Another WR Thread

[Purple Punishment]

Okay there are a million lets get this guy threads. I mean its been everybody from Dwayne Bowe to T.O.

I want to throw something out there to think about. Say we get a few new receivers with better attributes than what we have now. Cam Cameron is still going to run the same gameplan. The same routes will be ran. The same plain old 2WR sets will be used until 3rd down when we finally throw in a slot receiver. I mean, we can go out there and grab any big name we want, but its not hard to cover 2 wideouts on any day, especially when they know we are never going to put the ball over the middle.

Im just saying, we can get someone like Malcom Floyd or Dwayne Bowe or any other available receiver, but with the same play calling nothing will change and the new receiving corp will look the same way on the field as the old one. Our coordinator needs to get it in gear and create a better route tree for this teams receiving corp. It all starts with Cam!

[Twoo]

Not exactly true....

[b]Flacco threw 45% of his passes and accounted for 46% of his passing yards for the season in the first 6 games of the season. Flacco never threw for over 300 yards again after the first 6 weeks.[/b] After week 6 we dramatically changed our game plan and went back to the run and check down passes- primarily because of Flacco's "injury" and Cam realized we couldn't win games on the hands of our receivers.

Cam changed the game plan to suit our teams dynamic. If we bring in a big name receiver expect us to open the 2010 season like we did the 2009 season- on the arm of Joe Flacco.

[Purple Punishment]

I guess we will see my friend because nobody will be getting fooled by the every down come back route

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Purple Punishment' date='09 February 2010 - 07:47 AM' timestamp='1265719675' post='357878']
I guess we will see my friend because nobody will be getting fooled by the every down come back route
[/quote]

You're right but do you really think Cam would've called so many comeback, curl and out-routes if Anquan Boldin or Antonio Bryant was a Raven?

Derrick Mason is a great player but with where he is in his career, the best way he can get separation is on the routes I mentioned. That's why Cam called them so much.

[FlaccoIsHot]

[quote name='Purple Punishment' date='09 February 2010 - 06:31 AM' timestamp='1265715103' post='357866']
Okay there are a million lets get this guy threads. I mean its been everybody from Dwayne Bowe to T.O.

I want to throw something out there to think about. Say we get a few new receivers with better attributes than what we have now. Cam Cameron is still going to run the same gameplan. The same routes will be ran. The same plain old 2WR sets will be used until 3rd down when we finally throw in a slot receiver. I mean, we can go out there and grab any big name we want, but its not hard to cover 2 wideouts on any day, especially when they know we are never going to put the ball over the middle.

Im just saying, we can get someone like Malcom Floyd or Dwayne Bowe or any other available receiver, but with the same play calling nothing will change and the new receiving corp will look the same way on the field as the old one. Our coordinator needs to get it in gear and create a better route tree for this teams receiving corp. It all starts with Cam!
[/quote]

I agree with you. Everyone wants to put the burden on Joe's shoulders for what the offense does next year but to be honest a lot of it should go on Cam. There needs to be better routes and better game planning. The game plan for Indy was awful and hopefully he can find a way to improve on that.

[Bltravens]

Not only that but Cam's system in San Diego was not even close to the route combinations he's using Clayton and Mason with. Cam's playbook right now is like 5 pages deep because of what he can do with the WR's lol.

[Mick0311]

[quote name='FlaccoIsHot' date='09 February 2010 - 10:53 AM' timestamp='1265737994' post='357990']
I agree with you. Everyone wants to put the burden on Joe's shoulders for what the offense does next year but to be honest a lot of it should go on Cam. There needs to be better routes and better game planning. The game plan for Indy was awful and hopefully he can find a way to improve on that.
[/quote]


I think the gameplan for Indy was really the only one that made sense. For whatever reason, Joe was not playing well, be it his hip, or his arm, whatever. Also, the WRs on this team are not that good, save Mason. We basically had a two options; Mason getting open on a curl, and Rice either running or catching. The Indy team took those two out of the game, and we were running in circles.

[FlaccoIsHot]

[quote name='Mick0311' date='09 February 2010 - 02:24 PM' timestamp='1265743492' post='358045']
I think the gameplan for Indy was really the only one that made sense. For whatever reason, Joe was not playing well, be it his hip, or his arm, whatever. Also, the WRs on this team are not that good, save Mason. We basically had a two options; Mason getting open on a curl, and Rice either running or catching. The Indy team took those two out of the game, and we were running in circles.
[/quote]

I disagree and I think Joe would disagree with you as well. I think that is part of what Joe and Cam's argument was on the sideline during the game. The first series was very successful and after that drive Cam became ultra conservative. I do agree with you about the WR's though. They were horrible in that game and for most of the year save Mase.

[cant knock the hustle]

[quote name='Purple Punishment' date='09 February 2010 - 06:31 AM' timestamp='1265715103' post='357866']
Okay there are a million lets get this guy threads. I mean its been everybody from Dwayne Bowe to T.O.

I want to throw something out there to think about. Say we get a few new receivers with better attributes than what we have now. Cam Cameron is still going to run the same gameplan. The same routes will be ran. The same plain old 2WR sets will be used until 3rd down when we finally throw in a slot receiver. I mean, we can go out there and grab any big name we want, but its not hard to cover 2 wideouts on any day, especially when they know we are never going to put the ball over the middle.

Im just saying, we can get someone like Malcom Floyd or Dwayne Bowe or any other available receiver, but with the same play calling nothing will change and the new receiving corp will look the same way on the field as the old one. Our coordinator needs to get it in gear and create a better route tree for this teams receiving corp. It all starts with Cam!
[/quote]

Gameplan is based on personel, for WRs routes are ran to play to their strenghts, that's why you see Kelly over the middle, Derrick on comebacks, etc. Cam is just trying to best exploit our current WR situation. There should be no blame on him.

[Mick0311]

[quote name='FlaccoIsHot' date='09 February 2010 - 12:33 PM' timestamp='1265743982' post='358052']
I disagree and I think Joe would disagree with you as well. I think that is part of what Joe and Cam's argument was on the sideline during the game. The first series was very successful and after that drive Cam became ultra conservative. I do agree with you about the WR's though. They were horrible in that game and for most of the year save Mase.
[/quote]


That's cool, I understand. But I'm gonna have to go with Cam's credentials over the two you just mentioned. Plus, Cam has probably forgot more football than you or I will ever know.

[justifythegame]

[quote name='Purple Punishment' date='09 February 2010 - 06:31 AM' timestamp='1265715103' post='357866']
Okay there are a million lets get this guy threads. I mean its been everybody from Dwayne Bowe to T.O.

I want to throw something out there to think about. Say we get a few new receivers with better attributes than what we have now. Cam Cameron is still going to run the same gameplan. The same routes will be ran. The same plain old 2WR sets will be used until 3rd down when we finally throw in a slot receiver. I mean, we can go out there and grab any big name we want, but its not hard to cover 2 wideouts on any day, especially when they know we are never going to put the ball over the middle.

Im just saying, we can get someone like Malcom Floyd or Dwayne Bowe or any other available receiver, but with the same play calling nothing will change and the new receiving corp will look the same way on the field as the old one. Our coordinator needs to get it in gear and create a better route tree for this teams receiving corp. It all starts with Cam!
[/quote]
no offense but you sound like someone who shouldn't be talking about football. 2 WR sets are used because of a lack of talent at the position. mark clayton, washington and williams are not #2 caliber and barely #3. thats how weak the position is. the coordinator's job is to effectively get the most out of the actual talent he has at his disposal. and in 2 seasons he has done just that. he got the most out of ray rice, mason and flacco. your not going to even get the best OCs in this league like norv turner to get these receivers to perform better than they actually can (and cam was a top 5 OC coming here), its just lack of talent at the position. The plays are being called but when they can't get separation and the qb is forced to dump the ball off, you have to start running the ball more are using your strengths and calling passing plays that the WRs can manage. Cam has set franchise records each year for the offense, all the while with a rookie/2nd year qb and no receivers at his disposal. i mean what more do you want? we saw flashes of greatness from the passing game at the beginning of the season too. But once teams figured out all they had to do was double mason with no #2 caliber or good slot receiver, it was easy to shut down the passing game. you don't just magically create a high powered passing attack overnight, its a project that takes years to develop. and ozzie keeps insisting he wants a running offense not a passing team, even this offseason, and cam has stayed with that philosophy.

[FlaccoIsHot]

[quote name='Mick0311' date='09 February 2010 - 06:00 PM' timestamp='1265756420' post='358142']
That's cool, I understand. But I'm gonna have to go with Cam's credentials over the two you just mentioned. Plus, Cam has probably forgot more football than you or I will ever know.
[/quote]

I'm sorry I'm confused. What two I mentioned?? Cam has forgot more football? What does that mean?

My only point is that my opinion is the gameplan for the Indy game was not good and contributed to the loss.

[jravens13]

I would rather have Rex Ryan as our O-Coordinator. Sounds stupid because Rex has worked Defense his whole life but at least he understands how to win football games. You win running the ball and playing good defense. It is a simple game that Cam tries to complicate. We have one of the best RB's and O-Lines in the game, yet Cam wants Flacco to throw the ball 35+ times. He needs to get over his Flacco man crush and realize that the only number that matters is the final score.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='jravens13' date='09 February 2010 - 09:53 PM' timestamp='1265774004' post='358228']
I would rather have Rex Ryan as our O-Coordinator. Sounds stupid because Rex has worked Defense his whole life but at least he understands how to win football games. You win running the ball and playing good defense. It is a simple game that Cam tries to complicate. We have one of the best RB's and O-Lines in the game, yet Cam wants Flacco to throw the ball 35+ times. He needs to get over his Flacco man crush and realize that the only number that matters is the final score.
[/quote]
Not in this age of football, you need a balance on offense. The Colts ran into both us and the Jets, two teams that play extremely stout defense and run the ball well and they beat us both handily. Since Polian and Dungy cried in 2004 over the Pats punking the Colts receivers at the LOS the league has created a pass happy pass friendly atmosphere.

[jj2020]

Lots of good points made on this post. I would hope Cam would change things up a little if we god some quality WR. He actually is a good OC he has the credentials and with what he has been given and what he has done I am happy. However the Ravens have always been a smash mouth running team that is just what we do here. Why I think things feel down this year was not so much Joes injury or lack of receivers but our defense was not as strong as years past. If your defense allows the other teams to score you have to throw the ball you do not have time to play smash mouth. Baltimore’s pass game is not horrible I would say average but it could not carry us alone like say a team like Indy. Something else I want to say is we do not need an overpriced has been WR (Marshal, Holt, TO ect) look at teams like the Saints, Indy, and Minnesota, they were doing it with rookies good draft picks like Percy Harvin. They just had lots of them and lots of different plays and looks which given the right tools Cam will create for Joe.

[Purple Punishment]

man I really got flamed for giving an open minded opinion. well you can neg me all day but the fact here is and im looking at justifyingthegame

My beef with the statement you made is is that you said Cam called those sets for lack of talent at the position.....i remember Oz saying we didnt need any new receivers and they got us to the AFCCG.....dont you see some irony between those 2 statements???

[FlaccoIsHot]

[quote name='Purple Punishment' date='10 February 2010 - 05:57 AM' timestamp='1265799441' post='358280']
man I really got flamed for giving an open minded opinion. well you can neg me all day but the fact here is and im looking at justifyingthegame

My beef with the statement you made is is that you said Cam called those sets for lack of talent at the position.....i remember Oz saying we didnt need any new receivers and they got us to the AFCCG.....dont you see some irony between those 2 statements???
[/quote]

I agree with you! That's exactly what Ozzie said and it failed big time.

[justifythegame]

[quote name='Purple Punishment' date='10 February 2010 - 05:57 AM' timestamp='1265799441' post='358280']
man I really got flamed for giving an open minded opinion. well you can neg me all day but the fact here is and im looking at justifyingthegame

My beef with the statement you made is is that you said Cam called those sets for lack of talent at the position.....i remember Oz saying we didnt need any new receivers and they got us to the AFCCG.....dont you see some irony between those 2 statements???
[/quote]
When did ozzie say he didn't need any new receivers?? Don't start putting words in his mouth. How many receivers he the organization work out last season? How many potential draft picks like DHB did we work out? Does that tell you he doesn't want new receivers? What about when he made the call to Arizona to see if they would give up Boldin for less than a 2nd rounder? If he said he didn't want a new WR (which he didn't) then he was obviously lying.

He said several times he was looking to improve the WR crops. Things didn't work out with a first round WR because a top 10 pick dropped to us. What he said was he was looking to upgrade the position, but he felt confident with the WRs he already had. Why? Because we lead the NFL in rushing attempts, we are a running team that uses its WRs the least of any position, controlling the clock, and dominating on D. Because Marcus Smith was supposed to be the next Anquan Boldin or something. He was supposed to become the #2 and had high hopes from the franchise. He went on IR. What ozzie has always said is he is looking to improve the WR position (along with many other positions), but he has to evaluate the talent in FA, or find a team that will trade a WR he wants for what he thinks is reasonable. And the way everything worked out, he added youth at D and strengthened the trenches OL and DL because thats how he believes games are won, when something is strong, its natural that another position is weak, like WR, there is a salary cap, and draft positions based on W/L where big name WRs always go in the top 10. Just because we havent had the opportunity to upgrade WR doesnt mean we dont want to improve WR. We are weak at WR and ozzie is more fine with that that than being weak any other position, thats how he has built this team for the last 10 years. But he will try to improve WR this offseason by looking for reasonable trades or hoping a good WR falls to them in the draft.

[darklight1216]

[quote name='justifythegame' date='22 February 2010 - 11:59 AM' timestamp='1266857982' post='363513']
[b]When did ozzie say he didn't need any new receivers??[/b] Don't start putting words in his mouth. How many receivers he the organization work out last season? How many potential draft picks like DHB did we work out? Does that tell you he doesn't want new receivers? What about when he made the call to Arizona to see if they would give up Boldin for less than a 2nd rounder? If he said he didn't want a new WR (which he didn't) then he was obviously lying.
[/quote]
"I will again say this: [u]We went to the AFC championship game with the guys that we had,[/u] and Demetrius was not healthy. We get a healthy Demetrius Williams back -- and he's working toward that -- then with the way we're going to be able to protect it, the way Joe [Flacco] can throw it, the way our running backs can run it, and the way we play defense and special teams, we'll be around at the end of December and January just with the team we have right now. I feel very good about that."

http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/blog/2009/04/does_ozzie_have_a_wide_receiver_up_his_sleeve.html

The funny thing is that we could easily have been just as good as we were in 2008 (regular season, at least) with the same receivers [i]and fewer penalties[/i]. At least two games were lost because of stupid penalties, and if we had won those games (vs Cincy and @ Ptt) we'd have been divisional champions and had an 11-5 record again. But shoulda, woulda, coulda... didn't.

[XxSizzleXx]

[quote name='darklight1216' date='22 February 2010 - 01:56 PM' timestamp='1266868605' post='363612']
"I will again say this: [u]We went to the AFC championship game with the guys that we had,[/u] and Demetrius was not healthy. We get a healthy Demetrius Williams back -- and he's working toward that -- then with the way we're going to be able to protect it, the way Joe [Flacco] can throw it, the way our running backs can run it, and the way we play defense and special teams, we'll be around at the end of December and January just with the team we have right now. I feel very good about that."

http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/blog/2009/04/does_ozzie_have_a_wide_receiver_up_his_sleeve.html

The funny thing is that we could easily have been just as good as we were in 2008 (regular season, at least) with the same receivers [i]and fewer penalties[/i]. At least two games were lost because of stupid penalties, and if we had won those games (vs Cincy and @ Ptt) we'd have been divisional champions and had an 11-5 record again. But shoulda, woulda, coulda... didn't.
[/quote]

+1 just for the sig haha, that was a BEAUTY of a hit. I have no idea how Geno buried that cross ice pass from Semin. Awesome string of plays.

[theFRANCHISE]

[quote name='jravens13' date='09 February 2010 - 10:53 PM' timestamp='1265774004' post='358228']
I would rather have Rex Ryan as our O-Coordinator. Sounds stupid because Rex has worked Defense his whole life but [b]at least he understands how to win football games.[/b] You win running the ball and playing good defense. It is a simple game that Cam tries to complicate. We have one of the best RB's and O-Lines in the game, yet Cam wants Flacco to throw the ball 35+ times. He needs to get over his Flacco man crush and realize that the only number that matters is the final score.
[/quote]
[i]I[/i] understand how to win football games, but that doesn't mean [i]I'm[/i] putting on a headset and a whistle anytime soon. Execution is just as important as the gameplan.

[MJSMOOTH]

Randy Moss to the ravens 2011 yea let go ravens

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='MJSMOOTH' date='22 February 2010 - 06:05 PM' timestamp='1266879906' post='363721']
Randy Moss to the ravens 2011 yea let go ravens
[/quote]

Someone will pay him great money if he hits FA. The Ravens won't.

[Nobi]

All I got to say, is that if a WR can't run a post route what is he doing in the NFL?

Everytime one of our receivers catch the ball he is standing still or running back to the quarterback. I know for a fact our guys can run the fly, flag, and post routes, I've seen them do it. Coaching your QB to throw check downs kind of makes a receiver wary of expending all his energy when he doesn't expect to get the ball anyway.

Point of the thread is valid: Our playbook needs an overhaul. Simple as taking a look at the all the successful offensive teams are doing and making it more Ravenesque and we can do some good things 2010.

[Guest I-70WestRaven]

As much as I don't like to jump into a thread like this one, for the reason Purple Punishment stated, I just have to. I really do beleive that Cam's play calling was limited by the quality of talent he had to work with. Let's not forget that before the debacle in Miami (1-15) he was the O- coordinator of the Chargers. Check the stats, the man ran a mean system. Numbers don't lie and why do you think Miami tabbed him to be their HC? That said, yes I was baffled all season as to why the Ravens would not throw a slant pattern, or a quick hitter like just about every other team in the league. I ain't posting this to dis nobody or anything like that, I would just like to see, if given the talent that everyone knows we need, will this change the play calls? If not, then we definately need to question the man's calls. For now I would just like to give him the weapons, then wait to see the results before throwing him under the bus. > Side note- Jagr needs some Jager after that hit! That is text book jacked up, big time! Sweeet!<

[Clutch Ravens]

Honestly, I believe if we get Cam weapons at the receiver position he will break open the play-book. Why design, draw up, deliberate on, practice and ultimately attempt to execute multi-receiver sets when you do not have the talent level in your personnel to do so? I believe Cam has a number of these plays in his repertoire and once given the right personnel will crack open a deeper play-book and let Flacco torch D's off play-action etc. This year we had one legit receiver in Derek Mason, even Todd Heap was inconsistent. Why attempt to air the ball out with a 2nd year QB that, in reality, has severely limited options? Yes, we may have run the ball too often, but how many times have you heard us Ravens fan complain about that in the past? The league is evolving and the entire organisation knows it. Perhaps, just perhaps, we should have been pre-emptive and pulled the trigger on a Wide out previously, but why tamper with the character of a team that has experienced great success in a short period of time? I believe we finally get our receiver(s) this year and Cameron takes the stabilisers off the offense. We have the D, we have the o-line, we have the running game, we have the Quarterback and we will likely have the receivers going in to training camp. If we reduce the penalties while phasing in a vertical passing game there will be no team in the NFL that we can't go toe-to-toe with.

[B'MOR3 FIN35T]

So the ravens signed another felon haha, i love stallworth and think it was a good pick up but we still need a top notch receiver obvviously as everyone has said. We still need a Brandon Barshall or Vincent Jackson we cant be done yet and happy with one WR who hasnt played in a season. Clayton, Williams, and Wahington all need to go

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='B'MOR3 FIN35T' date='23 February 2010 - 10:34 AM' timestamp='1266939287' post='363976']
So the ravens signed another felon haha, i love stallworth and think it was a good pick up but we still need a top notch receiver obvviously as everyone has said. We still need a Brandon Barshall or Vincent Jackson we cant be done yet and happy with one WR who hasnt played in a season. Clayton, Williams, and Wahington all need to go
[/quote]

The Ravens will likely make another move for a WR in FA or through a trade.

However, forget about V-Jax. SD is going to make him a rich man.