Does Our Running Game Miss Jason Brown?

[neepo13]

Granted our running game isnt horrible but we are seeing our backs have to shake off tacklers in the backfield much more than they had to last year. I am not the biggest McGahee suporter, I think he's a disappointment, but people have been calling him out because of his "dancing" in the back field and I am not really sure he deserves it. He cant hit a hole thats got a defender in it. It happens mostly on McGahee runs but we've seen it on more than a couple of Ray Rice runs as well. Whats the difference from last year to this year? Have our G's gotten worse? Do we miss Brown? Is it Lo Neal's absence?

[theFRANCHISE]

I pin it more on Lorenzo Neal's absence than anything wrong with Matt Birk or either of our guards. Neal created holes simply by bowling over people; McClain, who's a good blocker in his own right, usually takes on guys and pushes them back. Huge difference.

Too bad Lo-Neal's pretty much done. That preseason hamstring injury is a huge setback with his age and the punishment he's taken over his long career.

[PuRock]

And I agree with Franchise. Neal's absence was a huge loss. Especially since we could really utilize three backs with completely different styles. Without Neal, McClain is a pure blocker. We are relying on one back or the other to be the primary focus. We aren't really changing pace very often this year with our running game.

[Ravensfan23]

We actually have a much more efficient running game this year then last imo. Last year, we ran the ball much more, at almost 40 times a game, so that is where most of our yards came from. Lots of attempts meant we could average 3.5 yards a carry but still have 140 yards a game.

This year we are seeing a lot more exsplosive and bigger plays from the running game. Right now the Ravens are averaging 4.6 yards a carry and about 124 yards a game.

So i say NO we don't miss Jason Brown one bit. As for the gaurd play, well i just think we have played some great run stopping DTs that get good penetration at the line. The Williams guys in Minn. Vince Wilfork in NE.

I think the Minn game is the only game the Ravens actually struggled to run the ball. However we just kept beating on them and broke them down on the stretch. The main reason why u don't see the big rushing totals is Cam's decision to let Flacco air it out.

I think as we get deeper into late November and December we will see the Ravens running the ball more.

Although at this point in the season, i would like to see Yanda get more time at RG. I think the oine could be even better with him playing next to Oher.

[FerrariFan87]

I don't think so... Matt Birk is a Pro Bowl, veteran, cerebral Center and has great rapport with Joe, as is evidenced by his relatively big numbers. The running game is solid, but I would like to see less runs for loss... especially with the Squealers coming up.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='PuRock' date='03 November 2009 - 04:31 PM' timestamp='1257283865' post='272707']
And I agree with Franchise. Neal's absence was a huge loss. Especially since we could really utilize three backs with completely different styles. Without Neal, McClain is a pure blocker. We are relying on one back or the other to be the primary focus. We aren't really changing pace very often this year with our running game.
[/quote]

I don't think Lo Neal has anything to do with how our offense is going right now. We could very well use a 3 headed attack without Lo Neal, but with the way we are playing offense right now, where are the touches gonna come from. Right now all 3 of our RBs are average more then 4.2 ypc. Last year only Rice averaged 4.0 ypc or better. Right now our RBs are averaging 4.6 ypc, last season they struggled to average 4.0 ypc. So the running game isjust as good, if not better.

Imo the reason why McGahee and McClain aren't touching the ball as much this year, isn't because we don't have the personnel or we're missing Lo Neal or Brown, it's because we just don't have enough touches to go around right now. We are running the ball about 27 times a game this year, as opposed to the 40 times last year.

At 27 touches out of the running game, Rice has proven to be a playmaker that you want touching the ball atleast 15 times. That leaves only 12 more touches for McGahee and McClain. Not to mention that some of those number are off a bit because Flacco and Clayton are combining for about 3 rush attempts per game. So it's really like 24 times a game that we run the ball.


At this same time last year, thru the first 7 games, Flacco only attempted 191 passes. During that 7 game strecth, never in any game did Flacco have more pass attempts, then the RBs had rushing attempts.

This year Flacco has already passed 253 times, and we've attempted more pass attempts then run attempts in 5 out of 7 games. That is a complete turn around from last year.

Last season we ran the ball out of neccessity. We had to protect our rookie QB and young Oline, so we ran a lot. This year we run the ball just enough to keep people honest.

Last season we ran the ball about 37 times a game. Which meant, McClain could get 12-15 touches, McGahee could get 10-13, and Rice would get his 5-8 per game. Thats a lot of running.

However like i said, now we pretty much throw for first downs-Touchdowns, and use the run just to keep teams honest and get the ball in Rice's hand.

Also think about this. The Ravens had 8 games where we had big 4th quarter lead and decided to pretty much just run the ball the whole 4th quarter. This year, the only 2 games that we had a big enough 4th quarter leads to just run the clock out were the Browns and Broncos games. All our games have been pretty much close in the 4th quarter so that takes away some rush attempts.

So if anyone wants to know what has happend to our running game. It's simply in my book, 2 words sum it all up...........

Franchise Quarterback, and his name is Joe Flacco.

[XxSizzleXx]

Neal was a beast of a blocker and I would definately have to go with that reason. Don't forget though that McClain ran mostly all of last year, he will continue to improve into a GREAT FB. Neal has even told McClain that he has the potential to be better than him and one of the best ever.

[MKdave]

I think McClain misses Jason Brown. Our running game doesn't. Jason Brown was about as good a mauler as you'll see at centre. And that's the kind of guy McClain needs to be running behind. Because Rice is so nifty, he doesn't need a line that'll make a pile 3 yards down field, he wants guys that will give him holes to get through. That's what this line is more suited to.

[52Kia Kaha92]

of course we do. Brown will bowl people over and creat huge holes on running plays and i personally think letting him go was a mistake. He deservs 35 million over 5 years. He is a great player and the type of guy we need to man that line IMO.

Also Chris Chester is having a horrible season and is getting pushed around on both run and pass plays. Ray Rice is just playing amazing at the moment and is making this line look great.

[neepo13]

[quote name='52Kia Kaha92' date='03 November 2009 - 07:22 PM' timestamp='1257294178' post='272853']
of course we do. Brown will bowl people over and creat huge holes on running plays and i personally think letting him go was a mistake. He deservs 35 million over 5 years. He is a great player and the type of guy we need to man that line IMO.

Also Chris Chester is having a horrible season and is getting pushed around on both run and pass plays. Ray Rice is just playing amazing at the moment and is making this line look great.
[/quote]

Our pass protection has improved but it just seems like opposing DL's are getting more penetration in the backfield than they did last year. Maybe its Chester, idk. Which makes you wonder why Yanda isnt getting the start?

[BloodRaven]

Brown would be an upgrade over Chris Chester. How do you get demolished by the NFL's slowest linebacker Andra Davis?

[52Kia Kaha92]

[quote name='neepo13' date='03 November 2009 - 09:44 PM' timestamp='1257302671' post='272917']
Our pass protection has improved but it just seems like opposing DL's are getting more penetration in the backfield than they did last year. Maybe its Chester, idk. Which makes you wonder why Yanda isnt getting the start?
[/quote]

i really dont know why Yanda isnt starting. He is the better guard and was emerging as a top 5 guard last year. He is a mauling guard. I hope they start hims soon

[Ed_Reed_Pick_Six]

Ben Grubbs is playing well, my only real concern on the offensive line is Chester. He gave away multiple penalties against Denver didn't he?

[beetus]

Chris Chester is definately the weak point in the O-Line, I think Marshall Yanda is a better overall player a OG. Ben Gubbs IMO is one of the top 3 OGs in the league behind Hutchinson out of Minn and Snee out of NYG (Snee or O'Hara, I get them mixed up). We have beaten to death how impressive Gaither and Oher are, and really I haven't noticed that much a difference between Brown and Birk. Its a shame we couldn't keep Brown, he's only 26, but apparently more money from a terrible team is better than playing on a contender, go figure =P

[theFRANCHISE]

[quote name='52Kia Kaha92' date='04 November 2009 - 04:35 AM' timestamp='1257327315' post='273036']
i really dont know why Yanda isnt starting. He is the better guard and was emerging as a top 5 guard last year. He is a mauling guard. I hope they start hims soon
[/quote]
Yanda's a great guard -- not so great at right tackle, though. Stinks, because the guy was drafted for his versatility and ability to play both positions, and play them well. Guess not so much after he got hurt...

[20ravens52]

I think that Yanda isn't 100 percent recovered from his knee injury yet and that's why he isn't starting. They are just giving him extra time and hoping Chester can prove he was worthy of being a 2nd round pick, which will be a hard task.

And, yes I definitely agree about him being better than Chester.

[JEEPercreepermd]

I think Yanda is decent as a backup tackle,but not starting quality. I'd agree that he's a better guard than Chester though. Chester has played horrible, but then he played pretty good last season after Yanda went down so idk. Hopefully Yanda can get back to 100 percent and be the starter.

Another thing that I think is overlooked is that Adam Terry is out this year. He was never a great starting tackle, but he's huge and having him let Cam run the unbalanced packages a lot more.

[Ed_Reed_Pick_Six]

Is Yanda close to 100% yet? He must be getting there surely.

[BloodRaven]

Not really Yanda before the injury was better than Chester but thats no longer the case, Chester is good in some areas just not at anchoring.

Jason Brown could single handedly hold his ground against guys Shaun Rogers, Pat Williams, Haynesworth etc so his presence is missed in a way.

[Ed_Reed_Pick_Six]

[quote name='BloodRaven' date='05 November 2009 - 04:39 PM' timestamp='1257395946' post='273522']
Not really [b]Yanda before the injury was better than Chester but thats no longer the case[/b], Chester is good in some areas just not at anchoring.

Jason Brown could single handedly hold his ground against guys Shaun Rogers, Pat Williams, Haynesworth etc so his presence is missed in a way.
[/quote]
What leads you to that conclusion?

[neepo13]

[quote name='Ed_Reed_Pick_Six' date='04 November 2009 - 11:44 PM' timestamp='1257396263' post='273528']
What leads you to that conclusion?
[/quote]

I am curious about that as well. Yanda didnt play like an all pro at T, he didnt do horrible, just not impressive. But we havent seen Yanda at G this season. I dont know that playing T is harder than playing G but I do believe there is a difference in the two positions.

[Ed_Reed_Pick_Six]

[quote name='neepo13' date='05 November 2009 - 04:55 PM' timestamp='1257396904' post='273535']
I am curious about that as well. Yanda didnt play like an all pro at T, he didnt do horrible, just not impressive. [b]But we havent seen Yanda at G this season.[/b] I dont know that playing T is harder than playing G but I do believe there is a difference in the two positions.
[/quote]
Exactly - hence why that assessment that Chester is now better seems unfounded.

[BloodRaven]

Ive seen Yanda play better at G/T before the injury, he's clearly not 100%. So far Chester has played better than he's given credit for... now dont get me wrong he's still a liability in some areas and probably should be a TE, he's just playing a bit better right now.

Now granted it is harder to play tackle you still have to step up and play, I dont believe in complacency or lowering expectations.

[Mahatma_Sloth]

[quote name='neepo13' date='03 November 2009 - 01:52 PM' timestamp='1257281539' post='272686']
Granted our running game isnt horrible but we are seeing our backs have to shake off tacklers in the backfield much more than they had to last year. I am not the biggest McGahee suporter, I think he's a disappointment, but people have been calling him out because of his "dancing" in the back field and I am not really sure he deserves it. He cant hit a hole thats got a defender in it. It happens mostly on McGahee runs but we've seen it on more than a couple of Ray Rice runs as well. Whats the difference from last year to this year? Have our G's gotten worse? Do we miss Brown? Is it Lo Neal's absence?
[/quote]
i would have to argue that McGahee breaks and sheds tackles just as much if not more than Ray Rice.... he still has heaps of tallent(no pun intended) we need to use him more

[Marc2k6]

right now I do not see where anyone is missing Jason Brown.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Mahatma_Sloth' date='05 November 2009 - 06:46 AM' timestamp='1257421617' post='273598']
i would have to argue that McGahee breaks and sheds tackles just as much if not more than Ray Rice.... he still has heaps of tallent(no pun intended) we need to use him more
[/quote]

McGahee [i]breaks and sheds[/i] tackles only when he gets to the second level and that doesn't happen often. He dances too much in the hole. I do think he deserves at least 5 touches a game but with the way Rice had been running and catching the ball, I don't see why the team should take the ball away from him.

As for the running game as a whole, the absence of [b]Lorenzo Neal[/b] is #1 reason Cam can't pound the rock like he did last year. People like to bring up the "3-headed monster" from last year. People forget that both McGahee and Rice missed 4 games each and whenever McClain was pounding inside, it was Neal blasting LBs and opening up the holes.

I have a feeling Cam will run the ball more as the season wears on but fans need to forget about the running game we saw last year.

[Fred Sanford]

We don't miss Brown since we have Birk now, but we might in 2-4 years. Then again, Birk might be some Bruce Matthews, good into his late thirties if he can stay healthy.

We'll find a good center in the draft or move Chester to center, Yanda to guard. Chester's great at pulling but is built like a center. Yanda is better at guard than tackle, also a good pulling guard with more strength as a road grader than Chester.

[bauer77]

i believe our running game is still one of the best in the league IMO

[PuRock]

[quote name='Fred Sanford' date='08 November 2009 - 01:37 AM' timestamp='1257662237' post='275082']
We don't miss Brown since we have Birk now, but we might in 2-4 years. Then again, Birk might be some Bruce Matthews, good into his late thirties if he can stay healthy.

We'll find a good center in the draft or move Chester to center, Yanda to guard. Chester's great at pulling but is built like a center. Yanda is better at guard than tackle, also a good pulling guard with more strength as a road grader than Chester.
[/quote]

I'm hoping Birk coaches up Hale. They are of the same build and get along very well.

[Avon]

Birk is a great pass blocker but he is horrible at run blocking

every game he gets dominated by the other teams DTs

thats why we can't run the ball up the middle cause Birk sucks