The Facts Are On The Vid

[20ravens52]

I am sick and tried of people saying Troy is better than Ed. It has been going on for some time. The only thing he has that Ed doesn't have is a Ring. Polamalu is great no doubt but Ed Reed is better. Just thought I'd share the video.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htfHf6vbUng
Face the facts. The only Safety on the same level as Reed was Ronnie Lott.

[ravensfan160]

The constant debate about this is getting a tad annoying. I wish everyone could just agree that they are both fantastic safeties that can do it all but are asked to do different things. Ed can play strong safety like he did his first 2 or 3 years in the league but he is a free safety now. Troy is a strong safety and therefore much more active along the line of scrimmage and his stats reflect that (sacks, tackles).

[Ed_Reed20]

Not only do they play two different positions now, both men are different players. Reed makes the majority of his plays seemingly on instinct alone. Earlier in his career, when he was around the line of scrimmage more, he made a ton of plays too. However, he still makes plays despite usually lining up 20 yards off the ball.

Polamalu uses his incredible athleticism and aggressiveness to make plays. However, I don't think he's quite the ball-hawk Reed is.

[RavensAllTheWay]

Ed Reed is the best safety in the league no questions asked. Sure Polamalu is a better leader, he's more intense and he's more respected around the league. (which is really saying something cuz Reed is well respected also.) But come on now, 107 and 108 yd int returns for TDs? Polamalu can't do any of that, only Reed.

Also to all those people (steeler fans mostly) who say he's soft can shut the f**k up. The hit on Moreno yesterday was vicious, he makes plays all over the field and he never misses games unlike Polamaloser.

Overall, Reed is just a better player with more knowledge and more playmaking ability than any other safety in the league today.

[SteelersProphet]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' date='02 November 2009 - 03:30 PM' timestamp='1257193839' post='271859']
Not only do they play two different positions now, both men are different players. Reed makes the majority of his plays seemingly on instinct alone. Earlier in his career, when he was around the line of scrimmage more, he made a ton of plays too. However, he still makes plays despite usually lining up 20 yards off the ball.

Polamalu uses his incredible athleticism and aggressiveness to make plays. However, I don't think he's quite the ball-hawk Reed is.
[/quote]


Troy doesnt have as many chances for pics because of how we use him.....but the pics he gets are pure art

and troy can run them back as well....as you know

to say troy doesnt use instincts is wrong....he guesses the play all the time......watch the goal line stand in the vikings game for proof of his instincts

[thewarden86]

[img]http://boards.baltimoreravens.com/public/style_emoticons/default/34853_shakehead.GIF[/img] Same old laaaame debate. We are never going to agree so why even bother bringing it up?

[beetus]

I agree that the debate is getting old. They are two teriffic players, they are the best at what they do. Can Ed play the 8th man in the box and lay a monster hit? Yes. Can Troy make a great pick and return it the distance? Yes. Are they better than one another at their respective roles? Yes. I think Ed is a future HoF, Troy, I'm not so sure however.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='STEELERS PROPHET268' date='02 November 2009 - 03:42 PM' timestamp='1257194556' post='271874']
Troy doesnt have as many chances for pics because of how we use him.....but the pics he gets are pure art

and troy can run them back as well....as you know

to say troy doesnt use instincts is wrong....he guesses the play all the time......watch the goal line stand in the vikings game for proof of his instincts
[/quote]

Troy has 2 interceptions returns for TDs in his career. So he isn't that good running them back.

I never said Troy doesn't use instincts to make plays. He's a smart safety and has great instincts. However, Reed has made far more plays on instinct in his career.

[ROH522155]

I wish we could just have a poll where one fan from every team besides the Steelers and Ravens vote on this. Obviously, we are going to be biased.


Oh and its definitely Ed Reed!

[SteelersProphet]

[b]Troy has 2 interceptions returns for TDs in his career.[/b]

In the regular season


[b]Reed has made far more plays on instinct in his career.[/b]

Like anyone could ever know that

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='STEELERS PROPHET268' date='02 November 2009 - 03:59 PM' timestamp='1257195596' post='271898']
[b]Troy has 2 interceptions returns for TDs in his career.[/b]

In the regular season
[/quote]

He has one in the regular season and one in the post-season.

[quote name='STEELERS PROPHET268' date='02 November 2009 - 03:59 PM' timestamp='1257195596' post='271898']
[b]Reed has made far more plays on instinct in his career.[/b]

Like anyone could ever know that
[/quote]

What?

[McBoller]

I think what Troy lacks in knowledge, he makes up for in insanely, ridiculously crazy athletic talent and ability. He's had probably the two most epic INTs Ive ever seen.

At the same time, what Reed lacks in physical aggressiveness due to his injury he makes up for in leadership, football instincts, and general knowledge of the game.


Id say its a dead draw as to who is better at their respective position and when its all said and done they will BOTH be in the HOF without a doubt.

[McBoller]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' date='02 November 2009 - 03:47 PM' timestamp='1257194867' post='271881']
Troy has 2 interceptions returns for TDs in his career. So he isn't that good running them back.

I never said Troy doesn't use instincts to make plays. He's a smart safety and has great instincts. However, Reed has made far more plays on instinct in his career.
[/quote]
I hate to defend the Steelers, but I think theres a good explanation for why troy has less return TDs.First theres the matter of the extra year Reed has been in the league. Then you have to deael with the position they play, like everyone always says. Reed plays FS, hes way back there in center field just watching and waiting. Most of his INTs simple fall right into his hands b/c of overthrows. Yet other INTs, like the pick6 in the cincy game are instinctual ones where he jumps a route. Still hes lurking, watching, and waiting and usually getting a running start on his return.
Troy on the other hand rarely just sits back and waits for the ball to come to him. He plays somwhere between the line and the linebackers on most plays. He snags deflections 2" of the ground with a fingertip. Outjumps a much taller receiver, leaning almost entirely backward to make a one-handed grab, and all other sorts of spectacular things to get his INTs. When that type of thing happens he's either diving to the ground or immediately tackled after that kind of pick.
To sum it up: Reed gets picks because he knows where the ball is going to be. Troy gets picks because he gets where the ball is.

that make any sense?

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='McBoller' date='02 November 2009 - 04:23 PM' timestamp='1257197015' post='271935']
I hate to defend the Steelers, but I think theres a good explanation for why troy has less return TDs.First theres the matter of the extra year Reed has been in the league. Then you have to deael with the position they play, like everyone always says. Reed plays FS, hes way back there in center field just watching and waiting. [b]Most of his INTs simple fall right into his hands b/c of overthrows.[/b] Yet other INTs, like the pick6 in the cincy game are instinctual ones where he jumps a route. Still hes lurking, watching, and waiting and usually getting a running start on his return.
Troy on the other hand rarely just sits back and waits for the ball to come to him. He plays somwhere between the line and the linebackers on most plays. He snags deflections 2" of the ground with a fingertip. Outjumps a much taller receiver, leaning almost entirely backward to make a one-handed grab, and all other sorts of spectacular things to get his INTs. When that type of thing happens he's either diving to the ground or immediately tackled after that kind of pick.
To sum it up: Reed gets picks because he knows where the ball is going to be. Troy gets picks because he gets where the ball is.

that make any sense?
[/quote]

That's where I disagree. Reed has gotten a few interceptions off overthrown balls but give him credit for tracking the ball down and coming up with it. They aren't as easy they look.

However, you made a good argument.

[admartian]

Both are awesome safeties asked to do different things. If the roles were reversed, I'm sure either Reed and Polamalu could do each others jobs adequately and probably excel at it.

Would love to have either in my team - and to have both would be insane.

[McBoller]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' date='02 November 2009 - 04:30 PM' timestamp='1257197454' post='271944']
That's where I disagree. Reed has gotten a few interceptions off overthrown balls but give him credit for tracking the ball down and coming up with it. They aren't as easy they look.

However, you made a good argument.
[/quote]
ok, i messed up when I said "most," but you get the idea.

[McBoller]

wow, just did a little more stat-checking. Reed is only 271 yards away from bearking Rod Woodsons all-time return yards record. Seriously, we still play the lions and raiders, he could do that this season, hahahaha.

[dethdude420]

Why do people keep making the same threads over and over again just to see people type the same thing?

[McBoller]

[quote name='dethdude420' date='02 November 2009 - 04:51 PM' timestamp='1257198714' post='271972']
Why do people keep making the same threads over and over again just to see people type the same thing?
[/quote]
boost the post-count dude. Quality posts are hard to come by around here. Im on a couple other automotive forums where I have over 10,000 posts in about the same amount of time Ive been on this board...

Theres just not as much to talk about, lol.

[dethdude420]

[quote name='McBoller' date='02 November 2009 - 04:54 PM' timestamp='1257198888' post='271974']
boost the post-count dude. Quality posts are hard to come by around here. Im on a couple other automotive forums where I have over 10,000 posts in about the same amount of time Ive been on this board...

Theres just not as much to talk about, lol.
[/quote]
I shoulda figured as much, cause seriously I've seen this topic before..... recently. I'm surprised it hasn't been merged (yet)

[darklight1216]

[quote name='thewarden86' date='02 November 2009 - 03:46 PM' timestamp='1257194803' post='271878']
[img]http://boards.baltimoreravens.com/public/style_emoticons/default/34853_shakehead.GIF[/img] Same old laaaame debate. We are never going to agree so [b]why even bother bringing it up?[/b]
[/quote]
Why do we talk about Ravens players on the Ravens message board? O.o

[quote name='McBoller' date='02 November 2009 - 04:23 PM' timestamp='1257197015' post='271935']
I hate to defend the Steelers, but I think theres a good explanation for why troy has less return TDs.First theres the matter of the extra year Reed has been in the league.[/quote]
Ed Reed had more interceptions in his first three years than Troy has had in his 6+ years. He also had as many int-tds in his first three years as Troy has had in his entire career.

If the difference between their interceptions was half a dozen, then that one year would be a factor, but Ed Reed leaves Troy Polamalu in the dust when it comes to interceptions.
[quote]Then you have to deael with the position they play, like everyone always says. Reed plays FS, hes way back there in center field just watching and waiting. Most of his INTs simple fall right into his hands b/c of overthrows. Yet other INTs, like the pick6 in the cincy game are instinctual ones where he jumps a route. Still hes lurking, watching, and waiting and usually getting a running start on his return.[/quote]
As others have pointed out, Ed Reed used to play strong safety and he averaged 7 picks per year.
I disagree with the notion that "most of his ints fall right into his hands." You don't lead the league in interceptions (since 2002) because you just happened to be in the right place. People don't gameplan against Reed because he's just hanging around back there waiting for the ball to fall into his hands.

Don't minimalize his return yards because he's in the backfield. Every team has players that are in the backfield.

Ed Reed is one of only 9 players in NFL history to have over 1,000 yards on int returns. If it were as easy as waiting for the ball to drop in one's hands, there would be more than just a handful of players.

Fun fact: Six of those players are in the Hall of Fame, the other three are Deion Sanders, Darren Sharper, and Ed Reed.
[quote]
Troy on the other hand rarely just sits back and waits for the ball to come to him. He plays somwhere between the line and the linebackers on most plays. He snags deflections 2" of the ground with a fingertip. Outjumps a much taller receiver, leaning almost entirely backward to make a one-handed grab, and all other sorts of spectacular things to get his INTs. When that type of thing happens he's either diving to the ground or immediately tackled after that kind of pick.[/quote]
You think Ed Reed has never made those types of grabs? The 106 yard int-td (nfl record) was made on the tips of Reeds fingers; in the playoff game against the Colts, he jumped like 10 feet in the air to pick Manning, and he's snatched the ball from in front of receivers plenty of times.

Troy has made some great plays, and I'm not trying to take that from him, but his spectacular ints stick out because he doesn't get that all that many of them (and neither do most players). Ed Reed's plays are really starting to be taken for granted. Maybe if he got fewer picks his own fans would remember just how special they are.

[SteelersProphet]

[quote name='darklight1216' date='02 November 2009 - 06:24 PM' timestamp='1257204260' post='272029']


You think Ed Reed has never made those types of grabs? The 106 yard int-td (nfl record) was made on the tips of Reeds fingers; in the playoff game against the Colts, he jumped like 10 feet in the air to pick Manning, and he's snatched the ball from in front of receivers plenty of times.

Troy has made some great plays, and I'm not trying to take that from him, but his spectacular ints stick out because he doesn't get that all that many of them (and neither do most players). Ed Reed's plays are really starting to be taken for granted. Maybe if he got fewer picks his own fans would remember just how special they are.
[/quote]

Your saying troys pics only stand out because he gets so few

take a look


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZ11F8pOnqg (55 Seconds)-for best view

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kqj9j4jne8Y (30 Seconds)-for best view

And of course

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnJwAvvUTc8

[ZIBBY28]

[quote name='STEELERS PROPHET268' date='02 November 2009 - 06:36 PM' timestamp='1257205006' post='272036']
Your saying troys pics only stand out because he gets so few

take a look


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZ11F8pOnqg (58 Seconds)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kqj9j4jne8Y (30 Seconds)

And of course

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnJwAvvUTc8
[/quote]
oh shoot son.. prophet brought his A game to this thread and is breaking out the heavy artillery.

this debate is endless. very few Ravens fans will say Troy is better. very few Steelers fans will say Reed is better. the rest of the world is basically split 50/50. you cant try and pull the injury card either because Troy's injury history consists of freak plays that just happen from being around the ball so much... i think they're simply two great players in different systems that are asked to do different things.

[SteelersProphet]

[quote name='ZIBBY28' date='02 November 2009 - 06:43 PM' timestamp='1257205380' post='272041']
oh shoot son.. prophet brought his A game to this thread and is breaking out the heavy artillery.

this debate is endless. very few Ravens fans will say Troy is better. very few Steelers fans will say Reed is better. the rest of the world is basically split 50/50. you cant try and pull the injury card either because Troy's injury history consists of freak plays that just happen from being around the ball so much... i think they're simply two great players in different systems that are asked to do different things.
[/quote]

i would say the same thing

[ROH522155]

[quote name='ZIBBY28' date='02 November 2009 - 06:43 PM' timestamp='1257205380' post='272041']
oh shoot son.. prophet brought his A game to this thread and is breaking out the heavy artillery.

this debate is endless. very few Ravens fans will say Troy is better. very few Steelers fans will say Reed is better. the rest of the world is basically split 50/50. you cant try and pull the injury card either because Troy's injury history consists of freak plays that just happen from being around the ball so much... i think they're simply two great players in different systems that are asked to do different things.
[/quote]


Im actually willing to bet that most non-Steeler fans would say Ed Reed is the better safety

[Ed_Reed_Pick_Six]

[quote name='thewarden86' date='03 November 2009 - 08:46 AM' timestamp='1257194803' post='271878']
[img]http://boards.baltimoreravens.com/public/style_emoticons/default/34853_shakehead.GIF[/img] Same old laaaame debate. We are never going to agree so why even bother bringing it up?
[/quote]
Lol, what's to debate? As the video indicates, there is no argument. That doesn't make Polamalu bad or anything.

[SteelersProphet]

and then there are these plays

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrfoHUaKUZw

[Ed_Reed_Pick_Six]

No-one is saying Polamalu isn't an excellent player.

It's just the statistics prove Ed Reed has produced better numbers across his career.

[ROH522155]

[quote name='STEELERS PROPHET268' date='02 November 2009 - 06:58 PM' timestamp='1257206296' post='272050']
and then there are these plays

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrfoHUaKUZw
[/quote]
Prophet you can keep posting videos but the stats in the Reed video dont lie.

[flynismo]

[quote name='thewarden86' date='02 November 2009 - 04:46 PM' timestamp='1257194803' post='271878']
[img]http://boards.baltimoreravens.com/public/style_emoticons/default/34853_shakehead.GIF[/img] Same old laaaame debate. We are never going to agree so why even bother bringing it up?
[/quote]


Ok, but who'd win in a fight between Reed and Hairball?