If Our Defense Gets Burned

[BMOREHAWAII]

I pray changes have been made during our bye week. But what i want to know is if there isnt any changes,and what has been happening to us during the past games (unable to finish) like our Bengals game, and the Vikings last drive,continue to happen, will there be anarchy toward Harbaugh? Because ultimately he is the captain of the ship and he can say what goes. And i honestly wouldn't know how to feel or even re-act if i see Chris Carr and Frank Walker starting over guys who want to be there regardless of giving up big plays like what Washington did. Weve seen Walker mess up royally during our visit to Minn. and Carr giving up on plays, especially on Palmers TD pass but still we continue to see these guys on the field. With our depth youd think we could make better personnel changes out there. Landry, sure he had 2 int's but he looks gunshy, and its obvious to anyone that he's hesitant to pull the trigger. But we have guys like Zbi and Nakamura out there who we could switch out. What im saying is ultimately in the end Harbaugh has the power to make changes to our team, if it doesnt happen and our defense gets burned against the Broncos...What can us as fans be done? Because im sure as most other fans like myself, id love for my voice to be heard.

[ravensfolife]

[quote name='BMOREHAWAII' date='30 October 2009 - 09:57 PM' timestamp='1256954260' post='268629']
I pray changes have been made during our bye week. But what i want to know is if there isnt any changes,and what has been happening to us during the past games (unable to finish) like our Bengals game, and the Vikings last drive,continue to happen, will there be anarchy toward Harbaugh? Because ultimately he is the captain of the ship and he can say what goes. And i honestly wouldn't know how to feel or even re-act if i see Chris Carr and Frank Walker starting over guys who want to be there regardless of giving up big plays like what Washington did. Weve seen Walker mess up royally during our visit to Minn. and Carr giving up on plays, especially on Palmers TD pass but still we continue to see these guys on the field. With our depth youd think we could make better personnel changes out there. Landry, sure he had 2 int's but he looks gunshy, and its obvious to anyone that he's hesitant to pull the trigger. But we have guys like Zbi and Nakamura out there who we could switch out. What im saying is ultimately in the end Harbaugh has the power to make changes to our team, if it doesnt happen and our defense gets burned against the Broncos...What can us as fans be done? Because im sure as most other fans like myself, id love for my voice to be heard.
[/quote]
Calm down, these guys here believe Harbs is the second coming. Between me and you they all will be mad if it happens

[Shawn`]

We'll protest, that's what we'll do!
[img]http://cowboyblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/browns.jpg[/img]

[Sizzle]

As a fan i have a motto i go by (I just made it up) "Shut the hell up, atleast you are not the Redskins" All jokes aside we really need to stop these extreme crap. blaming the corner, the pass rush, Harbough, mattison.... etc is fine but Its getting pretty old. If people freak out after 3 loses what are you gonna do if we go on a 7 or 9 game losing game streak?

The other thing thats pissing me off is people acting like they can coach the team. I dont really mind people saying we gotta get better at this or that, but talking like they know it all is really stupid. The Coaches want this team to win games just like you and they are actually qualified to see who fits in THEIR game plan. Calling out random names like NAKAMURA cause he sounds like he can Karate kick someone or Zibi who might knock out someone and another one ive been hearing alot Barns just cause he's fast bla bla bla keeps going.

[RavensClaw52]

Unfortunately, part of my dream last night included, for some odd reason, halftime highlights and they were beating us 28-17. I dreamed last year that the steelers beat us 110-30 but that deffinatly wasnt true so idk, am I nervous about the defense yes, because everytime they say "oh ya we are correcting our mistakes so we dont make the same ones next week", well I dont see it and it worries me but we'll see.

[flynismo]

[quote name='ravensfolife' date='30 October 2009 - 10:50 PM' timestamp='1256957409' post='268641']
Calm down, these guys here believe Harbs is the second coming. Between me and you they all will be mad if it happens
[/quote]

nah, most of us don't think he's the second coming. We just don't have an unreasonable agenda against him.

[BMOREHAWAII]

[quote name='Shawn`' date='30 October 2009 - 04:52 PM' timestamp='1256957531' post='268642']
We'll protest, that's what we'll do!
[img]http://cowboyblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/browns.jpg[/img]
[/quote]
Now thats funny!

[quote name='Sizzle' date='30 October 2009 - 04:52 PM' timestamp='1256957531' post='268642']
The other thing thats pissing me off is people acting like they can coach the team. I dont really mind people saying we gotta get better at this or that, but talking like they know it all is really stupid. The Coaches want this team to win games just like you and they are actually qualified to see who fits in THEIR game plan. Calling out random names like NAKAMURA cause he sounds like he can Karate kick someone or Zibi who might knock out someone and another one ive been hearing alot Barns just cause he's fast bla bla bla keeps going.
[/quote]
Nowhere did i say that i know how to coach or whats best for the team this isn't madden. If you were Harbaugh would you start Walker/Carr over Washington? Im stating my opinion in where our team was know for a stout defense,and now arent feared by even Brodie Croyler. I guess your a pro-Chris Carr/Frank Walker type of guy if youd like them in there.

[i]<Mod Note: Watch it with the veiled profanity, including acronyms>[/i]

we were contenders for the Lambardi last year and looked like nothing but improvement this year. I could really care less about the Skins, they werent in the playoffs last year so you can keep your motto to yourself. Now that we have that aside...

[ravens1977]

[quote name='Shawn`' date='30 October 2009 - 10:52 PM' timestamp='1256957531' post='268642']
We'll protest, that's what we'll do!
[img]http://cowboyblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/browns.jpg[/img]
[/quote]
LMAO! That pic is great. Less carbs next time, tubby

[edreedfromtheu]

I don't know what will happen. Less fans might be coming to games. They'll sell their tickets on e-bay if the Ravens fall far enough behind the Steelers and Bengals that the playoffs are pretty much out of grasp. And that means more Steelers fans will flood into M&T Bank Stadium.

But I am really tired of hearing that the Ravens couldn't finish. They got CHEATED by the officials. Is our defense what it was in years past? NO! NOT EVEN CLOSE! But in the Bengals game... that game should have been OVER. The officials cheated us on both the Ray Lewis hit that was NOT helmet to helmet, and also on the Frank Walker "interference" that they didn't even initially call on him... they called it on Ed Reed. Their numbers are not even similar. The Patriots game... roughing the passer. There were others, but it was so long ago I already forgot. The Vikings game... ugh, so many things. Taking back flags they initially threw on Vikings for things like block in the back.

Were the Ravens in the game all 3 instances until the very end? Pretty much. But I can't say they have a problem finishing games, when all 3 games have horrible calls that really hurt the Ravens.

[hammer]

Wow, did I miss the game and our D got burned? Did anyone get the score too? What if our D doesn't get burned? That's a theoretical possibiity too.

Even with the recent trend of losing close games. Good teams find a way to win. This is actually what has happened the last three weeks. The Ravens couldn't find a way to win.

The Ravens were in position to win all three of those games, and 95 out of 100 games they ACTUALLY WOULD have won the Vikings game on the missed kick.

The ONLY one of the three games that the Ravens SHOULDN'T and DIDN'T DESERVE TO WIN was against the Bengals. Butthey were in position to win that one too.

The Ravens don't really need to play a LOT better to win, they actually need to play just a LITTLE better.

Things actually are not as bad as we think and I am objectively picking the Ravens to upset the Broncos.

[D-Rey]

I'm hoping that with the bye week, some kinks in our defense got worked out. I'm hoping our defense plays like years past, and our offense plays like they have. If we can blow them out, that would send a message.

[Slim]

Why do people always have that negative attitude, if the players were having the same attitude, which means, not seeing positive just because we're on a losing streak, we would just keep on losing ! That's another game, we gotta look positive and instead of asking if our defense gets burned, let's say what if Ray Rice takes off Dawkins helmet ! We're gonna smash those Broncos in the mouth ! they don't play like ravens, and McDaniels is gonna stop thinkin he's the best young coach ever ! Harbs is !!!

LETS GO RAVENSSSSS AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH !!!!!!!!!!!

[T-Sizzle55]

[quote name='BMOREHAWAII' date='30 October 2009 - 09:57 PM' timestamp='1256954260' post='268629']
I pray changes have been made during our bye week. But what i want to know is if there isnt any changes,and what has been happening to us during the past games (unable to finish) like our Bengals game, and the Vikings last drive,continue to happen, will there be anarchy toward Harbaugh? Because ultimately he is the captain of the ship and he can say what goes. And i honestly wouldn't know how to feel or even re-act if i see Chris Carr and Frank Walker starting over guys who want to be there regardless of giving up big plays like what Washington did. Weve seen Walker mess up royally during our visit to Minn. and Carr giving up on plays, especially on Palmers TD pass but still we continue to see these guys on the field. With our depth youd think we could make better personnel changes out there. Landry, sure he had 2 int's but he looks gunshy, and its obvious to anyone that he's hesitant to pull the trigger. But we have guys like Zbi and Nakamura out there who we could switch out. What im saying is ultimately in the end Harbaugh has the power to make changes to our team, if it doesnt happen and our defense gets burned against the Broncos...What can us as fans be done? Because im sure as most other fans like myself, id love for my voice to be heard.
[/quote]

I think Harbaugh would make any call that he really felt would help us out and give us the best chance to win. He has done a good job of preparing us for the most part. I honestly think people go after Mattison before they go after Harbs because Harbs isn't calling the plays for defense.

If I was Harbaugh I'd change things up first day of the bye. I'd clear out all the lockers and put their things in boxes, so when they walk in it looks like the first day of camp. I'd say we start over right now. The new season starts today. You're things are packed up and you all have to earn your staring spots back. Then I'd take them into the film room and have them watch National Geographic shows of Lions hunting on the Serengeti to show them what it's like to hunt with some swagger again. Then they hit the field so hard you'd think you'd think it stole something. Frank Walker would have 2 hours of defending people with his hands duct taped behind his back, so he can't touch receivers. Suggs will practice beating triple teams. Landry will watch tapes of himself from 2006 and Zbikowski play SS because he's sitting. Zibby doesn't miss tackles. Fabian would cover Kelley Washington and have tackling drills against LeRon McClain. Foxworth would learn to finish plays by running the entire practice. I'd hand out homework assignments. I would make Foxworth watch "Man On Fire" every night. I'd tell him he has to start playing like a man on fire. Imagine Pita is the ball, now what would you do to get her back? You're going to go up to Kyle Orton when the clock stikes 00:00 and say, "I wish...you had...more time!".

Then they would all watch "The Band That Never Died" before the game to show them what the city went through to get a team back. To show that Baltimore never gives up and never quits! Then I bring in O.J Brigance for a pep talk and remind then all who this season is dedicated to. That gameball belongs to O.J, Denver doesn't get to touch O.J.'s ball. Now you go get him that gameball!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6v_-Out0w0

[Sizzle]

[quote name='BMOREHAWAII' date='30 October 2009 - 11:41 PM' timestamp='1256960512' post='268657']
Now thats funny!


Nowhere did i say that i know how to coach or whats best for the team this isn't madden. If you were Harbaugh would you start Walker/Carr over Washington? Im stating my opinion in where our team was know for a stout defense,and now arent feared by even Brodie Croyler. I guess your a pro-Chris Carr/Frank Walker type of guy if youd like them in there. we were contenders for the Lambardi last year and looked like nothing but improvement this year. I could really care less about the Skins, they werent in the playoffs last year so you can keep your motto to yourself.
[/quote]
First of all im not an nfl coach so again stop talking about things you really dont know about. If Harbaugh feels like taking out Washington and puts Walker in its his choice and i trust him better than you. Don't be the guy that watched the first 3 games and bragged all day then when we lose 3 start blaming everyone.

[Alexir]

The thing that ticks me off is we have a pro bowl Running back, a pro bowl full back and one of the best young running backs in the league and.....we are throwing the ball 40+ yards a game to recievers who havent been to the pro bowl except mason for 1 year and heap for a year. BLOWS MY MIND!

If the defense is slacking lets keep them off the field as long as we can!

But how could we do that. is there a way to keep the clock ticking?

YES! it is called rushing. incomplete pass stops the clock running the ball doesnt.

[mhead66]

[quote name='Alexir' date='31 October 2009 - 12:40 PM' timestamp='1257007224' post='268795']
The thing that ticks me off is we have a pro bowl Running back, a pro bowl full back and one of the best young running backs in the league and.....we are throwing the ball 40+ yards a game to recievers who havent been to the pro bowl except mason for 1 year and heap for a year. BLOWS MY MIND!

If the defense is slacking lets keep them off the field as long as we can!

But how could we do that. is there a way to keep the clock ticking?

YES! it is called rushing. incomplete pass stops the clock running the ball doesnt.
[/quote]
+1

I've been arguing this for weeks, and some people here continue to counter with the fact that the Ravens should continue passing-passing-passing, because we've had offensive success, and scored points.

Well, yes, scoring points is the goal of the offense, but scoring the same number of points, while gaining TOP (thereby keeping the D off the field) would be preferable. Last year, the Ravens were #1 in TOP, this year we're #19. Am I the only one who thinks this may be a factor in the fall-off of the Defense?

[Jamal]

I'm actually worried more about our offense because of that tough Denver D.

I have enough faith in Harbs and company that the D will be better.

[hammer]

[quote name='mhead66' date='31 October 2009 - 12:47 PM' timestamp='1257007655' post='268797']
+1

[b]I've been arguing this for weeks, and some people here continue to counter with the fact that the Ravens should continue passing-passing-passing, because we've had offensive success, and scored points.[/b]

Well, yes, scoring points is the goal of the offense, but scoring the same number of points, while gaining TOP (thereby keeping the D off the field) would be preferable. Last year, the Ravens were #1 in TOP, this year we're #19. Am I the only one who thinks this may be a factor in the fall-off of the Defense?
[/quote]

[b]Well, yes, scoring points is the goal of the offense, but scoring the same number of points, while gaining TOP (thereby keeping the D off the field) would be preferable.[/b]

Sorry guy, this is an irrational argument which is "begging" the question. The ONLY reason the defense is on the field so long is that they cant stop third down conversions this year. The Ravens D are not getting the normal 3 and outs that we are accustomed to. This is what keeps them on the field. The Ravens lead the league in third down conversions. There's no difference in a running first down or a passing one, as it relates to TOP.

This year (2009) the Ravens TOP for opponents is 30.41. In 2008, it was 27.47.
This year (2009) the Ravens are ranked 5th in NFL Scoring. In 2008, it was 15th.

What this says is that the Ravens Offense is just scoring at a faster rate in 2009, than they did in 2008. This is an asset, not a problem. The problem is that the defense CAN'T GET OFF THE FIELD ON THIRD DOWNS.

If the COULD get off the field in three plays once and a while then the offense would get more possesions and score more points. This is what we are ACTUALLY trying to achieve, NOT TOP LEADERS.

[JEEPercreepermd]

[quote name='hammer' date='31 October 2009 - 01:38 PM' timestamp='1257014313' post='268818']
[b]Well, yes, scoring points is the goal of the offense, but scoring the same number of points, while gaining TOP (thereby keeping the D off the field) would be preferable.[/b]

Sorry guy, this is an irrational argument which is "begging" the question. The ONLY reason the defense is on the field so long is that they cant stop third down conversions this year. The Ravens D are not getting the normal 3 and outs that we are accustomed to. This is what keeps them on the field. The Ravens lead the league in third down conversions. There's no difference in a running first down or a passing one, as it relates to TOP.

This year (2009) the Ravens TOP for opponents is 30.41. In 2008, it was 27.47.
This year (2009) the Ravens are ranked 5th in NFL Scoring. In 2008, it was 15th.

What this says is that the Ravens Offense is just scoring at a faster rate in 2009, than they did in 2008. This is an asset, not a problem. The problem is that the defense CAN'T GET OFF THE FIELD ON THIRD DOWNS.

If the COULD get off the field in three plays once and a while then the offense would get more possesions and score more points. This is what we are ACTUALLY trying to achieve, NOT TOP LEADERS.
[/quote]
While I agree to most of your points, numbers don't always tell the whole story. If you go back the the Ravens loss at Minnesota it seemed like the Defense was on the field the whole first half.

[darklight1216]

[quote name='hammer' date='31 October 2009 - 02:38 PM' timestamp='1257014313' post='268818']
This year (2009) the Ravens TOP for opponents is 30.41. In 2008, it was 27.47.
This year (2009) the Ravens are ranked 5th in NFL Scoring. In 2008, it was 15th.
[/quote]
Actually, the Ravens are 6th in scoring this year(5th overall), and were 11th (18th overall) in 2008.

I do agree with you, however. The defense is the primary reason that the defense is on the field.

[Endzone 84]

First things first. We need to change our motto to, pull you head out of your a$$ and play like a Raven. I'm not sweating anyhting for tomorrow. I guess everyone forgot how we were 2-3 last season at one point, with no bye. I am predicting we will win tomorrow. If not, I will apologize to everyone.

[flynismo]

[quote name='Endzone 84' date='31 October 2009 - 06:38 PM' timestamp='1257028711' post='268909']
First things first. We need to change our motto to, pull you head out of your a$$ and play like a Raven. I'm not sweating anyhting for tomorrow. I guess everyone forgot how we were 2-3 last season at one point, with no bye. I am predicting we will win tomorrow. If not, I will apologize to everyone.
[/quote]


lol....that really should be our motto until we string together a few wins.

Not sure why, considering how tough our opponent is, but I'm very confident that we'll get our act together and get the win tomorrow.

[mhead66]

[quote name='Endzone 84' date='31 October 2009 - 06:38 PM' timestamp='1257028711' post='268909']
First things first. We need to change our motto to, pull you head out of your a$$ and play like a Raven. I'm not sweating anyhting for tomorrow. I guess everyone forgot how we were 2-3 last season at one point, with no bye. I am predicting we will win tomorrow. [b]If not, I will apologize to everyone.[/b]
[/quote]
Unless you actually [b]play[/b] for the Ravens (Steve H., is that you? ), no need to apologize. We're all trying to be optimistic...

[AwakenTheDemon]

Quite honestly, I'm tired of hearing people talking about throwing Harbs to the wolves. What have been the major issues people have griped about this year? Defense and offensive play calling. The play calling is Cam's issue, and he needs to work it out. As for the defense, it's about execution, and the players themselves have been lacking (either out of place at moments or committing penalties at vital moments).

Harbs is a great coach who believes in his staff and players, yet is able to light a fire under the seat of those who need a little heat. He motivates when it needs done, and gives the team his all. Unfortunately, the team is struggling a bit so far this season. The only thing I can fault him for is some of the iffy choices he makes in the depth chart (i.e. Webb not getting alot of time in the nickel when Carr is...well, being Carr, and Carr returning kicks longer then he should have).

The success (or lack there of) of a team cannot be pinned completely on a coach, as there's so much to consider when it comes down to it. This isn't like the Skins, where Zorn was head coach and calling the offensive plays, which doubles his liability when it comes to success. People need to calm down and stop trying to pin more blame on Harbs than deserved.

[BMOREHAWAII]

[quote name='Sizzle' date='31 October 2009 - 04:39 AM' timestamp='1256999964' post='268749']
First of all im not an nfl coach so again stop talking about things you really dont know about. If Harbaugh feels like taking out Washington and puts Walker in its his choice and i trust him better than you. Don't be the guy that watched the first 3 games and bragged all day then when we lose 3 start blaming everyone.
[/quote]
First off your taking everything in the wrong way. Id never throw Harbaugh under the bus or Mattison like some of the other people on this forum for that matter. Second, i know you aren't a coach because you're on this forum and trying to argue about a point that i haven't been trying to make for you to offend. All im saying is, if and when we see Chris Carr on the field this sunday, or Frank Walker makes another huge mistake that could have been avoided what happens as fans toward Harbaugh and co.? We should be 5-1 right now, but POSSIBLY because of questionable judgement we aren't. It's no single persons fault because we work as a unit, but from superbowl bound, to losing games that should be ours is weakening to myself and hopefully others as fans. Besides, you're putting too much trust in the coaches hands and not enough in our players ,because its obvious that we have the depth they just dont have the opportunity to show their potential. You make your call and i'll make mine.

[BMOREHAWAII]

[quote name='AwakenTheDemon' date='31 October 2009 - 12:57 PM' timestamp='1257029825' post='268914']
[b] Quite honestly, I'm tired of hearing people talking about throwing Harbs to the wolves. What have been the major issues people have griped about this year? Defense and offensive play calling. The play calling is Cam's issue, and he needs to work it out. As for the defense, it's about execution, and the players themselves have been lacking (either out of place at moments or committing penalties at vital moments).

The only thing I can fault him for is some of the iffy choices he makes in the depth chart (i.e. Webb not getting alot of time in the nickel when Carr is...well, being Carr, and Carr returning kicks longer then he should have). [/b]
[/quote]
Who's choice is it the make changes in these positions? Your basically stating exactly what i said, but only difference is that you claim im throwing Harbaugh to the wolves????

[AwakenTheDemon]

Where did I name ANY names in who's throwing who to the wolves? It was a generalized statement regarding some of the fans on here (yes, not the majority but some). So before you call me out for saying you're throwing Harbs under the bus, I suggest you tell me where I specifically stated you, or anyone else by name, for that matter.

Part of my post did reflect your's, yes. However, you're saying Harbs has the final say. Yet, what I'm saying is Harbs can make changes, yes, but when it comes to defense, it's been about execution. And that is something a Head Coach cannot easily change. He can put pressure on guys to practice and play better, but the final point comes down to the players themselves to make the change.

Fact of the matter is, since the losing streak began, nearly everyone on the Ravens staff and roster has been thrown under the bus at some point in time. The only people seemingly safe from the criticism have been Flacco and Rice.

[hammer]

[quote name='JEEPercreepermd' date='31 October 2009 - 05:59 PM' timestamp='1257026342' post='268894']
While I agree to most of your points, numbers don't always tell the whole story. If you go back the the Ravens loss at Minnesota it seemed like the Defense was on the field the whole first half.
[/quote]

Yup, but,,,,,,ONLY because they couldn't get off the field on third down.

[mhead66]

[quote name='hammer' date='31 October 2009 - 10:58 PM' timestamp='1257044318' post='268965']
Yup, but,,,,,,ONLY because they couldn't get off the field on third down.
[/quote]
With all due respect...

The Ravens are 19th in the NFL in points allowed.
The Ravens are 19th in the NFL in yards allowed.

The Ravens are 10th in the NFL in 3rd down %. They've allowed 26 first downs on 75 attempts, a respectable 35%. Carolina has the NFL's #1 pass Defense, and they're at 38%.

In the Minnesota game, the Ravens allowed a 35% 3rd down conversion rate. Again, not the reason why we lost. The same as our overall season average. 10th in the NFL.

On Minnesota's 1st TD, they scored a 19 yd TD on a 2nd & 13. Minn. never had a 3rd down opportunity to even attempt to convert.

On Minnesota's 2nd TD, they scored on a 4 yard TD on a 1st & 4. Minn. converted on one 3rd down opportunity during the drive, a 3rd & 7. They made a 1st down on a 1st & 15 and a 2nd & 1, also.

On Minny's 1st FG, they converted one 1st & 10, one 2nd & 5, and one 3rd & 1 for first downs. The 3rd & 1 is often automatic in the NFL. Other than that, the Ravens' D stopped Favre on a 3rd & 10, and they kicked a FG.

On Minny's 2nd FG, they got one 1st down - a 1st & 10, for 63 yards. The D held on 3rd & 10, and they kicked a FG.

On Minny's 3rd TD, they scored on 3rd & 1 at the Ravens' 1 yard line. During the drive, the Vikes got first downs on a 2nd & 3, a 2nd & 5, and a 3rd & 6. One of 3 first downs were on 3rd down. The big play was Walker's 39 yard PI call.

On Minny's 3rd FG, they got one 1st down, a 58 yard run on 1st & 10. They were stopped on 3rd & 5, and kicked a FG.

On Minny's last FG, they made one 1st down, on a 58 yard catch on 2nd & 6. They were stopped on 3rd & 9, and kicked a FG.


Let me sum up.

The Vikes scored TDs on a 1st down, 2nd down and 3rd down. The 3rd down was from the 1 yd lline.
The Vikes got 4 FGs. All 4 FG drives occurred, because the Ravens' D stopped the Vikes' O on 3rd down.
During the 7 Vikings' scoring drives, the Vikes converted 11 1st downs. Four first downs were converted on 1st down, four on 2nd down and only 3 on third down. And one of those 3rd down conversions was 3rd & 1.


BTW - In the Minny game, the Ravens' O converted 38% of their first downs...

[hammer]

[quote name='mhead66' date='31 October 2009 - 11:52 PM' timestamp='1257047538' post='268977']
With all due respect...

The Ravens are 19th in the NFL in points allowed.
The Ravens are 19th in the NFL in yards allowed.

The Ravens are 10th in the NFL in 3rd down %. They've allowed 26 first downs on 75 attempts, a respectable 35%. Carolina has the NFL's #1 pass Defense, and they're at 38%.

In the Minnesota game, the Ravens allowed a 35% 3rd down conversion rate. Again, not the reason why we lost. The same as our overall season average. 10th in the NFL.

On Minnesota's 1st TD, they scored a 19 yd TD on a 2nd & 13. Minn. never had a 3rd down opportunity to even attempt to convert.

On Minnesota's 2nd TD, they scored on a 4 yard TD on a 1st & 4. Minn. converted on one 3rd down opportunity during the drive, a 3rd & 7. They made a 1st down on a 1st & 15 and a 2nd & 1, also.

On Minny's 1st FG, they converted one 1st & 10, one 2nd & 5, and one 3rd & 1 for first downs. The 3rd & 1 is often automatic in the NFL. Other than that, the Ravens' D stopped Favre on a 3rd & 10, and they kicked a FG.

On Minny's 2nd FG, they got one 1st down - a 1st & 10, for 63 yards. The D held on 3rd & 10, and they kicked a FG.

On Minny's 3rd TD, they scored on 3rd & 1 at the Ravens' 1 yard line. During the drive, the Vikes got first downs on a 2nd & 3, a 2nd & 5, and a 3rd & 6. One of 3 first downs were on 3rd down. The big play was Walker's 39 yard PI call.

On Minny's 3rd FG, they got one 1st down, a 58 yard run on 1st & 10. They were stopped on 3rd & 5, and kicked a FG.

On Minny's last FG, they made one 1st down, on a 58 yard catch on 2nd & 6. They were stopped on 3rd & 9, and kicked a FG.


Let me sum up.

The Vikes scored TDs on a 1st down, 2nd down and 3rd down. The 3rd down was from the 1 yd lline.
The Vikes got 4 FGs. All 4 FG drives occurred, because the Ravens' D stopped the Vikes' O on 3rd down.
During the 7 Vikings' scoring drives, the Vikes converted 11 1st downs. Four first downs were converted on 1st down, four on 2nd down and only 3 on third down. And one of those 3rd down conversions was 3rd & 1.


BTW - In the Minny game, the Ravens' O converted 38% of their first downs...
[/quote]

I really didn't want to get into a debate about third down defense. What my point is that the defense can't get off the field....period!

Unfortunatly I used the term [b]"getting off the field on third down"[/b] for the "lack of a shorter term." But the defensive problems are not only JUST third down defensive stops. This is a classic example of the problem with stats.

What doesn't show up in your third down stats is this; ,,,, in addition to the Ravens third down inefficiency, the Ravens are giving up "big-plays" on FIRST and SECOND downs too.

In fact, the Ravens DEFENSE HAS BEEN absolutely "horrible" from outside the 20 to inside the 20 on defense. They don't stop anybody on ANY downs between the 20's. Their "red-zone" defense is not that bad though.

Whatever route the opponent wants to take to get to the "red-zone" is always open. Once they get to the red-zone," though, the Ravens appear to make a goal line stand. But there is almost no resistance between the 20's. This is what keeps the defense on the field so long.