The Two Things That Really Bug Me About Flacco...

[RavensReign]

He's a great talent sure, and thank goodness we finally found a QB, but two things really bug me about Joe.

He throws off his back foot, it drives me crazy, that one's self explanitory. It's not always because of the pressure either.

Secondly, he doesn't show much emotion. One of the last games of the season he was on the sideline and angrily yelling at a coach, it was pure emotion, I was in shock, it was so natural, I loved it. It didn't look like he was embarrassing the coach it was just frustration and he was letting it out it appeared.

You see a young rookie like Sanchez and you just love his charisma and energy you see how the team feeds off it. Is Sanchez better than Flacco already? I was pulling for the Jets after we lost to the Colts because of Rex, Jim, and Bart, it's like watching the Ravens on D. Sachez has huge hands and he's so mobile around the pocket, they do misdirection and play action beautifully, they do it more than everyone else, and it's already one of the best in the league if not the best, that's Sanchez forte. Mark always plants his feet! I digress...

Flacco is cool under pressure, he smiles on the sideline after a good drive, but I'd like to see more positive emotion from during the game, it really would be a positive for the team as a whole in my opinion. Talking to WR, TE, his Oline, etc. Especially as he is going to be our leader more and more as the season change I'd love to see become more of a vocal leader. I'm hoping it comes naturally to him.

[theFRANCHISE]

In terms of throwing off his back foot, notice that he does that when he's on the run; he wouldn't need to be throwing on the run so often if the line would protect better against high-pressure defenses. That said, the offensive line has otherwise done a tremendous job this season despite the constant shuffling due to injuries.

As for Flacco's demeanor -- that's exactly why I love him. Flacco's shown positive emotion after good drives; his awkward TD celebration fist pumps and his patting his players heads on the sidelines comes to mind when I've gone to the games. But it's his lack of negative emotion that I like for the most part, because it's easy for young QBs to lose their cool and completely self-destruct. I've yet to see a game where Flacco's completely self-destructed and thrown picks in bunches to outright lose a game. In fact, I've seen more games where Flacco's thrown a pick only to lead a TD drive on the next possession.

The best way I've heard Flacco's demeanor described is that he's like a stone-cold killer; he'll look at you like he's completely unphased, and then he'll look at you with that same cold expression after he's just fired off a TD to put you to bed.

[Twoo]

[quote name='RavensReign' date='26 February 2010 - 10:30 AM' timestamp='1267198249' post='365292']
He's a great talent sure, and thank goodness we finally found a QB, but two things really bug me about him...

He throws off his back foot all the time, drives me crazy, pretty self explanitory

Secondly he doesn't show barely any emotion. One of the last games of the season he was on the sideline and angry yelling at a coach emotional I was in shock it was so natural I loved it. It didn't look like he was embarrassing the coach it was just frustration and he was letting it out it appeared. You see a young rookie like Sanchez and you just love his charisma and energy you see how the team feeds off it. Flacco is cool under pressure great, smile on the sidelines after a good drive sure, but I'd like to see more positive emotion during the game, it really would be a positive for the team as a whole in my opinion. Especially as he is going to be our leader more and more as the season pass. He's stoneface the entire game open up a little Joe.
[/quote]

Flacco was throwing off his back foot because: A- He was under pressure and more importantly B- His ankle/foot was in tremendous pain for most the season.

With regards to his emotion... just because you don't see him screaming and running around on the sidelines doesn't mean he's emotionless. If you've ever watched interviews of the offensive players they have all said that he has a tremendous presence in the the huddle. They've also said his "cool-headedness" is extremely reassuring.

IMO I'd rather have my QB be calm and collected than running all over the field high-fiving people and screaming at coaches.

/thread

[Ed_Reed20]

Like people have said, pressure and mechanics-altering injuries really hurt down the stretch.

It's really a shame because who knows what type of season Joe would have put together had he not suffered the ankle, hip, and bicep injuries. I guess we'll have to wait till next year.

I honestly can't see how anyone has a problem with Joe's temperament. Not only is it serving him well now as a young QB but as a veteran, he'll be incredible.

Be patient with Joe. Franchise QBs don't get over their growing pains in one, two or even three seasons. It takes time. However, this team can make it easier for Joe, as other teams have done with their young signal-callers, by surrounding him with legitimate weapons.

[Mahatma_Sloth]

Id rather have flaccos mentality than anyone elses in the NFL, hell even peyton pouts when things arent going his way

p.s. MY 1000th POST!!! and it only took me just about 3 years haha

[RavensReign]

Sloth yeah I agree that works to Peton's negative, pouting and cussing out his team, seem to be his only faults.

[Alexir]

lol Flacco doesn't throw off his back foot cuz he is "under pressure". He has so much time to get rid of the ball. I'm sure he will adjust this year. I agree, I rather have a more charismatic QB but we got Flacco. I rather have a Drew Brees or Favre like leader but we got a Kurt Warner. Either way thats fine by me, let's just get him some more weapons and move on from the Mason and Clayton days.

[JohnJohnson]

[quote name='RavensReign' date='26 February 2010 - 11:30 AM' timestamp='1267198249' post='365292']
Secondly, he doesn't show much emotion. One of the last games of the season he was on the sideline and angrily yelling at a coach, it was pure emotion, I was in shock, it was so natural, I loved it. It didn't look like he was embarrassing the coach it was just frustration and he was letting it out it appeared.

[b]You see a young rookie like Sanchez and you just love his charisma and energy you see how the team feeds off it. Is Sanchez better than Flacco already? [/b] I was pulling for the Jets after we lost to the Colts because of Rex, Jim, and Bart, it's like watching the Ravens on D. Sachez has huge hands and he's so mobile around the pocket, they do misdirection and play action beautifully, they do it more than everyone else, and it's already one of the best in the league if not the best, that's Sanchez forte. I digress...
[/quote]

Ugh, here we go again, another person who wants to draw a conclusion from 2 or 3 games. You must be joking about Sanchez, right? Forget the fact that he had a head coach who had just been in the same situation the previous year...he threw 20 interceptions and 12 touchdowns, with better receivers than Flacco had last year (and this year). Flacco threw 14 TDs and 12 interceptions, and had a good postseason until he ran into the Steelers and their very tough defense. This year, he was injured and it clearly affected his mechanics. Consistency is everything, and when you injure something as fundamental as an ankle or hip, it throws off a QB. It would throw off a golfer a lot too, or any athlete who puts pressure on their leg.

Huge hands? What the heck? The only comparison between Flacco and Sanchez is that they each won two playoff games their rookie year. Other than that, it's not even close. I would take Flacco over Sanchez any day, and you'll see why next season.

[lowrider]

[quote name='Alexir' date='26 February 2010 - 11:33 AM' timestamp='1267201991' post='365317']
I rather have a Drew Brees or Favre like leader but we got a Kurt Warner.
[/quote]
I was thinking more of a Steve McNair type of a personality over Kurt Warner, because towards the end of Warner's career he became more of a leader. McNair would take naps before the game because he was so relaxed.

But I actually think this is a good thing that Flacco is like this. Since we are putting so much pressure on him to take over and start as a rookie. He needs to relax and understand he is going to make mistakes. Sometimes a Mark Sanchez gets too emotional and keeps digging himself in holes. I think Flacco's relaxed nature helps the offense relax and not stress out sometimes too.

[JohnJohnson]

[quote name='Alexir' date='26 February 2010 - 12:33 PM' timestamp='1267201991' post='365317']
lol Flacco doesn't throw off his back foot cuz he is "under pressure". He has so much time to get rid of the ball. I'm sure he will adjust this year. I agree, I rather have a more charismatic QB but we got Flacco. I rather have a Drew Brees or Favre like leader but we got a Kurt Warner. Either way thats fine by me, let's just get him some more weapons and move on from the Mason and Clayton days.
[/quote]

Guess you weren't watching some of the games I saw, because he was often under pressure and had little time. Did you watch the second Steelers game?

He threw off of his back foot because he was injured, and his mechanics were significantly affected. What you'd rather have is irrelevant, the question is what's better. Let's see...Kurt Warner has the top 3 Super Bowl passing games of all time, and is the best postseason QB ever (I wonder if that has to do with temperament). Favre is 40, has won one Super Bowl, and is known for being a big risk taker and gunslinger. I'm sure you'd find plenty to complain about if we had him. Drew Brees is in his 9th season, and just won his first ring. There's not much to complain about now, but keep in mind that his first two full season with the Chargers, he was nothing special.

Most quarterbacks are more emotional than Flacco, and were perhaps more outspoken leaders early on. Because of this, most successful quarterbacks are this way, because there are simply more of them. But you have no basis to say that Flacco's demeanor and leadership skills are lacking, give him some friggin' time. Show me a quarterback who had high potential, yet was hindered because he just wasn't "emotional enough." It's a ridiculous notion, he'll grow into his style.

[FlaccoIsHot]

must be the offseason...another Flacco thread. UGH.

Word to both your posts JohnJohnson. Couldn't have said it better myself. I think sometimes people forget that Flacco was a 2nd yr QB. Plenty of time for growth. I also think his injuries were worse than he and Harbs were letting on. I love Joe's demeanor on the field and everything I have read from the ravens is that he is a competetive guy on and off the field. I think that's what people mean when they talk him being not emotional enough on the sidelines. People mistake that for him not being competetive when it's just not true.

[Clutch Ravens]

For a 24 year old QB who had; little to no options and was battling injuries the entire season behind an o-line that struggled with injuries at times he had an immaculate season. A 2nd year QB who was capable of throwing 21 TDs to only 12 picks with our receiving corps. deserves a gold medal in my opinion. There are times that Flacco becomes a little flustered and has his rhythm thrown off which, to be totally honest did vex me at times. Then I would remember a little fact - he just turned 25 on the 16th of January this year. A healthy Flacco with a replenished, talented receiving corps will be able to set a number of Defenses a-blaze this season.

[FerrariFan87]

My biggest concern with Joe is his inability to throw accurately across the middle.

[theFRANCHISE]

[quote name='FerrariFan87' date='26 February 2010 - 01:01 PM' timestamp='1267207289' post='365375']
My biggest concern with Joe is his inability to throw accurately across the middle.
[/quote]
That's a concern that fans have with 75% of starting QBs in the league.

Not only are half the receivers in the league hesitant to go over the middle, but most QBs are afraid of the confusion that ensues when you're trying to fit a ball between the LBs and safeties and you're not sure how deep the coverage is. This is where depth perception and having good chemistry with a WR comes into play. Throw it too far, it gets picked; throw it too shallow, it gets picked. There's more bad than good that comes from throwing over the middle -- yet, the high-risk, high-reward nature of that area is why QBs are urged to do it so often.

[Alexir]

[quote name='FerrariFan87' date='26 February 2010 - 01:01 PM' timestamp='1267207289' post='365375']
My biggest concern with Joe is his inability to throw accurately across the middle.
[/quote]

+1

That s something he needs to work on. That and a quicker release. I think both will be fixed when he gets playmakers on his team.

[Shawn`]

[quote name='Alexir' date='26 February 2010 - 12:04 PM' timestamp='1267207465' post='365382']
+1

That s something he needs to work on. That and a quicker release. I think both will be fixed when he gets playmakers on his team.
[/quote]

Quick release is up to the receivers, not the quarterback.

If a receiver doesn't get open quickly enough the QB is obviously not going to throw it earlier than the receiver expects it. Which is why Ray Rice had so many screens and receptions this year.

[RavensAllTheWay]

Here's something I loved about Flacco last year. He battled through his injuries. And another good thing moving forward:

The checkdowns to Rice will hopefully and probably be less frequent next season because his WR corps is changing. But I think one main reason he was checking it down so much last year is not just because of the lack of talent at WR, but also because he didn't want to stand in the pocket forever and risk taking hits that would further damage his hip. So personally, I expect some improvement from him.

[FerrariFan87]

[quote name='theFRANCHISE' date='26 February 2010 - 01:03 PM' timestamp='1267207389' post='365378']
That's a concern that fans have with 75% of starting QBs in the league.

Not only are half the receivers in the league hesitant to go over the middle, but most QBs are afraid of the confusion that ensues when you're trying to fit a ball between the LBs and safeties and you're not sure how deep the coverage is. This is where depth perception and having good chemistry with a WR comes into play. Throw it too far, it gets picked; throw it too shallow, it gets picked. There's more bad than good that comes from throwing over the middle -- yet, the high-risk, high-reward nature of that area is why QBs are urged to do it so often.
[/quote]

That may be, but it's a glaring issue with Joe, and it's really hampering this offense's potential.

[OrganizedChaos2052]

I have two words for this thread.

Jim.
Zorn.

He will help Flacco further his game and hopefully develop into a prime-time QB.

The only thing that bugs me about Flacco is that after a drive (failed or successful) you will hardly ever see him go and look at the plays and coverages that you will ALWAYS see guys like Peyton Manning or Tom Brady do, and I think that plays a huge role down the road if Joe wants to be successful.

[EdReedFTW]

[quote name='Shawn`' date='26 February 2010 - 01:11 PM' timestamp='1267207883' post='365388']
Quick release is up to the receivers, not the quarterback.

If a receiver doesn't get open quickly enough the QB is obviously not going to throw it earlier than the receiver expects it. Which is why Ray Rice had so many screens and receptions this year.
[/quote]

By "quick release" he means flacco's throwing motion being faster. But you are both right. Flacco could stand to speed up his delivery but we REALLY need receivers to get open better. A receiver to stretch the field is needed, but more basic than that was our problem that no one would get open other than Mason and Rice. So basically our passing offense became four yard checkdown (which did have the potential to go to the house) to Rice or an 8 yard curl to Mason. If those were covered, then throw out of bounds, force a throw or take a sack. That's got to improve.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='theFRANCHISE' date='26 February 2010 - 01:03 PM' timestamp='1267207389' post='365378']
That's a concern that fans have with 75% of starting QBs in the league.

Not only are half the receivers in the league hesitant to go over the middle, but most QBs are afraid of the confusion that ensues when you're trying to fit a ball between the LBs and safeties and you're not sure how deep the coverage is. This is where depth perception and having good chemistry with a WR comes into play. Throw it too far, it gets picked; throw it too shallow, it gets picked. There's more bad than good that comes from throwing over the middle -- yet, the high-risk, high-reward nature of that area is why QBs are urged to do it so often.
[/quote]

Good point Fran. That's why I'm hoping the WR(s) the Ravens draft this year are players that are willing to sacrifice their bodies and go over the middle to make catches like Rod Smith used to do for the Broncos.

Had the Ravens been able to attack the middle of the field more, I honestly think they would have beaten the Bengals and even the Colts.

[H8R]

[quote name='theFRANCHISE' date='26 February 2010 - 10:43 AM' timestamp='1267199003' post='365297']
In terms of throwing off his back foot, notice that he does that when he's on the run; he wouldn't need to be throwing on the run so often if the line would protect better against high-pressure defenses. That said, the offensive line has otherwise done a tremendous job this season despite the constant shuffling due to injuries.

As for Flacco's demeanor -- that's exactly why I love him. Flacco's shown positive emotion after good drives; his awkward TD celebration fist pumps and his patting his players heads on the sidelines comes to mind when I've gone to the games. But it's his lack of negative emotion that I like for the most part, because it's easy for young QBs to lose their cool and completely self-destruct. I've yet to see a game where Flacco's completely self-destructed and thrown picks in bunches to outright lose a game. In fact, I've seen more games where Flacco's thrown a pick only to lead a TD drive on the next possession.

The best way I've heard Flacco's demeanor described is that he's like a stone-cold killer; he'll look at you like he's completely unphased, and then he'll look at you with that same cold expression after he's just fired off a TD to put you to bed.
[/quote]

I'd almost say he gave the game away in GB.

[darklight1216]

[quote name='H8R' date='26 February 2010 - 01:34 PM' timestamp='1267209288' post='365407']
I'd almost say he gave the game away in GB.
[/quote]
Him and most of the other players in purple.

[JohnJohnson]

[quote name='FerrariFan87' date='26 February 2010 - 02:23 PM' timestamp='1267208620' post='365397']
That may be, but it's a glaring issue with Joe, and it's really hampering this offense's potential.
[/quote]

Unbelievable. Give me a break.

[quote name='OrganizedChaos2052' date='26 February 2010 - 02:24 PM' timestamp='1267208641' post='365398']
The only thing that bugs me about Flacco is that after a drive (failed or successful) you will hardly ever see him go and look at the plays and coverages that you will ALWAYS see guys like Peyton Manning or Tom Brady do, and I think that plays a huge role down the road if Joe wants to be successful.
[/quote]

How many times are we going to see this same crap? Once again, you don't see him all the time, the majority of the time, half the time, or even 5% of the time. The camera happens to show Flacco after a couple of drives where he wasn't [i]instantly[/i] looking at something, and people ignorantly conclude that he doesn't ever study on the sidelines. Do you realize how much more the cameras zoom in on Peyton Manning and Tom Brady than they do on Flacco? I've seen Brady and Manning just standing on the sideline watching, many times.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='OrganizedChaos2052' date='26 February 2010 - 01:24 PM' timestamp='1267208641' post='365398']
I have two words for this thread.

Jim.
Zorn.

He will help Flacco further his game and hopefully develop into a prime-time QB.

[b]The only thing that bugs me about Flacco is that after a drive (failed or successful) you will hardly ever see him go and look at the plays and coverages that you will ALWAYS see guys like Peyton Manning or Tom Brady do, and I think that plays a huge role down the road if Joe wants to be successful.[/b]
[/quote]

This another common complaint that doesn't make sense. The QBs you mentioned have cameras trained on them all game so of course you're going to see them do everything on the sidelines.

Just because the camera rarely shows Joe going threw the playbook or looking at coverages, it doesn't mean he doesn't do it at all.

[JohnJohnson]

You know who has collapsed in games before? Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Brett Favre....

[FerrariFan87]

[quote name='JohnJohnson' date='26 February 2010 - 01:39 PM' timestamp='1267209552' post='365409']
Unbelievable. Give me a break.

[/quote]

This offense could have exploded this season if we had more than one or two plays that utilized the middle of the field... how many crucial INTs did Joe throw over the middle (see: The Colts game in B-more and others). Yes, the WR situation plays a part, but Cam doesn't trust Joe to execute plays over the middle. Period. Imagine the Colts offense if they didn't go over the middle to Clark and Co.; it wouldn't be the same.

[edreedfromtheu]

[quote name='RavensReign' date='26 February 2010 - 10:30 AM' timestamp='1267198249' post='365292']
He's a great talent sure, and thank goodness we finally found a QB, but two things really bug me about Joe.

He throws off his back foot, it drives me crazy, that one's self explanitory. It's not always because of the pressure either.

Secondly, he doesn't show much emotion. One of the last games of the season he was on the sideline and angrily yelling at a coach, it was pure emotion, I was in shock, it was so natural, I loved it. It didn't look like he was embarrassing the coach it was just frustration and he was letting it out it appeared.

You see a young rookie like Sanchez and you just love his charisma and energy you see how the team feeds off it. Is Sanchez better than Flacco already? I was pulling for the Jets after we lost to the Colts because of Rex, Jim, and Bart, it's like watching the Ravens on D. Sachez has huge hands and he's so mobile around the pocket, they do misdirection and play action beautifully, they do it more than everyone else, and it's already one of the best in the league if not the best, that's Sanchez forte. Mark always plants his feet! I digress...

Flacco is cool under pressure, he smiles on the sideline after a good drive, but I'd like to see more positive emotion from during the game, it really would be a positive for the team as a whole in my opinion. Talking to WR, TE, his Oline, etc. Especially as he is going to be our leader more and more as the season change I'd love to see become more of a vocal leader. I'm hoping it comes naturally to him.
[/quote]

You're not going to convince anyone on here that Flacco is anything less than a God. If you try to, you're considered a Raven hater, and stupid. Trust me... it's definitely the receivers, the offensive line(sorry, couldn't even type that without laughing), or the defense's fault.

[RavensAllTheWay]

[quote name='edreedfromtheu' date='26 February 2010 - 03:02 PM' timestamp='1267210948' post='365419']
You're not going to convince anyone on here that Flacco is anything less than a God. If you try to, you're considered a Raven hater, and stupid. Trust me... it's definitely the receivers, the offensive line(sorry, couldn't even type that without laughing), or the defense's fault.
[/quote]
Well your right to an extent. I agree that the O line's pass prtoection and the WRs weren't nearly as good as we would have hoped last year. And I also believe in Flacco being the future QB of this team. But it sort of iritates me when people make excuses for the QB and blame everyone but the QB when their team loses. I mean I wouldn't say Flacco is the "golden boy" of this team just because he's the QB.

[Alexir]

[quote name='Shawn`' date='26 February 2010 - 01:11 PM' timestamp='1267207883' post='365388']
Quick release is up to the receivers, not the quarterback.

If a receiver doesn't get open quickly enough the QB is obviously not going to throw it earlier than the receiver expects it. Which is why Ray Rice had so many screens and receptions this year.
[/quote]

Like I said, both of which will be fixed when he gets playmakers....but as much as it's the lack of open recievers, We have all witnessed him holding on to the ball way too long when he has someone open. That's why im glad Hue is gone. We need a former NFL QB to tell Flacco how do succeed and Zorn is up there as one of the better ones.

EDIT: Zorn as QB in NFL
[font=sans-serif][size=2]Zorn threw for 21,115 yards and 111 touchdowns, completing 53% of his passes. He also ran for another 17 touchdowns.[sup][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Zorn#cite_note-3"][4][/url][/sup][/size][/font]