1st Two Years: Billick And Harbaugh?

[hammer]

Both had identical records of 20-12 for the first two years.
Harbaugh made the playoffs in both years.
Billick made the playoffs 1 of 2 years.
Billick had the Super Bowl in his second year.
Harbaugh had Flacco both years.
Billick had Tony Banks the first year and Trent Dilfer the 2nd.

[b]You choose, which had the most promise after the first two years.

Billick or Harbaugh?[/b]

[J-man]

They seem almost identical because both have their goods and okays. I believe Harbaugh is better at coaching, and Billick had a bundle of good coaches around him, and it seems like all the coaches from 2000 were able to get head coaching jobs somewhere.

[hammer]

[quote name='J-man' date='08 February 2010 - 01:03 PM' timestamp='1265648602' post='357317']
They seem almost identical because both have their goods and okays. I believe Harbaugh is better at coaching, and Billick had a bundle of good coaches around him, and it seems like all the coaches from 2000 were able to get head coaching jobs somewhere.
[/quote]

Interesting observation. I can agree with that.

[Alexir]

[quote name='hammer' date='08 February 2010 - 11:58 AM' timestamp='1265648316' post='357315']
Both had identical records of 20-12 for the first two years.
Harbaugh made the playoffs in both years.
Billick made the playoffs 1 of 2 years.
[b]Billick had the Super Bowl in his second year.[/b]
Harbaugh had Flacco both years.
Billick had Tony Banks the first year and Trent Dilfer the 2nd.

[b]You choose, which had the most promise after the first two years.

Billick or Harbaugh?[/b]
[/quote]

You said it yourself....

Although I will say we had much better talent than then we do now on defense.

[darklight1216]

Billick led the Ravens to their best regular season record, at the time, and then won the SuperBowl. What else needs to be said?

Edit: Okay, I guess you could mention how Harbaugh became the first rookie HC to win two playoff games with a rookie qb and then had a repeat appearance the next year. However, he also went from 11-5 to 9-7. That's a downward trend that is not as promising as the upward one that Billick produced.

[Jamal]

Harbaugh because Billick had a lot more talent. Harbs has an average/below average offense, and a solid defense. Billick had the best defense of all time.

[hammer]

[quote name='J-man' date='08 February 2010 - 01:03 PM' timestamp='1265648602' post='357317']
They seem almost identical because both have their goods and okays. I believe Harbaugh is better at coaching, and Billick had a bundle of good coaches around him, and it seems like all the coaches from 2000 were able to get head coaching jobs somewhere.
[/quote]

On second thought, The defensive coaches excelled, but I really can't endorse Billicks offensive coaches as "good." I think his offensive coordinator was Matt Cavenaugh for the first two years.

[Mick0311]

Yeah, you're kinda leaving out a key component; the prolific 2000-2001 defense.

[hammer]

[quote name='Mick0311' date='08 February 2010 - 03:42 PM' timestamp='1265658122' post='357433']
Yeah, you're kinda leaving out a key component; the prolific 2000-2001 defense.
[/quote]

Are you giving Billick credit for the proliffic defense or are you suggesting that theh defense made Billick success in spite of, rather than because of.

[McBurks]

Harbs is building a dynasty which will lead us to many playoff oppurtunities and Superbowls.

[BuckWilds]

[quote name='Alexir' date='08 February 2010 - 12:47 PM' timestamp='1265651256' post='357342']
You said it yourself....

Although I will say we had much better talent than then we do now on defense.
[/quote]

Results and promise are two different things.

[theFRANCHISE]

[quote name='Zhamtao' date='08 February 2010 - 04:05 PM' timestamp='1265663106' post='357482']
Results and promise are two different things.
[/quote]
Precisely.

Billick had more results, Harbaugh had more promise. Billick's Super Bowl win (because of Marvin Lewis' defense) outweighs the promise of Harbaugh by default. That doesn't mean Harbaugh's tenure won't pan out, though.

Even if Harbaugh isn't the man to win us a Super Bowl (though I believe he will), he's building a foundation that will keep this team in the hunt and eventually win more than one in the years to come.

[hammer]

[quote name='Zhamtao' date='08 February 2010 - 05:05 PM' timestamp='1265663106' post='357482']
Results and promise are two different things.
[/quote]

That's true.... and Promise is the exact word I intended to use. Actually, I graded the results as a wash, due to Harbaughs two rookie playoff appearances versus Billicks SuperBowl.

The question is.....going forward, which future painted the brighter picture? Interestingly enough, I thought Billick would find a half decent QB and offensive coordinator, then win the next five superbowls in a row (just kidding).

[POE]

I would have to say Harbaugh here. I loved Billick and the way he seemed to put himself on the same level with the players but with the way our D was built Brian couldn't properly form the offense to take pressure off the D which would have made us contenders year after year. Harbaugh and company are building the foundation for success for many years to come and it is already showing with back to back playoff berths.

[RedFire]

[quote name='POE' date='08 February 2010 - 05:18 PM' timestamp='1265667526' post='357515']
I would have to say Harbaugh here. I loved Billick and the way he seemed to put himself on the same level with the players but with the way our D was built Brian couldn't properly form the offense to take pressure off the D which would have made us contenders year after year. Harbaugh and company are building the foundation for success for many years to come and it is already showing with back to back playoff berths.
[/quote]


or...ozzie newsome is making better decisions now in days when it comes to personel.

I don't think it has much to do with the coaching....it has to do with the wizard of oz decision making! hmmmm....

[H8R]

Super Bowl outweighs anything that Harbs has done, though I'll say that if Harbs can get us back to the playoffs next year that would be a record for the Ravens and mean a lot to the Organization.

[MagicianCamille]

I still miss Billick's wit. He was a fun guy to watch on the sideline and in front of the press.

I don't think you can argue with Harbaugh getting us to the post-season twice in a row his first two years though.

[Mick0311]

[quote name='hammer' date='08 February 2010 - 01:04 PM' timestamp='1265659476' post='357454']
Are you giving Billick credit for the proliffic defense or are you suggesting that theh defense made Billick success in spite of, rather than because of.
[/quote]


I wouldn't say "in spite of", but it skews the outcome a bit don't ya think? I think this is a question that can't be answered because there are no real constants.

[charchboii]

[quote name='J-man' date='08 February 2010 - 01:03 PM' timestamp='1265648602' post='357317']
They seem almost identical because both have their goods and okays. I believe Harbaugh is better at coaching, and Billick had a bundle of good coaches around him, and it seems like all the coaches from 2000 were able to get head coaching jobs somewhere.
[/quote]
dude ur so rite

[JO_75]

[quote name='theFRANCHISE' date='08 February 2010 - 04:13 PM' timestamp='1265663594' post='357488']
Precisely.

Billick had more results, Harbaugh had more promise. Billick's Super Bowl win (because of Marvin Lewis' defense) outweighs the promise of Harbaughhttp://boards.baltimoreravens.com/index.php?app=forums&module=post&section=post&do=reply_post&f=6&t=19289&qpid=357488 by default. That doesn't mean Harbaugh's tenure won't pan out, though.

Even if Harbaugh isn't the man to win us a Super Bowl (though I believe he will), he's building a foundation that will keep this team in the hunt and eventually win more than one in the years to come.
[/quote]

This is a tough one, both have their postives and negatives. Yes, Billick did guide us to 12-4 which was our best record at the time and got us a Super Bowl, Harbaugh on the other hand took us to the playoffs back to back at 11-5 & 9-7. Though it sucked to get in at 9-7, like someone said that's a downward trend. There was alot of promise for Billick after his second year because his second year was our Super Bowl victory, so alot of us expected more to follow. With Harbaugh, I see more promise following his second year because he's done more to set us up for the future than Billick did.

We have alot of young guys at key positions that help win a football game, a young solid O-line something we never had under Billick.,young defensive players like Ngata, Ellerbe, Landry and Kruger and most importantly the biggest position, is that we have a Franchise QB in Joe Flacco, something we could never find with Billick. So Harbaugh wins and I wouldn't be surprised to see this team in Super Bowl 45 next year when the off-season is over with.

[Yooniboy]

yeahh
harbough is rebuilding the team to a dynasty, and billick already had one
billicks defence was world class

[RavensClaw52]

I will always be a Billick supporter but I am going out on a limb here and say Harbs. Despite the record, playoffs are playoffs, the Titans were a 13-3 wild card team when they went to the superbowl, so I could care less as long as we make a playoff run because sooner or later, odds are we are going to get a chance to hoist another trophy.

[POE]

[quote name='RedFire' date='08 February 2010 - 05:26 PM' timestamp='1265667987' post='357521']
or...ozzie newsome is making better decisions now in days when it comes to personel.

I don't think it has much to do with the coaching....it has to do with the wizard of oz decision making! hmmmm....
[/quote]

No, as Ozzie and company are very good, perhaps one of the best in the league, at scouting and doing their part of the whole process, the coaches have a lot of input as well. The front office doesn't just go picking guys that they think can just play, they meet with the coaches about these players to see if they are coachable, if they will work in the system in place, and find out what role they will have on the team. I don't think Oz and company would have given away draft picks for Kyle Boller if Billick hadn't of had the influence he had at the time, but because Billick and his staff thought Boller would fit in their system they took a shot and that was the beginning of the end of Brian Billick.

[Purple Punishment]

Exactly. I am not going to look at records and Super Bowl victories. Billick inherited that defense and we all know our defense carried us many times in 2000. There were a few games where our only points came from Mr. AutoMATTic.

John Harbaugh is bringing in young talented individuals and setting this team up for the long haul.

Harbs is my choice

[darklight1216]

[quote name='Purple Punishment' date='09 February 2010 - 07:57 AM' timestamp='1265720270' post='357879']
Exactly. I am not going to look at records and Super Bowl victories. [b]Billick inherited that defense[/b] and we all know our defense carried us many times in 2000. There were a few games where our only points came from Mr. AutoMATTic.

John Harbaugh is bringing in young talented individuals and setting this team up for the long haul.

Harbs is my choice
[/quote]
Harbaugh didn't inherit a good defense?

[POE]

[quote name='darklight1216' date='09 February 2010 - 11:54 AM' timestamp='1265734449' post='357946']
Harbaugh didn't inherit a good defense?
[/quote]

The answer is yes, John did inherit a good D but Brian inherited a great D and maybe the best ever. The big difference though is that Billick couldn't continue the trend and help build a great team and balance out the offensive side of the ball. Harbaugh and company seem to be heading in the right direction and we finally have some balance and it looks to only get better.

[FlaccoIsHot]

Comparing the 2 has never crossed my mind. I am grateful for the Superbowl championship that Billick brought us but I don't regret having Harbs here at all. In fact I really like Harbs and for the 1st time in awhile I feel like we are heading in the right direction.

[Ed_Reed20]

I would say Harbaugh's first two years have been more promising. There is so much young talent on this team on both sides of the ball and they've managed to make and advance in the play-offs despite dealing with injuries and a serious lack of production at certain positions.

[CustomUserName]

[quote name='MagicianCamille' date='08 February 2010 - 05:33 PM' timestamp='1265668418' post='357527']
I still miss Billick's wit.
[/quote]

Man, now I miss Billick. I mean this quote says it all, and I don't feel like the Ravens will get memorable quotes like this one from Harbaugh.

"When you go in the lions den you don't tippy toe in, you carry a spear, you go in screaming like a banshee, you kick whatever doors in, and say, 'where's the son of *****.' If you go in any other way your gonna lose."

All things aside, I think Harbaugh has laid the foundation on Offense for a dynasty, and if not a dynasty then certainly perennial play-off contenders, with the young O-line, Ray Rice, and Flacco. I also think Harbaugh works with talent better, albeit might just be Cam or someone else behind the scenes.

[darklight1216]

[quote name='CustomUserName' date='09 February 2010 - 07:40 PM' timestamp='1265762421' post='358175']
Man, now I miss Billick. I mean this quote says it all, and [b]I don't feel like the Ravens will get memorable quotes like this one from Harbaugh.[/b]

"When you go in the lions den you don't tippy toe in, you carry a spear, you go in screaming like a banshee, you kick whatever doors in, and say, 'where's the son of *****.' If you go in any other way your gonna lose."

All things aside, I think Harbaugh has laid the foundation on Offense for a dynasty, and if not a dynasty then certainly perennial play-off contenders, with the young O-line, Ray Rice, and Flacco. I also think Harbaugh works with talent better, albeit might just be Cam or someone else behind the scenes.
[/quote]
Harbs doesn't give memorable quotes?
http://www.baltimoreravens.com/media_library/Videos/2009/01/Playoff_Intro_Titans.aspx?q=2009%7cPlayoffs%7cPostseason%7cJanuary%7cHighlights%7cVideos%7cTennessee%2bTitans%7cDivisional%2bat%2bTitans&p=2&id=fbef57ecf1144e4bb5f1b23e62dccd8c

With that in mind, does anyone else think that last year's playoff videos were cooler than this years?

http://www.baltimoreravens.com/media_library/Videos/2009/01/Intro_Video_AFC_Championship.aspx?id=908cbb48e19a4c0e899976c7a80f9871