Brady Versus Manning

[peytonmanning18]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' date='15 January 2010 - 12:55 PM' timestamp='1263578110' post='341545']
Good teams rarely give 24 points in the first quarter so I don't think you've said anything very profound.

And as for Brady not being half the quaterback Manning is, that's your opinion. However, the fact remains Manning doesn't have half the Super Bowls trophies Brady does.
[/quote]

Wrong, the Patriots have 3 rings and the Colts have 1. If Manning played for the Patriots he would have 7 or 8 rings by now, and if Brady played for the Colts they would struggle to win 5 or 6 games every year. But let's not turn this thread into a Colts/ Patriots flame war because their sorry asses are out of the tournament.

[Reddawn36]

[quote name='peytonmanning18' date='15 January 2010 - 01:04 PM' timestamp='1263578642' post='341557']
[b]Wrong, the Patriots have 3 rings and the Colts have 1.[/b] If Manning played for the Patriots he would have 7 or 8 rings by now, and if Brady played for the Colts they would struggle to win 5 or 6 games every year. But let's not turn this thread into a Colts/ Patriots flame war because their sorry asses are out of the tournament.
[/quote]

not to sound aggressive or anything

but did you fail math

3 divided by 2 = 1.5
1.5 > 1
Manning does in fact have less then half the Super Bowl wins Tom Brady has

and can you in fact prove that Manning would have 7 or 8 SB Wins if he played for the Patriots, because I honestly don't believe there is any evidence to that theory

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='peytonmanning18' date='15 January 2010 - 01:04 PM' timestamp='1263578642' post='341557']
Wrong, the Patriots have 3 rings and the Colts have 1. If Manning played for the Patriots he would have 7 or 8 rings by now, and if Brady played for the Colts they would struggle to win 5 or 6 games every year. But let's not turn this thread into a Colts/ Patriots flame war because their sorry asses are out of the tournament.
[/quote]

That's your opinion man. But it's pretty sad that for all the records and regular season wins Manning has had, he's only led his team to one Super Bowl. And don't pretend like Manning hasn't had a good(possibly great) supporting staff. The man had Harrison, Wayne, Stokley, and James all in their primes and still did nothing in the play-offs.

Regardless, this is going to be a tough for the Ravens but the Colts aren't a juggernaut. The fact that 7 of their 14 wins were won in the 4th quarter speaks to Manning's greatness but also their vulnerability as a team.

If the o-line(especially the interior) continues to maul, the Ravens will win. Yes, it's that simple.

[peytonmanning18]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' date='15 January 2010 - 01:10 PM' timestamp='1263579004' post='341571']
That's your opinion man. But it's pretty sad that for all the records and regular season wins Manning has had, he's only led his team to one Super Bowl. And don't pretend like Manning hasn't had a good(possibly great) supporting staff. The man had Harrison, Wayne, Stokley, and James all in their primes and still did nothing in the play-offs.

Regardless, this is going to be a tough for the Ravens but the Colts aren't a juggernaut. The fact that 7 of their 14 wins were won in the 4th quarter speaks to Manning's greatness but also their vulnerability as a team.

If the o-line(especially the interior) continues to maul, the Ravens will win. Yes, it's that simple.
[/quote]

For all those supposed playoff failures, the Colts have only been upset once, maybe twice in the playoffs. It's not like the Colts have the number 1 seed every year and get bounced by the 6 seed every year.

Average quarterbacks can guide great teams to Super Bowls like Roethlisberger and Brady, but GREAT quarterbacks can make below average teams look a lot better than they are. Sure Manning has had a lot of offensive weapons but I'm sure you are one of these guys that preaches about defense and running game winning in the playoffs. When quarterbacks like Brady and Roethlisberger make a mistake in a playoff game they had a great defense to bail them out, Manning has never had that.

[hill]

Let's go Ravens. I beleive the best is yet to come! All the way to Miami!

[Reddawn36]

[quote name='peytonmanning18' date='15 January 2010 - 01:22 PM' timestamp='1263579766' post='341584']
For all those supposed playoff failures, the Colts have only been upset once, maybe twice in the playoffs. It's not like the Colts have the number 1 seed every year and get bounced by the 6 seed every year.

Average quarterbacks can guide great teams to Super Bowls like Roethlisberger and Brady, but GREAT quarterbacks can make below average teams look a lot better than they are. Sure Manning has had a lot of offensive weapons but I'm sure you are one of these guys that preaches about defense and running game winning in the playoffs. When quarterbacks like Brady and Roethlisberger make a mistake in a playoff game they had a great defense to bail them out, Manning has never had that.
[/quote]

As much as I hate the Patriots and Tom Brady... along with the media on their jock strap

I can't call him average.... especially from where he was picked in the draft

plus idk how you can call someone average for breaking Most TD's thrown in a season among other records

[peytonmanning18]

[quote name='Reddawn36' date='15 January 2010 - 01:25 PM' timestamp='1263579951' post='341586']
As much as I hate the Patriots and Tom Brady... along with the media on their jock strap

I can't call him average.... especially from where he was picked in the draft

plus idk how you can call someone average for breaking Most TD's thrown in a season among other records
[/quote]

Ok I exaggerated a little he is good but I think he is a little overrated because he played on a great team. If Adam Vinatieri misses the FG against Oakland or 2 or 3 of the ones in the Super Bowl is Tom Brady really Tom Brady? What if Vanderjagt makes that field goal against Pittsburgh and the Colts go on to win the Super Bowl this year. I know this is a lot of ifs and buts but I just feel like Brady is a little overrated. Afterall, he lost the biggest game of his career and his last two really big games (the Super Bowl and Colts AFCCG, not to mention he came up small last week)

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='peytonmanning18' date='15 January 2010 - 01:22 PM' timestamp='1263579766' post='341584']
Average quarterbacks can guide great teams to Super Bowls like Roethlisberger and Brady, but GREAT quarterbacks can make below average teams look a lot better than they are. Sure Manning has had a lot of offensive weapons but I'm sure you are one of these guys that preaches about defense and running game winning in the playoffs. When quarterbacks like Brady and Roethlisberger make a mistake in a playoff game they had a great defense to bail them out, Manning has never had that.
[/quote]

Roethlisberger and Brady are average? I'm not a fan of them but both guys have done nothing but prove they're winners since they came into the league.

You talk about them guiding great teams but I clearly remember Brady throwing to players like Deion Branch, David Givens and Troy Brown and handing the ball off to Corey Dillon when he won his Super Bowls.

I don't [i]preach[/i] about the running game and defense winning in the play-offs but it's pretty obvious that those elements are important come play-off time. Just look at the teams that have won the Super Bowl in recent years.

And your final statement is wrong. Manning had a defense in '06 and they won. But even in the other years when they were bounced out of the play-off, he and the offense were the ones that failed, not the D.

[peytonmanning18]

[quote]You talk about them guiding great teams but I clearly remember Brady throwing to players like Deion Branch, David Givens and Troy Brown and handing the ball off to Corey Dillon when he won his Super Bowls.[/quote]

And those guys would be stars if Manning was throwing them the ball

[PuRock]

[quote name='ravensgirl20' date='15 January 2010 - 12:59 PM' timestamp='1263578380' post='341551']
So obviously I'm new around here, but I'm not going anywhere. But I've noticed when things heat up we get some loud mouth fan from the team we're going to face next, who feels they have something to prove jumping in trying to shout louder then everyone else. Is this standard? Maybe we should just keep a running list of all of them so when we beat them one by one, we can start a thread for them where they can all meet and commiserate together?
[/quote]

It is common. You can always pin point one or two of them. Usually good sports and if they lose, they usually do come back. It's just when it gets closer to game time, things start to really heat up.

[PuRock]

[quote name='peytonmanning18' date='15 January 2010 - 01:04 PM' timestamp='1263578642' post='341557']
Wrong, the Patriots have 3 rings and the Colts have 1. If Manning played for the Patriots he would have 7 or 8 rings by now, and if Brady played for the Colts they would struggle to win 5 or 6 games every year. But let's not turn this thread into a Colts/ Patriots flame war because their sorry asses are out of the tournament.
[/quote]

Really?

Patriots won a superbowl with guys like Deion Branch, David Patten and David Givens.

Manning needs guys like M Harrison, Dallas Clark and Reggie Wayne to help him win a superbowl.

Don't get me wrong, I'd take Manning over Brady anyday. But to say Manning would have 7 superbowls is ridiculous. Manning needs the cast, Brady hits the open man.

[peytonmanning18]

[quote name='PuRock' date='15 January 2010 - 01:38 PM' timestamp='1263580727' post='341598']
It is common. You can always pin point one or two of them. Usually good sports and if they lose, they usually do come back. It's just when it gets closer to game time, things start to really heat up.
[/quote]

Yes because this has been a long week and I just want to talk about the game because I am ridiculously pumped. Classes started back up this week and it has been a long time since the Colts played an actual game which made for an extra long week. I know the seats that are right next to mine at Lucas Oil are for sale so hopefully none of you guys are sitting there.

[peytonmanning18]

[quote name='PuRock' date='15 January 2010 - 01:42 PM' timestamp='1263580921' post='341600']
Really?

Patriots won a superbowl with guys like Deion Branch, David Patten and David Givens.

Manning needs guys like M Harrison, Dallas Clark and Reggie Wayne to help him win a superbowl.

Don't get me wrong, I'd take Manning over Brady anyday. But to say Manning would have 7 superbowls is ridiculous. Manning needs the cast, Brady hits the open man.
[/quote]

Harrison, Wayne and Clark are who they are because of Manning.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='peytonmanning18' date='15 January 2010 - 01:37 PM' timestamp='1263580656' post='341597']
And those guys would be stars if Manning was throwing them the ball
[/quote]

Another statement based entirely in speculation.

What proof do you have that Manning would make those receivers stars?

[peytonmanning18]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' date='15 January 2010 - 01:45 PM' timestamp='1263581110' post='341604']
Another statement based entirely in speculation.

What proof do you have that Manning would make those receivers stars?
[/quote]

this is a message board, not an encyclopedia

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='peytonmanning18' date='15 January 2010 - 01:44 PM' timestamp='1263581053' post='341603']
Harrison, Wayne and Clark are who they are because of Manning.
[/quote]

Again, that's your opinion.

Harrison had already established himself as a good receiver in the two seasons before Manning was there.

Wayne left Miami has the all-time leader in catches so it's not like he was a bum coming out of college. And I can't recall the amount of times I've seen him climb the ladder to make a ridiculous catch on a poorly thrown ball by Manning.

By your logic, Randy Moss was the receiver he was in Minnesota because of Daunte Culpepper. LOL!!

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='peytonmanning18' date='15 January 2010 - 01:48 PM' timestamp='1263581284' post='341609']
this is a message board, not an encyclopedia
[/quote]

Yes it is but that doesn't excuse you from making outlandish statements with nothing to back them up.

[peytonmanning18]

[quote]By your logic, Randy Moss was the receiver he was in Minnesota because of Daunte Culpepper. LOL!! [/quote]

This has nothing to do with anything. There is such thing as a good receiver. Culpepper has been awful since he left Minnesota. Randy Moss would make any QB look good because all you have to do is throw it up in the air and let him out jump every body.

[beasy2487]

[quote name='peytonmanning18' date='15 January 2010 - 01:04 PM' timestamp='1263578642' post='341557']
[b]Wrong, the Patriots have 3 rings and the Colts have 1. If Manning played for the Patriots he would have 7 or 8 rings by now, and if Brady played for the Colts they would struggle to win 5 or 6 games every year.[/b] But let's not turn this thread into a Colts/ Patriots flame war because their sorry asses are out of the tournament.
[/quote]

Completely wrong? Early in both their careers Manning was a supreme choke artist and Brady was the definition of clutch... Are you kidding me? Both great QBs, Manning is in my opinion better but what makes better?

And as far as arithmetic goes, 1 is less than half of 3.

Again, both good QBs, and Manning will have to dig deep to win this game. I think the football gods will weigh the sweat and blood the Ravens were pouring onto the field the last two weeks of the season while the Colts' starters were on the sidelines playing double dutch and reward us for grinding it out.

It's going to be a great game, regardless of the outcome!

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='peytonmanning18' date='15 January 2010 - 01:55 PM' timestamp='1263581731' post='341619']
This has nothing to do with anything. [b]There is such thing as a good receiver. [/b] Culpepper has been awful since he left Minnesota. Randy Moss would make any QB look good because all you have to do is throw it up in the air and let him out jump every body.
[/quote]

So you're saying Harrison, Wayne, Clark aren't good receivers? Because it's obvious without Manning, they'd be nobodies.

[peytonmanning18]

[quote]Completely wrong? Early in both their careers Manning was a supreme choke artist and Brady was the definition of clutch... Are you kidding me? Both great QBs, Manning is in my opinion better but what makes better?[/quote]

Manning was a choker and Brady was clutch because the Patriots beat the Colts twice in the playoffs in Foxboro in horrible conditions. The one time the two played in Indianapolis in the playoffs, the Colts won.

[beasy2487]

[quote name='peytonmanning18' date='15 January 2010 - 03:03 PM' timestamp='1263585823' post='341670']
Manning was a choker and Brady was clutch [b]because the Patriots beat the Colts twice in the playoffs in Foxboro in horrible conditions.[/b] The one time the two played in Indianapolis in the playoffs, the Colts won.
[/quote]

Uh. Did you stop watching before any of the Super Bowls? Brady was clutch because of the Super Bowls not because of games against Indy. Those were just icing on the cake.

And really? Horrible conditions? Aren't we talking about football? Horrible conditions my ****** if you can't play well an any conditions you don't deserve rings. Period.

Just admit they're both great QBs I don't understand what you're trying to prove right now.

[JEEPercreepermd]

[quote name='peytonmanning18' date='15 January 2010 - 01:48 PM' timestamp='1263581284' post='341609']
this is a message board, not an encyclopedia
[/quote]
No it's not, but to be accepted by the crowd here you have to know what you are talking about, and prove it by backing up your claims with cold hard facts. Otherwise we'll call it like we see it and label you a TROLL

[thewarden86]

Manning - Team designed around what a brilliant QB he is.

Brady - Product of a good system (system QB).

[purple_pride]

[quote name='thewarden86' date='15 January 2010 - 04:09 PM' timestamp='1263589754' post='341727']
Manning - Team designed around what a brilliant QB he is.

Brady - Product of a good system (system QB).
[/quote]

u really think its the system?? i don't know.u may be right though but ill give the nod to brady because
back when he had no name wide outs he was a better qb. no he wasnt putting up crazy numbers like 07. but i think he was a better all around qb. after he got thoes "wepons" its like he got spoiled. now all he does is drop back and look for walker till they reach the red zone and then trow it to moss. (ok they do more then that but u get the picture) so brady back wen he didnt have "wepons" was a great qb imo.

manning is great and when hes done playing will hold almost all if all the records for qbs.

brady might win one more. but his legend is pretty much set i think.

big ben is on his way to becoming one of the best clutch qbs in the history of the game. not to mention he just wins. but thats just my two cents

[thewarden86]

[quote name='purple_pride' date='15 January 2010 - 05:51 PM' timestamp='1263595873' post='341811']
[b]u really think its the system?? [/b]i don't know.u may be right though but ill give the nod to brady because
back when he had no name wide outs he was a better qb. no he wasnt putting up crazy numbers like 07. but i think he was a better all around qb. after he got thoes "wepons" its like he got spoiled. now all he does is drop back and look for walker till they reach the red zone and then trow it to moss. (ok they do more then that but u get the picture) so brady back wen he didnt have "wepons" was a great qb imo.

manning is great and when hes done playing will hold almost all if all the records for qbs.

brady might win one more. but his legend is pretty much set i think.

big ben is on his way to becoming one of the best clutch qbs in the history of the game. not to mention he just wins. but thats just my two cents
[/quote]

I think you could put any decent QB back there and he will have success. He's not really much of a leader either like Manning is or Montana was (both men that he's constantly compared to).

[purple_pride]

yeah hes no montana (my fav qb of all time)
but your probably right though. but you cant just put some nobody. like i dnt think quinn would win 10 games. probably 6 or 7. while matt cassle or w.e his name is won like 11 after sitting on the bench for a few years.

[thewarden86]

[quote name='purple_pride' date='15 January 2010 - 06:06 PM' timestamp='1263596767' post='341824']
yeah hes no montana (my fav qb of all time)
but your probably right though. but you cant just put some nobody. like i dnt think quinn would win 10 games. probably 6 or 7. while matt cassle or w.e his name is won like 11 after sitting on the bench for a few years.
[/quote]

I think even Brady Quinn would do well there. Jamarcus Russell? not so much, but any QB with the "Basics" and some work ethic.

[3Zach21]

Manning's over Brady... Manning is just a genius. Don't get me wrong I hate the Colts but you have to give respect to where it's due. Manning goes every play making calls at the line of scrimmage. Sure Brady has 3 Super Bowls, but back when the Patriots won the Super Bowl those 3 times, the Patriots defense was way better than the Colts was during that same era. Yes Brady own's the passing TD in a season mark, but Randy Moss also broke the Reception TD mark that same year. Randy Moss, when trying, can catch everything. Moss was a huge part to Brady's success that season. Manning can make anybody look great...like Pierre Garcon, do you really think he would have the year he had somewhere else?

[bacchys]

I think Brady has been the better QB. Manning has put up great numbers on a team built around him and his strengths. They've sacrificed on the defensive side to make sure he has the receiving corps and the offensive line.

Brady's led very different teams to championships. Early in his career the Patriots had a below-average run offense, a solid defense (though not spectacular), and average receivers. The box score would show him hitting 9 to 11 receivers every game. They signed Corey Dillon and became a run-oriented offense, and Brady adjusted. Then they switched to a pass-heavy offense with Moss and Welker, and he adjusted again.

Manning is a smart QB and he's probably as capable of leading such different styles on offense, but he hasn't had to do that in his career.