Why The Harbaugh Hate?

[Bazooka Joe]

I think it has to do with a couple of things (and some were points mentioned on Rob Long's Show this morning and some are purely mine).

1. Folks are just wanting Rex. (I will come back to this.)
2. They think Harbaugh is too boring and his pressers are boring. But didn't we criticize Billick for being too flamboyant and arrogant? Many folks loved that Harbaugh sounded more like the traditional coach and now they think he's is boring?

3. Rex Ryan's face has been plastered all over the national shows and his quotes have become headlines on these national shows.

4. Rex is in the AFC Championship and we are not.

Now, let's bring some reality to this. Here are my points:

1. If Rex Ryan were our HC, no one would give a damn about what he says. For example, Rex could have said, "we are not kissing the Steelers rings." No one would care and if anything he would have been criticized for being a loud mouth arrogant guy. But he says it in NY and it's all over ESPN, NFLN, and FOX. Those guys will headline anything that happens in NY.

2. Rex Ryan backdoored his way into the postseason. Had the Colts played their starters all the way in that game, the Jets are not in and we would have been the 5th seed playing SD instead of the Colts. We actually earned our way in much more than the Jets did.

3. Harbaugh has taken us to the postseason two straight seasons and we were not one and done in either. And we did this with a crappy WR corp.

4. Harbaugh has brought a team concept to us and a fresh approach. With Rex Ryan, the defense would have been running the asylum here with the offensive guys possibly getting second class treatment.

5. Rex needed to get away from home (the Ravens) in order to establish himself as a true HC. And we needed a new direction.


I like Harbaugh and believe we will get to the SB and win it with him. Why? Because for two years in a row, Harbaugh has led a group, that while it has a very good young QB, RB and OL and young talent on defense, it also has some aging defensive stars and a piss poor receiving corp and useless banged up TEs, to the playoffs twice.

Harbaugh must work on his usage of timeouts and challenges in some cases. He must also not hold grudges so long with this doghouse. He should make his points quicker with the doghouse, but still those guys a legit chance to work their way out of it. However, Harbaugh, as does Flacco, fits the personality of Baltimore; low key-lunchpail-no flash workers.

Rex's act, while cute right now, will wear out much quicker and will come back to bite him in el culo. Guys that run their mouths a lot, you are with them in the beginning, but eventually you will tell them to shut up.

[Ed_Reed20]

Great points man. I just wish people looked at the situation from all angles.

I'm not saying Rex is a bad coach but people conveniently forget that the Jets were Super Bowl contenders last year before Favre got hurt. Their defense wasn't far off from where it is now and they ran the ball well. Rex has certainly added some pieces but he inherited a good team.

While they've earned their way to the AFC Championship, no one can tell me they aren't lucky to even be there. Rex is having success now but we'll see what he does next year and in the years to come.

Every HC can make improvements but I don't see how people can have too many issues with Harbaugh, who has inherited a perennially average team and taken them to and advanced in the play-offs two years in a row.

[theFRANCHISE]

Though a few of your points will probably be debated up-and-down, the one big point I can wholeheartedly agree on is the reality that the inmates would've ran the asylum had Rex taken over as head coach here. Again, a players' coach was NOT what such an undisciplined team needed.

Granted, this year's ridiculous amount of penalties point to signs of an undisiciplined team again, but there's two levels of discipline: there's the kind that can be fixed (focus), and there's the kind that can't be fixed (temper.) Pass interference and false starts are a mark of focus, whereas unnecessary roughness is a mark of temper. There's been far fewer unnecessary roughness calls against our guys this season, and there hasn't been a meltdown of Patriot-like proportions from 2007. No flags being thrown in the stands, no helmets being thrown in the direction of other players, no hands being put on the officials, no players being ejected, etc.

The most damning piece of evidence that this team is much-improved? In almost every regular season loss, the game was decided in the final 5 minutes and by no more than a possession (save for the Green Bay game, lost by 13, and the second Bengals game, lost by 10.) Teams in years past would've packed it up or would've simply let things get more out of hand.

[Perfekt]

i dont think fans hate harbs we just dont like the way he handles certain things. my gripe with him was with not resting flacco when he knew he was hurt. my biggest concern was the defense but later i realized that the defense would be fine. our biggest concern is still our offense. cam better learn from his mistakes because i dont want to see another year of his terrible play calling.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Perfekt' date='20 January 2010 - 11:29 AM' timestamp='1264004975' post='347606']
i dont think fans hate harbs we just dont like the way he handles certain things. my gripe with him was with not resting flacco when he knew he was hurt. my biggest concern was the defense but later i realized that the defense would be fine. our biggest concern is still our offense. cam better learn from his mistakes because i dont want to see another year of his terrible play calling.
[/quote]

When should he have rested Flacco? The team played must-win games from eight to the end of the regular season.

And while Cam's play-calling was a bit puzzling at times, the players didn't always execute.

[shaikh015]

[quote name='Bazooka Joe' date='20 January 2010 - 11:00 AM' timestamp='1264003257' post='347588']
I think it has to do with a couple of things (and some were points mentioned on Rob Long's Show this morning and some are purely mine).

1. Folks are just wanting Rex. (I will come back to this.)
2. They think Harbaugh is too boring and his pressers are boring. But didn't we criticize Billick for being too flamboyant and arrogant? Many folks loved that Harbaugh sounded more like the traditional coach and now they think he's is boring?

3. Rex Ryan's face has been plastered all over the national shows and his quotes have become headlines on these national shows.

4. Rex is in the AFC Championship and we are not.

Now, let's bring some reality to this. Here are my points:

1. If Rex Ryan were our HC, no one would give a damn about what he says. For example, Rex could have said, "we are not kissing the Steelers rings." No one would care and if anything he would have been criticized for being a loud mouth arrogant guy. But he says it in NY and it's all over ESPN, NFLN, and FOX. Those guys will headline anything that happens in NY.

2. Rex Ryan backdoored his way into the postseason. Had the Colts played their starters all the way in that game, the Jets are not in and we would have been the 5th seed playing SD instead of the Colts. We actually earned our way in much more than the Jets did.

3. Harbaugh has taken us to the postseason two straight seasons and we were not one and done in either. And we did this with a crappy WR corp.

4. Harbaugh has brought a team concept to us and a fresh approach. With Rex Ryan, the defense would have been running the asylum here with the offensive guys possibly getting second class treatment.

5. Rex needed to get away from home (the Ravens) in order to establish himself as a true HC. And we needed a new direction.


I like Harbaugh and believe we will get to the SB and win it with him. Why? Because for two years in a row, Harbaugh has led a group, that while it has a very good young QB, RB and OL and young talent on defense, it also has some aging defensive stars and a piss poor receiving corp and useless banged up TEs, to the playoffs twice.

[b]Harbaugh must work on his usage of timeouts and challenges in some cases. He must also not hold grudges so long with this doghouse. He should make his points quicker with the doghouse, but still those guys a legit chance to work their way out of it.[/b] However, Harbaugh, as does Flacco, fits the personality of Baltimore; low key-lunchpail-no flash workers.

Rex's act, while cute right now, will wear out much quicker and will come back to bite him in el culo. Guys that run their mouths a lot, you are with them in the beginning, but eventually you will tell them to shut up.
[/quote]

You shouldn't have to teach a head coach how to be a head coach!!!!!!!!

[Bazooka Joe]

[quote name='shaikh015' date='20 January 2010 - 11:39 AM' timestamp='1264005585' post='347611']
You shouldn't have to teach a head coach how to be a head coach!!!!!!!!
[/quote]

You should allow a head coach room to grow. He's only been doing this for two seasons. Both of which end with us in the playoffs. Besides, those issues are issues that many HCs have. Even Bill Bellechick. He is not perfect, but Harbaugh is a damned good HC. The results speak for themselves.

[Bazooka Joe]

[quote name='theFRANCHISE' date='20 January 2010 - 11:20 AM' timestamp='1264004412' post='347604']
Though a few of your points will probably be debated up-and-down, the one big point I can wholeheartedly agree on is the reality that the inmates would've ran the asylum had Rex taken over as head coach here. Again, a players' coach was NOT what such an undisciplined team needed.

Granted, this year's ridiculous amount of penalties point to signs of an undisiciplined team again, but there's two levels of discipline: there's the kind that can be fixed (focus), and there's the kind that can't be fixed (temper.) Pass interference and false starts are a mark of focus, whereas unnecessary roughness is a mark of temper. There's been far fewer unnecessary roughness calls against our guys this season, and there hasn't been a meltdown of Patriot-like proportions from 2007. No flags being thrown in the stands, no helmets being thrown in the direction of other players, no hands being put on the officials, no players being ejected, etc.

The most damning piece of evidence that this team is much-improved? In almost every regular season loss, the game was decided in the final 5 minutes and by no more than a possession (save for the Green Bay game, lost by 13, and the second Bengals game, lost by 10.) Teams in years past would've packed it up or would've simply let things get more out of hand.
[/quote]


And many of those unnecessary roughness penalties were committed by guys Harbaugh inherited from Billick. Ray has been penaltized twice this year and he should know better. Even the boneheaded and careless ball handling by Ed Reed. Ngata's penalties.

Harbaugh was smart enough to get Ray Lewis to buy into his philosophy.

Another thing is that Rex was able to take guys like Bart Scott, Jim Leonard, and Marques Douglass with him to help get the rest of the guys to buy in. Rex also took some of his coaches such as Mike Pettine.

Harbaugh did not bring in any guys like that. In fact Harbaugh smartly bought in the best guys instead of bringing in his friends. Harbaugh did not have players that he could bring with him. I was hoping he could bring Lito Sheppard with him, though and maybe he still can as I believe he is a FA after the season. Will check on that.

[Perfekt]

i said going into the lions and bears game that we should have rested flacco because he was injuried and said that i didnt want to hear about him playing thru the injuries because we would need him in the playoffs. funny thing is that when i was saying it people tried to down play that flacco wasnt injuired.

if you dont put the players in a position to win then what can you expect.

[BuckWilds]

Being a head coach is a heck of a lot more than throwing challenge flags (as much as that bugs the heck out of me) and calling timeouts. Being a head coach is a 24/7 job of leading a team, guiding the ship... too much to try to put into one post.

Harbaugh is fine. No, actually, Harbaugh is great. Try to see some of the other amazing things Harbs does... it might make a difference in the negative opinions.

[poedacrow]

Part of the "hate for Harbaugh" maybe that the team is obviously transitioning from a strictly defensive minded team to one of more balance on the offensive side. Lots of folks may be uncomfortable with that preferring the "old" Ravens. However, in this transition he has taken this team to the playoffs in his first two years. There are rookie coaches out there who would love to get to .500 in their first year.

There will always be a minority who clamor for a coaching change.
If that's the preference, the Redskins is the team for you.

[AZravensfan]

[quote name='Perfekt' date='20 January 2010 - 10:54 AM' timestamp='1264010082' post='347660']
i said going into the lions and bears game that we should have rested flacco because he was injuried and said that i didnt want to hear about him playing thru the injuries because we would need him in the playoffs. funny thing is that when i was saying it people tried to down play that flacco wasnt injuired.

if you dont put the players in a position to win then what can you expect.
[/quote]


I am sorry but I am going to have to disagree with you. If the team medical staff and Flacco thought he was good enough to go then we definitely made the right decision (in my opinion of course). We needed pretty much every game when it came down to it to make the playoffs. Flacco is a tough guy and he never played horrible, I don't think anyways. I also believe Harbs has done an excellent job as our HC. Honestly if we didn't have Flacco for the whole regular season then I don't think we make the playoffs at all. So all in all I believe our coaching staff and Harbs in particular have done a great job the last two years.

P.S.- This is my first post around here! So be gentle .

[poedacrow]

[quote name='Zhamtao' date='20 January 2010 - 02:00 PM' timestamp='1264010437' post='347668']
Being a head coach is a heck of a lot more than throwing challenge flags (as much as that bugs the heck out of me) and calling timeouts. Being a head coach is a 24/7 job of leading a team, guiding the ship... too much to try to put into one post.

Harbaugh is fine. No, actually, Harbaugh is great. Try to see some of the other amazing things Harbs does... it might make a difference in the negative opinions.
[/quote]
Goodness yes!
Aside from the "x's and o's" a coach has to lead, inspire and "guide the ship."
Stay the course Ravens fans, we are headed for greatness!

[Alexir]

There are people in New England who don't like Bill Belichick (let's avoid the cheating jokes....), I mean not everyone is going to like their head coach. I thought we should have gotten a more experienced coach such as Rex who had history with the team and was actually a coordinator (Offense/Defense) instead of some guy that was the eagles secondary coach and special teams coach.

Yeah, Harbs got us to the playoffs back to back but for a guy who preaches character and discipline, he needs to shut up and put his money where his mouth is. We get flagged way too much and its over the basic stuff you learn in training camp.

[AZravensfan]

[quote name='Alexir' date='20 January 2010 - 11:21 AM' timestamp='1264011700' post='347688']
There are people in New England who don't like Bill Belichick (let's avoid the cheating jokes....), I mean not everyone is going to like their head coach. I thought we should have gotten a more experienced coach such as Rex who had history with the team and was actually a coordinator (Offense/Defense) instead of some guy that was the eagles secondary coach and special teams coach.

Yeah, Harbs got us to the playoffs back to back but for a guy who preaches character and discipline, he needs to shut up and put his money where his mouth is. We get flagged way too much and its over the basic stuff you learn in training camp.
[/quote]

I agree with most of what you said. I put the penalties on the players more so than on the coach. Their were definitely way too many penalties, but as you said most were the basic things that players have been taught not to do. As much as I liked Rex when he was here and I do find his interviews funny and entertaining, I believe Harbs is the right guy for the job. This being only his second year I believe he is doing a good job so far and he has plenty of time to get better. Even with all the penalties and everything our team did a fairly decent job this year.

Either way I believe that the blame goes mostly on the players. I do think however most of them got it turned around. We seemed to be getting less penalties as the season progressed lets just hope they keep that improvement heading into next year.

[ravens27]

He has a shot at taking us to the playoffs 3 straight times next season. We have never gone to the playoffs 3x straight before.

No matter what Harbuagh does, he will always have people who like him and people who don't.

[YABOY]

i think some people will never be happy with john no matter what he does. just 2 years we were 5-11 & nobody thought we would be this good this fast i think he's doing a great job

[Alexir]

[quote name='YABOY' date='20 January 2010 - 01:32 PM' timestamp='1264012354' post='347700']
i think some people will never be happy with john no matter what he does. just 2 years we were 5-11 & nobody thought we would be this good this fast i think he's doing a great job
[/quote]

Well in all honesty I think everyone knew the 5-11 was just injury plagued year and we would bounce back fine.

2006 was one of our best REGULAR SEASON years in franchise history. When Harbs gets us to 13-3 or if he can just win the division, I might give him more respect. But back to back years he has us being swept by a division rival.

He did beat the Pats which im pretty damn happy about. Now he needs to get this team to beat Manning and Roethlisberger.

[AZravensfan]

[quote name='Alexir' date='20 January 2010 - 11:39 AM' timestamp='1264012771' post='347708']
Well in all honesty I think everyone knew the 5-11 was just injury plagued year and we would bounce back fine.

2006 was one of our best REGULAR SEASON years in franchise history. When Harbs gets us to 13-3 or if he can just win the division, I might give him more respect. But back to back years he has us being swept by a division rival.

He did beat the Pats which im pretty damn happy about. Now he needs to get this team to beat Manning and Roethlisberger.
[/quote]

Honestly I don't care about the regular season as long as we make the playoffs. I would like to have another SB win soon, but we will see what happens with that. I think we can all agree we need more offensive talent before we can judge effectively on whether or not he is a good coach. If he sneaks into the playoffs next year as a wild card and we make a SB run then I will be happier than if we won the division and just loss early in the playoffs. I would like to sweep the Steelers though!

[FerrariFan87]

My main gripe with Coach Harbaugh is his awful clock management. If he works that out, and gets better at making decisions in regards to challenging plays, it will help this team a lot.

[AZravensfan]

[quote name='FerrariFan87' date='20 January 2010 - 11:47 AM' timestamp='1264013264' post='347715']
My main gripe with Coach Harbaugh is his awful clock management. If he works that out, and gets better at making decisions in regards to challenging plays, it will help this team a lot.
[/quote]

Yes he really does need to get better at clock management!!! Excellent point by the way! I am not sure but the person(or people) we have in the box that are supposed to be telling him to challenge and when not to challenge definitely need to do a better job. Clock management is the one thing I think he needs to work on the most though.

[63bru]

I love Harbaugh, but I fear he has alot of the negative traits associated with Andy Reid. That is, poor clock management, an inexplicable devotion to or disdain of certain players, and an inability to win the big games. The first two traits I've already seen in Harbaugh, though I'll wait to pass judgment on the third trait. That having been said, I really appreciate the fact that the Ravens have only been upset once in the past 2 years (against the Steelers, and they were only slightly favored). The Ravens always keep their focus against weaker opponents, but unfortunately, they lose focus against the big boys. I'm more than willing to give Harbaugh a chance to fix these issues, and I have faith that he can.

[BuckWilds]

[quote name='Alexir' date='20 January 2010 - 01:39 PM' timestamp='1264012771' post='347708']
Well in all honesty I think everyone knew the 5-11 was just injury plagued year and we would bounce back fine.

2006 was one of our best REGULAR SEASON years in franchise history. When Harbs gets us to 13-3 or if he can just win the division, I might give him more respect. But back to back years he has us being swept by a division rival.

He did beat the Pats which im pretty damn happy about. Now he needs to get this team to beat Manning and Roethlisberger.
[/quote]

You might give him more respect? LOL....

[RavensAllTheWay]

[quote name='Bazooka Joe' date='20 January 2010 - 12:00 PM' timestamp='1264003257' post='347588']
I think it has to do with a couple of things (and some were points mentioned on Rob Long's Show this morning and some are purely mine).

1. Folks are just wanting Rex. (I will come back to this.)
2. They think Harbaugh is too boring and his pressers are boring. But didn't we criticize Billick for being too flamboyant and arrogant? Many folks loved that Harbaugh sounded more like the traditional coach and now they think he's is boring?

3. Rex Ryan's face has been plastered all over the national shows and his quotes have become headlines on these national shows.

4. Rex is in the AFC Championship and we are not.

Now, let's bring some reality to this. Here are my points:

1. If Rex Ryan were our HC, no one would give a damn about what he says. For example, Rex could have said, "we are not kissing the Steelers rings." No one would care and if anything he would have been criticized for being a loud mouth arrogant guy. But he says it in NY and it's all over ESPN, NFLN, and FOX. Those guys will headline anything that happens in NY.

2. Rex Ryan backdoored his way into the postseason. Had the Colts played their starters all the way in that game, the Jets are not in and we would have been the 5th seed playing SD instead of the Colts. We actually earned our way in much more than the Jets did.

3. Harbaugh has taken us to the postseason two straight seasons and we were not one and done in either. And we did this with a crappy WR corp.

4. Harbaugh has brought a team concept to us and a fresh approach. With Rex Ryan, the defense would have been running the asylum here with the offensive guys possibly getting second class treatment.

5. Rex needed to get away from home (the Ravens) in order to establish himself as a true HC. And we needed a new direction.


I like Harbaugh and believe we will get to the SB and win it with him. Why? Because for two years in a row, Harbaugh has led a group, that while it has a very good young QB, RB and OL and young talent on defense, it also has some aging defensive stars and a piss poor receiving corp and useless banged up TEs, to the playoffs twice.

Harbaugh must work on his usage of timeouts and challenges in some cases. He must also not hold grudges so long with this doghouse. He should make his points quicker with the doghouse, but still those guys a legit chance to work their way out of it. However, Harbaugh, as does Flacco, fits the personality of Baltimore; low key-lunchpail-no flash workers.

Rex's act, while cute right now, will wear out much quicker and will come back to bite him in el culo. Guys that run their mouths a lot, you are with them in the beginning, but eventually you will tell them to shut up.
[/quote]
I agree dude, I'm tired of Harbaugh being ripped. People around here are just disappointed about us losing (so am I), so now we're making stuff up about how Rex should've been hired over Harbaugh.

So John is a calm "character" guy who doesn't want a bad reputatuion, and then there's Rex who doesn't give a crap what you think, just wants to talk. Doesn't matter which of those two personalities we have, all that matters is winning football games. Which is what we were doing WITH HARBAUGH until last Saturday.

Maybe we're just jealous of Rex because he's in the AFC Championship game and we're not. I just don't know what there is to hate about Harbaugh.

[Tighthead420]

[quote name='RavensAllTheWay' date='20 January 2010 - 02:44 PM' timestamp='1264016644' post='347755']




Maybe we're just jealous of Rex because he's in the AFC Championship game and we're not. I just don't know what there is to hate about Harbaugh.
[/quote]

If the Jets advance, or even win it all, get ready for the we-should-have-made-rex-HC threads out the wazoo.

[Tighthead420]

[quote name='Bazooka Joe' date='20 January 2010 - 11:00 AM' timestamp='1264003257' post='347588']

2. Rex Ryan backdoored his way into the postseason. Had the Colts played their starters all the way in that game, the Jets are not in and we would have been the 5th seed playing SD instead of the Colts. We actually earned our way in much more than the Jets did.

[/quote]

9-7 and beating on the lowly Raiders means they earned it?The Ravens took a backdoor path also. Had the Steelers not collapsed, or a myriad of other scenarios, the Ravens would have been home after the Oakland game also. Remember the magic number in the AFC is 10-6?

Plus, I do not buy the notion that there is no way the Jets could have won if Manning had played the whole game. Not very likely, but anything is possible.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Tighthead420' date='20 January 2010 - 03:49 PM' timestamp='1264020592' post='347816']
9-7 and beating on the lowly Raiders means they earned it?The Ravens took a backdoor path also. Had the Steelers not collapsed, or a myriad of other scenarios, the Ravens would have been home after the Oakland game also. Remember the magic number in the AFC is 10-6?

Plus, I do not buy the notion that there is no way the Jets could have won if Manning had played the whole game. Not very likely, but anything is possible.
[/quote]

The Ravens didn't get into the play-offs because a team quit. The Steelers collapsing and other scenarios mean nothing. Every game the Ravens played on their schedule was relatively competitive. You can't say that with the Jets.

[AZravensfan]

[quote name='Tighthead420' date='20 January 2010 - 01:49 PM' timestamp='1264020592' post='347816']
9-7 and beating on the lowly Raiders means they earned it?The Ravens took a backdoor path also. Had the Steelers not collapsed, or a myriad of other scenarios, the Ravens would have been home after the Oakland game also. Remember the magic number in the AFC is 10-6?

Plus, I do not buy the notion that there is no way the Jets could have won if Manning had played the whole game. Not very likely, but anything is possible.
[/quote]

I believe we did earn our playoff spot. Those "lowly" Raiders pulled off quite a few upsets over playoff teams(or wild car contenders) this year. I don't believe that the Steelers collapsed, they just aren't as good as they used to be. Especially without Polamalu. They lacked offense for most of the year and just weren't playing the kind of football they normally do.

I agree with you on the fact that there is no way to tell if the Jets would have beaten the Colts that week if the starters remained in the whole game. The Jets D can keep them in a lot of games and make plays no matter who they are facing.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' date='20 January 2010 - 04:00 PM' timestamp='1264021236' post='347825']
The Ravens didn't get into the play-offs because a team quit. The Steelers collapsing and other scenarios mean nothing. Every game the Ravens played on their schedule was relatively competitive. You can't say that with the Jets.
[/quote]

Instead of giving me a negative rep like a coward, why don't you argue your point? Nothing I said was a lie. The Colts had no interest in their game against the Jets and pulled their starters. They quit.

[Tighthead420]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' date='20 January 2010 - 04:14 PM' timestamp='1264022050' post='347836']
Instead of giving me a negative rep like a coward, why don't you argue your point? Nothing I said was a lie. The Colts had no interest in their game against the Jets and pulled their starters. They quit.
[/quote]


Wow...first I never repped you...get a grip.

Second, I never said anyone quit, and I still don't buy it, regardless of who was playing. But if you still think beating the Raiders/Detroit/Bears means the Ravens truly earned it, fine. All I meant was they had to beat the Colts (Manning less is somewhat meaningless) and we had to beat the 3 crap teams we faced. I don't know if the rant was aimed at me, but check yourself before calling people names (isn't that against code?)