Do Fans Owe Clayton An Apology?

[Mahatma_Sloth]

[quote name='hammer' date='06 November 2009 - 11:01 PM' timestamp='1257573686' post='274722']
Yeah under normal circumstances I would agree with your rationale. But what we did to Clayton after the infamous "NE Drop" was ANYTHING BUT normal.

We had a rhetorical "lynch-mob" on this board, all liquored-up, and we tortured him. I'm not talking about that old-weak CIA waterboarding kinda torture either. We did a Mexican Mafia (below the border version) job on Clayton.

Honestly, it got so ugly that the Mods even ran for cover. I'm just questioning did we overreact, and do we need to apologize for it?
[/quote]
yes you guys overreacted. i mean even i was pissed but you cant run a solid player out of town. and where was all the praises when he won us that almost shameful KC home opener. nope this board is only negative with a player like clayton. he was a first round pick blah blah blah get over it

[Corvus]

Bottom line is that there are lots of Ravens fans who will always dislike Mark because he hasn't put up the huge numbers of a 1st round pick.

Me, I support the players on my team and always will. Was I disappointed that Mark dropped the pass in New England? Of course I was, but don't you think he was too? Players make mistakes, its human nature. He worked hard in practice to prevent mistakes like that from happening again when the game is on the line, and it has been showing on the field. Mark, if you read this, good luck tomorrow, we all wanna see you do what you did in Cincy last year again!

[flynismo]

[quote name='Mahatma_Sloth' date='07 November 2009 - 11:34 AM' timestamp='1257608082' post='274802']
yes you guys overreacted. i mean even i was pissed but you cant run a solid player out of town. and where was all the praises when he won us that almost shameful KC home opener. nope this board is only negative with a player like clayton. he was a first round pick blah blah blah get over it
[/quote]


You know whats funny? That's all the Clayton lovers point to is the go-ahead TD against KC, because that's ALL he's done all year.
What has he done throughout his illustrious career? There was his big game against Cincy last year, his go-ahead TD against KC this year..........er.....well.....hmm.....
Help me out here. What exactly has your hero accomplished? What has he done to earn the benefit of the doubt? I get the feeling that these questions will go unaswered, because it is only blind homerism that seperates you from me. Of course, maybe you'll prove me wrong and show me all the great accomplishments he has achieved? *snicker*
I think YOU should get over it; being in denial isn't very becoming.

[CP`C-Pain`CP]

I'll admit, I was pretty hard on him after the NE game... But looking at the numbers and really thinking about it I'm not going into "We should get rid of him."

900+ with some TD's this year and I'll be happy I think, Barring he drops another pass like in New England.
The difference between him and Frank Walker is that when Frank Walker is in the game you can almost safely say "Not good, Hes gonna screw up and make us lose." Every time and you will usually be right XD. However with Clayton, You can't really say that. No, He may not be the hero and win it for you, But he usally wont lose it for you either.

[neepo13]

[quote name='flynismo' date='07 November 2009 - 11:19 AM' timestamp='1257610748' post='274811']
You know whats funny? That's all the Clayton lovers point to is the go-ahead TD against KC, because that's ALL he's done all year.
What has he done throughout his illustrious career? There was his big game against Cincy last year, his go-ahead TD against KC this year..........er.....well.....hmm.....
Help me out here. What exactly has your hero accomplished? What has he done to earn the benefit of the doubt? I get the feeling that these questions will go unaswered, because it is only blind homerism that seperates you from me. Of course, maybe you'll prove me wrong and show me all the great accomplishments he has achieved? *snicker*
I think YOU should get over it; being in denial isn't very becoming.
[/quote]

What are you asking here? Do you want us to point out great plays that the guy has made in his career? Every crucial first down? He scored the TD that sparked our offense vs Minn. He scored the game winning TD vs. KC in 06. Dont try to pretend like Clayton hasnt had his moments with this franchise because he has. Maybe not enough of them to please you but like I said before he's made far more great plays than he has horrible plays.

[neepo13]

[quote name='flynismo' date='07 November 2009 - 01:44 AM' timestamp='1257576290' post='274729']
Well, I can agree that we're better off with Clayton than guys like Moore and Taylor.
That's part of my frustration with Clayton...he clearly has the physical tools to be doing much better, perhaps even a bona fide #1, like Mason in his prime.
But much like Boller, the physical tools are there, but the mental aspect is severly lacking, and is what held both of these guys back from realizing their potential.
And that's what makes it even more frustrating, because the mental part of the game can be improved. You can't teach speed and agility, but you sure as heck can learn how to identify defensive schemes and how to exploit them, how to overcome size mismatches and even use it to your advantage, and so on......it's not like he's a football mastermind but was blessed with the athleticism of a slug.
He CAN improve, but he hasn't, and doesn't look like he ever will. Nothing gets my goat more than wasted potential.

OT-

I get a kick out of how everyone has silently agreed upon names for each side of the Clayton fence....we have the Clayton lovers, and the Haters.
[/quote]

I dont want to sound like a therapist here but it sounds like you've allowed Clayton to toy with your emotions. And you say he sucks because you are afraid of being let down if he doesnt meet your expectations. If your expectations are extremally low, he can only exceed them. That explains alot.

You love him, you just dont want to be hurt by him again. I get it.

[FerrariFan87]

[quote name='neepo13' date='07 November 2009 - 02:26 PM' timestamp='1257618382' post='274837']
I dont want to sound like a therapist here but it sounds like you've allowed Clayton to toy with your emotions. And you say he sucks because you are afraid of being let down if he doesnt meet your expectations. If your expectations are extremally low, he can only exceed them. That explains alot.

You love him, you just dont want to be hurt by him again. I get it.
[/quote]

Dr. Neepo at it again!

[flynismo]

[quote name='FerrariFan87' date='07 November :22 PM' timestamp='1257621760' post='274849']
Dr. Neepo at it again!
[/quote]


haha, she got me there. Actually that probably isn't too far from the truth, lol

[Ravens_fan]

I've never been too hard on Clayton. I don't think he is reached his full potential, but there is time.

[heapitup247]

[quote name='flynismo' date='07 November 2009 - 11:19 AM' timestamp='1257610748' post='274811']
You know whats funny? That's all the Clayton lovers point to is the go-ahead TD against KC, because that's ALL he's done all year.
What has he done throughout his illustrious career? There was his big game against Cincy last year, his go-ahead TD against KC this year..........er.....well.....hmm.....
Help me out here. What exactly has your hero accomplished? What has he done to earn the benefit of the doubt? I get the feeling that these questions will go unaswered, because it is only blind homerism that seperates you from me. Of course, maybe you'll prove me wrong and show me all the great accomplishments he has achieved? *snicker*
I think YOU should get over it; being in denial isn't very becoming.
[/quote]


Are you implying that we would be a better team without Mark Clayton? While I agree hasnt ended up being the guy I had hoped he would be, he is still a crucial part of this offense. hes on pace for 600 yards receiving, which is about what the average #2 in this league accumulates. Hes a average #2 reciever, hes not terrible. we would be a worse team without him.

[Alexir]

[quote name='heapitup247' date='07 November 2009 - 05:43 PM' timestamp='1257633784' post='274894']
Are you implying that we would be a better team without Mark Clayton? While I agree hasnt ended up being the guy I had hoped he would be, he is still a crucial part of this offense. hes on pace for 600 yards receiving, which is about what the average #2 in this league accumulates. Hes a average #2 reciever, hes not terrible. we would be a worse team without him.
[/quote]


Mark Clayton is an amazing run blocker. He was drafted in 2005 when our QB was Kyle Boller. 2006, he had a great year with Mc9. 2007 never happened. 2008, Rookie QB developed chemistry with him towards the end. 2009, he missed a lot of training camp but has made big plays.

I think his downfall is his height. Joe Flacco overthrows a lot of our recievers because they arent that tall. Thats probably we Kelley has more receptions on targets.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Ravens_fan' date='07 November 2009 - 04:08 PM' timestamp='1257628124' post='274876']
I've never been too hard on Clayton. I don't think he is reached his full potential, but there is time.
[/quote]

I personally think the player he is now is the player he'll be the rest of his career. His ability to find holes in zones and route-running will improve but I don't see ever becoming a true #1.

But I'm not going to hold that against him. He was a monster in college but what made him successful at that level can only get him so far in the NFL. He's a good supporting player and fans should be happy he's on the team.

[hammer]

[quote name='Alexir' date='07 November 2009 - 08:26 PM' timestamp='1257640002' post='274904']
Mark Clayton is an amazing run blocker. He was drafted in 2005 when our QB was Kyle Boller. 2006, he had a great year with Mc9. 2007 never happened. 2008, Rookie QB developed chemistry with him towards the end. 2009, he missed a lot of training camp but has made big plays.

I think his downfall is his height. Joe Flacco overthrows a lot of our recievers because they arent that tall. Thats probably we Kelley has more receptions on targets.
[/quote]

I think you hit it on the head.

[b]2005[/b] - rookie year

[b]2006[/b] - excellent, 67 catches, 939 yds, 14.0 ypc, 5 tds

[b]2007 [/b]- terrible team, 5-11, 48 catches, 531 yds, 11.1 ypc, 0 tds (mason had monster year)


[b]2008[/b] - huge ypc year, 41 catches, 695 yds, 17.0 ypc, 3 tds

I can't really see where Clayton has been so HUGE of a dissapointment. Did he make all-pro? No. But he still has time to become a great reciever.

Your point about Flacco's tendacy to sail throws is also correct. He looks for K. Washington exclusively for that reason on third downs.

[Mahatma_Sloth]

[quote name='flynismo' date='07 November 2009 - 09:19 AM' timestamp='1257610748' post='274811']
You know whats funny? That's all the Clayton lovers point to is the go-ahead TD against KC, because that's ALL he's done all year.
What has he done throughout his illustrious career? There was his big game against Cincy last year, his go-ahead TD against KC this year..........er.....well.....hmm.....
Help me out here. What exactly has your hero accomplished? What has he done to earn the benefit of the doubt? I get the feeling that these questions will go unaswered, because it is only blind homerism that seperates you from me. Of course, maybe you'll prove me wrong and show me all the great accomplishments he has achieved? *snicker*
I think YOU should get over it; being in denial isn't very becoming.
[/quote]
hes not my hero but he is a RAVEN and that is what he dose that gets the benefit of the doubt and so i will support him.... much like i did with Boller. It may be blind homerism or just that i know you nor I will make any decisions concerning player personel and those whom job it actually is will do everything they can to put the best players available to us on the field and in a position to win games now you can hate on clayton and by proxy the front office and coaching staff cuz they see something in him that you refuse to because of the position in which he was drafted and im not in denial because i accept we have a solid #2 whom gets paid #2 money true he was drafted in the first round and by your criteria if he isnt a superstar he is a bust but i still dont and will not think that way for i see it as a 2faced perspective. if you want to pawn it off on "constructive criticism" but being a hater isnt very becoming either

[Dan The Man Ravens #1 Fan]

[quote name='Mahatma_Sloth' date='08 November 2009 - 12:04 PM' timestamp='1257699884' post='275218']
hes not my hero but he is a RAVEN and that is what he dose that gets the benefit of the doubt and so i will support him.... much like i did with Boller. It may be blind homerism or just that i know you nor I will make any decisions concerning player personel and those whom job it actually is will do everything they can to put the best players available to us on the field and in a position to win games now you can hate on clayton and by proxy the front office and coaching staff cuz they see something in him that you refuse to because of the position in which he was drafted and im not in denial because i accept we have a solid #2 whom gets paid #2 money true he was drafted in the first round and by your criteria if he isnt a superstar he is a bust but i still dont and will not think that way for i see it as a 2faced perspective. if you want to pawn it off on "constructive criticism" but being a hater isnt very becoming either
[/quote]

He is not my favorite Raven either but he is a Raven. I agree with what you have said. Not every first round pick has proven to be a superstar. I am greatful that he has played as well as he has. He could of been another true bust like Travis Taylor.