To Heck With Character......

[Ravens_Fan13]

Im so sick of hearing about stand up guys and playing like ravens..... No point in this year have we played like a raven the ravens i use to know were hard hitting smash mouth and didnt give a crap what anyone thought of them and thats the same mentality the coach had. As far a i can remember we have been the out casts the bad boys of the nfl....does anyone else miss that as much as i do?

[theFRANCHISE]

So...you want us to be the Oakland Raiders?

[Raven-In-ATL]

AMEN! We were like the old school Raiders. Every sack came with a complimentary tombstone. Did you see Aaron Rodgers in the last game? That was the least concerned quarterback I have ever seen. It looked like he showed up to a play a game of pitch and catch.

[Ravens_Fan13]

[quote name='theFRANCHISE' date='09 December 2009 - 04:52 PM' timestamp='1260391938' post='308280']
So...you want us to be the Oakland Raiders?
[/quote]

Are you kidding me? i want to be who we use to be....

[McBoller]

[quote name='theFRANCHISE' date='09 December 2009 - 03:52 PM' timestamp='1260391938' post='308280']
So...you want us to be the Oakland Raiders?
[/quote]
the ones that just beat the Steelers? fine with me...

[theFRANCHISE]

[quote name='Ravens_Fan13' date='09 December 2009 - 03:53 PM' timestamp='1260392002' post='308282']
Are you kidding me? i want to be who we use to be....
[/quote]
So, you want the flag-fest that was the Monday night game against the Patriots in 2007, melting down like no other Ravens team had melted down before, embarassing ourselves on national television?

And the Raiders that beat the Steelers this past Sunday are still the same Raiders that haven't had a winning season since 2002. That's a 7-year drought that I'd rather not have.

[Ravens_Fan13]

[quote name='theFRANCHISE' date='09 December 2009 - 04:57 PM' timestamp='1260392255' post='308285']
So, you want the flag-fest that was the Monday night game against the Patriots in 2007, melting down like no other Ravens team had melted down before, embarassing ourselves on national television?

And the Raiders that beat the Steelers this past Sunday are still the same Raiders that haven't had a winning season since 2002. That's a 7-year drought that I'd rather not have.
[/quote]

So your telling me you are happy with where we are and what we have done this year?

[Ed_Reed20]

What's point of this topic? I want a team that doesn't commit foolish penalties in key moments in the game and is competitive year in and year out.

To say, "...to hell with character!" is just a cry of frustration that doesn't achieve anything.

[theFRANCHISE]

[quote name='Ravens_Fan13' date='09 December 2009 - 04:00 PM' timestamp='1260392411' post='308289']
So your telling me you are happy with where we are and what we have done this year?
[/quote]
Of course I'm not happy with where the team is at now, but at the same time, to still be in the playoff hunt heading into Week 14 is something that we haven't always seen from this team. I'd rather have this kind of season if we're to struggle than a season like 2007 or 2005. At least we've been our own worst enemy, rather than the other team simply beating us; being our own worst enemy means that things can be fixed -- being beaten soundly means we're just plain bad.

What I'm saying is, the reason why everyone is impatient is because last season, the team came so close to finishing with a Super Bowl. That's gotten everyone spoiled. There's always a growing pain, and we were just fortunate as fans to have had such a great first season under Harbaugh. But now the growing pains begin, and will continue throughout the rest of the season. But they're called growing pains for a reason, and we'll see the fruits of them soon enough. In fact, we've already seen them with how we've been able to stay in the game in the 4th quarter in each loss.

[Ravens_Fan13]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' date='09 December 2009 - 05:01 PM' timestamp='1260392494' post='308290']
What's point of this topic? I want a team that doesn't commit foolish penalties in key moments in the game and is competitive year in and year out.

To say, "...to hell with character!" is just a cry of frustration that doesn't achieve anything.
[/quote]

Did billick care about character? the answer is no we get all this B.S. crap we allowed three 100 yard rushers this year and this is acceptible to you? i dont like the state of this team under harbaugh right now

[Ravens_Fan13]

[quote name='theFRANCHISE' date='09 December 2009 - 05:06 PM' timestamp='1260392763' post='308294']
Of course I'm not happy with where the team is at now, but at the same time, to still be in the playoff hunt heading into Week 14 is something that we haven't always seen from this team. I'd rather have this kind of season if we're to struggle than a season like 2007 or 2005. At least we've been our own worst enemy, rather than the other team simply beating us; being our own worst enemy means that things can be fixed -- being beaten soundly means we're just plain bad.

What I'm saying is, the reason why everyone is impatient is because last season, the team came so close to finishing with a Super Bowl. That's gotten everyone spoiled. There's always a growing pain, and we were just fortunate as fans to have had such a great first season under Harbaugh. But now the growing pains begin, and will continue throughout the rest of the season. But they're called growing pains for a reason, and we'll see the fruits of them soon enough. In fact, we've already seen them with how we've been able to stay in the game in the 4th quarter in each loss.
[/quote]

I agree with ya 100% on that man i do but harbaugh has made some pretty big decisions that hurt us pretty bad in the offseason and in the season.... its just frustrating

[Purple Punishment]

The point that he is trying to make is that our coach is so concerned with the "character" within people that he would rather release or bench a player no matter how talented they are if they dont have "character" because of "character" Demetrius Williams is riding the bench when he can clearly beat a CB which neither Mason or Clayton could in GB with any form of consistency this year.

I hear "Play Like A Raven" being preeched when a camera or a microphone is in Harbs face but I dont see it converting to the field of play. I mean our Offense didnt even look willing to approach the LOS on MNF. I dont call that playing like a Raven.

What kills me the most is that they dedicated this season to OJ Brigance. If we had more people on this team that is half the fighter that OJ is then we would be sitting at 12-0. Whats it going to take to just have some damn fun like we did in the preseason where our 3RD String destroyed the Falcons 1ST Team? Are our guys overthinking on plays? Maybe theres just too much pressure on them to win like we did last season. Everyone says it was a fluke last year but our guys FOUGHT HARD in every game. I have only seen it in spurts this year.....

Im done talking!

[FerrariFan87]

I wouldn't mind Ozzie taking a chance on an exceptional player who may have some character flaws (Like a Randy Moss, who had character question marks coming into the NFL but has had a Hall of Fame career) or even a Percy Harvin who dropped to the Vikings because of "character issues" but learned from his mistakes and is probably the Rookie of the Year.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Ravens_Fan13' date='09 December 2009 - 04:06 PM' timestamp='1260392809' post='308295']
Did billick care about character? the answer is no we get all this B.S. crap we allowed three 100 yard rushers this year and this is acceptible to you? i dont like the state of this team under harbaugh right now
[/quote]

I'm pretty sure Billick cared about character and if he didn't, that's why he isn't coaching in the league anymore.

You're rant is all over the place! What does giving up a 100-yard rusher have to do with anything? The Ravens were a missed field goal and a penalty-aided drive away from winning two of those games they allowed the 100-yard rusher.

I could care less if they gave up 200 yards to a RB. As long as they won the game.

I'm not happy with certain aspects of the team either but I'm not so blinded by anger that I can't see the future of the team(at least on the offensive side of the ball) is bright.

[Ravens_Fan13]

[quote name='Purple Punishment' date='09 December 2009 - 05:13 PM' timestamp='1260393198' post='308303']
The point that he is trying to make is that our coach is so concerned with the "character" within people that he would rather release or bench a player no matter how talented they are if they dont have "character" because of "character" Demetrius Williams is riding the bench when he can clearly beat a CB which neither Mason or Clayton could in GB with any form of consistency this year.

I hear "Play Like A Raven" being preeched when a camera or a microphone is in Harbs face but I dont see it converting to the field of play. I mean our Offense didnt even look willing to approach the LOS on MNF. I dont call that playing like a Raven.

What kills me the most is that they dedicated this season to OJ Brigance. If we had more people on this team that is half the fighter that OJ is then we would be sitting at 12-0. Whats it going to take to just have some damn fun like we did in the preseason where our 3RD String destroyed the Falcons 1ST Team? Are our guys overthinking on plays? Maybe theres just too much pressure on them to win like we did last season. Everyone says it was a fluke last year but our guys FOUGHT HARD in every game. I have only seen it in spurts this year.....

Im done talking!
[/quote]

Exactly A+

[Purple Punishment]

Instead of our team being about character....how about: Win By Any Means Necessary....I like that attitude, it was very befitting of us last season and somehow it got changed in lesss than 6 months

[Ravens_Fan13]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' date='09 December 2009 - 05:14 PM' timestamp='1260393243' post='308305']
I'm pretty sure Billick cared about character and if he didn't, that's why he isn't coaching in the league anymore.

You're rant is all over the place! What does giving up a 100-yard rusher have to do with anything? The Ravens were a missed field goal and a penalty-aided drive away from winning two of those games they allowed the 100-yard rusher.

I could care less if they gave up 200 yards to a RB. As long as they won the game.

I'm not happy with certain aspects of the team either but I'm not so blinded by anger that I can't see the future of the team(at least on the offensive side of the ball) is bright.
[/quote]

Dude my rant is not all over the place i agree and have agree'd alot of times im not really worried about talent we have alot of it getting ready to get there chances and developing into studs i do beleive we have alot of talent but if your not using it because you have them in the so called "Dog House" is just plaint out rediculous and im not saying i want to draft a bunch of convicts like the bengals at all simply stating give a huge player a shot dont write them off because they have had a few fallouts with team and management.......

[theFRANCHISE]

[quote name='Purple Punishment' date='09 December 2009 - 04:13 PM' timestamp='1260393198' post='308303']
because of "character" Demetrius Williams is riding the bench when he can clearly beat a CB which neither Mason or Clayton could in GB with any form of consistency this year.
[/quote]
Demetrius Williams is riding the bench because he struggles to stay on the field, and when he's healthy, he struggles to run routes. I don't remember reading anything about Williams' character, so I fail to see the point made there.

In terms of beating cornerbacks, he couldn't beat Tramon Williams with consistency (pass interference penalties aside), nor could he make the one catch he was supposed to make when the ball hit him in the hands. He failed to capitalize on opportunities in the preseason as well.

Bottom line, you make the most of your opportunities, and he hasn't done that thus far. His injuries early in his career set him back almost permanently.

[Ravens_Fan13]

[quote name='Purple Punishment' date='09 December 2009 - 05:19 PM' timestamp='1260393540' post='308309']
Instead of our team being about character....how about: Win By Any Means Necessary....I like that attitude, it was very befitting of us last season and somehow it got changed in lesss than 6 months
[/quote]

Hit it on the head again man we must have the same feeling on this maybe we should make a church quire instead of a football team....on sundays we will go sing instead of playing football....Teams use to fear us now they salivate at the thought of playing us

[Ed_Reed20]

It's easy to complain but the fact that is, there is no definite solution. The fact is, the team is in heavy transition as far the players go. Why would you go ahead and change the coaching staff?

Management and the coaching staff has made poor decisions but they've made some good ones too. This is basically the same staff that took the team to the AFC Championship. They know what they're doing but a lot of things have happened in the off-season and during the season that's been completely out of their control.

You can call them excuses and call for heads to roll but what does it say about a franchise when it fires it's HC after two seasons?

[Purple Punishment]

[quote name='theFRANCHISE' date='09 December 2009 - 04:19 PM' timestamp='1260393592' post='308311']
I don't remember reading anything about Williams' character, so I fail to see the point made there.[/quote]

The point is D Will showed up late for a practice.....and Harbs unloaded on him. So there is a point being made.

Also I didnt see D Mase catch any balls when he was interfered with as well.

Im not against Mason or Clayton. I am against keeping our burner on the bench when we need him.

I am against having 2 small bodied WRs as our #1 and #2 when the job is not getting done out there.

Most Importantly, I am against letting good talent go to waste like what John Harbaugh is doing to D Will.

Im against Mark Clayton averaging 3 receptions a game and his average is tied with Kelley Washington who is mainly used for 3rd downs. That just sad dude

[Ravens_Fan13]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' date='09 December 2009 - 05:23 PM' timestamp='1260393797' post='308315']
It's easy to complain but the fact that is, there is no definite solution. The fact is, the team is in heavy transition as far the players go. Why would you go ahead and change the coaching staff?

Management and the coaching staff has made poor decisions but they've made some good ones too. This is basically the same staff that took the team to the AFC Championship. They know what they're doing but a lot of things have happened in the off-season and during the season that's been completely out of their control.

You can call them excuses and call for heads to roll but what does it say about a franchise when it fires it's HC after two seasons?
[/quote]

Well i am ranting a little out of controll and i will admitt that but my reason was huge name coaches out there looking for work... I just dont want this to happen every year my biggest fear us turning into a average team and thats what we are right now of course we can beat teams like the browns and the lions but we cant get over the hump when its a better team and it means something we have had multiple games that was super important and we have lost every one of them..

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Ravens_Fan13' date='09 December 2009 - 04:19 PM' timestamp='1260393573' post='308310']
Dude my rant is not all over the place i agree and have agree'd alot of times im not really worried about talent we have alot of it getting ready to get there chances and developing into studs i do beleive we have alot of talent but if your not using it because you have them in the so called "Dog House" is just plaint out rediculous and im not saying i want to draft a bunch of convicts like the bengals at all simply stating give a huge player a shot dont write them off because they have had a few fallouts with team and management.......
[/quote]

Would the same players that haven't got their opportunity really make a difference? And exactly how many of those players aren't getting an opportunity?

None of us know how some of these players practice. Forget fallouts, some guys may not be getting opportunity because they've simply done nothing to deserve one.

So for you to say it's the coaches or management is an assumption with zero facts to back it up.

[Ravens_Fan13]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' date='09 December 2009 - 05:27 PM' timestamp='1260394054' post='308320']
Would the same players that haven't got their opportunity really make a difference? And exactly how many of those players aren't getting an opportunity?

None of us know how some of these players practice. Forget fallouts, some guys may not be getting opportunity because they've simply done nothing to deserve one.

So for you to say it's the coaches or management is an assumption with zero facts to back it up.
[/quote]

Lets see barnes was getting through more then anyone on our D and getting holding calls monday night and D-WILL had 2 massive PI calls on him...thats because he was constantly beating his man....and these guys are bench warmers??? something dosent make sense here?

[Purple Punishment]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' date='09 December 2009 - 04:27 PM' timestamp='1260394054' post='308320']
Would the same players that haven't got their opportunity really make a difference? And exactly how many of those players aren't getting an opportunity?

None of us know how some of these players practice. Forget fallouts, some guys may not be getting opportunity because they've simply done nothing to deserve one.

So for you to say it's the coaches or management is an assumption with zero facts to back it up.
[/quote]

Theres definitely an argument here because ummm look at Ladarius Webb. He has worked his rear end off all season to get on the 1st team and it took 11 weeks to see that he can do better than Carr or Walker? Yeah he didnt do anything to deserve an opportunity until week 10 i guess

[Alexir]

[quote name='theFRANCHISE' date='09 December 2009 - 03:57 PM' timestamp='1260392255' post='308285']
So, you want the flag-fest that was the Monday night game against the Patriots in 2007, melting down like no other Ravens team had melted down before, embarassing ourselves on national television?

And the Raiders that beat the Steelers this past Sunday are still the same Raiders that haven't had a winning season since 2002. That's a 7-year drought that I'd rather not have.
[/quote]

Um, whats the difference between the Flagfest between the 2007 Pats game and the MNF against the Pack earlier this week....

EDIT: Thanks Purple

[theFRANCHISE]

[quote name='Alexir' date='09 December 2009 - 04:32 PM' timestamp='1260394370' post='308328']
Um, whats the difference between the Flagfest between the 2007 Pats game and the MNF against the Pats earlier this week....
[/quote]
There were no flags thrown into the stands, helmets thrown on the ground, and general whining and complaining that made the players look like children.

[Purple Punishment]

[quote name='Alexir' date='09 December 2009 - 04:32 PM' timestamp='1260394370' post='308328']
Um, whats the difference between the Flagfest between the 2007 Pats game and the [b]MNF against the Pats earlier this week....[/b]
[/quote]


I think u mean Packers

[Wacko4Zacko]

I somewhat agree, but there needs to be some character. I dont wnat us having players who get fined almost every week or suspended because that hurts how we play. But i think harbuagh is over doing it.

[Alexir]

[quote name='theFRANCHISE' date='09 December 2009 - 04:34 PM' timestamp='1260394444' post='308330']
There were no flags thrown into the stands, helmets thrown on the ground, and general whining and complaining that made the players look like children.
[/quote]

2 Words. Derrick. Mason. lol

And that was different, a ref taunted Samari Rolle and Bart was pissed about it. Atleast it showed Heart. I wouldn't say we whined at all in that Pats game.