Do Fans Owe Clayton An Apology?

[PuRock]

[quote name='Bosanac' date='05 November 2009 - 11:28 PM' timestamp='1257481685' post='274112']
If we didn't have clayton, who would we have?
[/quote]

Well we could've drafted Roddy White instead. He was drafted 4 picks after Clayton in the first round.

Clayton apologizers are all about that one catch. It isn't about the one catch. I think the expectation level for Clayton was so high since he was a first rounder. Even when he does have decent games, they are hardly 1st rounder type games.

My biggest gripe with Clayton is what happens after his route fails but the ball is still in the QB hands. You need to be able to get open and come back for the ball.

[Mahatma_Sloth]

[quote name='flynismo' date='05 November 2009 - 08:16 PM' timestamp='1257477367' post='274078']
Since when do we apologize for holding people accountable when they screw up?

He owes us an apology for the past four years.
[/quote]


[quote name='theFRANCHISE' date='05 November 2009 - 08:21 PM' timestamp='1257477696' post='274081']
That one drop pretty much was the culmination of four years of unrealized potential and frustration. I personally don't harbor such disdain or hatred for him, but I can understand why others would.
[/quote]


[quote name='flynismo' date='05 November 2009 - 08:29 PM' timestamp='1257478142' post='274089']
Sure I believe in people changing. But you can only be an "emerging" player for so long; after four and a half years in the league it is safe to say that he is as good as he's ever going to be.
[/quote]


[quote name='52Kia Kaha92' date='05 November 2009 - 09:11 PM' timestamp='1257480672' post='274108']
Clayton is a guy like this. He will make an absolutley amazing play like that catch (who remembers last year against the Bengals where he torched the Bengals for 3 amazing catches)

Clayton is a good player, but not a great one and i really hope he can come up big although i have been saying that for 4 years. Im a Clayton supporter because not only is he solid on the field but he is a great character guy who has had a rough few years lately and is just a godd guy.

I really hope he can break out these last few weeks and become our number 1 next year.
[/quote]
you all meen the last 4 years except for '06 right... he put up #1 numbers at the #2 but how soon we forget when were trying to drive a point home(like fox news)

[flynismo]

[quote name='Twoo' date='06 November 2009 - 10:20 AM' timestamp='1257517205' post='274157']
I don't think we owe Clayton anything. He's on track for 693 yards and 5 td's. Just because Clayton has a good game doesn't mean we need to kiss his feet and forget his past. Hell, even JaRussell has a good game from time to time. Clayton was a failed project- he's a 3rd down back at MOST. Not a second string wr.
[/quote]


See that's just the point I was trying to make earlier.

People make all kinds of excuses for his past, everything from "we're a run first team" to "Flacco locks in on Mason and doesn't even look for Clayton".
This year, the "Excuse Well" has run dry.
Flacco is on pace for over 4200 yards and 28 TD. Take notes Clayton, THAT is how a first round draft pick is supposed to perform, especially around these parts.

When I think about it, I guess I am sorry. Or rather, I feel sorry. I feel sorry for Clayton that he has turned into the Kyle Boller of WR (2 or 3 good games a year, the rest junk). He probably beats up on himself enough and doesn't need people like me hounding him. I know I would if I were such an epic failure on a national stage.

[CorvusCorax]

In short, no we don't. These guys make enough to be scrutinized. I don't have to apologize to anyone in that aspect. He gets paid millions (or hundreds of thousands) to catch a ball and do some running and blocking.

I provide electricity and god help me if that goes out lol.

[Mahatma_Sloth]

[quote name='52Kia Kaha92' date='06 November 2009 - 12:36 AM' timestamp='1257492973' post='274126']
Especially when he could of picked the following
- Roddy White
- Logan Mankins
- Michael Roos
- Corey Webster
- Lofa Tatupu
- Vincent Jackson
- Frank Gore
- Justin Tuck
- Kirk morrison
- Trent Cole
- Jay Ratliff

oh well lol
[/quote]

ya if we only had a pick before #22 we coulda had

-Alex Smith(1)
-PacMan Jones(6)
-Troy Williamson(7)
-Carlos Rogers(9)
-Mike Williams(10)
-Travis Johnson(16)
-David Pollack(17)
-Alex Barron(19)
-Matt Jones(21)

poor excuse. hindsight is 20/20. we coulda been much worse off. he dosent make 1st round money. what round he was picked is irrelavant. we have a solid #2.

[Mahatma_Sloth]

[quote name='flynismo' date='06 November 2009 - 09:11 AM' timestamp='1257523916' post='274199']
See that's just the point I was trying to make earlier.

People make all kinds of excuses for his past, everything from "we're a run first team" to "Flacco locks in on Mason and doesn't even look for Clayton".
This year, the "Excuse Well" has run dry.
Flacco is on pace for over 4200 yards and 28 TD. Take notes Clayton, THAT is how a first round draft pick is supposed to perform, especially around these parts.

When I think about it, I guess I am sorry. Or rather, I feel sorry. I feel sorry for Clayton that he has turned into the Kyle Boller of WR (2 or 3 good games a year, the rest junk). He probably beats up on himself enough and doesn't need people like me hounding him. I know I would if I were such an epic failure on a national stage.
[/quote]
except for the fact that Flacco has overthrown downfield an open Mark Clayton numerous times... i could count them up if you like

[flynismo]

[quote name='CorvusCorax' date='06 November 2009 - 12:15 PM' timestamp='1257524127' post='274201']
In short, no we don't. These guys make enough to be scrutinized. I don't have to apologize to anyone in that aspect. He gets paid millions (or hundreds of thousands) to catch a ball and do some running and blocking.

I provide electricity and god help me if that goes out lol.
[/quote]

haha, I like that. It really puts things into perspective.

[Mahatma_Sloth]

[quote name='CorvusCorax' date='06 November 2009 - 09:15 AM' timestamp='1257524127' post='274201']
In short, no we don't. These guys make enough to be scrutinized. I don't have to apologize to anyone in that aspect. He gets paid millions (or hundreds of thousands) to catch a ball and do some running and blocking.

I provide electricity and god help me if that goes out lol.
[/quote]
is your keystroking like beating a press while staying on your rout turning to spot a bullet that will be reaching you in .5 seconds then tweaking your body at full sprint to put yourself in the best position to catch said bullet.... or are you more of a defensive typer

ya im sure it is the same pressure cooker when your sitting at your desk punching keys.... ill give NFL players the benefit of the doubt when it comes to margin for error in the work place

[flynismo]

[quote name='Mahatma_Sloth' date='06 November 2009 - 12:03 PM' timestamp='1257523423' post='274192']
you all meen the last 4 years except for '06 right... he put up #1 numbers at the #2 but how soon we forget when were trying to drive a point home(like fox news)
[/quote]


Wow, you guys have resorted to a new all time low. What did he do in 06? 900- something yards and 5 TDs?? You call that #1 numbers? Please, thats not even as good as a lot of other #2's in the league, much less #1. The best year of his career was average #2 WR production.

Yawn...............................

[flynismo]

[quote name='Mahatma_Sloth' date='06 November 2009 - 12:32 PM' timestamp='1257525153' post='274206']
except for the fact that Flacco has overthrown downfield an open Mark Clayton numerous times... i could count them up if you like
[/quote]


And Clayton dropped two red zone passes in the New England game alone, and for a quick, shifty veteran, rarely seems to be open any given game. Guess they can call it even.

[Mahatma_Sloth]

[quote name='flynismo' date='06 November 2009 - 09:42 AM' timestamp='1257525779' post='274212']
Wow, you guys have resorted to a new all time low. What did he do in 06? 900- something yards and 5 TDs?? You call that #1 numbers? Please, thats not even as good as a lot of other #2's in the league, much less #1. The best year of his career was average #2 WR production.

Yawn...............................
[/quote]
939 yards yes 41 from a g. please name some #2s that average 900+ a season

[quote name='flynismo' date='06 November 2009 - 09:50 AM' timestamp='1257526213' post='274214']
And Clayton dropped two red zone passes in the New England game alone, and for a quick, shifty veteran, rarely seems to be open any given game. Guess they can call it even.
[/quote]
ya its helping clayton, one of Flaccos overthrows got Clayton in at #3 on last weeks top 5 catches on nfl.com [url="http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-countdowns/09000d5d813df6f2/Top-5-catches"]video link[/url]... we'll call it a wash

[flynismo]

[quote name='Mahatma_Sloth' date='06 November 2009 - 01:00 PM' timestamp='1257526851' post='274219']
939 yards yes 41 from a g. please name some #2s that average 900+ a season
[/quote]

That's simple enough; I can name four or five without even thinking about it. I'm sure I can find a few more if I bothered looking it up. But more importantly, I was wondering when 939 yards and 5 TD was considered #1 production?

I'm also curious if you guys are finally going to admit that he's a scrub when he puts up another 700 yards, 4 TD season in a year when our QB is playing on a Pro Bowl level?

-Stud QB.
check

-Prolific passing offense.
check

-veteran WR playing alongside to take the focus off Clayton.
check

-lining up across from #2 CB while the good CBs cover Mason.
Seems that excuses will be in short supply following this year.

[neepo13]

Classy fans should avoid ripping a guy like that period. Unless, his name is Chris Carr or Frank Walker, then its perfectly deserved.

[flynismo]

[quote name='neepo13' date='06 November 2009 - 01:26 PM' timestamp='1257528379' post='274231']
Classy fans should avoid ripping a guy like that period. Unless, his name is Chris Carr or Frank Walker, then its perfectly deserved.
[/quote]

Why does Walker get ripped for basically costing us the MIN game, Carr gets ripped for blowing coverage and KR, but Clayton get a pass? The only difference between Clayton and those two is that A) Clayton is a starter, which means he gets even more opportunities to suck and He has sucked longer on this team than the other two.

Let me rephrase....what has Clayton DONE to deserve the benefit of the doubt?

[Mahatma_Sloth]

[quote name='flynismo' date='06 November 2009 - 10:24 AM' timestamp='1257528261' post='274229']
That's simple enough; I can name four or five without even thinking about it. I'm sure I can find a few more if I bothered looking it up. But more importantly, I was wondering when 939 yards and 5 TD was considered #1 production?

I'm also curious if you guys are finally going to admit that he's a scrub when he puts up another 700 yards, 4 TD season in a year when our QB is playing on a Pro Bowl level?

-Stud QB.
check

-Prolific passing offense.
check

-veteran WR playing alongside to take the focus off Clayton.
check

-lining up across from #2 CB while the good CBs cover Mason.
Seems that excuses will be in short supply following this year.
[/quote]
wow looks like you have a crystal ball you already know flacco is gonna put up 4,000+ and 28 td and that clayton is gonna only have 700 and 4 td, what else is gonna happen, are you even gonna watch the rest of the season. you know i slightly remember you calling b.s. on projections. ill just wait and see if flacco can correct and connect on some of those errant throws.... and so long as its a team sport and there are 22 ppl on the field not just one, there will always be an excuse. muhahahaha

[reed20]

Errant throws? Flacco completed 80% of his passes last week, elaborate on exactly what is so errant about his throws?

[neepo13]

[quote name='flynismo' date='06 November 2009 - 12:33 PM' timestamp='1257528789' post='274235']
Why does Walker get ripped for basically costing us the MIN game, Carr gets ripped for blowing coverage and KR, but Clayton get a pass? The only difference between Clayton and those two is that A) Clayton is a starter, which means he gets even more opportunities to suck and He has sucked longer on this team than the other two.

Let me rephrase....what has Clayton DONE to deserve the benefit of the doubt?
[/quote]

I believe Clayton is the guy that scored the game winning TD week 1, he's also the guy who's TD sparked our offense at Minn. You dont like Clayton, so I expect you to ignore the fact that he makes more plays than he actually blows. Does he disappear a couple of games every season? Sure. Is he inconsistant? Very much so. He might not always help us win the game but very rarely has he actually done something that helped cost us the game. Carr gave up the game winning TD vs Cinci, and has been horrible every time the football gets anywhere near him. He blows more plays than he makes. The same is true for Frank Walker. The same is not true for Mark Clayton. He makes far more plays than he actually blows.

[neepo13]

[quote name='reed20' date='06 November 2009 - 12:43 PM' timestamp='1257529405' post='274245']
Errant throws? Flacco completed 80% of his passes last week, elaborate on exactly what is so errant about his throws?
[/quote]

Flacco played very well last week but dont act like the guy is prefect. He puts the ball up to high sometimes, just like all QB's do. That doesnt give the wideouts a free pass but still.

[flynismo]

[quote name='Mahatma_Sloth' date='06 November 2009 - 01:38 PM' timestamp='1257529100' post='274238']
wow looks like you have a crystal ball you already know flacco is gonna put up 4,000+ and 28 td and that clayton is gonna only have 700 and 4 td, what else is gonna happen, are you even gonna watch the rest of the season. you know i slightly remember you calling b.s. on projections. ill just wait and see if flacco can correct and connect on some of those errant throws.... and so long as its a team sport and there are 22 ppl on the field not just one, there will always be an excuse. muhahahaha
[/quote]


That's a typical Clayton lover response. Way to twist my words.

So answer the question, if that scenario plays out, and it almost certainly will, are you guys going to admit he's a bum?

Oh wait, you answered that in your last sentence, of course you'll have an excuse why everyone but Clayton performed well. Just like you guys have had them in spades the past four years.

[Mahatma_Sloth]

[quote name='reed20' date='06 November 2009 - 10:43 AM' timestamp='1257529405' post='274245']
Errant throws? Flacco completed 80% of his passes last week, elaborate on exactly what is so errant about his throws?
[/quote]
well just off the top of my head, last week he tried to overthrow him twice but clayton came down with on which you can see on my video link on page 2 of this thread.... like i said i can go back through the games and count them up

[reed20]

[quote name='neepo13' date='06 November 2009 - 09:50 AM' timestamp='1257529801' post='274252']
Flacco played very well last week but dont act like the guy is prefect. He puts the ball up to high sometimes, just like all QB's do. That doesnt give the wideouts a free pass but still.
[/quote]


That is true, but as you said "like all QB's do". Flacco like the others that are considered GREAT QB's is on target most of the time therefore this really shouldnt be spoken of as if its an actual issue.

[neepo13]

[quote name='flynismo' date='06 November 2009 - 12:50 PM' timestamp='1257529810' post='274253']
That's a typical Clayton lover response. Way to twist my words.

So answer the question, if that scenario plays out, and it almost certainly will, are you guys going to admit he's a bum?

Oh wait, you answered that in your last sentence, of course you'll have an excuse why everyone but Clayton performed well. Just like you guys have had them in spades the past four years.
[/quote]

The season is far from over. After the first 5 games last year Flacco was projected to throw over 20 pics, he didnt.

What happens if Clayton out performs his projected numbers? Will you still be here talking crap about the guy saying he sucks? Clayton isnt going to be the next great NFL wr and yes, he's underperformed considering where he was drafted but he's not as bad as you try to make him out to be.

[Mahatma_Sloth]

[quote name='flynismo' date='06 November 2009 - 10:50 AM' timestamp='1257529810' post='274253']
That's a typical Clayton lover response. Way to twist my words.

So answer the question, if that scenario plays out, and it almost certainly will, are you guys going to admit he's a bum?

Oh wait, you answered that in your last sentence, of course you'll have an excuse why everyone but Clayton performed well. Just like you guys have had them in spades the past four years.
[/quote]
yes i did and you will have just as many excuses of why he sucks appently even if he would exceed your expectations like if he got 900+ yards and over 4 tds

[reed20]

[quote name='Mahatma_Sloth' date='06 November 2009 - 09:51 AM' timestamp='1257529905' post='274254']
well just off the top of my head, last week he tried to overthrow him twice but clayton came down with on which you can see on my video link on page 2 of this thread.... like i said i can go back through the games and count them up
[/quote]

I remember but its not that big an issue, and choose your words carefully I doubt Flacco TRIED to overthrow him twice.


And as far as this Clayton situation goes, I wouldn't apologize to him. Its a loss that should have been a victory if he simply finished off that play but I will say that i'm over it and that hes redeemed himself making some more difficult catches as you stated.

[Mahatma_Sloth]

[quote name='reed20' date='06 November 2009 - 10:55 AM' timestamp='1257530119' post='274257']
That is true, but as you said "like all QB's do". Flacco like the others that are considered GREAT QB's is on target most of the time therefore this really shouldnt be spoken of as if its an actual issue.
[/quote]
in claytons case it is an issue because most of said throws are on deep routs that woud put up numbers that would shut haters mouths

[FerrariFan87]

I never jumped all over Clayton because Mark knows that he screwed up and there was no point. He's been a very good player for us, and he's made some incredible catches over the years. I hope we re-sign him.

[Mahatma_Sloth]

[quote name='reed20' date='06 November 2009 - 10:58 AM' timestamp='1257530339' post='274262']
Its a loss that should have been a victory if he simply finished off that play
[/quote]
by that logic Clayton won us the KC game

[Mahatma_Sloth]

[quote name='FerrariFan87' date='06 November 2009 - 11:01 AM' timestamp='1257530494' post='274264']
I never jumped all over Clayton because Mark knows that he screwed up and there was no point. He's been a very good player for us, and he's made some incredible catches over the years. I hope we re-sign him.
[/quote]
ditto

[reed20]

That doesn't excuse the drop.

[flynismo]

[quote name='Mahatma_Sloth' date='06 November 2009 - 01:57 PM' timestamp='1257530242' post='274261']
yes i did and you will have just as many excuses of why he sucks appently even if he would exceed your expectations like if he got 900+ yards and over 4 tds
[/quote]


And that's exactly my point. If Clayton put up 900 yards and 5 TDs, he would have exceeded an awful lot of people's expectations. You talk as if those numbers are something to brag about (especially from a first rounder). If he did manage to do that, maybe we can call him a legit 2, rather than an underachieving scrub.

The funny thing is, he would be a #3 WR, at best, on two teams in just our own division. He's probably the #3 on half the teams in the league.