Boldin/Marshall

[Alexir]

According to rotoworld.com and Mike Lombardi, The Arizona Cardinals are only asking for a 3RD ROUND PICK for WR Anquan Boldin. As we already know, Brandon Marshall is on the market for a 1ST ROUND PICK.

I was very skeptical that we could land either one of these guys but I really think one of these guys (if not both [img]http://boards.baltimoreravens.com/public/style_emoticons/default/borg_assimilation_faces.gif[/img] just kidding we couldnt afford that and would break the Final 8 rule) will be a Raven by the end of the week.

[url="http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=NFL&hl=168772&id=2078"]http://www.rotoworld...=168772&id=2078[/url]

Who do we go for a 30 year old 3rd rounder or a 26 year old 1st rounder?

[justifythegame]

[quote name='Alexir' date='04 March 2010 - 11:11 AM' timestamp='1267719063' post='368273']
According to rotoworld.com and Mike Lombardi, The Arizona Cardinals are only asking for a 3RD ROUND PICK for WR Anquan Boldin. As we already know, Brandon Marshall is on the market for a 1ST ROUND PICK.

I was very skeptical that we could land either one of these guys but I really think one of these guys (if not both [img]http://boards.baltimoreravens.com/public/style_emoticons/default/borg_assimilation_faces.gif[/img] just kidding we couldnt afford that and would break the Final 8 rule) will be a Raven by the end of the week.

[url="http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=NFL&hl=168772&id=2078"]http://www.rotoworld...=168772&id=2078[/url]

Who do we go for a 30 year old 3rd rounder or a 26 year old 1st rounder?
[/quote]
1st rd tender doesnt necessarily mean we have to give up a 1st, that if we offer him a better contract. They could still trade us him for lower picks or trades involving other players.

[theFRANCHISE]

It's hard to say which I would take. My gut instinct tells me to sacrifice the 3rd-rounder and take a risk with Boldin at 30 years of age even in just the final year of his contract as a short-term solution while still drafting a receiver to develop for the long-term. My brain tells me that taking Marshall with a 1st-rounder at 26 years of age would be the equivalent of drafting a receiver in the first round and paying the same contract.

Again, the thing that still makes me extremely wary of Marshall, despite his asking price from the Broncos being lower than expected, is whether he'll flare up again. People keep making the argument that a structured locker room will keep him in check, but when you have a guy who has a repeated history of issues that could keep him from playing (or playing well) and you throw money at him, no amount of structure will make the situation better. Boldin, despite his age and injury history, carries a lower risk because it's a lesser draft pick and he'll command a smaller contract than Marshall due to his age, should he sign an extension.

Either way, I'm liking the options here. Much better than having had really none the past few weeks. And you're right, either one of them will be a Raven by tomorrow (the start of free agency) or early next week.

[theFRANCHISE]

[quote name='justifythegame' date='04 March 2010 - 11:42 AM' timestamp='1267720943' post='368303']
1st rd tender doesnt necessarily mean we have to give up a 1st, that if we offer him a better contract. They could still trade us him for lower picks or trades involving other players.
[/quote]
I don't think the Broncos would accept anything less than a 1st round pick in a trade, even if packaging lower picks and a player or two.

The assumption is that, if the Ravens extend an offer, it'll merely be in reference to the 1st round tender, not a trade proposition.

[justifythegame]

[quote name='Alexir' date='04 March 2010 - 11:11 AM' timestamp='1267719063' post='368273']
According to rotoworld.com and Mike Lombardi, The Arizona Cardinals are only asking for a 3RD ROUND PICK for WR Anquan Boldin. As we already know, Brandon Marshall is on the market for a 1ST ROUND PICK.

I was very skeptical that we could land either one of these guys but I really think one of these guys (if not both [img]http://boards.baltimoreravens.com/public/style_emoticons/default/borg_assimilation_faces.gif[/img] just kidding we couldnt afford that and would break the Final 8 rule) will be a Raven by the end of the week.

[url="http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=NFL&hl=168772&id=2078"]http://www.rotoworld...=168772&id=2078[/url]

Who do we go for a 30 year old 3rd rounder or a 26 year old 1st rounder?
[/quote]
Boldin is my fav WR since getting picked in the 2nd rd by the Cards. He is worth a 3rd round pick if he had more yrs left on his deal and wasn't looking for a larry fitzgerald contract. But it wouldn't be a good investment for us if we gave up a 3rd, a fitz contract, for a guy who is 29 (30 soon), and already injury prone since his youth. Boldin plays like a RB so i don't think he has much mileage left on him as a Derrick Mason either. But if we can get permission to speak with him and he is willing to accept a reasonable contract, it would be a good move for a late 3rd round pick.

[slugz1]

i would trade our first for marshall and our third for boldin. our Pass game would be sick who cares how long it will last cause we dont even know if football will be played next year so win and win now.

[justifythegame]

[quote name='theFRANCHISE' date='04 March 2010 - 11:43 AM' timestamp='1267721009' post='368305']
I don't think the Broncos would accept anything less than a 1st round pick in a trade, even if packaging lower picks and a player or two.

The assumption is that, if the Ravens extend an offer, it'll merely be in reference to the 1st round tender, not a trade proposition.
[/quote]
Well multiple sources within the Ravens have said within the last couple days that they are not willing to trade their 1st round pick for anyone. And similarly they really aren't willing to consider moving their 2nd round pick either. They feel they get younger players in the draft who have potential to be the Ed Reeds and Ray Rices, and they typically pick high character players who they don't have to worry about anyway. But they are willing to consider 3rd rounders and below, they may even deal multiple picks from this year and next year as long as they are low like when they made the deal for Mcgahee.

[theFRANCHISE]

[quote name='justifythegame' date='04 March 2010 - 11:46 AM' timestamp='1267721166' post='368309']
Boldin is my fav WR since getting picked in the 2nd rd by the Cards. He is worth a 3rd round pick if he had more yrs left on his deal and wasn't looking for a larry fitzgerald contract. But it wouldn't be a good investment for us if we gave up a 3rd, a fitz contract, for a guy who is 29 (30 soon), and already injury prone since his youth. Boldin plays like a RB so i don't think he has much mileage left on him as a Derrick Mason either. But if we can get permission to speak with him and he is willing to accept a reasonable contract, it would be a good move for a late 3rd round pick.
[/quote]
That's really what it comes down to: does he still want Larry Fitzgerald-type money? If so, then the team's better off spending the first-round pick to pick up Brandon Marshall's tender, than to spend Fitzgerald money on Boldin.

Marshall will command a large contract either way, so it depends on how much more Marshall would want over Boldin. It's almost a certainty that Marshall will try to make up for how underpaid he's been by commanding a huge contract, but the question still remains as to the relative scale of that contract he's requesting. My first instinct was that, if the Broncos kept rejecting his agent's proposals, it must've been an exorbitant amount; but then, we all saw how the Broncos organization is run, so perhaps it's not so much the amount as it was just poor business minds at work.

[theFRANCHISE]

[quote name='slugz1' date='04 March 2010 - 11:50 AM' timestamp='1267721441' post='368313']
i would trade our first for marshall and our third for boldin. our Pass game would be sick who cares how long it will last cause we dont even know if football will be played next year so win and win now.
[/quote]
That type of "who cares beyond this year" attitude is what dug the Redskins and Raiders in their respective holes right now.

Even if there's an uncertain future, you still have to plan for the long-term while actively investing in the short-term. Success is when preparation meets opportunity.

[justifythegame]

And on the Marshall idea, suppose you give up a 1st round pick, suppose you give him one of the richest WR contracts (which i really doubt the Ravens can afford with us currently spending on the highest paid LB in the NFL, possibly Ngata commanding 100 million next year, and Gaither still looking for a long term deal), what if Brandon Marshall acts up again. Apparantley Goodell is on his last straw with Marshall, one more mistake and he is prepared to hand out a season long suspension. And then we lose big time. And i don't like the arguments about Ray lewis keeping him in check, Ray is maybe here one more year, and then what? Marshall can't even stay out of trouble at a McDonalds injuring himself. I would rather take T.O in his prime, because at least you know he doesnt have OFF-field issues and you know he will be there every game to produce. I think if we take this risk on Marshall, we should only consider late picks at the minimum, he is not worth all the investment he would require because of the risk involved.

At least Anquan Boldin is a high character player, he has been the Ray Lewis of the Cardinals since being drafted. He is an emotional leader, motivator, and mentor in that locker room. Even with his agent advising him to hold-out for a contract, he wouldn't willingly let his teammates down, his beef was only with the organization. Getting a leader like that on the offensive side of the ball for us is a huge bonus with Boldin.

[slugz1]

[quote name='theFRANCHISE' date='04 March 2010 - 11:52 AM' timestamp='1267721556' post='368316']
That type of "who cares beyond this year" attitude is what dug the Redskins and Raiders in their respective holes right now.

Even if there's an uncertain future, you still have to plan for the long-term while actively investing in the short-term. Success is when preparation meets opportunity.
[/quote]
so u wouldnt take marshal and boldin for a 1 and 3 to bury all wideout talk forevere and to at least bring our passing attack to about top 5. Cause if your going into the year with the same wideouts from last year you might as well hang up that ring.

[justifythegame]

[quote name='slugz1' date='04 March 2010 - 12:15 PM' timestamp='1267722906' post='368322']
so u wouldnt take marshal and boldin for a 1 and 3 to bury all wideout talk forevere and to at least bring our passing attack to about top 5. Cuase if your going into the year with the same wideouts from last year you might as well hang up that ring.
[/quote]
No, no sensible GM would. Not even Snyder would do that. You end up having the 2 highest paid WRs in the NFL. You have to let guys like Ngata leave in FA. You have to move Suggs (which we probably should either way). You can't address CB, one of the highest paid positions in the NFL. You end up creating holes everywhere else. Sure we would have a nice passing attack, but we would still end up at the bottom of the AFC North.

[Ed_Reed20]

I'd make the move for Marshall only because he's younger and a better player than Boldin. However, his issues aren't ones that will go away at the snap of a finger. If he does end up a Raven, I hope a change of scenery helps him.

[FlaccoIsHot]

apparently a reporter for SI (can't remember his name) said on 1st take this morning that according to a source close to B Marsh that the ravens are the front runners. Who knows but that would be great news.

[Jamal]

Without a shadow of a doubt, I'll take Marshall. He isn't injury prone, and hes only a year or 2 older than Flacco.

With that being said, if worst comes to worst, I'll take Boldin for a third rounder.

If a team like the Redskins breaks the bank on Marshall, then I understand not getting Marshall, but Ozzie better give his best shot to get him otherwise.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='FlaccoIsHot' date='04 March 2010 - 12:26 PM' timestamp='1267723595' post='368327']
apparently a reporter for SI (can't remember his name) said on 1st take this morning that according to a source close to B Marsh that the ravens are the front runners. Who knows but that would be great news.
[/quote]

I saw it too. The reporter's name is Jim Trotter.

How sweet would it be if a deal got done over the weekend?

[WoRMIS]

If we dont get one of these wr we will never c flaccos true ability we just wasting his talent wit the wr we have so these type of wr dont come around to often so we have to do it

[Guest jlaw48]

Grab Brandon Marshall for the 1st round tender and pickup a WR in the 3rd (Shipley, Cooper) we need a Wes Welker type player if we get Marshall!! Only reason I say 3rd round is because we neeed a pass rusher or CB in the 2nd rd. Sign Kelly Washington and Mason back!! We dont need Boldin because hes always hurt and is not worth a 3rd rd pick with Ozzies recent success in the 3rd round!! The lineup would be

1. Brandon marshall
2. Derek Mason
4. Kelly Washington
5. Donte Stallworth
6. Draft pick
7. Marcus Smith(??)

PS. Justin Harper
Eron Riley

This will probably be Masons last year even if he signs a two year deal!! So that draft pick should move up on the depth Chart!!

[slugz1]

[quote name='justifythegame' date='04 March 2010 - 12:21 PM' timestamp='1267723277' post='368324']
No, no sensible GM would. Not even Snyder would do that. You end up having the 2 highest paid WRs in the NFL. You have to let guys like Ngata leave in FA. You have to move Suggs (which we probably should either way). You can't address CB, one of the highest paid positions in the NFL. You end up creating holes everywhere else. Sure we would have a nice passing attack, but we would still end up at the bottom of the AFC North.
[/quote]


says the guy who want lazy Bryant. CB if you were in ya right mind you would know that our cbs are fine just need a back up plan if webb and washington dont heal fast enough. so two mid grade cb will do the job. holes everywhere? like where? your just overreacting to things if we paid fox all that money why would we sign another high priced cb? Highest paid yeah right we would have two nice priced wideout in this case the FO has the money to do so. We Will have money for ngata and co.

[edreedfromtheu]

[quote name='Alexir' date='04 March 2010 - 11:11 AM' timestamp='1267719063' post='368273']
According to rotoworld.com and Mike Lombardi, The Arizona Cardinals are only asking for a 3RD ROUND PICK for WR Anquan Boldin. As we already know, Brandon Marshall is on the market for a 1ST ROUND PICK.

I was very skeptical that we could land either one of these guys but I really think one of these guys (if not both [img]http://boards.baltimoreravens.com/public/style_emoticons/default/borg_assimilation_faces.gif[/img] just kidding we couldnt afford that and would break the Final 8 rule) will be a Raven by the end of the week.

[url="http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=NFL&hl=168772&id=2078"]http://www.rotoworld...=168772&id=2078[/url]

Who do we go for a 30 year old 3rd rounder or a 26 year old 1st rounder?
[/quote]

As far as I can tell, from the very limited information the league has actually released on it... the "final 8 rule" wouldn't matter if the Ravens [i][b]traded[/b][/i] for both/either of them. Which is likely what the Ravens AND the teams that tendered them would prefer.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='jlaw48' date='04 March 2010 - 12:53 PM' timestamp='1267725199' post='368348']
Grab Brandon Marshall for the 1st round tender and [b]pickup a WR in the 3rd (Shipley, Cooper) we need a Wes Welker type player[/b] if we get Marshall!! Only reason I say 3rd round is because we neeed a pass rusher or CB in the 2nd rd. Sign Kelly Washington and Mason back!! We dont need Boldin because hes always hurt and is not worth a 3rd rd pick with Ozzies recent success in the 3rd round!! The lineup would be

1. Brandon marshall
2. Derek Mason
4. Kelly Washington
5. Donte Stallworth
6. Draft pick
7. Marcus Smith(??)

PS. Justin Harper
Eron Riley

This will probably be Masons last year even if he signs a two year deal!! So that draft pick should move up on the depth Chart!!
[/quote]

Neither one of those guys are or will be Welker-like in the NFL. Plus, there are WRs with more upside than them in the draft.

[dpatrickguy]

I understand the worries with Marshall, but I would take him hands down over Boldin. As to Marshall's indiscretions, with the recent revelation of his feelings after his friends murder and being a witness, I think people put too much weight in them. Obviously hes had his issues before that, but it seems that his recent problems have been in direct correlation with those events. Clearly he wanted out of Denver, McDaniel's didn't want to trade him and issues arose. I don't everything is as black and white as everyone makes it out to be. I think a change of scenery could be very good for him.

[H8R]

Q is just hurt too much for me to consider a large contract and a 3rd round pick, especially in this years draft with all of the depth at WR. I'm all for the Marshall deal, IF he could be signed for a reasonable amount.
Bottom line, pay a top tier wideout now, or pay someone later that is older and begging for his last contract....

[H8R]

generally, guys like Marshall and Moss NEVER leave a team unless its time for the glue factory.
We have a chance to get a guy that could play for 8-10years and is already proven ( with PB honors). Give me the RINGS! lol

this team just needs to decide which identity they want! Ray and Ed are on the way out and the players to replace them aren't here yet. Where as the offense is young and hungry, you must play to your teams future strenghts and thats the OFFENSE!

[Nobi]

[quote name='theFRANCHISE' date='04 March 2010 - 11:52 AM' timestamp='1267721556' post='368316']
That type of "who cares beyond this year" attitude is what dug the Redskins and Raiders in their respective holes right now.

Even if there's an uncertain future, you still have to plan for the long-term while actively investing in the short-term. Success is when preparation meets opportunity.
[/quote]


I guess thats what Harbaugh meant with the whole building the foundation while fighting off the enemy parable. Let's hope they can give our troops more of a fighting chance with some heavy artillery and automatic weapons next year

[theFRANCHISE]

[quote name='slugz1' date='04 March 2010 - 01:11 PM' timestamp='1267726260' post='368357']
says the guy who want lazy Bryant. CB if you were in ya right mind you would know that our cbs are fine just need a back up plan if webb and washington dont heal fast enough. so two mid grade cb will do the job. holes everywhere? like where? your just overreacting to things if we paid fox all that money why would we sign another high priced cb? Highest paid yeah right we would have two nice priced wideout in this case the FO has the money to do so. We Will have money for ngata and co.
[/quote]
I'm a fan of Foxworth and even I know that the team needs another CB or two; Chris Carr, while serviceable as a nickelback and much-improved towards the end of last season, isn't good enough to be a permanent #2. Frank Walker is Frank Walker. Cary Williams, the team doesn't know enough about yet to determine whether he can be a good #2.

Fabian Washington and Lardarius Webb won't be at 100% next season, no matter how quickly they come back. No sense in going into the season assuming they'll be ready to play and [i]play well[/i] at the #2 spot if medical science says they won't, regardless of their level of conditioning.

[Ravensfan23]

The thing about Marshall is, everyone keeps saying, oh what if he gets in trouble and is suspended for a year? Well what if he doesn't?

What if we sign Boldin and he gets injured for a full season? Would that not be the same situation.

What if whatever player we select in the draft gets hurt in Training Camp and is out for the year.

My point is, everyone is talking about Marshall's off field problems and possibility getting suspended. However the guy has played in at least 15 games in each of the last 3 seasons. His production has been second to none. The NFL is all about risk reward.

I'm not saying that Marshall's off field issues aren't a problem. I don't even think that guys like Ray and Ed should be a mentor for this guy. At some point the has to be responsible for himself and I think he can do that.

But are we really willing to allow an opportunity to get one of the games best players pass because of something that "may" or "may not" even happen? Or because we wanna maintain a squeaky clear image?

Like I said before, no franchise has ever been torn apart because of some players off field problems. But heads will start to roll if the on field product is not good enough. And our WR play has not been good enough. Hell Ray Lewis was on trial for Murder. But that didn't hurt the Ravens franchise more then Kyle Boller not being able to perform on the field.

Imagine the Ravens passing on the chance to get a guy like Marshall for a 2nd straight year. Then we decide to go the draft and lower level FA route. Marshall lands on a AFC team like the Steelers. Doesn't have one off field issue. Continues to put up stellar numbers and is a major contributor to his team playing deep into the playoffs each year.

How would that make Ozzie and the rest of the FO look? How would that make us as fans feel? How would the actual players on the team view that. Are we trying to win championships, or are we looking to win some kind of image contest?

Yes that off field stuff is an issue, but the Ravens need to improve their offensive weapons around Flacco right now. Unfortunately for the Ravens there isn't a guy like Andre Johnson or Calvin Johnson(off field wise) available. So we will have to take a risk to improve this area.

I just can't see how the Ravens don't make a play for the younger, more on field reliable Marshall.

[theFRANCHISE]

[quote name='dpatrickguy' date='04 March 2010 - 01:23 PM' timestamp='1267726995' post='368363']
I understand the worries with Marshall, but I would take him hands down over Boldin. [b]As to Marshall's indiscretions, with the recent revelation of his feelings after his friends murder and being a witness, I think people put too much weight in them.[/b] Obviously hes had his issues before that, but it seems that his recent problems have been in direct correlation with those events. Clearly he wanted out of Denver, McDaniel's didn't want to trade him and issues arose. I don't everything is as black and white as everyone makes it out to be. I think a change of scenery could be very good for him.
[/quote]
Though I never want to undermine the human element involved since the loss of any friend or teammate is obviously traumatic, to use that as an excuse for his behavior is just as irresponsible as Marshall's actions themselves. That's not directed towards you, of course, since you yourself pointed out that not everything is as black-and-white as it seems. [i]But[/i], I feel as if there might be some things about Marshall that can't be fixed.

It's not so much that I'm looking for a saint of a player -- I just want someone who won't court so much trouble off the field that'll keep him from being on the field.

[justifythegame]

[quote name='slugz1' date='04 March 2010 - 01:11 PM' timestamp='1267726260' post='368357']
says the guy who want lazy Bryant. CB if you were in ya right mind you would know that our cbs are fine just need a back up plan if webb and washington dont heal fast enough. so two mid grade cb will do the job. holes everywhere? like where? your just overreacting to things if we paid fox all that money why would we sign another high priced cb? Highest paid yeah right we would have two nice priced wideout in this case the FO has the money to do so. We Will have money for ngata and co.
[/quote]
And your the guy who said trade for 2 pro bowl WR contracts. #1 trades are rare enough in the NFL, #2 ravens don't trade a lot, they build their franchise through the draft. If you knew anything about the Ravens you would know that much. If what you're saying is so easy, then why isn't every other team in the NFL doing it? To talk like a kid who doesn't understand how the NFL works.

I've watched Dez Bryant in college for years. He is my favorite WR and if you check my posts I was posting last offseason about waiting for this guy because he is going to be the next big thing, i didn't want Crabtree. On NFL.com Kirwan has Tate being picked first and Bryant falling to the Ravens. I actually think we will trade up for if he drops past 15 or 20. Watch some tape on him, his athleticism is something else, he makes rediuclous catches, the is the playmaker we need.

We have 3 busts at CB from the same draft class. Just because Foxworth was paid doesn't mean anything. The move had to be made because there were no corners on the roster last year, and CB his generally the highest paid position, and he was the best available. But that doesn't mean he is a starting CB. He made a case for it towards the end of the season but he has to prove his consistancy. CB has been an injury prone position for us the last 4 years young or old. Depth needs to be there, and im talking about depth with talent. I would rather have Chris Carr and Frank walker starting that Fabian Washington. Just because you can beat anyone in a race doesn't mean you can cover WRs. The man was getting burned all season, he was able to look decent his initial season because of the pass rush. He doesn't have instincts for the position and is lost out there half the time. He even admit he sucks (in a couple particular games at least). Don't even get me started on his terrible tackling, he either bounces off WRs or gets tossed around like a rag doll until a S of LB cleans it up. This guy is nothing but a nickel. Carr and Walker is the same. Foxworth is a #2 borderline #1. Webb might miss the entire season next year who is too small to be a #1. And you think the CB doesn't mean to be addressed? When the teams weakness all season was the secondary?

Holes? DE/DT, MLB, CB, WR, TE. And we build trough the draft. Sources say the ravens will NOT trade their 1st, so you can start talking about ozzie starting to treat his team like a fantasy football team but its not happening. You sign 2 WRs with larry fitzgerald contracts, Ngata ain't coming back with his 100M price tag. Gaither ain't getting LT money. You create holes when you do stupid stuff like that. Its not overreacting, its common sense. Im paraphrasing ozzie's own response when asked about trading for a WR, he said he doesn't want to create holes on other parts of his team to get a big name WR and ended by saying his team will always be a running team.

[dpatrickguy]

[quote name='theFRANCHISE' date='04 March 2010 - 02:12 PM' timestamp='1267729961' post='368389']
Though I never want to undermine the human element involved since the loss of any friend or teammate is obviously traumatic, to use that as an excuse for his behavior is just as irresponsible as Marshall's actions themselves. That's not directed towards you, of course, since you yourself pointed out that not everything is as black-and-white as it seems. [i]But[/i], I feel as if there might be some things about Marshall that can't be fixed.

It's not so much that I'm looking for a saint of a player -- I just want someone who won't court so much trouble off the field that'll keep him from being on the field.
[/quote]

Valid points. I mean as far as I know he never used it as an excuse publicly. But it does somewhat explain why he may have wanted out of Denver so badly and acted so childishly. At this point I'm willing to take a chance on him if his price is reasonable.