Where Have All The Flags Gone?

[Tank 92]

Happily, at no time during Sunday's game did I feel compelled to jump out of my seat, go over the rail and plow the head linesman. ( Well maybe once, after the unsuccessful last challenge) For the most part, the zebras kept the flags in their pockets.

Does anyone think that in a week we became "the angels of the grid iron" ? I feel (and hope!) the league has finally given instructions to the officials to "lay off a little". Or, was it just the crew we had Sunday?

Thoughts?

[TSizzle00]

[quote name='jt3751' date='24 November 2009 - 07:23 PM' timestamp='1259108607' post='292878']
Happily, at no time during Sunday's game did I feel compelled to jump out of my seat, go over the rail and plow the head linesman. ( Well maybe once, after the unsuccessful last challenge) For the most part, the zebras kept the flags in their pockets.

Does anyone think that in a week we became "the angels of the grid iron" ? I feel (and hope!) the league has finally given instructions to the officials to "lay off a little". Or, was it just the crew we had Sunday?

Thoughts?
[/quote]
I dont know Im just glad no PI calls in 2 straight games. Just keep it up and the defense can hold the score down!

[funky141]

Just shows you the officials are not out to get the Ravens

[Tank 92]

[quote name='funky141' date='24 November 2009 - 07:34 PM' timestamp='1259109287' post='292895']
Just shows you the officials are not out to get the Ravens
[/quote]

It will take more than 1 "clean" game to validate that assumption. Too much verifiable, controversial history.........

[rlh445]

[quote name='jt3751' date='24 November 2009 - 07:39 PM' timestamp='1259109593' post='292905']
It will take more than 1 "clean" game to validate that assumption. Too much verifiable, controversial history.........
[/quote]

Oh bah. The Ravens have been notoriously flagged for many, many seasons..and almost always in games we as fans really want them to win. It's so EASY to blame the refs that it seems a shame not to do it. But in reality, the refs just helped the Ravens along in looking sorry as Hell. False starts, offsides penalties, late hits, etc..those aren't usually calls that can't easily be seen on the replays, they usually happened and it just hurts as a fan to admit it. Our guys have obviously gotten more disciplined..that's why the flags have been coming less as of late.

[PSU RAVEN]

[quote name='jt3751' date='24 November 2009 - 07:39 PM' timestamp='1259109593' post='292905']
It will take more than 1 "clean" game to validate that assumption. Too much verifiable, controversial history.........
[/quote]

I agree, 3 games of lopsided holding calls is not wiped in one game.

[dethdude420]

I think it has more to do with the officiating crew.
I thought if you threw a punch you were supposed to be ejected from the game, but why is it last week when James Harrison (maybe it was two weeks ago now) punched that guy he only got penalized. If they recognize the penalty then why not go with the Ejection. I'm just saying, Different crews call the game differently

[Tank 92]

[quote name='rlh445' date='24 November 2009 - 07:47 PM' timestamp='1259110020' post='292921']
Oh bah. The Ravens have been notoriously flagged for many, many seasons..and almost always in games we as fans really want them to win. It's so EASY to blame the refs that it seems a shame not to do it. But in reality, the refs just helped the Ravens along in looking sorry as Hell. False starts, offsides penalties, late hits, etc..those aren't usually calls that can't easily be seen on the replays, they usually happened and it just hurts as a fan to admit it. Our guys have obviously gotten more disciplined..that's why the flags have been coming less as of late.
[/quote]




That's an opinion; Not one I share, but an opinion (Oh bah bah black sheep?)

It seems what you are saying is that in 6 days we suddenly became "angels" not deserving penalties.

No one said anything abut placing the blame on penalties for losing, poor execution or poor play, but thanks for the lecture.

[PuRock]

Oddly enough. Karma's a ****.

In a game where we could've used a flag on our OL offsides we threw for an interception instead. Which ultimately dropped our % of winning the game immensely.

But it was nice to see the flags put away for this game. Who was reffing the game? I'll have to remember to get happy next time I hear him doing a game.

[Alexir]

The Haloti Ngata penalty could have went both ways. Ive seen guys do this a million times and not get flagged but Halot draws the penalty.

[edreedfromtheu]

[quote name='funky141' date='24 November 2009 - 07:34 PM' timestamp='1259109287' post='292895']
Just shows you the officials are not out to get the Ravens
[/quote]

Are you ******* kidding me? Joe Flacco got ROCKED in the head. No flag. Nothing at all. And from what I've been able to find out... there's been no fine handed out either. Meanwhile, Ravens end up losing a game to the Patriots because Tom Brady jumped out of the way of Terrell Suggs. And when his helmet barely got touched.

But, Joe Flacco get a Manny Pacqiuao-style hook right into the helmet. Wasn't a glancing blow, it was a direct hit.

And no, I didn't need replay to see this. I was immediately calling for a flag during the live play. And yeah, Ravens ended up catching the ball on the play, but they should have had another 15 yards on top of it.

The NFL sets up everything. The Vikings beat the Steelers, but they call some phantom tripping call. The Dolphins beat the Saints, but they come up with some BS to call. The Ravens beat the Bengals this year in their first meeting, but then the ridiculous personal foul called on Ray Lewis. And please, don't even make me go back to previous years. Take your horseshoe logo and go find an Indianapolis message board.

[rlh445]

[quote name='jt3751' date='24 November 2009 - 10:00 PM' timestamp='1259118013' post='293106']
That's an opinion; Not one I share, but an opinion (Oh bah bah black sheep?)
[b]
It seems what you are saying is that in 6 days we suddenly became "angels" not deserving penalties. [/b]

No one said anything abut placing the blame on penalties for losing, poor execution or poor play, but thanks for the lecture.
[/quote]

Wow..that's not what I said at all. What I did say was that after atrociously committing mental error after mental error, the Ravens have seemed to finally get their mental state a bit more under control, and thus have committed less penalties. How does that seem like magic to you? And, you're welcome for the lecture..maybe you needed it more then you think.

Which scenario seems more realistic - the theory that the refs are 'out to get us' and then suddenly decide that they aren't for the past two weeks? Or, the theory that the Ravens were reamed well and good by Harbaugh and ashamed of their own mistakes, tried harder not to commit the mental errors that had cost them for much of this season and seasons past? Go ahead, take your time..I'll wait. Thanks for the reply !

[Ed_Reed_Pick_Six]

I hope this thread hasn't jinxed us.

[Tank 92]

[quote name='rlh445' date='25 November 2009 - 07:40 PM' timestamp='1259196011' post='293775']
Wow..that's not what I said at all. What I did say was that after atrociously committing mental error after mental error, the Ravens have seemed to finally get their mental state a bit more under control, and thus have committed less penalties. How does that seem like magic to you? And, you're welcome for the lecture..maybe you needed it more then you think.

Which scenario seems more realistic - the theory that the refs are 'out to get us' and then suddenly decide that they aren't for the past two weeks? Or, the theory that the Ravens were reamed well and good by Harbaugh and ashamed of their own mistakes, tried harder not to commit the mental errors that had cost them for much of this season and seasons past? Go ahead, take your time..I'll wait. Thanks for the reply !
[/quote]






The comedy of mental errors during the first half of the Browns game was embarrassing. I totally agree that the illegal procedure, offsides, play clock, etc. are mental errors and have been fixed by a renewed focus and b*** reaming.

The flags that were conspicuously missing in the Colts game were the holding calls to stymie drives or cancel good plays (let's face it, holding occurs on every play, just a matter of whether it is called), ticky tacky pass interference calls to keep the opponents drives alive and other questionable calls that have nothing to do with mental focus or discipline.


I do not subscribe to the "refs are out to get us" theory or any other organized effort by the league to keep the Ravens from winning. What I do believe is that our reputation as the "bad boys" of the league has caused a lot of officiating crews to be much more "diligent" (read nit picky) in calling certain penalties against the Ravens, especially in critical situations. Believing that many of the flags this year have been more than questionable is not just a personal observation, but one pointed out by various other uninterested parties such as game commentators and analysts.

I think it is more than plausible that the ubiquitous complaints from the Ravens front office were finally heard and some sort of action was taken. Just a theory. A theory that I hope is correct and keeps the zebra crap off of the field from this point on......


So thanks again for your "insight" and Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours!

[smashmouth]

It's not the fact that any of the "ref's are out to get the Ravens". But there out to help the Big market teams. Ravens do not fall under the big market teams.

I find in VERY funny that the Head of officiating or crew's wouldent own up to making any mistakes they have made all year long. and all of a sudden they make a mistake to help the Ravens and now its "we made a mistake".

[MagicianCamille]

Ngata call was bogus, sorry.

[coolcat]

I have a feeling that there will be a lot of [i][/i]"personal fouls" called on both sides Sunday night.

[IMG]http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg195/timcat4843/Ravens_vs_Steelers_2008_MNF.jpg[/IMG]

[Tank 92]

[quote name='MagicianCamille' date='26 November 2009 - 05:54 PM' timestamp='1259276053' post='294134']
Ngata call was bogus, sorry.
[/quote]



I agree. 8 times out of 10 that is not called.

We only had 2, right? The other a 5 yarder. Pretty amazing change for the most penalized team in football.

[Child Of Humanity]

This sir is an absolute fact. The management of Pittsburgh and New England pretty much run the NFL. Refs are very hesitant to call a penalty on either of those teams. Hell the Patriots head coach can blatantly violate the league rules regarding recording devices on the field and they get barely more than a slap on the wrist. And all the evidence is destroyed by the commissioner. There was not even an attempt to hide that little cover up. When you play the Steelers or the Patriots you just have to be good enough to beat the team and the zebras. And Ocho gets fines $20K for making a joke about bribing an official with a whole dollar. The NFL main office is simply a joke and a puppet for those two franchises. The commish will do what every they tell him to do.

[quote name='smashmouth' date='26 November 2009 - 12:34 PM' timestamp='1259256843' post='294032']
It's not the fact that any of the "ref's are out to get the Ravens". But there out to help the Big market teams. Ravens do not fall under the big market teams.

I find in VERY funny that the Head of officiating or crew's wouldent own up to making any mistakes they have made all year long. and all of a sudden they make a mistake to help the Ravens and now its "we made a mistake".
[/quote]

[#52BABY]

[quote name='coolcat' date='27 November 2009 - 07:18 AM' timestamp='1259277482' post='294137']
I have a feeling that there will be a lot of [i][/i]"personal fouls" called on both sides Sunday night.

[IMG]http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg195/timcat4843/Ravens_vs_Steelers_2008_MNF.jpg[/IMG]
[/quote]

can i throw a flag for such a massive pic taking up soo much space on someones posts?

[rlh445]

[quote name='jt3751' date='26 November 2009 - 11:31 AM' timestamp='1259253102' post='294018']

I do not subscribe to the "refs are out to get us" theory

Does anyone think that in a week we became "the angels of the grid iron" ? I feel (and hope!) the league has finally given instructions to the officials to "lay off a little". Or, was it just the crew we had Sunday?[/quote]

Those two statements posted by you at different times would seem to negate you saying that you don't subscribe to the referee bias theory. If you don't subscribe, why would the league need to give instructions to the officials to lay off of the Ravens? That just doesn't make sense. The only questionable call I've seen this season was the Suggs 'hit' on Brady, and even then it could've gone either way. The Ravens are no more seen as 'bad boys' then any other team in the league.

I know, everyone wants to harken back to Suggs and Mike Carey, but that was one incident. The Ravens have always talked trash, and so have the Steelers, and so have every other NFL team. That's the way it is in sports, from elementary to high school to college to pros. The mere fact that you suggested that the league talked to officials and told them to lay off the Ravens as far as flags go shows(ed) me that you bought into the conspiracy theory that the refs were out to get the Ravens. What in those two quoted statements would lead me otherwise?


I had a good Thanksgiving, hope you did too.

[Tank 92]

[quote name='rlh445' date='27 November 2009 - 06:30 AM' timestamp='1259321427' post='294297']
Those two statements posted by you at different times would seem to negate you saying that you don't subscribe to the referee bias theory. If you don't subscribe, why would the league need to give instructions to the officials to lay off of the Ravens? That just doesn't make sense. The only questionable call I've seen this season was the Suggs 'hit' on Brady, and even then it could've gone either way. The Ravens are no more seen as 'bad boys' then any other team in the league.

I know, everyone wants to harken back to Suggs and Mike Carey, but that was one incident. The Ravens have always talked trash, and so have the Steelers, and so have every other NFL team. That's the way it is in sports, from elementary to high school to college to pros. The mere fact that you suggested that the league talked to officials and told them to lay off the Ravens as far as flags go shows(ed) me that you bought into the conspiracy theory that the refs were out to get the Ravens. What in those two quoted statements would lead me otherwise?


I had a good Thanksgiving, hope you did too.
[/quote]

Are you a politician? If not maybe you should be one. Taking quotes out of context and pasting them together is a talent generally reserved for those folks who like to rationalize misleading viewpoints to their advantage.

I repeat, I do not subscribe to the theory of an organized league effort to defeat the Ravens. What I do believe is that many of the officiating crews have a tilted view of the Ravens' players actions because of the "bad boy" image.

When there are obviously questionable calls, the front offices of NFL teams forward film and communication to the league asking for a "clarification" of the event. It just so happens that the Ravens have had a lot of occasions to send these requests to league officials this year. That was what was meant by "ubiquitous complaints".

If the Suggs phantom hit is the only questionable call you have seen in Ravens games this year It makes wonder if you have been watching the games at all. Many different instances have been well documented that I will not outline here because it has been beat to death on these boards and this topic was not meant to belabor that point.

[BloodRaven]

Theyre obviously trying to stay fresh for this upcoming game.

[rlh445]

[quote name='jt3751' date='27 November 2009 - 08:22 AM' timestamp='1259328142' post='294314']
[b]Are you a politician?[/b] If not maybe you should be one. Taking quotes out of context and pasting them together is a talent generally reserved for those folks who like to rationalize misleading viewpoints to their advantage.

I repeat, I do not subscribe to the theory of an organized league effort to defeat the Ravens. What I do believe is that many of the officiating crews have a tilted view of the Ravens' players actions because of the "bad boy" image.

When there are obviously questionable calls, the front offices of NFL teams forward film and communication to the league asking for a "clarification" of the event. It just so happens that the Ravens have had a lot of occasions to send these requests to league officials this year. That was what was meant by "ubiquitous complaints".

If the Suggs phantom hit is the only questionable call you have seen in Ravens games this year It makes wonder if you have been watching the games at all. Many different instances have been well documented that I will not outline here because it has been beat to death on these boards and this topic was not meant to belabor that point.
[/quote]

I'm not a politician, although once at a strip club a gentleman from the Maryland Republicans Alliance gave me his card and asked me if I'd be interested in joining.

[b]"I repeat, I do not subscribe to the theory of an organized league effort to defeat the Ravens. What I do believe is that many of the officiating crews have a tilted view of the Ravens' players actions because of the "bad boy" image."[/b]

This statement is in full, and not 'taken out of context'. I think you're getting it twisted. I never accused you of thinking that the entire league was out to get the Ravens, as my focus was on the original post focusing on referee bias, as the above statement by you alludes to you believing there could be some, and then later stating that you didn't believe that.

Maybe I am misreading what you were trying to say, but again if you aren't a believer in league 'collusion' then why would the NFL ever say anything to officiating crews about going easy on one NFL team or another? Do you see what I'm saying? It can't be both ways; if the league is stepping in and telling refs to lay off the Ravens, then the league has to know that they are biased, and since in your original post you asked if the league had 'finally' stepped in, then obviously you DO subscribe to the theory that the NFL is (was?) holding the Ravens down. It can't be both ways.

I'm sorry, but you would have to be more specific as to what calls the majority thought were questionable, because in a lot of the threads you speak of, cooler heads did often state that although they were calls that we didn't like to see, they could have gone either way or were the right calls. I've watched every game this year, and all I have seen is the Ravens shooting themselves in the foot and letting stupid calls stop us from winning games....and as you have admitted, alot of them were mental mistakes. *shrug* I don't know what else to say, but it sure has been fun debating, .

Edit - Oh, I almost forgot.

"I do not subscribe to the "refs are out to get us" theory"

"I repeat, I do not subscribe to the [b]theory of an organized league effort[/b] to defeat the Ravens."

You actually didn't repeat anything, because you made two different statements. One regards ref bias, one regards league bias. This topic, as well as all of my posts are regarding theories about ref bias. Caught ya!

[Child Of Humanity]

I don't really believe the refs are out to get anyone but I know a lot of team's fans feel that way. And as bad as some of the calls have been this year I can see how they would believe that. But the fact is refs make mistakes just like players do. And the teams playing have to be prepared for that and just play better so those mistakes don't effect the outcome of the game. Just my opinion.

[quote name='rlh445' date='27 November 2009 - 10:51 PM' timestamp='1259380295' post='294756']
I'm not a politician, although once at a strip club a gentleman from the Maryland Republicans Alliance gave me his card and asked me if I'd be interested in joining.

[b]"I repeat, I do not subscribe to the theory of an organized league effort to defeat the Ravens. What I do believe is that many of the officiating crews have a tilted view of the Ravens' players actions because of the "bad boy" image."[/b]

This statement is in full, and not 'taken out of context'. I think you're getting it twisted. I never accused you of thinking that the entire league was out to get the Ravens, as my focus was on the original post focusing on referee bias, as the above statement by you alludes to you believing there could be some, and then later stating that you didn't believe that.

Maybe I am misreading what you were trying to say, but again if you aren't a believer in league 'collusion' then why would the NFL ever say anything to officiating crews about going easy on one NFL team or another? Do you see what I'm saying? It can't be both ways; if the league is stepping in and telling refs to lay off the Ravens, then the league has to know that they are biased, and since in your original post you asked if the league had 'finally' stepped in, then obviously you DO subscribe to the theory that the NFL is (was?) holding the Ravens down. It can't be both ways.

I'm sorry, but you would have to be more specific as to what calls the majority thought were questionable, because in a lot of the threads you speak of, cooler heads did often state that although they were calls that we didn't like to see, they could have gone either way or were the right calls. I've watched every game this year, and all I have seen is the Ravens shooting themselves in the foot and letting stupid calls stop us from winning games....and as you have admitted, alot of them were mental mistakes. *shrug* I don't know what else to say, but it sure has been fun debating, .

Edit - Oh, I almost forgot.

"I do not subscribe to the "refs are out to get us" theory"

"I repeat, I do not subscribe to the [b]theory of an organized league effort[/b] to defeat the Ravens."

You actually didn't repeat anything, because you made two different statements. One regards ref bias, one regards league bias. This topic, as well as all of my posts are regarding theories about ref bias. Caught ya!
[/quote]

[Ed_Reed_Pick_Six]

I was getting so used to flags raining down, it was amazing not to see them against Indianapolis. I expect lots of flags against Pittsburgh this week, inexperienced QB under center with the crowd bringing the noise!!!

[rlh445]

[quote name='Child Of Humanity' date='28 November 2009 - 12:29 AM' timestamp='1259386151' post='294780']
I don't really believe the refs are out to get anyone but I know a lot of team's fans feel that way. And as bad as some of the calls have been this year I can see how they would believe that. But the fact is refs make mistakes just like players do. And the teams playing have to be prepared for that and just play better so those mistakes don't effect the outcome of the game. Just my opinion.
[/quote]

This is all I am saying. I have been as incensed as any Ravens fans this year and many others regarding the calls, but only during and immediately following the games. After reviewing the tapes and watching other games I do not have as much emotion invested into, I realized that the calls we are ****ing about are the same calls other teams' fans **** about too, and that we are all suffering because of ref incompetence and lack of discipline from our fave teams; not bias from refs that need to have the league 'step in' and moderate.

[Tank 92]

[quote name='rlh445' date='27 November 2009 - 10:51 PM' timestamp='1259380295' post='294756']
I'm not a politician, although once at a strip club a gentleman from the Maryland Republicans Alliance gave me his card and asked me if I'd be interested in joining.

[b]"I repeat, I do not subscribe to the theory of an organized league effort to defeat the Ravens. What I do believe is that many of the officiating crews have a tilted view of the Ravens' players actions because of the "bad boy" image."[/b]

This statement is in full, and not 'taken out of context'. I think you're getting it twisted. I never accused you of thinking that the entire league was out to get the Ravens, as my focus was on the original post focusing on referee bias, as the above statement by you alludes to you believing there could be some, and then later stating that you didn't believe that.

Maybe I am misreading what you were trying to say, but again if you aren't a believer in league 'collusion' then why would the NFL ever say anything to officiating crews about going easy on one NFL team or another? Do you see what I'm saying? It can't be both ways; if the league is stepping in and telling refs to lay off the Ravens, then the league has to know that they are biased, and since in your original post you asked if the league had 'finally' stepped in, then obviously you DO subscribe to the theory that the NFL is (was?) holding the Ravens down. It can't be both ways.

I'm sorry, but you would have to be more specific as to what calls the majority thought were questionable, because in a lot of the threads you speak of, cooler heads did often state that although they were calls that we didn't like to see, they could have gone either way or were the right calls. I've watched every game this year, and all I have seen is the Ravens shooting themselves in the foot and letting stupid calls stop us from winning games....and as you have admitted, alot of them were mental mistakes. *shrug* I don't know what else to say, but it sure has been fun debating, .

Edit - Oh, I almost forgot.

"I do not subscribe to the "refs are out to get us" theory"

"I repeat, I do not subscribe to the [b]theory of an organized league effort[/b] to defeat the Ravens."

You actually didn't repeat anything, because you made two different statements. One regards ref bias, one regards league bias. This topic, as well as all of my posts are regarding theories about ref bias. Caught ya!
[/quote]


Again, you paraphrased my post and took quotes out of context; As you will read below, I did repeat my 11/26 post....

"I do not subscribe to the "refs are out to get us" theory or [u][b][i]any other organized effort by the league to keep the Ravens from winning.[/i][/b][/u] What I do believe is that our reputation as the "bad boys" of the league has caused a lot of officiating crews to be much more "diligent" (read nit picky) in calling certain penalties against the Ravens, especially in critical situations."


This debate brings to mind the old adage "You can lead a horse to water......".


[size="6"][b][font="Arial Black"]Go Ravens!
Play well, play smart and beat the squealers![/font][/b][/size]

[smashmouth]

It's natural for EVERY person who is a football fan to have a "favorite". Ref's are paid to call a fair game. Do they always do it? I highly doubt it. Scratch that I know they dont.

[CecilRavensFan]

qwell with the New England game with the atrocious officiating, we were still in it but Clayton killed the drive so don't always blame the refs. But with that said, a conspiracy against us? Not sure about all that