Why The Harbaugh Hate?

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Tighthead420' date='20 January 2010 - 04:53 PM' timestamp='1264024393' post='347859']
Wow...first I never repped you...get a grip.

Second, I never said anyone quit, and I still don't buy it, regardless of who was playing. But if you still think beating the Raiders/Detroit/Bears means the Ravens truly earned it, fine. All I meant was they had to beat the Colts (Manning less is somewhat meaningless) and we had to beat the 3 crap teams we faced. I don't know if the rant was aimed at me, but check yourself before calling people names (isn't that against code?)
[/quote]

I don't care about rep. It's when people do it just because someone has a different point of view than theirs.

The Raider, Detroit and Bears might have been crap teams but they're NFL teams and even had some big wins during the season. The Ravens took care of business when another team(like the Steelers) might have choked.

And what do you mean the Jets beating Colts team without Manning is meaningless? The Colts are a completely different team without Manning. And it wasn't just Manning who was pulled but the rest of the starters.

Finally, my rant was aimed at you if you gave me a negative rep for no reason.

[Tighthead420]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' date='20 January 2010 - 05:02 PM' timestamp='1264024971' post='347863']


The Raider, Detroit and Bears might have been crap teams but they're NFL teams and even had some big wins during the season. The Ravens took care of business when another team(like the Steelers) might have choked.

And what do you mean the Jets beating Colts team without Manning is meaningless? The Colts are a completely different team without Manning. And it wasn't just Manning who was pulled but the rest of the starters.

Finally, my rant was aimed at you if you gave me a negative rep for no reason.
[/quote]

I never neg. you...like I said, which is why I was confused. If you don't beleive me...fine I couldn't care less, but if you would like I can neg you now...I still have some left for the day.

It's the NFL, no team quits no matter who is playing...well...maybe an 0-15 team. I never said they were the same team either...that's your point, which is valid. But you said they quit, which I still don't buy. I am sure the non-starters were trying as hard as any NFL player out there. So...to re-cap, the Colts are not the same, a sub-par team if you will, without Manning and Co. So you agree there? So the Ravens played several sub par teams...see where I am going? The Jets and Ravens had similar playoff runs, and neither earned it more than the other.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Tighthead420' date='20 January 2010 - 05:21 PM' timestamp='1264026088' post='347872']
It's the NFL, no team quits no matter who is playing...well...maybe an 0-15 team. I never said they were the same team either...that's your point, which is valid. But you said they quit, which I still don't buy. I am sure the non-starters were trying as hard as any NFL player out there. So...to re-cap, the Colts are not the same, a sub-par team if you will, without Manning and Co. So you agree there? So the Ravens played several sub par teams...see where I am going? The Jets and Ravens had similar playoff runs, and neither earned it more than the other.
[/quote]

I don't see how you could compare the Colts' back-ups and practice squad fodder to the Bears, Lions and Jets but that's beside the point. I've never argued which team earned their place nor have I said they didn't deserve to advance to the play-offs.

I'm really just irked by the situation because I really don't think the Jets would have won had Peyton played the whole game.

It's not a big deal though. We'll see if the Jets can really beat Indy this Sunday.

[RavensAllTheWay]

[quote name='Tighthead420' date='20 January 2010 - 04:43 PM' timestamp='1264020209' post='347809']
If the Jets advance, or even win it all, get ready for the we-should-have-made-rex-HC threads out the wazoo.
[/quote]
You are not kidding. But I'm sticking by Harbaugh and refusing to take Rex Ryan's side.

[MagicianCamille]

It wouldn't matter who our head coach was or what he was doing, there'd still be some people who would nitpick and call for his head.

[BuckWilds]

[quote name='Tighthead420' date='20 January 2010 - 04:53 PM' timestamp='1264024393' post='347859']
Wow...first I never repped you...get a grip.

Second, I never said anyone quit, and I still don't buy it, regardless of who was playing. But if you still think beating the Raiders/Detroit/Bears means the Ravens truly earned it, fine. All I meant was they had to beat the Colts (Manning less is somewhat meaningless) and we had to beat the 3 crap teams we faced. I don't know if the rant was aimed at me, but check yourself before calling people names (isn't that against code?)
[/quote]

If a team makes it into the playoffs, then beats the higher seeded team they played at that team's stadium, they earned it.

All of this 'didn't earn it' and 'didn't deserve it' crap is getting old. If you're in, you deserve it unless you juiced your way to all your wins.

[hammer]

First of all, trying to engage in a objective dialogue on this board about Harbaugh's performance is like trying to offer criticism of Captain Kirk at a Star Trek Convention.

Actually, this forum environment often becomes unimaginative, boring and repetitive as you read the same threads sounding like a Ravens commercial looped back over and over and over. Fan objectivity and critical review is all but supressed with cronyism and neg-reps, giving the phony image of stage props with painted on smiles at the Star Trek Convention.

The fans on this board often resemble a bunch of immature groupies rather than objective football fans. Very little objective discussion takes place on this board, so how you determine Harbaugh Hate on this board totally evades me.

But since you asked the question, let me say that NO ONE ON THIS BOARD HATE'S HARBAUGH. The question is so dumb and even the justification of the question is dumber.

Harbaugh was hired as an inexperienced head coach after a losing season where the players flat out quit on Billick. Whatever weaknesses he had could not have possibly been assessed because he had never coached higher than special teams.

Last year, he had Rex and Cam doing all the work as it related to communicating to the players and the players gave him a chance. Flacco also developed quicker than expected under Cam and Hue Jackson and the Ravens became competitive again.

[b]Because this happened all on Harbaughs watch, it IS FAIR to give him the credit for all of the positive outcomes of the team over the last two years. However, Harbaugh has ALSO shown early weaknesses in the following areas:[/b]

[b]1. Player Development [/b]- It took way too long to get the young productive players on the field such as Webb and Barnes. I still don't know whatever happened to LJ Smith once he got healed and Demitrius Williams got buried to the point of uselessness.

[b]2. Player Communications [/b]- Nothing wrong with the doghouse, if the party knows he is in the doghouse. To put players in the doghouse without communicating why, when, for what and for how long, tends to confuse rather than correct behavior.

[b]3. Timeout Management [/b]- Obvious Harbaugh needs to spend some time studying great sideline coaches like Tom Landry or Joe Gibbs or even Bill Belichek for that matter.

[b]4. Player Discipline [/b]- Too many penalties and Ed Reed is still doing anything he wants on the field (ie. Lateralling the ball after ints).

[b]5. Official Challenges [/b]- The benchmark of leadership is set not by what you know, but by what you OUTTA know. Harbaugh needs to have a plan to get good information on official challenges. Either his booth personnel are not good, or his sideline coaches are not into the game, or the players are not coached to assist in this area. This is an important function of the HC and he has come up short on more than one occasion.

So there you have it from at least one fans perspective. This still doesn't mean that Harbaugh is a bad coach, it just means that he has room to improve. After all we brought him in with no experience and no one expected this to be without peaks and valleys.

[Moderator 2]

Actually i agree with you hammer, I am not into the Cub Scout rah rah stuff, heck when I was a den mother for my sons pack I was the one in the back of the room rolling her eyes--but thats me-- but does that make him a bad coach--nope.
He and the staff do need to work on clock and time management and those Bleepyity bleep penalties.
After the Colts game I could see why Williams was in the doghouse, when Mattison was getting all the heat because the D was not gelling, Harbs was right --he [b]IS[/b] a good coach, he is just not Rex or Marvin or even Mike Nolan.
I have no problem for him not thowing the players under the bus when they have a bad game, I would respect him less if he did so.

[BuckWilds]

[quote name='hammer' date='21 January 2010 - 02:44 AM' timestamp='1264059890' post='348297']
First of all, trying to engage in a objective dialogue on this board about Harbaugh's performance is like trying to offer criticism of Captain Kirk at a Star Trek Convention.

Actually, this forum environment often becomes unimaginative, boring and repetitive as you read the same threads sounding like a Ravens commercial looped back over and over and over. Fan objectivity and critical review is all but supressed with cronyism and neg-reps, giving the phony image of stage props with painted on smiles at the Star Trek Convention.

The fans on this board often resemble a bunch of immature groupies rather than objective football fans. Very little objective discussion takes place on this board, so how you determine Harbaugh Hate on this board totally evades me.

But since you asked the question, let me say that NO ONE ON THIS BOARD HATE'S HARBAUGH. The question is so dumb and even the justification of the question is dumber.

Harbaugh was hired as an inexperienced head coach after a losing season where the players flat out quit on Billick. Whatever weaknesses he had could not have possibly been assessed because he had never coached higher than special teams.

Last year, he had Rex and Cam doing all the work as it related to communicating to the players and the players gave him a chance. Flacco also developed quicker than expected under Cam and Hue Jackson and the Ravens became competitive again.

[b]Because this happened all on Harbaughs watch, it IS FAIR to give him the credit for all of the positive outcomes of the team over the last two years. However, Harbaugh has ALSO shown early weaknesses in the following areas:[/b]

[b]1. Player Development [/b]- It took way too long to get the young productive players on the field such as Webb and Barnes. I still don't know whatever happened to LJ Smith once he got healed and Demitrius Williams got buried to the point of uselessness.

[b]2. Player Communications [/b]- Nothing wrong with the doghouse, if the party knows he is in the doghouse. To put players in the doghouse without communicating why, when, for what and for how long, tends to confuse rather than correct behavior.

[b]3. Timeout Management [/b]- Obvious Harbaugh needs to spend some time studying great sideline coaches like Tom Landry or Joe Gibbs or even Bill Belichek for that matter.

[b]4. Player Discipline [/b]- Too many penalties and Ed Reed is still doing anything he wants on the field (ie. Lateralling the ball after ints).

[b]5. Official Challenges [/b]- The benchmark of leadership is set not by what you know, but by what you OUTTA know. Harbaugh needs to have a plan to get good information on official challenges. Either his booth personnel are not good, or his sideline coaches are not into the game, or the players are not coached to assist in this area. This is an important function of the HC and he has come up short on more than one occasion.

So there you have it from at least one fans perspective. This still doesn't mean that Harbaugh is a bad coach, it just means that he has room to improve. After all we brought him in with no experience and no one expected this to be without peaks and valleys.
[/quote]

You're trying to pass yourself off as the voice of objectivity? Sorry buddy, not happening, no matter how many mods support your post calling the community a "bunch of immature groupies" and saying they ask "dumb" questions. Funny thing is, you make some good points, then mix them in with unsupported, subjective opinions.

The posts based on less than all the information both support and 'hate on' Harbaugh - criticism does not equate to objectivity and praise is not necessarily subjective. Examples and evidence are the only things that remove any significant amount of subjectivity from an opinion... and I see a mixed bag of objective and subjective commentary/ideas in your post.

Facts are your friend. People you call 'groupies' and 'dumb' usually aren't. Do yourself a favor and provide some facts and details if you're going to lay into the rest of the posters... then at least you won't look like that which you condemn.

[Guest RBates]

wow alot of you really love Harbaugh. My opinion is different I love certain things and hate others.
Love:

1.Passion for the game
2.Love his enthusiasm for his players
3.Love the way he persuades the media into not asking him certain questions
4.Love who he brought in to be his offensive coordinator
5.love that he's a nice guy

Hate:

1.Hate the way he avoids questions in the media
2.Hate the nice guy routine when trying to coach a hard nosed team.
3.Hate the poor clock management
4. Hate that i feel as though, if he had to coach an aspect of the game ex. (Offense or defense)I don't think that he could.
5.Hate that he does not mention in the media when someone is playing bad.
6.Hate the fact that in blowout games you don't let your second string QB get any playing time.
7.Hate that it took half a season to find a field goal kicker.
8.Hate that you would play an injured Flacco over a healthy Troy Smith

Now to address these posts: you guys say that Rex Ryan inherited a good team: so did Harbaugh. We are a Super Bowl caliber team if you bring Rex back and keep Cam but that won't happen so why worry. We had a decent backup for Ed Reed if you had kept Rex in Jim Leonard. Again the past is the past. You guys like Harbaugh, well me to. Because he's a nice guy but nice guys finish last in football, sorry this is not a nice guys game. Perhaps in tennis or golf these attributes can be admired but not in a gladiators game. These men are warriors not a great group of guys that's a battlefield not a football field learn the verbiage and i think Harbaugh will be a good coach . The growing pains are killing me though.

[HoCoRaven]

I love Harbaugh. Great coach, and he's all about winning and focusing. All we need is a big, physical, fast reciever...we'll have a championship team. We need to get more pressure on these quarterbacks too. Harbaugh does a great job, we just need a little more talent

[hammer]

[quote name='Zhamtao' date='21 January 2010 - 05:17 AM' timestamp='1264065443' post='348305']
You're trying to pass yourself off as the voice of objectivity? Sorry buddy, not happening, no matter how many mods support your post calling the community a "bunch of immature groupies" and saying they ask "dumb" questions. Funny thing is, you make some good points, then mix them in with unsupported, subjective opinions.

The posts based on less than all the information both support and 'hate on' Harbaugh - criticism does not equate to objectivity and praise is not necessarily subjective. Examples and evidence are the only things that remove any significant amount of subjectivity from an opinion... and I see a mixed bag of objective and subjective commentary/ideas in your post.

Facts are your friend. People you call 'groupies' and 'dumb' usually aren't. Do yourself a favor and provide some facts and details if you're going to lay into the rest of the posters... then at least you won't look like that which you condemn.
[/quote]

Honestly, if you REALLY don't understand what I am talking about, then the point if MOOT to debate it with you. Groupies and Trekkies represent the worst of "Obsessive and/or Compulsive Behaviors."

Any sports fan who can't accept criticism of a particular player or coach IS A GROUPIE! PERIOD. If the shoe fits,,,,,,,,,,,then wear it. But don't go blaming the MODS for your insecurities. That only validates my argument.

[BuckWilds]

[quote name='hammer' date='22 January 2010 - 02:34 AM' timestamp='1264145663' post='348918']
Honestly, if you REALLY don't understand what I am talking about, then the point if MOOT to debate it with you. Groupies and Trekkies represent the worst of "Obsessive and/or Compulsive Behaviors."

Any sports fan who can't accept criticism of a particular player or coach IS A GROUPIE! PERIOD. If the shoe fits,,,,,,,,,,,then wear it. But don't go blaming the MODS for your insecurities. That only validates my argument.
[/quote]

Actually, I'll deal with your tendencies to insult people and arrogantly assume in private from now on. You keep calling people "dumb" and "groupies" if you want.

[RavensAllTheWay]

[quote name='Zhamtao' date='22 January 2010 - 06:12 PM' timestamp='1264198327' post='349183']
Actually, I'll deal with your tendencies to insult people and arrogantly assume in private from now on. You keep calling people "dumb" and "groupies" if you want.
[/quote]
I don't understand all this hostility. Why is it unavoidable on this board?

[BirdWatcher]

[quote name='RavensAllTheWay' date='22 January 2010 - 05:28 PM' timestamp='1264199308' post='349186']
I don't understand all this hostility. Why is it unavoidable on this board?
[/quote]

Because not everyone in the world is nice. Some people find it difficult to accept the fact that not everyone agrees with everything they post.

[PSU RAVEN]

[quote name='RavensAllTheWay' date='22 January 2010 - 05:28 PM' timestamp='1264199308' post='349186']
I don't understand all this hostility. Why is it unavoidable on this board?
[/quote]

In the pre-season I merely asked if Troy Smith has improved as a QB and all hell broke loose

[PSU RAVEN]

I like Harbaugh

I think he represents the Ravens well.

My only criticism is that with all of the talk about discipline the team still commits a lot of personal fouls.

I assume this will get worked out as he puts more of his imprint on the team, but the team he talks about and the one that is on the field are not the same.

[BuckWilds]

[quote name='RavensAllTheWay' date='22 January 2010 - 05:28 PM' timestamp='1264199308' post='349186']
I don't understand all this hostility. Why is it unavoidable on this board?
[/quote]

It's unavoidable in life really... people disagree and the internet provides a degree of anonymity... thus people telling others they're "dumb" is easier. Besides, growth and adaptation don't occur without a little bit of chaos.

[theFRANCHISE]

[quote name='Zhamtao' date='21 January 2010 - 04:17 AM' timestamp='1264065443' post='348305']
You're trying to pass yourself off as the voice of objectivity? Sorry buddy, not happening, [b]no matter how many mods support your post calling the community a "bunch of immature groupies" and saying they ask "dumb" questions.[/b] Funny thing is, you make some good points, then mix them in with unsupported, subjective opinions.
[/quote]
I never said[i] I[/i] supported it.

[ravenz_fan]

[quote name='theFRANCHISE' date='20 January 2010 - 11:20 AM' timestamp='1264004412' post='347604']
Though a few of your points will probably be debated up-and-down, the one big point I can wholeheartedly agree on is the reality that the inmates would've ran the asylum had Rex taken over as head coach here. Again, a players' coach was NOT what such an undisciplined team needed.

Granted, this year's ridiculous amount of penalties point to signs of an undisiciplined team again, but there's two levels of discipline: there's the kind that can be fixed (focus), and there's the kind that can't be fixed (temper.) Pass interference and false starts are a mark of focus, whereas unnecessary roughness is a mark of temper. There's been far fewer unnecessary roughness calls against our guys this season, and there hasn't been a meltdown of Patriot-like proportions from 2007. No flags being thrown in the stands, no helmets being thrown in the direction of other players, no hands being put on the officials, no players being ejected, etc.

The most damning piece of evidence that this team is much-improved? In almost every regular season loss, the game was decided in the final 5 minutes and by no more than a possession (save for the Green Bay game, lost by 13, and the second Bengals game, lost by 10.) Teams in years past would've packed it up or would've simply let things get more out of hand.
[/quote]
i really like harbaugh,, i also feel he needs a lil more disipline on the team but hes doing a great job otherwise

[hammer]

I repeat my point that since I have been visiting this board, I have noticed the transiency of most of the thoughtful posters. I used to wonder why until I realized how imature a lot of the participants on the board are.

They lobby and bait the Moderators to close threads they don't agree with [b](and some of the Moderators naively play into this silly game). [/b]They lobby other posters like politicians to flame other peoples posts they don't agree with or criticism of favorite players. They have even made a mockery of the rep system to the point that it serves no meaningful purpose at all.

Like I said, the board has as much imagination and genuineness as a "Star-Trek" Convention - with Ravens commercials being blared over loudspeakers and looped end on end without pause. Most thoughts appear scripted, phoney and conformed to a pre-accepted cheer, even for poor performance.

I have said before that I really believe there is an age bias or maturity bias on the board. Some kids still believe in Santa Claus and only "Bad People" could possibly blow his cover.

I don't know ANY football fans WHO AGREE ON EVERYTHING. To do so would take all of the fun out of it for me, at least.

[b]1. I hope that next year provides us as fans, a forum which is open, transparent and objective in dialogue.

2. I am hoping that the "bigger-tent, richness of dialogue, and tolerance for alternative thought" will lead to reduced transciency with mature and thoughtful participants for 2010.

3. I am hoping that the Ravens will re-invest just a drop of their profits back into the fan forum so that we can have a full staff of Moderators who are trained and recieve, at least a small stipend (cash), recognition for excellence, and a uniformed application of rules.

4. I am hoping for a "timely death of the neg-rep" system, as it has been reduced to nothing more than an emotional "pacifier" to the socially pathethic, and literary challenged.[/b]

[BuckWilds]

[quote name='theFRANCHISE' date='22 January 2010 - 08:21 PM' timestamp='1264209689' post='349252']
I never said[i] I[/i] supported it.
[/quote]

I know,

I just didn't want him to take 2's validation of some of his good points as agreeing with the wholesale tearing down of the boards as being full of mindless 'Harbaughites'. The tone was very much, "If you don't agree with me I'm going to classify you this way and then take my ball and go home." There really are objective ways to look at all sides of the argument, as you well know.

I just have this Saturday Night Live: Weekend Update "Really?" skit running through my head every time someone calls everyone else around them something akin to a moron. Something like, "Really? You're going to go down that road? Really?"

Darn it... I've gone and spoken too much again...

[theFRANCHISE]

[quote name='hammer' date='22 January 2010 - 11:05 PM' timestamp='1264219500' post='349328']
[b]1. I hope that next year provides us as fans, a forum which is open, transparent and objective in dialogue.

2. I am hoping that the "bigger-tent, richness of dialogue, and tolerance for alternative thought" will lead to reduced transciency with mature and thoughtful participants for 2010.

3. I am hoping that the Ravens will re-invest just a drop of their profits back into the fan forum so that we can have a full staff of Moderators who are trained and recieve, at least a small stipend (cash), recognition for excellence, and a uniformed application of rules.

4. I am hoping for a "timely death of the neg-rep" system, as it has been reduced to nothing more than an emotional "pacifier" to the socially pathethic, and literary challenged.[/b]
[/quote]
1) The forum is open and objective in dialogue, at least from what we regulars have seen.

2) Keep in mind, this is an all-ages site; the level of maturity may not be what you are used to, but please don't assume that there still is not a level of maturity acceptable for the members who frequent this board often.

3) I don't know what you mean by "training," but if we were all hand-picked by the team and have had no complaints from our superiors whenever an issue has arisen, we're probably doing our jobs right. You may not like how we handle things, but it's not as if we're ruling with an iron fist or supressing free speech to the point that people are afraid to speak up. It's also common practice within the NFL to have a staff of volunteers for their Moderators. If you think [i]we're[/i] doing a bad job, just look at the hail of criticism that Indy's Moderators have gotten recently.

4) This is the only point I will agree with you on, mainly because I never approved of it to begin with -- but it's not easy to remove because of how it's embedded in the board's software. To remove it would be to take the entire Ravens website (not just the board) offline for an extended period of time -- possibly days, depending on the licensing firm from which the software was obtained. It'd also be taxing to the servers to make such a casual change, I assume.

[FlaccoIsHot]

no Harbaugh hate here. I really like Harbaugh. Just like sometimes we have to remember that Joe was only a 2nd year QB the same can be said about Harbaugh. Just his 2nd year as a head coach and already has a great record and 2 play off berths. I'd say that's pretty good and he's only going to get better.

I really think the expectations for this year may have been too high. The only thing that could top last year would have been to go to the superbowl. It is really hard to get to the title game in back to back years. Especially with such a young team offensively. Not everything was bad this year. The o-line, Flacco, Rice got valuable experience, Mattison isn't as bad as we thought he was, and who knows maybe Cundiff is the answer for kicker. Can't wait to see what the offseason holds for Harbaugh and company.

[Moderator 2]

[quote name='Zhamtao' date='22 January 2010 - 11:10 PM' timestamp='1264219856' post='349339']
I know,

[b]I just didn't want him to take 2's validation of some of his good points as agreeing with the wholesale tearing down of the boards as being full of mindless 'Harbaughites'. [/b]The tone was very much, "If you don't agree with me I'm going to classify you this way and then take my ball and go home." There really are objective ways to look at all sides of the argument, as you well know.

I just have this Saturday Night Live: Weekend Update "Really?" skit running through my head every time someone calls everyone else around them something akin to a moron. Something like, "Really? You're going to go down that road? Really?"

Darn it... I've gone and spoken too much again...
[/quote]

I was very specific with what I agreed with if you re-read my post. Do you realize how many young, 13-14, teenagers we have on this board, we also have a 70 + grandmother? Not every post is for everyone but it merges fairly well. Me a [b]Harbaughites?? [/b] Not in any wildest dreams, I still miss Billick lol, but I can objectively find good things to say about the coach Harbaugh along with criticism.

[BuckWilds]

[quote name='Moderator 2' date='23 January 2010 - 12:06 AM' timestamp='1264223197' post='349379']
I was very specific with what I agreed with if you re-read my post. Do you realize how many young, 13-14, teenagers we have on this board, we also have a 70 + grandmother? Not every post is for everyone but it merges fairly well. Me a [b]Harbaughites?? [/b] Not in any wildest dreams, I still miss Billick lol, but I can objectively find good things to say about the coach Harbaugh along with criticism.
[/quote]

I understood and agreed with the sentiment of your original post - you picked specific things. What I had issue in with Hammer's post was just the whole idea of name-calling and sweeping generalizations about the community. That's all. In my opinion I didn't think you meant to endorse the jabs, and that's all I meant to communicate to Hammer.

You said it just now better than I did, "objectively [i]find good things... along with criticism[/i]"... Neither criticism nor homerism is entirely objective. I have faith that over time the population of this board gets to the truth, regardless of momentary passions.

When it comes to Coach Harbaugh, there are certain things I go nuts about - the review booth issue being one of them - but I know there are so many other things he does well that in general, I'm pleased. Criticism is fine, even a great thing used properly. But to say people on side or another of an argument are some random derogatory thing for thinking a certain way and that questions are 'dumb', well I feel like... "One of these days Alice, straight to the moon!"

[hammer]

[quote name='theFRANCHISE' date='23 January 2010 - 12:23 AM' timestamp='1264220637' post='349347']
1) The forum is open and objective in dialogue, at least from what we regulars have seen.

[b]Reply: This is not true. 'PSU RAVEN' wrote on 22 January 2010 - 07:16 PM'
In the pre-season I merely asked if Troy Smith has improved as a QB and all hell broke loose[/b]

[b]Now I am not going to go so far as to say that you KNOW THAT YOUR STATEMENT IS NOT TRUE, but the fact of the matter is that we can just disagree on it. The partial evidence is quoted above.[/b]

2) Keep in mind, this is an all-ages site; the level of maturity may not be what you are used to, but please don't assume that there still is not a level of maturity acceptable for the members who frequent this board often.

[b]As I stated before, the high transciency in and of itself is a direct result of an overall lack of maturity on the board. I myself find that the board is dominated by childish "groopies" who abuse the neg-rep system to suppress thought. Moderators, at times appear to encourage this boorish behavior, by allowing statements such as "let's flame this post from disgruntled users" then closing the thread to reward them.[/b]

3) I don't know what you mean by "training," but if we were all hand-picked by the team and have had no complaints from our superiors whenever an issue has arisen, we're probably doing our jobs right. You may not like how we handle things, but it's not as if we're ruling with an iron fist or supressing free speech to the point that people are afraid to speak up. It's also common practice within the NFL to have a staff of volunteers for their Moderators. If you think [i]we're[/i] doing a bad job, just look at the hail of criticism that Indy's Moderators have gotten recently.

[b]I don't mean training in a negative sense. Given the circumstances, I think the Mods are just trying to keep a rope around the asylum. I mean training in a sense of uniformed applications of corrective measures. This is a work in progress under even ideal circumstances, but it has to be a priority.[/b]

4) This is the only point I will agree with you on, mainly because I never approved of it to begin with -- but it's not easy to remove because of how it's embedded in the board's software. To remove it would be to take the entire Ravens website (not just the board) offline for an extended period of time -- possibly days, depending on the licensing firm from which the software was obtained. It'd also be taxing to the servers to make such a casual change, I assume.

[b]I think your asumption is just that.... an asumption. I believe that the neg-rep capability can be disabled without dismantling the entire website. Call it my "perpetrator gene" or something, but I am prone to think that the PR department wants to keep it for some nefarious purpose (Never trust the Corporation - THE MAN - COMPLETELY).[/b]

[Moderator 2]

[quote name='hammer' date='23 January 2010 - 01:45 AM' timestamp='1264229150' post='349417']
[b]I think your asumption is just that.... an asumption. I believe that the neg-rep capability can be disabled without dismantling the entire website. Call it my "perpetrator gene" or something, but I am prone to think that the PR department wants to keep it for some nefarious purpose (Never trust the Corporation - THE MAN - COMPLETELY).[/b]
[/quote]

Rest assured kind sir if I NEVER, EVER, EVER, EVER hear neg rep again it will be too soon!!!!!!!!! We are all quite vocal about it.

[BuckWilds]

[quote name='Moderator 2' date='23 January 2010 - 01:53 AM' timestamp='1264229606' post='349422']
Rest assured kind sir if I NEVER, EVER, EVER, EVER hear neg rep again it will be too soon!!!!!!!!! We are all quite vocal about it.
[/quote]

If the negative vote threshold can be set to two, can it also be set to zero? The problem there might be that the error message still pops ("You've exceeded your negative votes"... "but I haven't voted!"), but finding that part of the code and changing the script to say, "Don't worry, be happy!" might be a 5-min fix.

[hammer]

[quote name='Zhamtao' date='23 January 2010 - 02:39 AM' timestamp='1264228773' post='349411']
I understood and agreed with the sentiment of your original post - you picked specific things. [size="4"]

[b]What I had issue in with Hammer's post was just the whole idea of name-calling and sweeping generalizations about the community. That's all. In my opinion I didn't think you meant to endorse the jabs, and that's all I meant to communicate to Hammer.[/b][/size]

You said it just now better than I did, "objectively [i]find good things... along with criticism[/i]"... Neither criticism nor homerism is entirely objective. I have faith that over time the population of this board gets to the truth, regardless of momentary passions.

When it comes to Coach Harbaugh, there are certain things I go nuts about - the review booth issue being one of them - but I know there are so many other things he does well that in general, I'm pleased. Criticism is fine, even a great thing used properly. But to say people on side or another of an argument are some random derogatory thing for thinking a certain way and that questions are 'dumb', well I feel like... "One of these days Alice, straight to the moon!"


[/quote]

My characterisation of calling a statement and subsequent justification of the statement - dumb, is meant to point out the fact that the statement in and of itself, is "baseless."

I offered an alternative view of harbaugh's failure to throw the red flag a couple of weeks ago, and all hell broke out too. First the groupies called for a flaming of the post, then, just like "mindless-klingons" the trekkies followed suit. Now being that these kind of people have long ago discreditged themselves as objective football fans, it is in my opinion that they earned the designations of Trekkie's and Groupies. This is the only way I couldthink of to discribe the behavior. I found it to be bizarre, distasteful, and actually fitting of the definition of "trolling."

But of course, then comes the Moderator (conveniently late) to give a stern rebuke to the attack victim, then close the thread. Only the deeply flawed and sarcastic mind could call that open and objective.

Not to be harsh or unneighborly, but this system can get better. That's what I REALLY want.