole and went 4 - 4 the rest of the way. If you'll remember in 2004 we would have made the playoffs but our defense allowed the Bengals to score 24 4th quarter points to win the game, we was winning 26 to 3 and lost 27 - 26, we would have been 10 - 6 going into the playoffs.

I hate to remind you all of this cause I know a lot of you want to blame Boller for everything, but in his career he's done as well as anyone could have.

[Troy Smith IS the future..]

Like I've said in other posts, I'm not a Troy hater and I want to see the kid succeed, but a former MVP/Superbowl qb (McNair) had his worst year as a qb this year. When Boller was the starter he didn't have nearly the talent McNair had last year, so in my opinion saying that Boller hasn't lived up to expectations isn't fair to him. If you go back and look at Boller history it's not bad at all. 5-3 before he got hurt in his first season, 9-7 in his second season with possibly the least amount of offensive talent this team has ever had. 2005 he got hurt on the first series when our classless fans cheered and returned midway through the season after Anthony Wright had us in a 2 - 6 hole and went 4 - 4 the rest of the way. If you'll remember in 2004 we would have made the playoffs but our defense allowed the Bengals to score 24 4th quarter points to win the game, we was winning 26 to 3 and lost 27 - 26, we would have been 10 - 6 going into the playoffs.

I hate to remind you all of this cause I know a lot of you want to blame Boller for everything, but in his career he's done as well as anyone could have.

Your right, i said in another thread that his track record isnt bad at all, but he was drafted to be the future of this team...but where has this team gone? He's had 5 years to get his act together and be the 1st rounder we drafted him to be. Simply put, he just hasn't panned out. Time to give someone else a try, Boller will be a good backup though for another franchise. Imo, after 5 years of experience, if a quarterback hasn't topped out or reached his full potential, first, it would be shocking for the qb to finally click after 5 years, and second, its a bust.

[The_Farm]

Like I've said in other posts, I'm not a Troy hater and I want to see the kid succeed, but a former MVP/Superbowl qb (McNair) had his worst year as a qb this year. When Boller was the starter he didn't have nearly the talent McNair had last year, so in my opinion saying that Boller hasn't lived up to expectations isn't fair to him. If you go back and look at Boller history it's not bad at all. 5-3 before he got hurt in his first season, 9-7 in his second season with possibly the least amount of offensive talent this team has ever had. 2005 he got hurt on the first series when our classless fans cheered and returned midway through the season after Anthony Wright had us in a 2 - 6 hole and went 4 - 4 the rest of the way. If you'll remember in 2004 we would have made the playoffs but our defense allowed the Bengals to score 24 4th quarter points to win the game, we was winning 26 to 3 and lost 27 - 26, we would have been 10 - 6 going into the playoffs.

I hate to remind you all of this cause I know a lot of you want to blame Boller for everything, but in his career he's done as well as anyone could have.

McNair - How many games this year was he healthy, though? Injuries definitely played a role in his poor performance this year. Staying healthy is another issue, but when he is healthy, he does great. (he lead us to a great season last year, healthy.)

Boller - Not fair? Any quarterback that plays PROFESSIONAL football should be expected to have a knowledge of the game and to make good decisions. He may work hard and he may be persistent (i'm guessing he puts in effort at practice), but those are not the only qualities a QB needs to have. I agree that cheering when he is hurt is classless (hate 'boo'ing too-- cheer when good, shut up when bad). The reason I hate the boo'ing is that the fans need to contribute to confidence and momentum, and that is the least likely way to do so. I really don't have the stats to support it, but it really seems that Boller's mistakes are usually pretty catastrophic. He doesn't have the off-throws, a bad day here and there. He has numerous interceptions at a HORRIBLE time in the game. He has a fumble when it breaks the team. His timing with his poor plays is probably the thing that makes so many Ravens fans cringe when we have to count on him in a tough situation. It's like he crumbles under pressure (and I'm not talking about the blitz).

Football's a team sport, I understand, and this season and previous losses are in no way fully attributable to Boller himself. He plays an integral position, though.

[72Marshall]

McNair - How many games this year was he healthy, though? Injuries definitely played a role in his poor performance this year. Staying healthy is another issue, but when he is healthy, he does great. (he lead us to a great season last year, healthy.)

Boller - Not fair? Any quarterback that plays PROFESSIONAL football should be expected to have a knowledge of the game and to make good decisions. He may work hard and he may be persistent (i'm guessing he puts in effort at practice), but those are not the only qualities a QB needs to have. I agree that cheering when he is hurt is classless (hate 'boo'ing too-- cheer when good, shut up when bad). The reason I hate the boo'ing is that the fans need to contribute to confidence and momentum, and that is the least likely way to do so. I really don't have the stats to support it, but it really seems that Boller's mistakes are usually pretty catastrophic. He doesn't have the off-throws, a bad day here and there. He has numerous interceptions at a HORRIBLE time in the game. He has a fumble when it breaks the team. His timing with his poor plays is probably the thing that makes so many Ravens fans cringe when we have to count on him in a tough situation. It's like he crumbles under pressure (and I'm not talking about the blitz).

Football's a team sport, I understand, and this season and previous losses are in no way fully attributable to Boller himself. He plays an integral position, though.

I've seen every qb from Manning to Brady to Grbac to Cunningham to McNair have horrible int's, fumbles, three and out's etc. etc. Boller needs protection and I'm not saying the whole game, but when he's played bad he's been running for his life. The int that was returned for a td against the Browns was a blown protection, the guy came straight up the middle untouched, Boller should have taken the sack that was a mistake on his part, but when it's an excuse for other qb's then it's an excuse for Boller as well.

And I've never seen him crumble under pressure, the one thing that no one can say about Boller is he crumbles under pressure. The guy has been under pressure since he's put on Ravens uniform and he just keeps coming back, and to say he's had 5 years is inaccurate. He had 8 1/2 games his rookie year, 16 games his second year, and 9 games his third year. His fourth year he was the backup and as far as I can remember he never went into a game as the starter, he always replaced McNair so he never got the benefit of practicing with the starters. This year the whole team has been playing bad, and that's with McNair as the starter. You can not objectively look at Bollers career and call him a bust or even the main problem, the offense has been inconsistent across the board since Testaverde was cut.

[Troy Smith IS the future..]

I've seen every qb from Manning to Brady to Grbac to Cunningham to McNair have horrible int's, fumbles, three and out's etc. etc. Boller needs protection and I'm not saying the whole game, but when he's played bad he's been running for his life. The int that was returned for a td against the Browns was a blown protection, the guy came straight up the middle untouched, Boller should have taken the sack that was a mistake on his part, but when it's an excuse for other qb's then it's an excuse for Boller as well.

And I've never seen him crumble under pressure, the one thing that no one can say about Boller is he crumbles under pressure. The guy has been under pressure since he's put on Ravens uniform and he just keeps coming back, and to say he's had 5 years is inaccurate. He had 8 1/2 games his rookie year, 16 games his second year, and 9 games his third year. His fourth year he was the backup and as far as I can remember he never went into a game as the starter, he always replaced McNair so he never got the benefit of practicing with the starters. This year the whole team has been playing bad, and that's with McNair as the starter. You can not objectively look at Bollers career and call him a bust or even the main problem, the offense has been inconsistent across the board since Testaverde was cut.

Alot of good points, he's not all that bad, he's just a bad desicion maker. What could have been if he hadn't heaved that 3rd quarter interception while in patriot territory that fateful game...he does tighten under pressure, not all the time of coarse, that night the pressure was on, and he folded like a lawnchair. It's the forcing of the ball that gets him in deep water. From what I've seen Troy doesnt't force it, that much. I say that much because every quarterback forces a few times here and there, but when It's crunchtime when you have the lead and one of the top five halfbacks in the league, you don't force it. If you do force it, never lob it for the picking. Unfortunately for Boller, that's the most glaring problem in his game. Other than the scrabling ability of coarse. I'll say when he's got pretection, hes in the upper half of the league when it comes to starting quarterbacks, again, unfortunatley thats a problem the Ravens have to address, and it's no quick fix, put somebody back there with wheels atleast...thats all I'm tryin to say.

[BollerFan23]

Let's all remember that Troy has somethings that Kyle never had--someone to learn from and the opportunity to start when it doesn't really matter. Kyle had the weight of the whole team on his shoulders when he made his first start as a rookie, and no one to mentor or teach him. Troy got to come in and start at the end of a season that was already over. With no chance of making the playoffs, a loss isn't the end of the world. Also, Troy got to spend this season watching and learning from Kyle and McNair, something Kyle never had. For Kyle's sake, I hope he leaves Baltimore and goes to a team where his skills can be utilized and he will actually be supported by his fans. Then Troy can start and everyone will know for sure whether it's the QBs or the O-line/receivers/play-calling/rest of the team and coaching that might be the problem.

[Raven07]

Troy has a few things that Boller doesnt have and therefore he is able to execute them better and use the entire offense to the best of his abilities. and almost always end the play with positive yardage for us......plus he has continued to show those signs of why we drafted him on a CONSISTANT basis. and that Bullet Touchdown pass to the Reciever was one of the best i've seen.....so just give him a little more time and you can see the type of player in which plays hard, motivates, is a leader, moves the ball and keeps at it no matter what....