Dannell Ellerbe

[Ravens_Fan13]

Hey Flock just wanted to get some input on Dannell Ellerbe i see shades of a pass rushing machine i see a bright futre from this kid and it feels real good to have developing talent that i think can help out this team leaps and bounds down the stretch towards the playoffs.

[BleedPurple92]

He's played very well this season.

I hope he gets more playing time than Gooden.

[McBoller]

Where'd he come from anyway? Did we draft him?

[Ed_Reed_Pick_Six]

Linebacking debate rages!

Kruger fans lobbying for significant playing time, those wondering where Antwan Barnes is, and here we go on Ellerbe. I've even read suggestions to bring back Evan Oglesby.

As with all these players, only Harbaugh is likely to know. For whatever reason, several of these players have been under-utilised - resulting in fans understandably question why due to the struggles of the pass rush at times.

[Ravensfan23]

Ellerbe has played really well all season. He has improved every game it seems. He was a bit hesitant in the NE game(for good reason), but he seems to have gotten more comfortable within the defense. He plays with so much intensity, it's kinda early to say this, but i think he is the type of LB you could build a defense around. Especially a 4-3 defense where he can just roam the field(like a young Ray).

I don't know how Ozzie and his team does it, but Ellerbe is another pretty good UDFA pick up. Depending on who leaves, and who is picked up in FA or Drafted, the Ravens could have 2 UDFA LBs having a huge impact on this defense next year. Both McClain and Ellerbe are really talented young guys and they will only get better.

Maybe drop JJ down to a full time DE opposite Suggs, and have Ellerbe and McClain line up on each side of Ray. Let Gooden be that hybrid type, Safety/LB in Dime packages that roams the field to take advantage of his size and speed. People are down on us this year, but this Ravens Defense still has a lot of young talent.

[Ed_Reed_Pick_Six]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' date='05 December 2009 - 06:07 PM' timestamp='1259993251' post='302266']
Ellerbe has played really well all season. He has improved every game it seems. He was a bit hesitant in the NE game(for good reason), but he seems to have gotten more comfortable within the defense. He plays with so much intensity, it's kinda early to say this, but i think he is the type of LB you could build a defense around. Especially a 4-3 defense where he can just roam the field(like a young Ray).

I don't know how Ozzie and his team does it, but Ellerbe is another pretty good UDFA pick up. Depending on who leaves, and who is picked up in FA or Drafted, the Ravens could have 2 UDFA LBs having a huge impact on this defense next year. Both McClain and Ellerbe are really talented young guys and they will only get better.

Maybe drop JJ down to a full time DE opposite Suggs, and have Ellerbe and McClain line up on each side of Ray. Let Gooden be that hybrid type, Safety/LB in Dime packages that roams the field to take advantage of his size and speed. People are down on us this year, but this Ravens Defense still has a lot of young talent.
[/quote]
With so many talented linebackers, and a 4-3 that generated very mixed results, why play the scheme much? I think the vast majority of players and fans prefer the 3-4 defense.

[Bltravens]

I liked the idea of JJ opposite Suggs in a 4-3 scheme as DE's. JJ is the Kampman comparison some people have been looking for in Kruger. Ngata and Pryce on the inside at NT and DT and thats one of the nastiest Dlines in football. 3 guys can rush the pass effectively, all 4 can stop the run on their own pretty much and Ngata and Pryce can free up Ray in the middle to do as he pleases. I think the only reason we didnt do that this year is because both our OLB in the 4-3 would be completely green rookies in McClain and Gooden. If Mattison wants to go
4-3 permanently I think thats the way to go.

[Ed_Reed_Pick_Six]

[quote name='Bltravens' date='05 December 2009 - 06:27 PM' timestamp='1259994471' post='302272']
I liked the idea of JJ opposite Suggs in a 4-3 scheme as DE's. JJ is the Kampman comparison some people have been looking for in Kruger. Ngata and Pryce on the inside at NT and DT and thats one of the nastiest Dlines in football. 3 guys can rush the pass effectively, all 4 can stop the run on their own pretty much and Ngata and Pryce can free up Ray in the middle to do as he pleases. I think the only reason we didnt do that this year is because both our OLB in the 4-3 would be completely green rookies in McClain and Gooden. If Mattison wants to go
[b]4-3 permanently I think thats the way to go.[/b]
[/quote]
I respectfully disagree entirely. Use the talents of our defense in a scheme where we can create more surprise - it generates those big plays.

[sporaven]

I like Ellerbe, but I'm also excited to see Jason Phillips in the future. He would have been a day one pick if he didn't ****** up his knee at the combine. Maybe not next year since he will be essentially a rookie, but by the time Ray is gone I think he will be competing to start.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='Ed_Reed_Pick_Six' date='05 December 2009 - 01:14 AM' timestamp='1259993648' post='302269']
With so many talented linebackers, and a 4-3 that generated very mixed results, why play the scheme much? I think the vast majority of players and fans prefer the 3-4 defense.
[/quote]

Well one of the main reasons for the mixed results of the 4-3 is because it our first season back in that defense. Yes most of the players we have fit a 3-4 defense because that is how we have drafted over the last 8 years. So yes we do have a lot of 3-4 personnel. However some of those talented guys are 4-3 guys that we converted into 3-4 players. Just look at JJ, a DT in college turned into a 3-4 OLB, now back into a 4-3 type defense, he's having a career year. So even though we have a lot of talent 3-4 type players, they are interchangeable imo.

Also, many of the players and fans still prefer the 3-4 because it's a defense that was so successful for us and the players are still comfortable with it. It's like when we first switched from the 4-3 to the 3-4, Mike Nolan still implemented the 4-3 because that is what the players were most comfortable with. However he was a 3-4 based DC. Even with the success we had with the 3-4, Ray Lewis still demanded the Ravens get him some big bodied guys up front, because that is what made him most comfortable.

Coach Mattison is a 4-3 based coach, and though many people won't like it, he will remain our DC imo. So now with Mattison as our DC, the Ravens will start to draft defensive players that fit a 4-3 scheme, over guys that would fit well in a 3-4.

I think over the last 4-5 weeks the Ravens have become more comfortable as a Defense, playing a 4-3 zone type style, with some 3-4 mixed in.

I think next year u will see the Ravens go to the 4-3 full time, and it will probably be a great moves, with 80% of the NFL being copycats and now switching over to a 3-4.

I think the 3 young LBs we have now would all be better suited for a 4-3 actually. I think Ellerbe would do well as a MLB, having Ngata and McKinney in front of him. Allow him to roam sideline to sideline and be that thumper he is. Gooden would do much better on the outside, where the Ravens could take full advantage of his speed. He would do well, covering TEs and backs, and chasing down plays from the backside. McClain would be that blitzing type LB from the outside. Take advantage of his pass rushing skills.

It's just my opinion but i think it would be foolish to have Mattison as our DC and then force him to run a scheme he is not familiar with. It'll be like bringing in Fassel and forcing him to run Billick's plays. It didn't work out well. What Rex did for us was great, and the players are still comfortable with that style of play. However, Mattison is a DC that runs a 4-3 and although unproven in the NFL, he was a great one in College. I think the Ravens will fully commit to the 4-3 defense next season and get back to being a pressure heavy turnover forcing type Defense again.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='Ed_Reed_Pick_Six' date='05 December 2009 - 01:49 AM' timestamp='1259995746' post='302277']
I respectfully disagree entirely. Use the talents of our defense in a scheme where we can create more surprise - it generates those big plays.
[/quote]

I have to respectfully disagree with you here ERPS. Styles and scheme's don't generate big plays. Players do and great coaches just find a way to put them into position to do so. Yes playing in a 3-4 defense allows you to mix things up a bit more, or maybe create some confusion, but the same can be said for a 4-3 defense.

It doesn't matter who you are, the players make the system. Every team in the NFL can switch to a 3-4 defense, but won't many be able to generate the success that the Steelers will. Why, not because their scheme is better, but because their individual players are better then most teams and Coach LaBeau does a great job of putting those guys in position.

Just look at the Giants, back in 2007 when they won the SuperBowl. I would put their 4-3 defense that year up against any 3-4 defense and i would be willing to bet that they generated just as many sacks and turnovers.

The biggest misconception of a 3-4 defense is that it's a pressure packed defense. That is not true, the heavy pressure only comes when u have players that can provide it. Just look at the Browns, they played a 3-4 defense for years, but never really had good players, so they never really had success with it.

It's the players that will ultimately have the final say as to whether your defense is the type that generates big plays or not. Guys like Ray Lewis, Ed Reed, Haloti Ngata, Terrell Suggs, and even Kelly Gregg, will adapt to just about any defensive scheme because they are just great talented players. So no matter the scheme or system, once those type players get comfortable with it, they tend to shine.

People say all the time how we have 3-4 type guys on this team, but when u think about it, we just have defensive guys on this team. Most of the young guys on this team were trying to make the transition into a 3-4 player when Rex was here. Jameel McClain was a DE at Syracuse, Ngata played in a 4-3 defense at Oregon, Landry played safety in a 4-3 zone type defense at GT. Even guys like Suggs and JJ were playing in new positions at one point for us. So we have guys that as i mentioned before, are just players.

Imo the Ravens could generate just as much if not more pressure and big plays from a 4-3 defense as they did in a 3-4. The 3-4 defense is just a flashier defense as opposed to the 4-3. In a 4-3 you dominate on defense because u are just flat out better then the guy in front of you. In a 3-4 you can move around more and try to win with trickery. It's like the difference between the Ravens and the Dolphins last year. The Ravens would line up with 6 offensive lineman, a 255 pound fullback, and a 260 pound RB and dare you to stop our running game. While the Dolphins would line up in a Wildcat and u didn't know who was getting the ball.

The Ravens won most of the battles at the line of scrimmage because of talent and just being able to dominate opponents when we needed it most. While the Dolphins tried to win with trickery, in the end the talent won out and it always will. The Ravens have guys that are good enough to dominate with just their talent, so the trickery of a 3-4 defense looks great, but it's not necessarily needed.

From a mentality stand point. I think the 4-3 fits the Ravens team better. Like i said before, the 3-4 is a flashy defense, but the 4-3 is just simple, but when used right is dominate. Coach Harbaugh is not a flashy type, and i beleive the players adapt the mentality of it's head coach. Coach Mattison isn't a flashy type DC, like Rex was. He's just a hard nose, work hard and success will follow type coach.

It's like the difference between two WRs. You have a guy like Brandon Marshall, who is a flashy type WR. So he will get all the interviews and press time. He will have his highlights shown because he makes himself seen. Then on the other side u have a guy like Andre Johnson who just goes about his business. He doesn't even want to be considered as the best WR in the NFL, even though most people would disagree with him. You don't see him doing many interviews or having his own segment on a national show and u don't hear his name for too much more then the plays he makes. Now both of these WRs gets the job done for their teams, its just that they have different styles. When Marshall dominates a game, you will know it because of his actions, but when Johnson dominates a game you will only know it once you look at the final numbers. He's just a simple player.

That is how the 3-4 vs the 4-3 breaks down to me. Whenever the defense sacks the QB in a 3-4, you can mostly track it back to someone missing an assignment or some type of mix up on offense, however when u have a sack in a 4-3, you see more of an individual effort from the defensive lineman. 4-3 defensives are basic with a little bit of flare here and there. I beat you because i was better then you. 3-4 defense have the flash and excitement that everyone loves. They both have the potential of getting the job done, just in different fashions.

sidenote. I'm battling a nasty cold right now so i'm heavily medicated, so if this post doesn't make much sense blame it on the medicine.

[Ravens_Fan13]

[quote name='McBoller' date='05 December 2009 - 02:00 AM' timestamp='1259992836' post='302261']
Where'd he come from anyway? Did we draft him?
[/quote]

yea we drafted him he was a maxwell award finalist from georgia University

[Bltravens]

[quote name='Ed_Reed_Pick_Six' date='05 December 2009 - 12:49 AM' timestamp='1259995746' post='302277']
I respectfully disagree entirely. Use the talents of our defense in a scheme where we can create more surprise - it generates those big plays.
[/quote]
Well I said IF Mattison wants to go 4-3. Im a 3-4 guy as well because it seems like you have 1 extra better athlete on the field, the defense can cover more space, and the coverages can differ alot more than a 4-3 can. That was just my scenario for if Mattison wants to go 4-3, stack the Dline and let it dictate games.

Edit- And Ravensfan23 is right, players make big plays, based on pressure and understanding the scheme and playcall and executing it. Best defenses of all time have been 4-3s, TB ran the same damn defense for 8 years and was constantly in the top 5 lol. Our guys need to learn how to win 1 on 1 battles, you cant always come clean on a blitz.

Oh and Ellerbe was an UDF out of Georgia that we picked up after the draft. He would have been a mid round pick but had a knee injury his junior year and it affected his senior year. That and I believe he had some character issues.

[BleedPurple92]

[quote name='McBoller' date='05 December 2009 - 01:00 AM' timestamp='1259992836' post='302261']
Where'd he come from anyway? Did we draft him?
[/quote]


No, he was an UDFA.

We didn't draft him. He was a stud at Georgia, and projected as a 2nd or 3rd round pick, until he got hurt.

[bce086]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' date='05 December 2009 - 09:31 AM' timestamp='1260023508' post='302322']

From a mentality stand point. I think the 4-3 fits the Ravens team better. Like i said before, the 3-4 is a flashy defense, but the 4-3 is just simple, but when used right is dominate. Coach Harbaugh is not a flashy type, and i beleive the players adapt the mentality of it's head coach. Coach Mattison isn't a flashy type DC, like Rex was. He's just a hard nose, work hard and success will follow type coach.

[/quote]

First of all, this post and your other post preceding it are both excellent, and agree with a lot of the points you bring up.

However, I must stress that the 4-3 is much more successful in college, due to the fact that those superstar players dominate the others. This is much harder to do in the NFL, where every player is a beast.

IMO, we need to mix up the 3-4 and 4-3. The 3-4 allows us to get much more pressure with our LBers and keeps offenses guessing. Whereas the 4-3 allows us to fare better in the passing game, and doesn't "make them guess" as much, but rather challenges them to throw the ball and rely's on our players making a better play than theirs.

[JoeFlax]

he has a nose for the ball carrier, i really like his tackling. I think he can be the tough inside backer like Ray -of course not as good as Ray- but solid. I'm so glad we picked this guy up

[JoeFlax]

[quote name='sporaven' date='05 December 2009 - 05:07 AM' timestamp='1260007625' post='302295']
I like Ellerbe, but I'm also excited to see Jason Phillips in the future. He would have been a day one pick if he didn't ****** up his knee at the combine. Maybe not next year since he will be essentially a rookie, but by the time Ray is gone I think he will be competing to start.
[/quote]
yeah I haven't even heard of that guy all season, he will be cleared up to play next season right?

[Dubs]

Great input RavensFan..i agree fully..You can succeed in either scheme its just in different fashions. I think we could be a very dominant 43 defense in the mold of the Eagles.