Flacco's Performance

[JohnJohnson]

So I just finished watching the Cowboys game. Anyone else?

My point is fairly obvious, but I want to start a positive thread about Flacco, instead of just responding to the ridiculous ones. When you consider all things, Flacco has done a remarkable job the last two years. Our lack of receiving targets is clearly the major issue; concerns about our defense are secondary, and not nearly as urgent. We have never had a good receiving core, and that is probably because of our defensive philosophy and our search for a QB, which should be the starting point. Now that we have Flacco, it's time to make the transition. We do need to prepare for the inevitable loss of Ed Reed and Ray Lewis on defense, but we have much more to gain by sparking our offense.

Kurt Warner, Tony Romo, and Tom Brady were unable to get the job done this year. Go look at their careers, consider everything about the teams they played on, and realize that Flacco has had great success. He just turned 25, and he has showed steady improvement without sufficient weapons. Let's get the man some weapons!

[ravenz_fan]

well put, i myself love flacco and think he has accomplished so much this year and last

[Bltravens]

[quote name='JohnJohnson' date='17 January 2010 - 03:24 PM' timestamp='1263763478' post='345209']
So I just finished watching the Cowboys game. Anyone else?

My point is fairly obvious, but I want to start a positive thread about Flacco, instead of just responding to the ridiculous ones. When you consider all things, Flacco has done a remarkable job the last two years. Our lack of receiving targets is clearly the major issue; concerns about our defense are secondary, and not nearly as urgent. We have never had a good receiving core, and that is probably because of our defensive philosophy and our search for a QB, which should be the starting point. Now that we have Flacco, it's time to make the transition. We do need to prepare for the inevitable loss of Ed Reed and Ray Lewis on defense, but we have much more to gain by sparking our offense.

Kurt Warner, Tony Romo, and Tom Brady were unable to get the job done this year. Go look at their careers, consider everything about the teams they played on, and realize that Flacco has had great success. He just turned 25, and he has showed steady improvement without sufficient weapons. Let's get the man some weapons!
[/quote]
Pretty much, you give us Miles Austin or Fitzgerald or Moss and we pretty much destroy the AFC North, and who knows what happens in the playoffs.

[Ed_Reed20]

I don't see how anyone can really criticize Flacco. I'm not going to put all of the mistakes he made during the year on his injuries but I really think his hip and ankle affected his mechanics down the stretch. Early in the season, he looked like he was on his way to a Pro Bowl berth.

Hopefully he hits the weight room hard this off-season and looks at tape of all of his games. I can't wait to see him continue to develop and see what he does when he has legitimate weapons to throw to.

[I AM LEGEND]

You guys have to keep telling yourselves Flacco is doing a great job...to hide the fact that flacco really isn't doing a great job.


These are professional athletes that play to win the game...they don't judge their career based on how many playoff games they've been to or their performance in relevance to their age...it's based on winning the games..

Flacco is doing what every one of our QB's has done for the past decade and that's take a ride with a GREAT DEFENSE..I'm sick and tired of it...

Only here do you see fans holding the hands and babying a QB that was barely noticable in 2 playoff games this year...he's actually shown a slight regression from last year.

Give this kid a new Wr core and let's see what he can do..I really want him to succeed here but my gut is telling me he just doesn't have it.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='I AM LEGEND' date='17 January 2010 - 06:01 PM' timestamp='1263772878' post='345333']
You guys have to keep telling yourselves Flacco is doing a great job...to hide the fact that flacco really isn't doing a great job.


These are professional athletes that play to win the game...they don't judge their career based on how many playoff games they've been to or their performance in relevance to their age...it's based on winning the games..

Flacco is doing what every one of our QB's has done for the past decade and that's take a ride with a GREAT DEFENSE..I'm sick and tired of it...

Only here do you see fans holding the hands and babying a QB that was barely noticable in 2 playoff games this year...he's actually shown a slight regression from last year.

Give this kid a new Wr core and let's see what he can do..I really want him to succeed here but my gut is telling me he just doesn't have it.
[/quote]
Well in all actuality Flacco is riding the coat tails of our defense better than any other QB has in the past. And hes doing it with a significantly worse defense than we had in the past. I seriously cant believe you want to give up on a 25 year old kid, who is 2 years into the NFL.

[darklight1216]

[quote name='I AM LEGEND' date='17 January 2010 - 07:01 PM' timestamp='1263772878' post='345333']
You guys have to keep telling yourselves Flacco is doing a great job...to hide the fact that flacco really isn't doing a great job.


These are professional athletes that play to win the game...they don't judge their career based on how many playoff games they've been to or their performance in relevance to their age...[b]it's based on winning the games..[/b]

Flacco is doing what every one of our QB's has done for the past decade and that's take a ride with a GREAT DEFENSE..I'm sick and tired of it...

Only here do you see fans holding the hands and babying a QB that was barely noticable in 2 playoff games this year...he's actually shown a slight regression from last year.

Give this kid a new Wr core and let's see what he can do..I really want him to succeed here but my gut is telling me he just doesn't have it.
[/quote]
Flacco has a winning record in both the regular season and the postseason, does he not?

He's actually improved in every statiscial category since last year as well, but apparantly wins and stats aren't good enough.

Flacco will need to improve, there's no doubt about it, but we saw what he is capable of in the beginning of the season. Does 30+ points in 5 of the first seven games and 12 tds to 5 ints with top five passing yards ring a bell?

But that wasn't good enough either. Everyone wanted us to run the ball more, because with the top offense in the AFC and one of the worst defenses in the league (at that time), the problem was obviously the offense.

I think we need to give him the reigns again. No, not just when the rush is shut down, but as the first option.

[I AM LEGEND]

[quote name='Bltravens' date='17 January 2010 - 08:12 PM' timestamp='1263773544' post='345346']
Well in all actuality Flacco is riding the coat tails of our defense better than any other QB has in the past. And hes doing it with a significantly worse defense than we had in the past. I seriously cant believe you want to give up on a 25 year old kid, who is 2 years into the NFL.
[/quote]

and how Many more years of "wow Joe flacco got us to the playoffs!! This is completely awesome!" do we have to deal with before we realize a Championship is the goal not a divisional playoff round

[Bltravens]

[quote name='I AM LEGEND' date='17 January 2010 - 06:23 PM' timestamp='1263774186' post='345367']
and how Many more years of "wow Joe flacco got us to the playoffs!! This is completely awesome!" do we have to deal with before we realize a Championship is the goal not a divisional playoff round
[/quote]
You've endured a championship and division round in 2 years. Better than any other QB I can think off the top my head in their first 2 years. What the hell do you want the front office to do, trade up and draft sam bradford? Hell even the Jets have a better WR corps than we do.

[darklight1216]

[quote name='I AM LEGEND' date='17 January 2010 - 07:23 PM' timestamp='1263774186' post='345367']
and how Many more years of "wow Joe flacco got us to the playoffs!! This is completely awesome!" do we have to deal with before we realize a Championship is the goal not a divisional playoff round
[/quote]
You're right. We should settle for no less than a Super Bowl win every single year.

[I AM LEGEND]

[quote name='Bltravens' date='17 January 2010 - 08:25 PM' timestamp='1263774353' post='345376']
You've endured a championship and division round in 2 years. Better than any other QB I can think off the top my head in their first 2 years. What the hell do you want the front office to do, trade up and draft sam bradford? Hell even the Jets have a better WR corps than we do.
[/quote]

We're waisting away Ray and Ed's final years on flacco's watch...either get somebody in here that can get us over the hump or keep waisting our veteran players time...

Once again were one step away from the superbowl..and all we can say is "Flacco has a winning record"...sense when does that become the goal to our season

[darklight1216]

[quote name='I AM LEGEND' date='17 January 2010 - 07:39 PM' timestamp='1263775182' post='345419']
We're waisting away Ray and Ed's final years on flacco's watch...either get somebody in here that can get us over the hump or keep waisting our veteran players time...

Once again were one step away from the superbowl..and all we can say is "Flacco has a winning record"...sense when does that become the goal to our season
[/quote]
Do you realize that Ed Reed had never won a playoff game until last year? Reed never even experienced back-to back playoff appearances. Between that and his exellent 2008 season, one could argue that the best year of his career was during the first year of Flacco's.

Kyle Boller and company are the ones who Ray and Ed's best years were wasted with, not Flacco.

[I AM LEGEND]

[quote name='darklight1216' date='17 January 2010 - 08:36 PM' timestamp='1263775012' post='345411']
You're right. We should settle for no less than a Super Bowl win every single year.
[/quote]


Yes when you have championship caliber players on the field such as Ray,Ed,Rice and co...then a superbowl should be the main goal...

Teams like the Rams and Chiefs are proud about their QB's record

Teams like the Pats and Colts except no less then championships

but hey if you guys are overjoyed at Flacco being 3-2 in the playoffs...jump to the high Heavens

[D_UP]

Why is it ridiculous to call into question the play of the qb our wr are not great this is true but they are not covered each and every play I'm sittin here watchn mark sanchez make plays he isn't lighten it up but you can see he has some command of the game... this is way beyond wr he looks lost out there jus becuz someone can throw a deep ball doesn't make them a good qb...he looks like a deer caught in the headlights...flacco may turned out to be jus a serviceable qb and that's it

[darklight1216]

[quote name='I AM LEGEND' date='17 January 2010 - 07:45 PM' timestamp='1263775502' post='345429']
Yes when you have championship caliber players on the field such as Ray,Ed,Rice and co...then a superbowl should be the main goal...

Teams like the Rams and Chiefs are proud about their QB's record

[b]Teams like the Pats and Colts except no less then championships[/b]

but hey if you guys are overjoyed at Flacco being 3-2 in the playoffs...jump to the high Heavens
[/quote]
It took Peyton Manning eight years to win a Championship despite multiple playoff appearances. I guess they should have given up on him too.

[I AM LEGEND]

[quote name='darklight1216' date='17 January 2010 - 08:46 PM' timestamp='1263775577' post='345434']
It took Peyton Manning eight years to win a Championship despite multiple playoff appearances. I guess they should have given up on him too.
[/quote]

If Peyton had any of our defenses in the last decade he'd be at around 7 championships not 1

but hey what other team is better at wasting great defenses then us right...

[JohnJohnson]

Go away troll, you're annoying and you can't even spell basic words.

[darklight1216]

[quote name='I AM LEGEND' date='17 January 2010 - 07:52 PM' timestamp='1263775953' post='345450']
If Peyton had any of our defenses in the last decade he'd be at around 7 championships not 1
[/quote]
What evidence supports this?

The Colts had a top ten scoring defense in 2008, 2007, 2005, and 2002.

Flacco is the only Raven's qb to ever have back-to-back playoff appearances. He's a winner in the regular season, he gets to post-season and even wins there. His stats have improved and there is no reason to think that he's hit his ceiling. What more do you want?

Tom Brady doesn't win the SuperBowl every year, neither does Ben R. (who also has a great defense and usually a great running game too). Why do you expect Flacco to do what no one else can?

[SaVaGe]

Flacco is the best Qb this franchise has had to get that out of the way. Look Flacco is playing with 2 veteran receivers who are past their prime but still serviceable and then young WR's who look like busts. We need to take a page from the Packers also for play calling, Less guys to protect the Qb may be better as it gives him more targets with single coverage. The only thing Flacco needs to fix is his accuracy, it is great unless we are behind in which he consistently under throws the receiver.

[JohnJohnson]

What do you naysayers suggest we do? Just go snag an elite QB somewhere? What about the bad games that other good QBs have all the time, does that mean they're done? Is Tony Romo awful now because the Cowboys scored 3 points today? These arguments make no sense, how can you have the numbers that Flacco has without ability? Billick and Boller held this team back, we're just now getting to be yearly contenders and you guys are complaining? Unbelievable. If we had been the 5 seed we would have had a much better chance, lets see how the Jets do against the Colts. The Colts can actually stop the run when they focus on it, which is exactly what they'll do. Even if Flacco had thrown 20 picks, we'd be sticking with him because he has shown potential and it's his SECOND YEAR. But his numbers are actually fine, so either you're trolling or you should be embarrassed to call yourselves fans.

[Ravenite]

If not Flacco, then who?

Someone in FA?

Trade to get a QB?

You say we are one step away from the Superbowl..

Flacco was our QB to get there.. 1 game away..

Like I said..

Who else out there should we get just so we can satisfy the need to get our vets a ring?

Some of us are too anxious and maybe jealous but hey, I knew coming in that this year would be difficult to make a return to the Championship game.

Now we probably have fans saying we should have stuck with Rex JUST because the Jets are in the Championship game.

[darklight1216]

[quote name='SaVaGe' date='17 January 2010 - 08:10 PM' timestamp='1263777028' post='345497']
Flacco is the best Qb this franchise has had to get that out of the way. Look Flacco is playing with 2 veteran receivers who are past their prime but still serviceable and then young WR's who look like busts. We need to take a page from the Packers also for play calling, Less guys to protect the Qb may be better as it gives him more targets with single coverage. The only thing Flacco needs to fix is his accuracy, it is great unless we are behind in which he consistently under throws the receiver.
[/quote]
Is Heap one of the veteran receivers to which you are referring?

The Packers don't play in the AFC North. They don't have a team that has ended the season, and altered the career of a once elite qb, and they don't have to worry about facing the likes of Freeney nearly every year. The one time (okay, twice a year) they have to face an elite defensive line, they get their butts handed to them.

We have to protect our investment, and that limits some of our options, but that doesn't mean that guys like Mark Clayton (or underwhelming Cam Cameron, for that matter) should get a free pass.

[JohnJohnson]

[quote name='I AM LEGEND' date='17 January 2010 - 08:39 PM' timestamp='1263775182' post='345419']
We're waisting away Ray and Ed's final years on flacco's watch...either get somebody in here that can get us over the hump or keep waisting our veteran players time...

Once again were one step away from the superbowl..and all we can say is "Flacco has a winning record"...sense when does that become the goal to our season
[/quote]


That's just sad. You don't know the difference between waste and waist? Since and sense? I'm glad you're not in charge.

[JohnJohnson]

I guess Philip Rivers is done now too because he had a bad game.

[steeliam]

[quote name='D_UP' date='17 January 2010 - 08:45 PM' timestamp='1263775546' post='345432']
Why is it ridiculous to call into question the play of the qb our wr are not great this is true but they are not covered each and every play I'm sittin here watchn mark sanchez make plays he isn't lighten it up but you can see he has some command of the game... this is way beyond wr he looks lost out there jus becuz someone can throw a deep ball doesn't make them a good qb...he looks like a deer caught in the headlights...flacco may turned out to be jus a serviceable qb and that's it
[/quote]
I agree with D-UP I was pulling for the Ravens only because I wanted the AFCN to keep the Super bowl trophy. But several times when they showed Flacco,s face when he was being pressured in the pockit the same thought came to mind. Deer in the headlights what should I do what snould I do. He looked very confused. Hopefully he will get better with more time.

[McDirty33]

Joe's glaring flaw right now is pocket presence. He needs to learn to throw the ball away of hit a check-down receiver at the line. He can make all the throws, he has good touch, and I think he's developing into a leader for this team. Let's not forget this was only his second year. Not all great QB's were great in just Year 2.

But how can we honestly criticize Flacco with the receivers he has around him. Mason and Clatyon get almost NO separation from defenders, making Joe's job a lot harder. I hate when people say, "A great QB makes the receivers better." That may be true in a sense, but that's an awfully tall task to ask a 2nd year QB to force balls into tiny windows to undersized receivers. There were a lot of things stacked against Joe's success this year. All things considered, I'd say he had a decent year and look forward to him progressing in the future. The way I see it, it's as if you're asking Flacco to drive a Ferrari at 100 mph in first gear.

[demented ferret]

Joe is a good QB and has been really hurt for the past few games. I really think he is hiding his pain. Next year he will a lot more mobile. Just because he is not a rah rah guy like some of the other QBs, he is a leader and has great potential. Thanks Joe for 2 good years.

[ZRayvenZ]

[quote name='I AM LEGEND' date='17 January 2010 - 08:01 PM' timestamp='1263772878' post='345333']
You guys have to keep telling yourselves Flacco is doing a great job...to hide the fact that flacco really isn't doing a great job.


These are professional athletes that play to win the game...they don't judge their career based on how many playoff games they've been to or their performance in relevance to their age...it's based on winning the games..

Flacco is doing what every one of our QB's has done for the past decade and that's take a ride with a GREAT DEFENSE..I'm sick and tired of it...

Only here do you see fans holding the hands and babying a QB that was barely noticable in 2 playoff games this year...he's actually shown a slight regression from last year.

Give this kid a new Wr core and let's see what he can do..I really want him to succeed here but my gut is telling me he just doesn't have it.
[/quote]


I agree , almost 100%.
What my gut tells me he doesn't have is competent coaching. We have more problems on offense besides a guy who will go up in the sky after a ball and come down with it.
I give up on Cameron and Jackson, but not Joe.

[jusraven]

[quote name='SaVaGe' date='17 January 2010 - 08:10 PM' timestamp='1263777028' post='345497']
Flacco is the best Qb this franchise has had to get that out of the way. Look Flacco is playing with 2 veteran receivers who are past their prime but still serviceable and then young WR's who look like busts. We need to take a page from the Packers also for play calling, Less guys to protect the Qb may be better as it gives him more targets with single coverage. The only thing Flacco needs to fix is his accuracy, it is great unless we are behind in which he consistently under throws the receiver.
[/quote]

The OC is not planning across the middle routes. Easy for CB’s to defend when they need only defend the sidelines. Also, D Williams was doing a decent job when Clayton was out but the OC replaced him when Clayton’s injury healed. Watching the games week after week it’s easy to see that Joe has a tendency to throw too high. Across the middle a high ball easily becomes a turnover. I believe it has something to do with the lack of crossing routes in the plan. That has been just one of the many things the coaches has done to attempt to work away from the team’s weakness.

[Rinbee]

[quote name='Bltravens' date='17 January 2010 - 07:25 PM' timestamp='1263774353' post='345376']
You've endured a championship and division round in 2 years. Better than any other QB I can think off the top my head in their first 2 years. What the hell do you want the front office to do, trade up and draft sam bradford? Hell even the Jets have a better WR corps than we do.
[/quote]


A QB does not win a game by himself. Without Ray Rice and solid defense we may not have gotten by NE.

Also, you cannot look at raw stats, like completions or yards gained, ot of context. There are been many occasions when Flacco killed a red zone drive with an ill-advised pass or failing to get a first down near the end of the half or game. With just one FD, Indy might not score a second TD at the end of the first half. With one FD, we likely beat Cinn at M&T. It's not about turning Joe loose as someone else mentioned it's about turning the team loose. The big games we have lost were games where we turned Joe loose and turned more toward a passing game. Flacco is not yet an elite QB. His mechanics are not there yet. Whether he will be or not, no one can say.