Do Fans Owe Clayton An Apology?

[hammer]

Is it proper or classy for Ravens Fans to apologize for harsh treatment of a player? Has it ever happened before? It looks like Mark has found his groove in the games since the "NE Drop."

Do we owe him an apology? I think we do and I haven't heard a peep from anyone about it. Your thoughts?

[theFRANCHISE]

Honestly, I don't think anyone will swallow their pride and give him an apology until he plays as consistently as he did against Denver, for the rest of this season. It may take him making another game-winning catch like in Week 1 to get back in the fans' good graces.

For now, I'm just happy to see him improving and I'm fine with him as the #2 receiver. If it works, it works. Kelley Washington's played well, but he's proven most effective in the slot, so if it ain't broke, don't try to fix it.

[raven46]

I was never really down on him in the first place because I'm not a hater, and im happy that hes making great catches now.

[flynismo]

[quote name='hammer' date='05 November 2009 - 11:12 PM' timestamp='1257477127' post='274071']
Is it proper or classy for Ravens Fans to apologize for harsh treatment of a player? Has it ever happened before? It looks like Mark has found his groove in the games since the "NE Drop."

Do we owe him an apology? I think we do and I haven't heard a peep from anyone about it. Your thoughts?
[/quote]


Since when do we apologize for holding people accountable when they screw up?

He owes us an apology for the past four years.

[hammer]

[quote name='theFRANCHISE' date='05 November 2009 - 11:13 PM' timestamp='1257477217' post='274075']
[b]Honestly, I don't think anyone will swallow their pride and give him an apology until he plays as consistently as he did against Denver, for the rest of this season.[/b] It may take him making another game-winning catch like in Week 1 to get back in the fans' good graces.

For now, I'm just happy to see him improving and I'm fine with him as the #2 receiver. If it works, it works. Kelley Washington's played well, but he's proven most effective in the slot, so if it ain't broke, don't try to fix it.
[/quote]

Isn't that a pretty harsh sentence for dropping just one ball? I thought that was an incredible catch he made in the Denver game, and then Flacco actually overthrew him on a fly route against the Bengals.

Had he made that catch for touchdown, I think the fans would have forgotten all about "The Drop."

[theFRANCHISE]

[quote name='hammer' date='05 November 2009 - 10:19 PM' timestamp='1257477554' post='274080']
Isn't that a pretty harsh sentence for dropping just one ball?
[/quote]
That one drop pretty much was the culmination of four years of unrealized potential and frustration. I personally don't harbor such disdain or hatred for him, but I can understand why others would.

[hammer]

[quote name='flynismo' date='05 November 2009 - 11:16 PM' timestamp='1257477367' post='274078']
Since when do we apologize for holding people accountable when they screw up?

He owes us an apology for the past four years.
[/quote]

Even though I understand your rationale, I still think it is a bit harsh. This is that guys livelihood.

Don't you believe in people changing during the course of their life? You don't just "literally" throw away the key?

[darklight1216]

[quote name='hammer' date='05 November 2009 - 10:19 PM' timestamp='1257477554' post='274080']
[b]Isn't that a pretty harsh sentence for dropping just one ball?[/b] I thought that was an incredible catch he made in the Denver game, and then Flacco actually overthrew him on a fly route against the Bengals.

Had he made that catch for touchdown, I think the fans would have forgotten all about "The Drop."
[/quote]
It's not just one ball. Like Flynismo said, it's his years of inconsistency.

I don't think the fans owe him an apology. If anything he should be sending Joe Flacco a thank you card for saving his career.

[hammer]

[quote name='theFRANCHISE' date='05 November 2009 - 11:21 PM' timestamp='1257477696' post='274081']
That one drop pretty much was the culmination of four years of unrealized potential and frustration. I personally don't harbor such disdain or hatred for him, but I can understand why others would.
[/quote]

Yeah, it's probably just me who wants to forgive him.

[flynismo]

[quote name='hammer' date='05 November 2009 - 11:22 PM' timestamp='1257477760' post='274082']
Even though I understand your rationale, I still think it is a bit harsh. This is that guys livelihood.

Don't you believe in people changing during the course of their life? You don't just "literally" throw away the key?
[/quote]


Sure I believe in people changing. But you can only be an "emerging" player for so long; after four and a half years in the league it is safe to say that he is as good as he's ever going to be.

[flynismo]

I don't see anything wrong with apologizing for ripping into him. If that's how you feel, then you're a better man than me, because I'm not as patient or merciful.

But you don't OWE him an apology.

[Bltravens]

Flys disgust in Claytons inconsistencies is unrivaled on this board im pretty sure lol.

[raven46]

[quote name='flynismo' date='05 November 2009 - 09:33 PM' timestamp='1257478435' post='274093']
I don't see anything wrong with apologizing for ripping into him. If that's how you feel, then you're a better man than me, because I'm not as patient or merciful.

But you don't OWE him an apology.
[/quote]
and he doesn't OWE you an apology for the last 4 years........

[1/28/01]

[quote name='hammer' date='05 November 2009 - 10:22 PM' timestamp='1257477760' post='274082']
Even though I understand your rationale, I still think it is a bit harsh. This is that guys livelihood.

Don't you believe in people changing during the course of their life? You don't just "literally" throw away the key?
[/quote]

Of course by literally, you mean figuratively, correct?

No keys involved here.....

[flynismo]

[quote name='raven46' date='05 November 2009 - 11:43 PM' timestamp='1257479002' post='274101']
and he doesn't OWE you an apology for the last 4 years........
[/quote]


Is that right?

Obviously you didn't catch it the first time, so I'll explain that I was speaking rhetorically. I don't expect Clayton to issue a formal apololgy for his sorry performance the past four years.

But if anyone SHOULD be apologizing to anyone, he should be the one doing it.

[RoflDogs]

I personally am a Clayton supporter, but yes, i was really pissed when he dropped the ball. However, you gotta learn to get over it and move on

[52Kia Kaha92]

Clayton is a guy like this. He will make an absolutley amazing play like that catch (who remembers last year against the Bengals where he torched the Bengals for 3 amazing catches)

Clayton is a good player, but not a great one and i really hope he can come up big although i have been saying that for 4 years. Im a Clayton supporter because not only is he solid on the field but he is a great character guy who has had a rough few years lately and is just a godd guy.

I really hope he can break out these last few weeks and become our number 1 next year.

[hammer]

[quote name='1/28/01' date='05 November 2009 - 11:54 PM' timestamp='1257479683' post='274105']
Of course by literally, you mean figuratively, correct?

No keys involved here.....
[/quote]

You are correct sir.

[1/28/01]

[quote name='hammer' date='05 November 2009 - 11:12 PM' timestamp='1257480767' post='274109']
You are correct sir.
[/quote]
- ha

Just one of my pet peeves - the over usage and improper usage of the word literally.

On topic - no apology needed. He failed us and the team, we were all bummed and now he's making up for it a bit, IMO. If he finishes with 800+ yards and 6+ TD's, I will be happy to have him as our #2.

[Bosanac]

If we didn't have clayton, who would we have?

[hammer]

[quote name='flynismo' date='05 November 2009 - 11:33 PM' timestamp='1257478435' post='274093']
I don't see anything wrong with apologizing for ripping into him. If that's how you feel, then you're a better man than me, because I'm not as patient or merciful.

But you don't OWE him an apology.
[/quote]

Well, it's really not ALL patience and mercy, but I do admit to the foundation.

With that being said, let me go back and review those four years of unfultilled potential:

1. I gave EVERYBODY a pass for the 2006 and 2007 years who had anything to do
with the offensive stink called "Billick and Boller Ringling Bros Circus."

2. Most people don't realize that they are comparing Clayton to D. Mason on a
daily basis. These same people don't realize that D. Mason is a greater
player than even they think. D. Mason is a "Hall of Fame" candidate and it's
really unfair to compare Clayton to him.

3. Now that Cam and Flacco is in town, it is clear that Clayton has the tools to
be the deep threat the Ravens so desperately needs. He gets open deep at
least once a game. Some of the time Flacco hits him in stride, but sometimes
Joe misses him. I get the feeling that fans blame him for overthrows too.

4. Cedric Benson was a first round pick in 2005 and he is just finding
his "mojo."

5. Now that we know what we know about Billick, Boller, Cam, Flacco, Rice and the
potential of this new offense, I think we need to give Clayton a clean slate
just like everyone else.

"The Drop" was a drop, no getting around that, but the lost potential of the last four years is an unfair "albatross" now that we know what we know bout this team and this new offense. IMHO.

[flynismo]

[quote name='hammer' date='06 November 2009 - 12:30 AM' timestamp='1257481836' post='274113']
Well, it's really not ALL patience and mercy, but I do admit to the foundation.

With that being said, let me go back and review those four years of unfultilled potential:

1. I gave EVERYBODY a pass for the 2006 and 2007 years who had anything to do
with the offensive stink called "Billick and Boller Ringling Bros Circus."

2. Most people don't realize that they are comparing Clayton to D. Mason on a
daily basis. These same people don't realize that D. Mason is a greater
player than even they think. D. Mason is a "Hall of Fame" candidate and it's
really unfair to compare Clayton to him.

3. Now that Cam and Flacco is in town, it is clear that Clayton has the tools to
be the deep threat the Ravens so desperately needs. He gets open deep at
least once a game. Some of the time Flacco hits him in stride, but sometimes
Joe misses him. I get the feeling that fans blame him for overthrows too.

4. Cedric Benson was a first round pick in 2005 and he is just finding
his "mojo."

5. Now that we know what we know about Billick, Boller, Cam, Flacco, Rice and the
potential of this new offense, I think we need to give Clayton a clean slate
just like everyone else.

"The Drop" was a drop, no getting around that, but the lost potential of the last four years is an unfair "albatross" now that we know what we know bout this team and this new offense. IMHO.
[/quote]


I'm too tired right now to give a long response, and since all the other points you brought up have been discussed before elsewhere, I'll just address #2.

When Keyshawn called our WR bums, do you recall Mason pointing out that he was a fourth rounder and Keyshawn was a first, yet Mace was still playing and Keyshawn wasn't?
I bring that up because it is absolutely fair to compare Clayton to Mace, since Clayton was drafted at the same point in the draft as Ray Lewis, for example.
I can't personally give Clayton a free pass for all these years, because Mace, Heap and our RBs succeeded/flourished in this same system that my whipping boy flunked in.

He definitely has the tools to get there now, but the evidence against him is still damning.....
Flacco is on pace to throw for over 4200 yards, and despite that, not a single guy is on pace to catch for 1000 yards (which these days isn't all that impressive). Our leading receiver is our RB.

This can't possibly be what Oz envisioned when they chose Clayton with the 21st overall pick....

[52Kia Kaha92]

[quote name='flynismo' date='05 November 2009 - 11:52 PM' timestamp='1257483134' post='274117']
I'm too tired right now to give a long response, and since all the other points you brought up have been discussed before elsewhere, I'll just address #2.

When Keyshawn called our WR bums, do you recall Mason pointing out that he was a fourth rounder and Keyshawn was a first, yet Mace was still playing and Keyshawn wasn't?
I bring that up because it is absolutely fair to compare Clayton to Mace, since Clayton was drafted at the same point in the draft as Ray Lewis, for example.
I can't personally give Clayton a free pass for all these years, because Mace, Heap and our RBs succeeded/flourished in this same system that my whipping boy flunked in.

He definitely has the tools to get there now, but the evidence against him is still damning.....
Flacco is on pace to throw for over 4200 yards, and despite that, not a single guy is on pace to catch for 1000 yards (which these days isn't all that impressive). Our leading receiver is our RB.

[b]This can't possibly be what Oz envisioned when they chose Clayton with the 21st overall pick....[/b]
[/quote]

Especially when he could of picked the following
- Roddy White
- Logan Mankins
- Michael Roos
- Corey Webster
- Lofa Tatupu
- Vincent Jackson
- Frank Gore
- Justin Tuck
- Kirk morrison
- Trent Cole
- Jay Ratliff

oh well lol

[flynismo]

[quote name='52Kia Kaha92' date='06 November 2009 - 03:36 AM' timestamp='1257492973' post='274126']
Especially when he could of picked the following
- Roddy White
- Logan Mankins
- Michael Roos
- Corey Webster
- Lofa Tatupu
- Vincent Jackson
- Frank Gore
- Justin Tuck
- Kirk morrison
- Trent Cole
- Jay Ratliff

oh well lol
[/quote]


Tell ya what, Vincent Jackson would look awfully good in purple!

OT- what is it with guys named Vincent Jackson being physical freaks of nature?? First it was Oakland's RB (better known as Bo Jackson), now it's this guy in SD. hmmmm.... better keep our eyes peeled in future drafts

[AwakenTheDemon]

I don't really think anyone owes anyone else an "apology". Fans who like and support Clayton are going to continue to do so, barring a complete meltdown. The fans who dislike Clayton and want him gone are going to continue to do so, barring a significant and completely unforeseen increase in his statistics and consistency.

What it boils down to is, Clayton is our #2, whether people are keen on it or not. No matter what "camp" you fall into, there's going to be weeks where Clayton "shows up" and other's where he doesn't. It's something I've slowly grown accustomed to, even though I do not think he was a complete "bust" as some state. The best Clayton can do is to continue to play as best as he can, and make his case to the Ravens management. Luckily for him, the fans do not choose who we keep and who we release. And since his chances of winning over the whole fan base is about slim to none, all he can do is hope the big guys running the team want him around. We'll find out what his future holds this offseason.

[Tighthead420]

Even if Clayton becomes what he was supposed to be he will not get one from me. He must play consistently, like many posters have said. But that doesn't mean he should get an apology for the fans frustration and disappointment thus far.

[EdReedFTW]

[quote name='hammer' date='05 November 2009 - 10:26 PM' timestamp='1257477987' post='274086']
Yeah, it's probably just me who wants to forgive him.
[/quote]

people have been riding him rather hard

[Twoo]

I don't think we owe Clayton anything. He's on track for 693 yards and 5 td's. Just because Clayton has a good game doesn't mean we need to kiss his feet and forget his past. Hell, even JaRussell has a good game from time to time. Clayton was a failed project- he's a 3rd down back at MOST. Not a second string wr.

[Ravens549]

We have won one game and now we owe players apologies?

[Ravens549]

[quote name='Ravens549' date='06 November 2009 - 09:27 AM' timestamp='1257517636' post='274158']
We have won one game and now we owe players apologies?
[/quote]
Beat the Bengals, Colts, and Steelers and then I will question some of my posts. Heck 2 out of 3 will be nice; being 1 is the Squeelers.