The Two Things That Really Bug Me About Flacco...

[Bltravens]

[quote name='edreedfromtheu' date='26 February 2010 - 01:02 PM' timestamp='1267210948' post='365419']
You're not going to convince anyone on here that Flacco is anything less than a God. If you try to, you're considered a Raven hater, and stupid. Trust me... it's definitely the receivers, the offensive line(sorry, couldn't even type that without laughing), or the defense's fault.
[/quote]
Hi Hateeeeer

On a side note, regular posters here acknowledge Flacco's faults, Cam didnt trust Flacco over the middle towards the end of the season. The first 5 games when Flacco was basically playing like Peyton Manning there were absolutely no handcuffs on Flacco. Fact of the matter is he was a 2nd year QB he has limitations, people recognize that, id like to think most of the regulars on here are pretty smart in what is going on with the Ravens fan-wise. There are times the Oline struggles, (both Pitt games) there are times the WRs simply cant get open to save their lives (both Cincy games)and there are also times when Cam has bad nights play calling. And there are times when Flacco struggles (GB game). He cant do this alone, he needs at least 1 real legit weapon. What do people want from Flacco, the 20 INT season Mark Sanchez just had?

[Foxworth]

I could care less for Mark Sanchez. Who we have is Joe Flacco and I'm sticking behind him.

[The Flock]

Joe Flacco is much better than Sanchez. Flacco just doesn't have the receivers to show it and last year he was hurt. This year he will get some receivers and be able to show how good he really is. This is what Flacco will be doing to the opponents next year whipping their butts.

[ravensconvert]

People are OK with Flacco's faults because he is a second year quarterback who will improve. When people compare him to guys picking in their late 20s/early 30s its an unfair comparison. Also remember that Baltimore has no tradition of producing great quarterbacks or good offense in general, so Flacco hasn't inherited a whole lot to work with. The weak receiving core and the young (but improving and great at the run) O line are part of that.

[JohnJohnson]

[quote name='edreedfromtheu' date='26 February 2010 - 03:02 PM' timestamp='1267210948' post='365419']
You're not going to convince anyone on here that Flacco is anything less than a God. If you try to, you're considered a Raven hater, and stupid. Trust me... it's definitely the receivers, the offensive line(sorry, couldn't even type that without laughing), or the defense's fault.
[/quote]

[img]http://boards.baltimoreravens.com/public/style_emoticons/default/lol3.gif[/img]

Most people just have realistic expectations. We had problems with all of the areas you named, so I don't see what's so funny about the notion that a QB isn't solely responsible for the success of an entire team. Our pass protection WAS mediocre at times, but it's always easier to blame the quarterback.

Some of the complaints really are stupid, did you ever consider that? He had a solid season despite all of the challenges he faced, and that's the most that anyone claims. When someone talks about his struggles late in the season, I acknowledge them, and also factor in his injury. You just don't like that most people won't accept the unjustified whining about how Flacco underperformed in his second season. Everyone on the team trusts him, but some fans who know next to nothing about the situation refuse to look past the flaws of a young, developing QB, who has already proven that he's a serious starter. Don't pretend that Ravens fans think he's perfect just because they support him.

[Guest I-70WestRaven]

[quote name='OrganizedChaos2052' date='26 February 2010 - 12:24 PM' timestamp='1267208641' post='365398']
I have two words for this thread.

Jim.
Zorn.

He will help Flacco further his game and hopefully develop into a prime-time QB.

The only thing that bugs me about Flacco is that after a drive (failed or successful) you will hardly ever see him go and look at the plays and coverages that you will ALWAYS see guys like Peyton Manning or Tom Brady do, and I think that plays a huge role down the road if Joe wants to be successful.
[/quote]

This is a very key point, in my opinion. A quarterback coach who has walked way more than a mile in Joe's shoes! Everytime he has come to the side line he's hasn't had a vetern player there to talk to. or to talk to him. Troy Smith and John Beck, not exactly gonna fit the bill. Zorn can only be a postive and the one thing you don't want him to lose is the"Joe Cool" he brought into the league, Franchise put it best, the "Stone cold killer," analogy. Wait for the weapons upgrade, it's coming!

[darklight1216]

[quote name='JohnJohnson' date='26 February 2010 - 01:46 PM' timestamp='1267210001' post='365412']
You know who has collapsed in games before? Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Brett Favre....
[/quote]
You must be not be paying enough attention to this message board. Flacco is the only quarterback of a winning team who has ever struggled. All of those other guys were perfect from day one (or whenever theit first starts were).

[quote name='Bltravens' date='26 February 2010 - 02:56 PM' timestamp='1267214210' post='365453']
Hi Hateeeeer

On a side note, regular posters here acknowledge Flacco's faults, Cam didnt trust Flacco over the middle towards the end of the season. [b]The first 5 games when Flacco was basically playing like Peyton Manning there were absolutely no handcuffs on Flacco.[/b] Fact of the matter is he was a 2nd year QB he has limitations, people recognize that, id like to think most of the regulars on here are pretty smart in what is going on with the Ravens fan-wise. There are times the Oline struggles, (both Pitt games) there are times the WRs simply cant get open to save their lives (both Cincy games)and there are also times when Cam has bad nights play calling. And there are times when Flacco struggles (GB game). He cant do this alone, he needs at least 1 real legit weapon. What do people want from Flacco, the 20 INT season Mark Sanchez just had?
[/quote]
Exactly; Flacco had 225 attempts (37.5 a/g)in the first six games and was top five in almost every statistical category (the Ravens were also the highest scoring team in the AFC). Then he had 274 attempts over the last ten (27.4 a/g). Of course his productivity is going to change. (In comparison, Peyton Manning averaged 35.6 games during the full season and 35.8 during his first six games.)

When we were going into the bye week, I remember so many people comlaining that we needed to rush more, Cam needed to stop acting like Flacco was a superstar, and all that jazz.

Well we "got back to our roots of running the football," Flacco was asked to do less, did less, and now everyone's complaining.

[quote name='The Flock' date='26 February 2010 - 04:11 PM' timestamp='1267218717' post='365500']
[b]Joe Flacco is much better than Sanchez.[/b] Flacco just doesn't have the receivers to show it and last year he was hurt. This year he will get some receivers and be able to show how good he really is. This is what Flacco will be doing to the opponents next year whipping their butts.
[/quote]
At least in the regular season.

On that note, I want to know why everyone is so in love with Mark Sanchez. He was carried by a dominant defense and top five running game just like Flacco and Jen. It took two Superbowl wins for people to start taking Jen seriously (and he still doesn't crack the top five of many people's qb lists) and Flacco is a complete joke to John Q. NFL fan so why does Sanchez get a free pass?

[theFRANCHISE]

[quote name='darklight1216' date='26 February 2010 - 06:54 PM' timestamp='1267228468' post='365574']
On that note, I want to know why everyone is so in love with Mark Sanchez. He was carried by a dominant defense and top five running game just like Flacco and Jen. It took two Superbowl wins for people to start taking Jen seriously (and he still doesn't crack the top five of many people's qb lists) and Flacco is s complete joke to John Q. NFL fan so why does Sanchez get a free pass?
[/quote]
If anything, Sanchez has actually put his team in more positions to lose than win with his turnovers. Sanchez just gets a free pass because he's from USC and because the media market in New York is enamored with him; he's got a great college pedigree, he's got model looks, he's involved in celebrity circles because of his USC connections, and he has flashes of the bravado of Joe Namath. On the surface, he is the idealized mold of an NFL QB. But looking at the numbers and dissecting the performances, he's far from it and may not hit that idealized pace until his third or fourth year.

[Guest I-70WestRaven]

[quote name='theFRANCHISE' date='26 February 2010 - 07:23 PM' timestamp='1267233783' post='365606']
If anything, Sanchez has actually put his team in more positions to lose than win with his turnovers. Sanchez just gets a free pass because he's from USC and because the media market in New York is enamored with him; he's got a great college pedigree, he's got model looks, he's involved in celebrity circles because of his USC connections, and he has flashes of the bravado of Joe Namath. On the surface, he is the idealized mold of an NFL QB. But looking at the numbers and dissecting the performances, he's far from it and may not hit that idealized pace until his third or fourth year.
[/quote]
Franchise if I may, don't forget, take away a Rex Ryan defense, their running game, philosopy and swagger,and that team and he would have alot worse numbers than he put up. Sophomore slump?

[theFRANCHISE]

[quote name='I-70WestRaven' date='26 February 2010 - 08:34 PM' timestamp='1267234486' post='365610']
Franchise if I may, don't forget, take away a Rex Ryan defense, their running game, philosopy and swagger,and that team and he would have alot worse numbers than he put up. Sophomore slump?
[/quote]
The irony is, the Rex Ryan defense [i]was[/i] taken away from Flacco and there wasn't much of a defense to speak of in Baltimore for the first six weeks, yet Flacco put up career numbers and was on-pace for an even bigger season than what he eventually had.

Though the offense benefitted greatly from Ray Rice's performance, it's important to keep in mind that teams didn't know how to gameplan for the Ravens at first because there was more passing than running. The fact that Cam Cameron put the offense on Flacco's shoulders and the way he responded in those first six weeks, that was indicative of something that Mark Sanchez has yet to accomplish in New York and may not accomplish next season. So I'm inclined to agree, a sophomore slump for Sanchez is practically imminent -- with or without all those factors that accounted for his mild rookie success.

[Ed_Reed20]

Glad to see the rational discussion.

I laughed out loud when Tony Kornheiser said he wasn't sure if Flacco was better than Sanchez after the Wild-Card play-off round.

[RoflDogs]

There is only one thing that bothers me with Flacco....the deep ball

[RavensAllTheWay]

[quote name='theFRANCHISE' date='26 February 2010 - 09:43 PM' timestamp='1267234985' post='365612']
The irony is, the Rex Ryan defense [i]was[/i] taken away from Flacco and there wasn't much of a defense to speak of in Baltimore for the first six weeks, yet Flacco put up career numbers and was on-pace for an even bigger season than what he eventually had.

Though the offense benefitted greatly from Ray Rice's performance, it's important to keep in mind that teams didn't know how to gameplan for the Ravens at first because there was more passing than running. The fact that Cam Cameron put the offense on Flacco's shoulders and the way he responded in those first six weeks, that was indicative of something that Mark Sanchez has yet to accomplish in New York and may not accomplish next season. So I'm inclined to agree, a sophomore slump for Sanchez is practically imminent -- with or without all those factors that accounted for his mild rookie success.
[/quote]
When you throw 12 TDs and 20 Ints in your rookie year, it's hard to have a sophmore slump. But honestly, even though I'm tired of hearing about Sanchez, don't be the least bit surprised if their offense opens up next season and they start the way we did last year on offense. They'd be just like us, more explosive than usual and hard to gameplan against.

[RavensAllTheWay]

[quote name='RoflDogs' date='26 February 2010 - 10:39 PM' timestamp='1267238351' post='365622']
There is only one thing that bothers me with Flacco....the deep ball
[/quote]
I agree, but this may change next year now that he has an actual deep threat in Stallworth.

[darklight1216]

[quote name='theFRANCHISE' date='26 February 2010 - 08:23 PM' timestamp='1267233783' post='365606']
If anything, Sanchez has actually put his team in more positions to lose than win with his turnovers. Sanchez just gets a free pass because he's from USC and because the media market in New York is enamored with him; he's got a great college pedigree, he's got model looks, he's involved in celebrity circles because of his USC connections, and he has flashes of the bravado of Joe Namath. On the surface, he is the idealized mold of an NFL QB. But looking at the numbers and dissecting the performances, he's far from it and may not hit that idealized pace until his third or fourth year.
[/quote]
Good points, but I'm not sure it will take him that long to "get it," so to speak. It's so much easier for offenses now, thanks to whiners like Polian. (That and I really, really want him to fail so he'll probably succeed. )

[quote name='theFRANCHISE' date='26 February 2010 - 08:43 PM' timestamp='1267234985' post='365612']
The irony is, the Rex Ryan defense [i]was[/i] taken away from Flacco and there wasn't much of a defense to speak of in Baltimore for the first six weeks, yet Flacco put up career numbers and was on-pace for an even bigger season than what he eventually had.[/quote]
It was the twilight zone. The AFCs highest scoring offense was in Baltimore and the Ravens had a qb that was near the top of every stat, but the defense was one of the league's worst.

But then we went back to the normal defense and typical offense, complete with a prototypical Ravens quarterback.
[quote]
Though the offense benefitted greatly from Ray Rice's performance, it's important to keep in mind that teams didn't know how to gameplan for the Ravens at first because there was more passing than running. The fact that Cam Cameron put the offense on Flacco's shoulders and the way he responded in those first six weeks, that was indicative of something that Mark Sanchez has yet to accomplish in New York and may not accomplish next season. [b]So I'm inclined to agree, a sophomore slump for Sanchez is practically imminent[/b] -- with or without all those factors that accounted for his mild rookie success.
[/quote]
You don't think that he's kind of already had his slump? When you're at the bottom the only way to go is up.

[quote name='RoflDogs' date='26 February 2010 - 09:39 PM' timestamp='1267238351' post='365622']
There is only one thing that bothers me with Flacco....the deep ball
[/quote]
Every time he throws it deep I expect an interception and it almost always is. It's ironic because the deep ball used to be one his strengths.

The successful deeep ball has kind of gone the way of [i]not[/i] throwing interceptions in the playoffs.

[theFRANCHISE]

[quote name='darklight1216' date='26 February 2010 - 09:58 PM' timestamp='1267239518' post='365631']
You don't think that he's kind of already had his slump? When you're at the bottom the only way to go is up.
[/quote]
Oh, it can get worse -- it can definitely get worse.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='theFRANCHISE' date='26 February 2010 - 09:18 PM' timestamp='1267240709' post='365640']
Oh, it can get worse -- it can definitely get worse.
[/quote]
Oh it can get way worse forsure, just imagine if the Jets let him throw 25 times a game next year or if Shonne Greene gets worn down after week 10 if they release Jones.

[RedFire]

[quote name='RavensReign' date='26 February 2010 - 10:30 AM' timestamp='1267198249' post='365292']
they do misdirection and play action beautifully, they do it more than everyone else, and it's already one of the best in the league if not the best, that's Sanchez forte. Mark always plants his feet! I digress...
[/quote]


did you sleep through flacco's rookie season? i think joe flacco was consitently running playaction and people were calling this out. he did bootlegs his rookie season and lined up as a wideout. I think people post this stuff just to stir people up cuz they bored with nothing better to do.


Now...the offense was scoring toooo quickly during the 1st several weeks which hurt our defense. We had to switch to ball control because of that and it just happened to coincide with flacco's injuries.










By the time flacco was better in the divisional round cam will still calling lame duck plays. And FLACCO IS NOT ALLOWED TO CHANGE PLAYS IF YALL EVER WATCH CAM ON MASN....flacco was upset because he can't audible! remember cam cameron is like brad childress except favre did what he wanted to do w/o fear cause of his stature.


flacco still has the best deep ball in the game and can roll out the pocket if he wants to....but defenses will key in on that so he stands in the pocket more which he was fairly good at considering our receiver issues


we will get joe a few more weapons this upcoming season and maybe the defense will start strong so we can use the quick hitting offens where flacco was looking like peyton manning and tom brady....instead of the ball controll offense.

[JohnJohnson]

[quote name='RoflDogs' date='26 February 2010 - 10:39 PM' timestamp='1267238351' post='365622']
There is only one thing that bothers me with Flacco....the deep ball
[/quote]

Everyone praised his deep ball last year, but once he got injured he started underthrowing them. When a QB has to adjust and change one or two things about his mechanics, it really affects everything he does. It was probably difficult for him to adjust to a new throwing motion, and it affected his accuracy. I think he was underthrowing balls because he just wasn't used to trying to place them, like a golfer would overshoot or undershoot if you suddenly changed his swing. Next season he'll be back.

[K-Dog]

I could care less about Flaccos's emotions.
He could scratch his butt and pick his nose for all I care.

He is who he is and his character is a part of who he is. I have no reason to change his character to make him more likeable.

On the field is another story.
In that I am satisfied so far...

[FlaccoIsHot]

Well I think Flacco is poised to have a great 3rd yr. According to Harbs when he talked to the media at the combine Zorn has already started meeting with Joe. I think it's great that they are already getting started working together.

[theFRANCHISE]

[quote name='RedFire' date='27 February 2010 - 07:59 AM' timestamp='1267275595' post='365701']
did you sleep through flacco's rookie season? i think joe flacco was consitently running playaction and people were calling this out. he did bootlegs his rookie season and lined up as a wideout. I think people post this stuff just to stir people up cuz they bored with nothing better to do.

Now...the offense was scoring toooo quickly during the 1st several weeks which hurt our defense. We had to switch to ball control because of that and it just happened to coincide with flacco's injuries.
[/quote]
I remember Week 1 against the Chiefs when almost nothing but play-action pass was called on three or four consecutive possessions. The best part was, not only did it work, but it worked so well because Flacco did such a great job of selling it. The Chiefs stacked the box and knew it was coming, even trying to mix in zone blitzes, and they still couldn't stop Flacco. I literally laughed out loud after something like the 8th or 9th one because it got to be almost comical how we were telegraphing that play-action in the stands and, lo and behold, there it was for another first down.

[Bazooka Joe]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' date='26 February 2010 - 11:00 AM' timestamp='1267200046' post='365305']
Like people have said, pressure and mechanics-altering injuries really hurt down the stretch.

It's really a shame because who knows what type of season Joe would have put together had he not suffered the ankle, hip, and bicep injuries. I guess we'll have to wait till next year.

I honestly can't see how anyone has a problem with Joe's temperament. Not only is it serving him well now as a young QB but as a veteran, he'll be incredible.

Be patient with Joe. Franchise QBs don't get over their growing pains in one, two or even three seasons. It takes time. However, this team can make it easier for Joe, as other teams have done with their young signal-callers, by surrounding him with legitimate weapons.
[/quote]

Honestly, I think some just need to go back and watch old footage of Kyle Boller. Then maybe that would end this nitpicking over Flacco. Many forget that he is still very young and just completed his SECOND SEASON!

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Bazooka Joe' date='27 February 2010 - 06:30 PM' timestamp='1267313418' post='365896']
Honestly, I think some just need to go back and watch old footage of Kyle Boller. Then maybe that would end this nitpicking over Flacco. Many forget that he is still very young and just completed his SECOND SEASON!
[/quote]

Exactly. The skills people are constantly whining that Flacco doesn't possess aren't skills you pick up in two years.

[3-4ravdef509]

[quote name='RavensReign' date='26 February 2010 - 10:30 AM' timestamp='1267198249' post='365292']
He's a great talent sure, and thank goodness we finally found a QB, but two things really bug me about Joe.

He throws off his back foot, it drives me crazy, that one's self explanitory. It's not always because of the pressure either.

[b]Secondly, he doesn't show much emotion.[/b] One of the last games of the season he was on the sideline and angrily yelling at a coach, it was pure emotion, I was in shock, it was so natural, I loved it. It didn't look like he was embarrassing the coach it was just frustration and he was letting it out it appeared.

You see a young rookie like Sanchez and you just love his charisma and energy you see how the team feeds off it. Is Sanchez better than Flacco already? I was pulling for the Jets after we lost to the Colts because of Rex, Jim, and Bart, it's like watching the Ravens on D. Sachez has huge hands and he's so mobile around the pocket, they do misdirection and play action beautifully, they do it more than everyone else, and it's already one of the best in the league if not the best, that's Sanchez forte. Mark always plants his feet! I digress...

Flacco is cool under pressure, he smiles on the sideline after a good drive, but I'd like to see more positive emotion from during the game, it really would be a positive for the team as a whole in my opinion. Talking to WR, TE, his Oline, etc. Especially as he is going to be our leader more and more as the season change I'd love to see become more of a vocal leader. I'm hoping it comes naturally to him.
[/quote]

Joe Cool, that's what we call him.

[RoflDogs]

[quote name='JohnJohnson' date='27 February 2010 - 11:02 AM' timestamp='1267286562' post='365737']
Everyone praised his deep ball last year, but once he got injured he started underthrowing them. When a QB has to adjust and change one or two things about his mechanics, it really affects everything he does. It was probably difficult for him to adjust to a new throwing motion, and it affected his accuracy. I think he was underthrowing balls because he just wasn't used to trying to place them, like a golfer would overshoot or undershoot if you suddenly changed his swing. Next season he'll be back.
[/quote]

No, I still remember Flacco throwing it up 100 yards into the air last season

[RavensAllTheWay]

[quote name='RavensAllTheWay' date='26 February 2010 - 03:09 PM' timestamp='1267211344' post='365422']
Well your right to an extent. I agree that the O line's pass prtoection and the WRs weren't nearly as good as we would have hoped last year. And I also believe in Flacco being the future QB of this team. But it sort of iritates me when people make excuses for the QB and blame everyone but the QB when their team loses. I mean I wouldn't say Flacco is the "golden boy" of this team just because he's the QB.
[/quote]
Okay I just made a big mistake that no one seemed to catch. On the first page, I talked about Flacco's poor receivers and his injured hip, which both were the reasons for his repeated checkdowns to Rice and others. But then, I wrote in a reply to edreedfromtheu that I hate when people make excuses for their QB when these things don't work and the team loses. CRAP.

[3-4ravdef509]

I don't think we're making excuses for him. Flacco does need to improve his game in certain areas. We're just pointing out some of the obvious handicaps that made it difficult for him to perform last year.
That being said, great quarterbacks need to be able to perform in situations that aren't ideal, so I think last year was actually great for Flacco's development. He made progress in many areas, obviously from looking at his stats. At the same time, he was put up against some very tough defensive situations, like GB for example, that he just didn't find a way to execute. I think he'll learn from those mistakes, along with the others he made this year. If the organization continues in the direction of giving him more weapons, I think the hell he went through last year, along with Zorn's mentorship will cause Flacco to shine like he hasn't before.

[1defense]

There isn't anything wrong wth the way Flacco handle's his emotion.He is cool under pressure and to me it makes it hard for the defense to see if they have rattled his cage.If a defense can't get to him or if he is emotionless that will frustrate them because like anyone would do defense's feed off of the fear they have put in the quarterback.If you remember when we had Boller he showed emotion, but when a defense bothered him you could tell it was bothering him and they got pumped up over it.I don't care if he shows emotion, but only that he produce's.

[JEEPercreepermd]

So because Mark Sanchez has big hands you would take him over Flacco? Flacco threw 21td's last season while Sanchez threw 20 int's. His 20int's are just 4 shy of Flacco's TOTAL over the last two seasons.

Flacco detractors,
You are putting way too much of a microscope on the guy. By all accounts he was a walking black and blue bruise by the end of the season, yet he STILL managed to put far better numbers than his rookie year, AND if it weren't for a few things that happened that were beyond his control, this team could have had every shot at winning the division and equaling last season's 11-5 record AT LEAST. With O'niell Cousins starting at Tackle against some of the elite pass rushers in the league this season, there were times when he simply had no chance.

Another issue obviously is the Raven's lack of talent at WR beyond Mason. Nothing more needs to be said about them because we ALL know already and i'll spare myself from repeating what has been said millions of times on this forum.


Looking forward to next season. If the Ravens can grab a receiver via either the Draft,free agency, or a trade that can be what we all envision out of a "true #1 receiver", the Ravens receiving corps all of the sudden becomes interestingly dangerous with Mason at #2, Stallworth #3, then IMO you boot Clayton,and Williams, and bring up Justin Harper or Eron Reily, maybe even keep Kelly Washington around.

Anyway, my point is that until the Ravens O-line can stay healthy enough to play tougher against good pass rushers, and the Ravens make some moves at WR, you won't get to fully see what Flacco can do.

I think that the first few weeks of last season were just a glimpse of the monster that the Ravens offense can become IN TIME.