The Facts Are On The Vid

[ZIBBY28]

[quote name='JEEPercreepermd' date='02 November 2009 - 07:35 PM' timestamp='1257208517' post='272078']
Let's let one be "the best SS ever" and the other be "the best FS ever" lol this debate is as pointless as Brady vs Manning
[/quote]
Manning, hands down.

wait, what?.. too far? my bad.

[Ed_Reed_Pick_Six]

I'd also say Manning, but that's another argument.

Darren Sharper with [i]another[/i] interception tonight.

[ZIBBY28]

[quote name='thewarden86' date='02 November 2009 - 09:29 PM' timestamp='1257215361' post='272162']
Troy is one inch shorter and seven pounds heavier. You figure it out from there.

Besides, it was a joke. Laugh a little; you'll live longer.
[/quote]
I bet Reed has a longer reach!!!! Ed taught Kimbo Slice everything he knows down there in the M.I.A.

i'd take my idol over either one of them though.
http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=tom+zbikowski+fight&hl=en&emb=0&aq=1&oq=tom+zbikows#

[Ed_Reed_Pick_Six]

Haha, ahh Zibby. I love our safeties.

[thewarden86]

[quote name='Ed_Reed_Pick_Six' date='03 November 2009 - 01:25 AM' timestamp='1257229504' post='272308']
I think most neutral fans will tell you Ed Reed is better. But please, continue to preach atheism in a church. Classifying anyone who goes on these stats as uninformed in these forums won't aid your argument either.

Or at least offer why we're wrong, rather than open-ended unsubstantiate assessments stating we're 'uninformed'
[/quote]

I did. But I'll reiterate just for you: STATS DO NOT TELL THE WHOLE STORY.

I also did a comparision of a few other damn good safeties, but you can't see anything through your purple glasses.

[ROH522155]

[quote name='thewarden86' date='03 November 2009 - 10:06 AM' timestamp='1257260782' post='272426']
I did. But I'll reiterate just for you: STATS DO NOT TELL THE WHOLE STORY.

I also did a comparision of a few other damn good safeties, but you can't see anything through your purple glasses.
[/quote]

Warden, you cannot win this argument. This is a Ravens message board and I think all Steeler fans know deep down who the better safety really is.

[Ed_Reed20]

I really don't think there's anyway to truly settle this debate. Even if several scout sat down and watched film on EVERY down Reed and Polamalu have ever played and took note of tackles, passes broken up, forced fumbles, fumble recoveries, blocked punts, blown coverages, missed assignments, missed tackles and every other compilable statistic, there would STILL be disagreements as to who the better player is.

Reed has obviously made more big plays during his career than Polamalu but Ed has also given up some TDs too. Polamalu has probably made more tackles but I've seen him miss many tackles too.

What we can all agree on though is that both of them will likely be HOFs when they're done and we're all lucky to be able to watch them operate.

[thewarden86]

[quote name='ravensorioleshoyas522155' date='03 November 2009 - 10:12 AM' timestamp='1257261178' post='272431']
Warden, you cannot win this argument. This is a Ravens message board and I think all Steeler fans know deep down who the better safety really is.
[/quote]

No YOU cannot win this argument because I will never concede. And yes, we are on a Ravens forum so why don't you take your argument to a few neutral forums and see what happens.

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' date='03 November 2009 - 10:17 AM' timestamp='1257261474' post='272436']
[b]I really don't think there's anyway to truly settle this debate.[/b] Even if several scout sat down and watched film on EVERY down Reed and Polamalu have ever played and took note of tackles, passes broken up, forced fumbles, fumble recoveries, blocked punts, blown coverages, missed assignments, missed tackles and every other compilable statistic, there would STILL be disagreements as to who the better player is.

Reed has obviously made more big plays during his career than Polamalu but Ed has also given up some TDs too. Polamalu has probably made more tackles but I've seen him miss many tackles too.

[b]What we can all agree on though is that both of them will likely be HOFs when they're done and we're all lucky to be able to watch them operate.[/b]
[/quote]


That was basically what I stated in my first post to this thread.

...and I agree.

[BloodRaven]

[quote name='thewarden86' date='03 November 2009 - 11:39 AM' timestamp='1257266365' post='272481']
No YOU cannot win this argument because I will never concede. And yes, we are on a Ravens forum so why don't you take your argument to a few neutral forums and see what happens.
[/quote]

Yes lets go to a neutral forum, you go wait for us there and we'll be there in a sec.

[ROH522155]

[quote name='thewarden86' date='03 November 2009 - 11:39 AM' timestamp='1257266365' post='272481']
No YOU cannot win this argument because I will never concede. And yes, we are on a Ravens forum so why don't you take your argument to a few neutral forums and see what happens.




That was basically what I stated in my first post to this thread.

...and I agree.
[/quote]


ok im going to head over to....hmmm.....how about the 49ers forum? Yes I'll be on the 9ers forum.

no check that Im going to the Packers. Dont want any USC bias from the 9ers fans

[BloodRaven]

You should have said the Orioles forum... you know the [b]Left out[/b]field section...

[ROH522155]

I am now making my account on Packerforum.com

[ROH522155]

its not sending me the confirmation email

[noy]

[quote name='thewarden86' date='03 November 2009 - 10:06 AM' timestamp='1257260782' post='272426']
I did. But I'll reiterate just for you: STATS DO NOT TELL THE WHOLE STORY.

I also did a comparision of a few other damn good safeties, but you can't see anything through your purple glasses.
[/quote]

Last year I would be on Reed's side of the fence, but after watching Troy more and more...he literally scares the crap out of me. He hits big, he's probably the fastest safety in the league, and his instincts keep..IMPROVING. The fact that the Steelers defense was not the same in his absence explains everything.

People looking solely at the stats are only reading half of the story. Fact is, there are other aspects that come into play when comparing the two players. How does each defense use each player? For example, Troy blitzes a lot more, therefore reducing his chances for a pick, while Ed hangs back and is allowed to ball hawk.

You could easily say that the situation in which each player makes a play should be used in the argument of comparison. In this case Troy actually has a better standing. Why? Troy has a couple Superbowl rings and Reed doesn't.

People saying Reed "leaves Troy in the dust" are seriously delusional. Are those same people not going to be thinking about where Polamalu is on the field when Flacco throws over the middle? That type of fear isn't earned by being an average player, or even a good player (ex. Brian Dawkins is a good safety, but does he strike fear into the passing game? IMO no). Any safety that consistently affects a whole teams game plan is a HOF contender by default. And that's what you people are trying to do, compare two future HOF players...it just isn't possible.

[griever]

[quote name='ravensorioleshoyas522155' date='03 November 2009 - 10:12 AM' timestamp='1257261178' post='272431']
Warden, you cannot win this argument. This is a Ravens message board and I think all Steeler fans know deep down who the better safety really is.
[/quote]

Troy;-)

I would take either safety, seeing as they are both tops, but seeing as I am a Steelers fan, I would take Troy. Now if I could get both on the same team then....lol

[McBoller]

wow, that video sucks with no sound...

and the thing about Reed being on pace to set the all time INT record...uh, yeah, thats not happening, not even close.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='noy' date='03 November 2009 - 01:39 PM' timestamp='1257273598' post='272580']
Last year I would be on Reed's side of the fence, but after watching Troy more and more...he literally scares the crap out of me. He hits big, he's probably the fastest safety in the league, and his instincts keep..IMPROVING. The fact that the Steelers defense was not the same in his absence explains everything.

People looking solely at the stats are only reading half of the story. Fact is, there are other aspects that come into play when comparing the two players. How does each defense use each player? For example, Troy blitzes a lot more, therefore reducing his chances for a pick, while Ed hangs back and is allowed to ball hawk.

[b]You could easily say that the situation in which each player makes a play should be used in the argument of comparison. In this case Troy actually has a better standing. Why? Troy has a couple Superbowl rings and Reed doesn't. [/b]

People saying Reed "leaves Troy in the dust" are seriously delusional. Are those same people not going to be thinking about where Polamalu is on the field when Flacco throws over the middle? That type of fear isn't earned by being an average player, or even a good player (ex. Brian Dawkins is a good safety, but does he strike fear into the passing game? IMO no). Any safety that consistently affects a whole teams game plan is a HOF contender by default. And that's what you people are trying to do, compare two future HOF players...it just isn't possible.
[/quote]

You made good points but this is where you lost me. I can understand Super Bowl rings used as a measurer of success for QBs. I don't think you can do that with safeties.

[ROH522155]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' date='03 November 2009 - 02:17 PM' timestamp='1257275853' post='272619']
You made good points but this is where you lost me. I can understand Super Bowl rings used as a measurer of success for QBs. I don't think you can do that with safeties.
[/quote]

I agree.

[tgo82]

I agree that both players are really great. But I'm more biased to Ed Reed. I clearly don't understand why he didn't win defensive player of the year over James Harrison. Palo is great but I think Reed has always been better.

[WinnipegRaven]

Put this to rest already. They are both great players and obvious first ballot HOFers. Cant it just be said that they are both 2 of the greatest players to ever grace a football field?
Gotta admit though, Troy gotta big -1 for doing those pathetic Head and Shoulders commercials.

[thewarden86]

And another thing: Manning > Brady.

lol

[thewarden86]

And another thing: Manning > Brady.

lol

[RavensAllTheWay]

[quote name='ZIBBY28' date='02 November 2009 - 07:43 PM' timestamp='1257205380' post='272041']
oh shoot son.. prophet brought his A game to this thread and is breaking out the heavy artillery.

this debate is endless. very few Ravens fans will say Troy is better. very few Steelers fans will say Reed is better. the rest of the world is basically split 50/50. you cant try and pull the injury card either because Troy's injury history consists of freak plays that just happen from being around the ball so much... i think they're simply two great players in different systems that are asked to do different things.
[/quote]
Were all biased, there's no question about that. But even so, I just don't see the arguments that favor Troy. Reed is the king of INTs and INTs returned for TDs.

[thewarden86]

[quote name='RavensAllTheWay' date='03 November 2009 - 04:04 PM' timestamp='1257282245' post='272693']
Were all biased, there's no question about that. But even so, [b]I just don't see the arguments that favor Troy. Reed is the king of INTs and INTs returned for TDs.
[/b][/quote]


There is no shortage of debate on all the previous pages. I don't think anyone is really arguing that Reed can pick it and take it to the house.

[noy]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' date='03 November 2009 - 02:17 PM' timestamp='1257275853' post='272619']
You made good points but this is where you lost me. I can understand Super Bowl rings used as a measurer of success for QBs. I don't think you can do that with safeties.
[/quote]

Well, what I was trying to say was that Troy has made all the right plays during the right times that put them in the position to win games. So many plays I see him behind the line of scrimmage, sometimes before the ball is handed off. He makes great tackles, key interceptions and blows up blockers. While Ed is the much better ballhawk, Troy is a more rounded safety, making plays that aren't just interceptions.

Don't get me wrong, I know Ed Reed has his moments of causing fumbles (ahem) and pass deflections, but I'm not trying to say one is better than the other, remember. That's why I could keep on going, because they both have so many positives.

But Troy is definitely in Reed's league, not the "barely there" people are referring to.

[quote name='WinnipegRaven' date='03 November 2009 - 03:10 PM' timestamp='1257279037' post='272662']
Gotta admit though, Troy gotta big -1 for doing those pathetic Head and Shoulders commercials.
[/quote]

WHAT!? I thought those commercials were the funniest thing. The locker room is the best. Troy seems like a really chill guy to do that sort of thing.

"Didn't you...."

[thewarden86]

[quote name='noy' date='03 November 2009 - 05:33 PM' timestamp='1257287583' post='272758']
Well, what I was trying to say was that Troy has made all the right plays during the right times that put them in the position to win games. So many plays I see him behind the line of scrimmage, sometimes before the ball is handed off. He makes great tackles, key interceptions and blows up blockers. While Ed is the much better ballhawk, Troy is a more rounded safety, making plays that aren't just interceptions.

Don't get me wrong, I know Ed Reed has his moments of causing fumbles (ahem) and pass deflections, but I'm not trying to say one is better than the other, remember. That's why I could keep on going, because they both have so many positives.

But Troy is definitely in Reed's league, not the "barely there" people are referring to.

[/quote]


This is basically the same argument I and Prophet have been making, but this time from the honest perspective of a Ravens fan. Kudos.

[ROH522155]

[quote name='thewarden86' date='03 November 2009 - 05:59 PM' timestamp='1257289178' post='272779']
This is basically the same argument I and Prophet have been making, but this time from the honest perspective of a Ravens fan. Kudos.
[/quote]

Honestly, I think Ed is better

[thewarden86]

[quote name='ravensorioleshoyas522155' date='03 November 2009 - 06:06 PM' timestamp='1257289589' post='272785']
Honestly, I think Ed is better [img]http://boards.baltimoreravens.com/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif[/img] [img]http://boards.baltimoreravens.com/public/style_emoticons/default/baltimore-ravens.gif[/img]
[/quote]


Ya don't say. Thank you. I was confused as to where you stood on this issue. [img]http://boards.baltimoreravens.com/public/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif[/img]

[Ed_Reed_Pick_Six]

[quote name='thewarden86' date='04 November 2009 - 10:59 AM' timestamp='1257289178' post='272779']
This is basically the same argument I and Prophet have been making, but this time from the honest perspective of a Ravens fan. Kudos.
[/quote]
Yes but your argument fails to acknowledge that Ed Reed no longer makes those plays at the line because of his neck injury. It makes no sense to risk him there when he is the premier ballhawk in the secondary.

I guess what I'm saying is Ed can make those plays that Troy does when healthy, but Troy will never have the same instinctiveness in coverage. Therefore, Reed is the better safety.

[thewarden86]

[quote name='Ed_Reed_Pick_Six' date='03 November 2009 - 06:31 PM' timestamp='1257291072' post='272811']
Yes but your argument fails to acknowledge that Ed Reed no longer makes those plays at the line because of his neck injury. It makes no sense to risk him there when he is the premier ballhawk in the secondary.

I guess what I'm saying is Ed can make those plays that Troy does when healthy, but Troy will never have the same instinctiveness in coverage. Therefore, Reed is the better safety.
[/quote]


That entire post is speculative garbage.