Merged: Restraining Order On Suggs

[RavingRaven]

[quote name='edreedfromtheu' date='05 December 2009 - 10:55 PM' timestamp='1260071717' post='302605']
Look... I think we can all agree that Suggs isn't exactly the best looking guy out there. This girl got her money, and probably wants to move on to someone other guy who isn't nearly as famous or rich, but appeals to her more physically.

Remember... Eve ate the apple!
[/quote]

I hate to say it but you are spot on. Suggs is pretty busted so unless the lady he's with is close to the same level of hurtness, then this is exactly the case.

[Purple Punishment]

[quote name='Shawn`' date='05 December 2009 - 07:49 PM' timestamp='1260060589' post='302540']
Yeah, you're thinking way too far.

It's a restraining order, if anything, Suggs will play better after controversy.
[/quote]

You could say he pulled a Jim Brown.....Maybe ol Jim should come back and talk to our guys because whatever he said before our 2000 season was like the mortar between the bricks of a stone wall defense

[Bltravens]

[quote name='Wacko4Zacko' date='05 December 2009 - 09:58 PM' timestamp='1260071928' post='302606']
If Suggs is guilty, you can say goodbye to him becuase harbuagh is all about "character"
[/quote]
Theres nothing to be guilty of, no charges were filed its just a restraining order. And Harbaugh would have to be a complete boob to let go of Suggs.

[darklight1216]

[quote name='RavingRaven' date='05 December 2009 - 05:54 PM' timestamp='1260053689' post='302499']
I'm okay with this because Harbaugh, while I like him much more than Billick, has not done what is best for his team in every situation. [b]If we had Bowe, Marshall or Boldin we would not be in a wild card race, we would be winning the division.[/b] Harbaugh denied these players because of their off the field, on in Boldin's case (screaming at coach during SB XL) issues.
[/quote]
Denver repeatedly said that they were not going to trade Brandon Marshall. I'm not sure what the asking price was for Bowe, but Boldin would have cost us both Michael Oher and Lardarius Webb. Do you really think that would have been the best thing for our team?

Hindsight is twenty-twenty and we know that Jared Gaither and Fabian Washington have missed time. (It's also not a stretch to imagine that our second round pick might have been different too, so there goes Kruger as well.) With that in mind, I think that Ozzie made the right choice. Boldin was just too expensive.

If anything good comes out of Suggs legal trouble, it will probably be the "us against the world" attitude that came over the team when Ray was going through his thing.

[K-Dog]

[quote name='Bltravens' date='05 December 2009 - 11:20 PM' timestamp='1260073203' post='302615']
Theres nothing to be guilty of, no charges were filed its just a restraining order. [/quote]


In case you missed it this guy brings up a very valid point.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='darklight1216' date='05 December 2009 - 10:26 PM' timestamp='1260073592' post='302616']
Denver repeatedly said that they were not going to trade Brandon Marshall. I'm not sure what the asking price was for Bowe, but Boldin would have cost us both Michael Oher and Lardarius Webb. Do you really think that would have been the best thing for our team?

Hindsight is twenty-twenty and we know that Jared Gaither and Fabian Washington have missed time. (It's also not a stretch to imagine that our second round pick might have been different too, so there goes Kruger as well.) With that in mind, I think that Ozzie made the right choice. Boldin was just too expensive.

If anything good comes out of Suggs legal trouble, it will probably be the "us against the world" attitude that came over the team when Ray was going through his thing.
[/quote]
I could use me some us against the world Ravens style.

[Sizzle]

[quote name='edreedfromtheu' date='05 December 2009 - 10:55 PM' timestamp='1260071717' post='302605']
Look... I think we can all agree that Suggs isn't exactly the best looking guy out there. This girl got her money, and probably wants to move on to someone other guy who isn't nearly as famous or rich, but appeals to her more physically.

Remember... Eve ate the apple!
[/quote]
LOL to you and the guy that replied to your post.

[RavingRaven]

[quote name='K-Dog' date='05 December 2009 - 11:33 PM' timestamp='1260074008' post='302618']
In case you missed it this guy brings up a very valid point.
[/quote]
Agreed, but the media has already tarnished our image, so conviction means jack, rumor means everything and to the public, perception is reality. Go to ESPN and check out the nfl headline Suggs article and responses to follow.

Has Big Ben been convicted of rape? Has Tiger been convicted of infidelity (not that such a charge exists but you get the picture)? Was Ray convicted of murder?

I realize a restraining order, legally, is meaningless on the subject of guilt or evidence of a crime by either party. The public immediately thinks big ugly brute beating women. Only those of us bleeding purple say gold digging liar, even though the public knows this is most likely the case. Do you really think Ben raped a glorified cocktail delivery waitress? But it sure is fun to turn the world against steeler nation and their large-headed leader.

I'm trying to see the glass as half full and to look for treasure in trash. Like one of the other posters stated "us against the world" mentality that became positive in 2000.

[ray-ray is a beast-beast]

[quote name='RavingRaven' date='06 December 2009 - 12:55 AM' timestamp='1260075349' post='302629']
Agreed, but the media has already tarnished our image, so conviction means jack, rumor means everything and to the public, perception is reality. Go to ESPN and check out the nfl headline Suggs article and responses to follow.

Has Big Ben been convicted of rape? Has Tiger been convicted of infidelity (not that such a charge exists but you get the picture)? Was Ray convicted of murder?

I realize a restraining order, legally, is meaningless on the subject of guilt or evidence of a crime by either party. The public immediately thinks big ugly brute beating women. Only those of us bleeding purple say gold digging liar, even though the public knows this is most likely the case. Do you really think Ben raped a glorified cocktail delivery waitress? But it sure is fun to turn the world against steeler nation and their large-headed leader.

I'm trying to see the glass as half full and to look for treasure in trash. Like one of the other posters stated "us against the world" mentality that became positive in 2000.
[/quote]

Yeah, this thread is about perception -- the public perception and harbaugh's perception -- so, it doesn't really matter that no charges have been filed. The perception of Suggs has been negatively altered.

And, to all of those who don't believe Harbaugh would shoot himself in the own foot to punish a "woman beater" just don't know Harbs. I bet there is nothing he, as the moral authority he obviously believes himself to be, finds more offensive than a man who puts his hands on a woman (I get that we don't know that Suggs put his hands on a woman, but it's reasonably fair to assume given the nature of restraining orders).

I could [i]easily[/i] see him setting Suggs up in the doghouse for this one.

[LilyRaven]

Unless he actually harmed her in some way, it's not a restraining order but a peace order. Anyone can get one of those against anyone by simply going to the courthouse. At least that's how it works in PG county. Without an arrest record, I'm staying extremely sceptical.

I think I'm catching a whiff of Eau de Gold-digger.

[ravens27]

I think Harbaugh is a pretty good coach. His discipline might get on my nerves sometimes with his "doghouse", but he is just doing what is best for the team. Harbaugh just wants the Ravens to be a great group of guys.

[Moderator 2]

[quote name='LilyRaven' date='06 December 2009 - 12:18 AM' timestamp='1260076687' post='302634']
Unless he actually harmed her in some way, it's not a restraining order but a peace order[b]. Anyone can get one of those against anyone by simply going to the courthouse.[/b] At least that's how it works in PG county. Without an arrest record, I'm staying extremely sceptical.

I think I'm catching a whiff of Eau de Gold-digger.
[/quote]

Then they give you a Court Date so the judge can hear both sides, my son had a crazy girl stalking him so I looked into it, and he is not a wealthy athlete.

That is why the court needs to play out before anyone passes judgment, they are 3 side to every story-his side, her side and somewhere in the middle is the truth. Works that way with Suggs and with Ben and his issue

[Alexir]

Character overcomes adversity...[img]http://boards.baltimoreravens.com/public/style_emoticons/default/34853_shakehead.GIF[/img]

[Ed_Reed_Pick_Six]

[quote name='Alexir' date='06 December 2009 - 07:22 PM' timestamp='1260084163' post='302662']
Character overcomes adversity...[img]http://boards.baltimoreravens.com/public/style_emoticons/default/34853_shakehead.GIF[/img]
[/quote]
Restrain like a Raven!

[LilyRaven]

[quote name='Moderator 2' date='06 December 2009 - 01:10 AM' timestamp='1260079850' post='302642']
Then they give you a Court Date so the judge can hear both sides, my son had a crazy girl stalking him so I looked into it, and he is not a wealthy athlete.

That is why the court needs to play out before anyone passes judgment, they are 3 side to every story-his side, her side and somewhere in the middle is the truth. Works that way with Suggs and with Ben and his issue
[/quote]


Even after the court date, a peace order carries no admission of guilt. The judge can decide that you simply have to stay away from each other with no proof of wrong-doing. We dealt with a crazy boy and carried it out to completion. Because I was the one he decided to harass (better me than my daughter at least) I had to carry a copy of the order in my purse for six months in case he ever decided to violate it.

[T-Sizzle55]

[quote name='PurpleChaos' date='05 December 2009 - 09:02 PM' timestamp='1260064933' post='302557']
Suggs=overrated and over paid
[/quote]

You need to watch more games before you come out here and say he's overrated. Ozzie says, "Right Player for the right price". Ozzie feels Suggs is worth a big contract and he can judge talent better than almost anyone else in the league. He's already set a team record for loss of yards due to sack. He's also 14 sacks away from setting a team record for sacks held by Peter Boulware since 2005. He has 5 INTs taking for 2 TDs. Suggs has the ability to change a game entirely. He forced Brady to fumble allowing a Ravens TD and put us back in the game. Suggs starts off slow but finishes hot plus he's not just a pass rusher. He drops into coverage and has the talent to to be diverse and used in several different ways.

I should also add he's never been hurt before this season. The Indy game in week 11 is the first game He has missed in the past 7 seasons on this team.

[Guest I-70WestRaven]

[quote name='Ed_Reed_Pick_Six' date='05 December 2009 - 06:23 PM' timestamp='1260059003' post='302531']
What has Suggs supposedly done?
[/quote]
Showed he's only human!

[Demchick]

[quote name='ray-ray is a beast-beast' date='06 December 2009 - 12:12 AM' timestamp='1260076335' post='302632']And, to all of those who don't believe Harbaugh would shoot himself in the own foot to punish a "woman beater" just don't know Harbs. I bet there is nothing he, as the moral authority he obviously believes himself to be, finds more offensive than a man who puts his hands on a woman (I get that we don't know that Suggs put his hands on a woman, but it's reasonably fair to assume given the nature of restraining orders).

I could [i]easily[/i] see him setting Suggs up in the doghouse for this one.
[/quote]

This comes up a lot. My question is, with the exception of McAlister--who wasn't simply benched last season, but went on IR because he [i]couldn't[/i] play--is there a single example of Harbaugh not playing someone for moral reasons? Ever?

-Harrison

[ray-ray is a beast-beast]

[quote name='Demchick' date='06 December 2009 - 12:36 PM' timestamp='1260117385' post='302715']
This comes up a lot. My question is, with the exception of McAlister--who wasn't simply benched last season, but went on IR because he [i]couldn't[/i] play--is there a single example of Harbaugh not playing someone for moral reasons? Ever?

-Harrison
[/quote]

Well, I feel like McGahee's problems with Harbaugh extended beyond work ethic -- they were behaviorial. Same with McAlister, who was benched during last year's playoffs because he was wearing sweats when he was supposed to be wearing a suit -- not because of injury.

More germane to the Suggs discussion was Harbaugh's response when questioned about bringing notorious "woman-beater" Brandon Marshall to the Ravens, to which he responded: "character matters."

Related or not, Brandon Marshall is still in Denver.

[Marc2k6]

I'm not going to say he did or did not do anything but where there is smoke there is fire. How big is the fire going to be and who is the starter of the fire?

[Tank 92]

[quote name='ray-ray is a beast-beast' date='05 December 2009 - 10:01 PM' timestamp='1260068470' post='302583']
Huh?

Since when has Harbaugh needed a court ruling to stick someone in his doghouse? It seems any perceived violation of his one-size-fits-all moral code -- no matter how unrelated to the football field -- is more than enough cause for Harbaugh to condemn their character and isolate them, even at the possible expense of his football team.

He's said it himself: "character matters," and i'm sure Suggs so-called "character" has taken a hit in his eyes.
[/quote]

It is not just Harbaugh that wants stand up guys. This is an edict from the owner and is directed throughout the organization including, of course, the head coach. I don't think it means that because a player gets into some legal trouble he is immediately gone or put in the "doghouse". It has more to do with overall character and how the player deals with adversity (character) and success (humility).

Let's be real. They are very few "squeaky clean" players in professional sports. Young guys given a huge pot of money are going to make some bad decisions. The question is do they learn from their mistakes and move forward.

I think it is a great thing that personal attributes are being considered in the selection of Ravens players. When in battle, you want to know that the guy next to you has your back and you can depend on him whatever the situation.
It is called building a [b]TEAM[/b].

[LilyRaven]

Let's not forget he's innocent until proven guilty by a court of law (not a media outlet). Like football players never get accused of ridiculous things for either publicity or cash. Until that gavel drops, we simply do not know.

[PSU RAVEN]

[quote name='Demchick' date='06 December 2009 - 11:36 AM' timestamp='1260117385' post='302715']
This comes up a lot. My question is, with the exception of McAlister--who wasn't simply benched last season, but went on IR because he [i]couldn't[/i] play--is there a single example of Harbaugh not playing someone for moral reasons? Ever?

-Harrison
[/quote]
I have always found this character issue amusing. Coaches and teams make reference to it when their players are not the ones in trouble. Let's face it all the teams pick from the same pool of people. Unless the player has been in trouble before [b]you have no idea [/b]how this guy is going to deal with being a multi-millionaire.

It is largely luck of the draw as to whether your "character" guys end up on the evening news or not.

I assume most people thought Tiger was a character guy until last week.

[Demchick]

[quote name='ray-ray is a beast-beast' date='06 December 2009 - 11:54 AM' timestamp='1260118456' post='302723']
Well, I feel like McGahee's problems with Harbaugh extended beyond work ethic -- they were behaviorial.[/quote]

I don't know about that. McGahee lost playing time last season to McClain, and this year to Rice. McClain played wonderfully last year, and this year, Rice is one of the best players in the NFL.

Is that a coach having a personal issue with a player, or is that putting your best players on the field? I think McGahee is an excellent running back, but he couldn't do what Rice has done this year.

[quote]Same with McAlister, who was benched during last year's playoffs because he was wearing sweats when he was supposed to be wearing a suit -- not because of injury.[/quote]

Last year's playoffs? He was on IR. He wasn't eligible to play. And I'm not saying there wasn't an issue between Harbaugh and McAlister, but letting McAlister go after last season freed up a huge amount of cap space, without which we may have been unable to do all sorts of things--such as, pertinent to this discussion, keeping Suggs.

So what I'm saying is, character may be an issue at times, but I just don't see the argument that character has been a [i]primary[/i] issue resulting in poor decisions.

-Harrison

[ray-ray is a beast-beast]

[quote name='jt3751' date='06 December 2009 - 01:29 PM' timestamp='1260120546' post='302744']
I think it is a great thing that personal attributes are being considered in the selection of Ravens players. When in battle, you want to know that the guy next to you has your back and you can depend on him whatever the situation.
It is called building a [b]TEAM[/b].
[/quote]

Sorry, but "going into battle" and "guys having your back" are meaningless cliches/coaching rhetoric that have no real relevance to the game of football and the degree to which players can perform. And, honestly, we don't need to depend on professional football players "whatever the situation," we need to depend on them while on the field, and the guys that perform best on the aren't always necessarily the guys that behave like saints in their free time.

Also, it's not called building a TEAM it's called building a FOOTBALL TEAM -- meaning you's want to get the best, y'know, FOOTBALL players.

Somebody might want to let the Ravens front office know that Nelson Mandela is free to play, cuz he might not be too great of a football player, but as we all know, he is one heck of a guy.

[Natural Born Hitters]

[quote name='ray-ray is a beast-beast' date='06 December 2009 - 04:58 PM' timestamp='1260136732' post='302985']
Sorry, but "going into battle" and "guys having your back" are meaningless cliches/coaching rhetoric that have no real relevance to the game of football and the degree to which players can perform. And, honestly, we don't need to depend on professional football players "whatever the situation," we need to depend on them while on the field, and the guys that perform best on the aren't always necessarily the guys that behave like saints in their free time.

Also, it's not called building a TEAM it's called building a FOOTBALL TEAM -- meaning you's want to get the best, y'know, FOOTBALL players.

Somebody might want to let the Ravens front office know that Nelson Mandela is free to play, [b]cuz he might not be too great of a football player, but as we all know, he is one heck of a guy.[/b]
[/quote]

Very true, Not trying to be hard on Coach Harbs(cause I like what he's done for the most part), but this isn't High School Football. No one is perfect after all. I'm not sure if Coach Harbs has a daughter, but could you all imagine if he did, I'd hate to be the guy taking her to the prom...

[Bltravens]

[quote name='Ravensfan410' date='06 December 2009 - 10:04 PM' timestamp='1260158698' post='303266']
Very true, Not trying to be hard on Coach Harbs(cause I like what he's done for the most part), but this isn't High School Football. No one is perfect after all. I'm not sure if Coach Harbs has a daughter, but could you all imagine if he did, I'd hate to be the guy taking her to the prom...
[/quote]
bahaha, so true

[FerrariFan87]

I'm not going to pass any judgments until all the facts are in, but this seems like nothing and will probably be swept under the rug in a couple weeks. All I know is that we need him back by the Pittsburgh game.

[theFRANCHISE]

More details of the allegations emerge: [url="http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/bal-suggs-complaint1207,0,5332843.story"]The Baltimore Sun[/url]

See, I would've been more sympathetic to the alleged victim had I not read that she wanted Suggs to pay "emergency family maintenance costs" and use of his 2008 H2 Hummer with 30-inch chrome rims and embroidered seats.

I don't claim to know a whole lot about these matters, but those last two details made me pause. I won't claim to know what "emergency family maintenance costs" are especially since I don't know the dollar amount requested, but outside of groceries and medical (i.e. immediate necessities), I don't see what would constitute those costs. And of all the cars she was given permission to use, she chooses the luxury SUV? I know that could be construed as her taking away one of his prized possessions as payback, but I don't see the utility in taking a pimped-out Hummer.

This whole thing stinks, but I won't pass judgment.

[ravensfan160]

Details are starting to come out and its not pretty.

[url="http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/bal-suggs-complaint1207,0,5332843.story"]Latest Suggs News[/url]