Merged: The Undefeated Broncos - Attempt 2

[Orange&Blue19]

Let's try this again, as I would REALLY like to have a good conversation about the upcoming game. I obviously am a Broncos fan, but not a homer, and I have a great amount of respect for the Ravens, hence the reason I am on your board.

Now, lets talk about the game, and only the game!

Who wants to start?

[WinnipegRaven]

Well, here's looking forward to a GOOD football game. Cheers!

I'd like to know what people think will be the critical matchups/battles that need to be won to secure a dubya (W)

[BMore27]

Dumerville/ Gaither

Suggs/Clady

I think these matchups are key on both sides of the ball.

[Ravenite]

Time of possession is key to me.

Broncos have good control of the ball but the one thing that the Ravens defense is missing is turnovers. The only game where it seemed like the Ravens of old was the game against the Browns.

Against the Vikings, it was almost shocking to see no turnovers at all. Both offenses came to play and had their way with the defenses.

This can easily be the game of the week to me.

[Ravenite]

[quote name='BMore27' date='27 October 2009 - 03:08 PM' timestamp='1256674135' post='267005']
Dumerville/ Gaither

Suggs/Clady

I think these matchups are key on both sides of the ball.
[/quote]

I'm a little scared about Dumerville and Gaither mainly because watching the Broncos last game, I was loving the fact that the D-line isolated themselves away from Dumerville so he can have one on one or free space to tackle the QB.

I would keep Oher at LT for right now since Gaither is trying to get back into the groove of things but who knows...

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='BMore27' date='27 October 2009 - 04:08 PM' timestamp='1256674135' post='267005']
Dumerville/ Gaither

Suggs/Clady

I think these matchups are key on both sides of the ball.
[/quote]

I agree completely. The Broncos move Dumervil around though so Oher will need to bring his A-game too. I'm sure he's ready to build on his promising performance against Allen two weeks ago.

Hopefully Suggs is FINALLY in game shape because watching him fail trying to bull rush left tackles is becoming painful. Clady is one of the best tackles in the league but Suggs has been in the league long enough to use his experience and beat his man.

[raven112657]

Ravens need to get an early lead and then pound the ball. Make Denver play catch up with Orton having to win the game. I do not think Denver has been really tested against the run yet. We have the O-line and backs to do it.

Match ups are great to talk about but the ravens need to win the turnover battle and avoid too many penalties. Cannot wait till Sunday. These bye weeks are tough.

[flynismo]

Watch the Mason/Bailey matchup in the red zone. I think we'll try to get a quick strike there.

Also think that Heap may be lined up on the left a lot. Not necessarily to help Gaither, but to spread the D out and try to get some heat off Clayton so that he can run his deep routes.

It scares me to say this, but for better or worse, Clayton might have to play a big role in the pass game this week.

[Ed_Reed20]

I agree Denver hasn't been tested against the run. I know Cam likes the hot-hand approach but I would like to see McGahee get some carries. Too bad he dances so much.

Winning the turnover battle will be tough. Denver's passing game doesn't force Orton to make tough throws. That's why it's imperative the defense shuts down Denver's running game and forces third and longs.

[neepo13]

[quote name='Ravenite' date='27 October 2009 - 04:11 PM' timestamp='1256674283' post='267008']
I'm a little scared about Dumerville and Gaither mainly because watching the Broncos last game, I was loving the fact that the D-line isolated themselves away from Dumerville so he can have one on one or free space to tackle the QB.

I would keep Oher at LT for right now since Gaither is trying to get back into the groove of things but who knows...
[/quote]
Gaither vs. Dumerville gives me flashbacks of Ogden vs Freeney. J.O. really struggled with Freeney at times because J.O was so big and Freeney was so small. Gaither is as big as J.O. and Dumerville might be smaller than Freeney. Thats not a good matchup for Gaither. We'll need to use Heap and Leron to chip to keep him in check.

[quote name='raven112657' date='27 October 2009 - 04:16 PM' timestamp='1256674567' post='267011']
Ravens need to get an early lead and then pound the ball. Make Denver play catch up with Orton having to win the game. I do not think Denver has been really tested against the run yet. We have the O-line and backs to do it.

Match ups are great to talk about but the ravens need to win the turnover battle and avoid too many penalties. Cannot wait till Sunday. These bye weeks are tough.
[/quote]

I am not interested in playing Marty ball. We need to establish the run game but it will be best if we can remain balanced. Getting a lead and sitting on it leads to losses. If we get them down we need to cut their throats. Look at us vs. Minn. Minn. got way to conservative, they let us hang around and the more we hung around the harder it got for them to put us away and it almost cost them the game.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='flynismo' date='27 October 2009 - 04:21 PM' timestamp='1256674916' post='267015']
Watch the Mason/Bailey matchup in the red zone. I think we'll try to get a quick strike there.

It scares me to say this, but for better or worse, Clayton might have to play a big role in the pass game this week.
[/quote]

Hopefully Cam doesn't call a jump-ball to Champ in the end-zone like he did in '06. I'll never forget watching Clarence Moore weakly jump in the air and Champ plucking the ball out of the air.

I really hope Flacco can go after Andre Goodman with Clayton.

[Bronco_Hyde]

[quote name='raven112657' date='27 October 2009 - 02:16 PM' timestamp='1256674567' post='267011']
Ravens need to get an early lead and then pound the ball. Make Denver play catch up with Orton having to win the game. I do not think Denver has been really tested against the run yet. We have the O-line and backs to do it.

Match ups are great to talk about but the ravens need to win the turnover battle and avoid too many penalties. Cannot wait till Sunday. These bye weeks are tough.
[/quote]

That is an ideal strategy for you, but I'm not sure you can do it or that it would work. We have "played catchup" and won from behind in 4 of our 6 games. Dallas and NE both had us down by 10 points at half time. But it's the second half you have to look out for. Broncos D has only allowed 2 3rd down conversions in the 2nd half out of 35 attempts. We haven't allowed a 2nd half TD since week 1. And only 1 2nd half FG all year long.
If you do get up early, it will have to be by at least 17 to keep us out of the game.

As for being tested against the run . . . I don't know. We haven't allowed a 100 yd rusher all year. We held Cedric Benson in check fairly well. And we shut down Dallas quite effectively when they were #1 rushing offense.
Granted, we haven't seen a RB like Rice, but I just don't see it being that much of a problem with the speed of our LB's and the heavy blitzing.

As to the turnover battle, we've won it in every game this year except NE, and we still beat them despite that. Orton just doesn't throw Int's. He's been getting a ridiculous amount of time in the pocket and can just sit and wait for an open man. If one doesn't show up, he's not in the least bit abashed about throwing it away.
We have had a bit of a fumbling problem, but I can't picture that not being drilled into the players heads over the bye week. We'll see.



The biggest problem you guys have to worry about is Josh McDaniels. He's a new entity. Every week we have come out, there have been new wrinkles in the offense that have never been seen before. And especially the fact that he's had 2 weeks to plan and practice . . . you had better believe you will be seeing formations and plays that your defense will have no idea how to handle.


The Ravens are a very good team, but they just haven't had the same type of chemistry and unity that the Broncos have been blessed with this year. i know I might sound overconfident, but hey, it's been a long time since I was completely pleased and excited about my Broncos, and dang it, I'm going to take advantage!

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='neepo13' date='27 October 2009 - 04:25 PM' timestamp='1256675154' post='267017']
Gaither vs. Dumerville gives me flashbacks of Ogden vs Freeney. J.O. really struggled with Freeney at times because J.O was so big and Freeney was so small. Gaither is as big as J.O. and Dumerville might be smaller than Freeney. Thats not a good matchup for Gaither. We'll need to use Heap and Leron to chip to keep him in check.
[/quote]

I do agree that Heap and McClain/McGahee should be brought in to chip Dumervil but as for the Freeney/J.O. match-up, I think J.O.'s toe was bothering him.

[FerrariFan87]

Suggs has been a non-factor rushing the QB thus far, so to put him on Clady's side is a big mistake. Dumervil v. Gaither will be very intriguing, but I expect Elvis to challenge Oher a lot as well.... it's all about match-ups.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Bronco_Hyde' date='27 October 2009 - 04:30 PM' timestamp='1256675459' post='267021']
As for being tested against the run . . . I don't know. We haven't allowed a 100 yd rusher all year. We held Cedric Benson in check fairly well. And we shut down Dallas quite effectively when they were #1 rushing offense.
Granted, we haven't seen a RB like Rice, but I just don't see it being that much of a problem with the speed of our LB's and the heavy blitzing.
[/quote]

Not allowing a 100-yard rusher this year has been impressive but you have to look at why. Cleveland, Oakland, SD and NE are all below-average at best running the ball. As for Dallas, the quad injury Barber suffered in Week 2 kept him quiet against Denver and Felix Jones wasn't playing. That's not an excuse but Dallas had the #1 rushing offense in the league because all three of their RBs were healthy prior to that and they faced Tampa, the Ginats and Carolina before they faced Denver.

I personally think Rice will have success running the ball considering how good the o-line is and if McGahee attacks the hole, he'll rip off some good gains too.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='FerrariFan87' date='27 October 2009 - 04:34 PM' timestamp='1256675680' post='267024']
Suggs has been a non-factor rushing the QB thus far, so to put him on Clady's side is a big mistake. Dumervil v. Gaither will be very intriguing, but I expect Elvis to challenge Oher a lot as well.... it's all about match-ups.
[/quote]

How is it a mistake? You move pass rushing DEs around to take advantage of match-ups but you don't move a Pro Bowler to one side because you're afraid he can't beat his man.

Mattison should run some stunts and overload blitzes with Barnes/McClain(not Nakamura/Carr) but I don't know if he'll do it.

[neepo13]

[quote name='Bronco_Hyde' date='27 October 2009 - 04:30 PM' timestamp='1256675459' post='267021']
That is an ideal strategy for you, but I'm not sure you can do it or that it would work. We have "played catchup" and won from behind in 4 of our 6 games. [b]Dallas and NE both had us down by 10 points at half time.[/b] But it's the second half you have to look out for. Broncos D has only allowed 2 3rd down conversions in the 2nd half out of 35 attempts. We haven't allowed a 2nd half TD since week 1. And only 1 2nd half FG all year long.
If you do get up early, it will have to be by at least 17 to keep us out of the game.

As for being tested against the run . . . I don't know. We haven't allowed a 100 yd rusher all year. We held Cedric Benson in check fairly well. And we shut down Dallas quite effectively when they were #1 rushing offense.
Granted, we haven't seen a RB like Rice, but I just don't see it being that much of a problem with the speed of our LB's and the heavy blitzing.

As to the turnover battle, we've won it in every game this year except NE, and we still beat them despite that. Orton just doesn't throw Int's. He's been getting a ridiculous amount of time in the pocket and can just sit and wait for an open man. If one doesn't show up, he's not in the least bit abashed about throwing it away.
We have had a bit of a fumbling problem, but I can't picture that not being drilled into the players heads over the bye week. We'll see.



[b]The biggest problem you guys have to worry about is Josh McDaniels. He's a new entity. Every week we have come out, there have been new wrinkles in the offense that have never been seen before. And especially the fact that he's had 2 weeks to plan and practice . . . you had better believe you will be seeing formations and plays that your defense will have no idea how to handle.[/b]

The Ravens are a very good team, but they just haven't had the same type of chemistry and unity that the Broncos have been blessed with this year. [b]i know I might sound overconfident,[/b] but hey, it's been a long time since I was completely pleased and excited about my Broncos, and dang it, I'm going to take advantage!
[/quote]

Both those games were in Denver, if I am not mistaken. Its a bit harder to go on the road and have that kind of comeback. If anyone knows that, Raven fans do. We tried and failed at NE and Minn.

But cant the same be said about every team who has two weeks to gameplan? Thats nothing special to McDanials. I I am sure the Ravens dont expect to see the same things that they've seen so far this season from the Bronco's and you'd better hope vice versa is true. Cam Cameron isnt a slouch of an OC, he's been at this a lot longer than Josh and he's got tricks up his sleeves to.

By all means, take the Ravens lightly.I hope the Bronco's have the same attitude because it will get very ugly for them if they do. Share the joy.

[Frombmore2ohio]

I think I speak for ALL Raven fans when I say Dont ride da wagon then jump off when your team gets spanked this Sunday. Be a man and show up in here Monday morning. You guys kill me sticking your chest out when you get a few wins but when yall losing just like last year you guys are quite as a church mouse!!!

[WinnipegRaven]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' date='27 October 2009 - 02:49 PM' timestamp='1256676571' post='267037']
How is it a mistake? You move pass rushing DEs around to take advantage of match-ups but you don't move a Pro Bowler to one side because you're afraid he can't beat his man.
[/quote]
Beat me to it. Who would you like to see up against Clady if not Suggs?

[Frombmore2ohio]

[quote name='Frombmore2ohio' date='27 October 2009 - 04:52 PM' timestamp='1256676728' post='267042']
I think I speak for ALL Raven fans when I say Dont ride da wagon then jump off when your team gets spanked this Sunday. Be a man and show up in here Monday morning. You guys kill me sticking your chest out when you get a few wins but when yall losing just like last year you guys are quite as a church mouse!!!
[/quote]

[Frombmore2ohio]

I think I speak for ALL Raven fans when I say Dont ride da wagon then jump off when your team gets spanked this Sunday. Be a man and show up in here Monday morning. You guys kill me sticking your chest out when you get a few wins but when yall losing just like last year you guys are quite as a church mouse!!!

[neepo13]

[quote name='Frombmore2ohio' date='27 October 2009 - 04:57 PM' timestamp='1256677073' post='267052']
I think I speak for ALL Raven fans when I say Dont ride da wagon then jump off when your team gets spanked this Sunday. Be a man and show up in here Monday morning. You guys kill me sticking your chest out when you get a few wins but when yall losing just like last year you guys are quite as a church mouse!!!
[/quote]
STOP SPAMMING, TROLL. We saw it the first time and didnt care to entertain you.

[Bronco_Hyde]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' date='27 October 2009 - 02:44 PM' timestamp='1256676251' post='267031']
Not allowing a 100-yard rusher this year has been impressive but you have to look at why. Cleveland, Oakland, SD and NE are all below-average at best running the ball. As for Dallas, the quad injury Barber suffered in Week 2 kept him quiet against Denver and Felix Jones wasn't playing. That's not an excuse but Dallas had the #1 rushing offense in the league because all three of their RBs were healthy prior to that and they faced Tampa, the Ginats and Carolina before they faced Denver.

I personally think Rice will have success running the ball considering how good the o-line is and if McGahee attacks the hole, he'll rip off some good gains too.
[/quote]

Excuses can always be found to explain things. But the fact remains that Denver has been better at Rushing defense than all teams except Arizona and Pittsburgh. And you can easily look at who those 2 have played against and make the same kind of excuses.
In fact, with as many bad teams as there are in the league this year, it's impossible for any team to have been thoroughly "tested" by the run. But the Broncos have been tested as much as anyone, and have performed better than most.

It will be an interesting matchup, Rice might even break 100. But it still won't be enough to win without some offense coming from somewhere else. And I just don't see Mason and Clayton or Heap doing well against our secondary.


On the other hand, if you manage to shut off our running game (doubtful, you'll probably be seeing the Wild Horses formation) then Orton will just sit in the pocket and throw 5-6 yard slants, hooks, and screens. That's as good as a running game for all intents and purposes.

[neepo13]

[quote name='Bronco_Hyde' date='27 October 2009 - 05:00 PM' timestamp='1256677235' post='267054']
Excuses can always be found to explain things. But the fact remains that Denver has been better at Rushing defense than all teams except Arizona and Pittsburgh. And you can easily look at who those 2 have played against and make the same kind of excuses.
In fact, with as many bad teams as there are in the league this year, it's impossible for any team to have been thoroughly "tested" by the run. But the Broncos have been tested as much as anyone, and have performed better than most.

It will be an interesting matchup, Rice might even break 100. [b]But it still won't be enough to win without some offense coming from somewhere else. And I just don't see Mason and Clayton or Heap doing well against our secondary.[/b]

On the other hand, if you manage to shut off our running game [b](doubtful, you'll probably be seeing the Wild Horses formation) then Orton will just sit in the pocket and throw 5-6 yard slants, hooks, and screens. That's as good as a running game for all intents and purposes.[/b][/quote]

Those are some bold statements your throwing out there and to be honest your begining to remind me of the Dolphins, Cowboys and Titans trolls we had here towards the end of last season telling us how our team just couldnt win any of those games and we know how they turned out. Keep talking. I am liking our chances more and more. The fact that you dont think the Bronco's have any weaknesses, lets me know that there are alot of weaknesses to be exposed. And I fully expect the Ravens to find them and take advantage of them. What did your coach say " there is a way to beat every team"? Yes, that does include yours.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Bronco_Hyde' date='27 October 2009 - 05:00 PM' timestamp='1256677235' post='267054']
Excuses can always be found to explain things. But the fact remains that Denver has been better at Rushing defense than all teams except Arizona and Pittsburgh. And you can easily look at who those 2 have played against and make the same kind of excuses.
In fact, with as many bad teams as there are in the league this year, it's impossible for any team to have been thoroughly "tested" by the run. But the Broncos have been tested as much as anyone, and have performed better than most.

It will be an interesting matchup, Rice might even break 100. But it still won't be enough to win without some offense coming from somewhere else. And I just don't see Mason and Clayton or Heap doing well against our secondary.


On the other hand, if you manage to shut off our running game (doubtful, you'll probably be seeing the Wild Horses formation) then Orton will just sit in the pocket and throw 5-6 yard slants, hooks, and screens. That's as good as a running game for all intents and purposes.
[/quote]

But they aren't [b]excuses[/b]. SD, Cleveland, NE and Oakland don't run the ball. That's a fact. Cleveland and Oakland can't because they're usually behind big and NE and SD prefer to air it out.

And I disagree with you about Denver being tested as much as anyone. NE and Cincy were tests. Denver played very well and deserved to win one. You know how I feel about the other. However, none of the other games were against good teams.

Are you serious about the Wild Horses formation? I don't remember seeing it much against SD.

And don't forget about Kelley Washington. I don't know who Denver's nickel is but I doubt he can nullify Kelley.

[Bronco_Hyde]

[quote name='neepo13' date='27 October 2009 - 02:51 PM' timestamp='1256676661' post='267039']
Both those games were in Denver, if I am not mistaken. Its a bit harder to go on the road and have that kind of comeback. If anyone knows that, Raven fans do. We tried and failed at NE and Minn.

But cant the same be said about every team who has two weeks to gameplan? Thats nothing special to McDanials. I I am sure the Ravens dont expect to see the same things that they've seen so far this season from the Bronco's and you'd better hope vice versa is true. Cam Cameron isnt a slouch of an OC, he's been at this a lot longer than Josh and he's got tricks up his sleeves to.

By all means, take the Ravens lightly.I hope the Bronco's have the same attitude because it will get very ugly for them if they do. Share the joy.
[/quote]

That's true. But we also came from behind against Cincinnati and San Diego in their houses.
(And please don't start with the fluke play thing again, it's been done to death)

The difference with McDaniels that I was getting at is that it's his first year, therefore there are no habits or indications from previous years about what he might do. I'm sure that Ravens fans aren't as aware (and probably don't care) of what McD has done each week. It really has been something special. I'm not taking anything away from Cameron, he's obviously done great things with your offense, but between McD and Nolan, the coaching has been a step above spectacular this year.

As a fan, I have the luxury of taking you lightly without adversely affecting my team. Not that i'm blowing you off the way I would the Raiders or the Browns. This week is just different. I don't know if it's that I'm more confident or just bored from the bye, but I'm really not as worried this week as I have been the past 2.

But I guarantee the team isn't taking anything lightly. They'll be coming to play.

[neepo13]

On another note, what does Denver's ST look like? I like our chances of winning the field position battle with Koch @ home.

[neepo13]

[quote name='Bronco_Hyde' date='27 October 2009 - 05:10 PM' timestamp='1256677852' post='267061']
[b]That's true. But we also came from behind against Cincinnati and San Diego in their houses. [/b]
(And please don't start with the fluke play thing again, it's been done to death)

The difference with McDaniels that I was getting at is that it's his first year, therefore there are no habits or indications from previous years about what he might do. I'm sure that Ravens fans aren't as aware (and probably don't care) of what McD has done each week. It really has been something special. I'm not taking anything away from Cameron, he's obviously done great things with your offense, but between McD and Nolan, the coaching has been a step above spectacular this year.

As a fan, I have the luxury of taking you lightly without adversely affecting my team. Not that i'm blowing you off the way I would the Raiders or the Browns. This week is just different. I don't know if it's that I'm more confident or just bored from the bye, but I'm really not as worried this week as I have been the past 2.

But I guarantee the team isn't taking anything lightly. They'll be coming to play.
[/quote]

You led most of the game at Cinci, thats not a come from behind win in my opinion. I didnt watch all of the SD game, but I am pretty sure you led most of that game to. If the Ravens come out the gates firing on all cylinders and get your team in a double digit hole, can they climb out of it on the road? They havent proved that they can do that.

I like the overconfidence, its going to make the Ravens win so much sweeter.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='neepo13' date='27 October 2009 - 05:12 PM' timestamp='1256677977' post='267063']
On another note, what does Denver's ST look like? I like our chances of winning the field position battle with Koch @ home.
[/quote]

I agree about Koch. His ability to pin teams within the 20 is great.

[Bronco_Hyde]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' date='27 October 2009 - 03:10 PM' timestamp='1256677815' post='267060']
But they aren't [b]excuses[/b]. SD, Cleveland, NE and Oakland don't run the ball. That's a fact. Cleveland and Oakland can't because they're usually behind big and NE and SD prefer to air it out.

And I disagree with you about Denver being tested as much as anyone. NE and Cincy were tests. Denver played very well and deserved to win one. You know how I feel about the other. However, none of the other games were against good teams.

Are you serious about the Wild Horses formation? I don't remember seeing it much against SD.

And don't forget about Kelley Washington. I don't who Denver's nickel is but I doubt he can nullify Kelley.
[/quote]

They may have some validity, but they're still excuses. Just the same way the blaming the injury of key players is valid, but it's still an excuse. Every team in NFL football is comprised of professional players. Why any of these teams perform sub-par is irrelevant when you're talking about results.

If you don't think Denver has been tested as much as anyone, please give me another team who has been tested more and has proven as much? Arizona and Pittsburgh are the only 2 with a better Rushing allowed average. So which of them has been tested more??


As for the Cincy thing. I'm still waiting for anyone to give me a valid reason why Cinci "deserved" to win more than the Broncos after the broncos shut them out for 59 minutes?? We had 3 scoring drives, they had 1. We moved the ball better, had more first downs, and more total offense. So how does 1 lucky play change the fact that we outplayed them??

I am serious about the Wild horses. We didn't use it at all against SD, because we didn't have to. We easily ran on them without it. What I said was IF you somehow shut down are normal running game, you will then have to deal with the Wild Horses. Which, for those who don't know, is NOT the wildcat, it's better because there is a lot more versatility and ability to audible to passes.

Washington?? What's been his best performance this year . . . 5 catches for 60 yards against Cleveland? He's only scored 1 TD all year??
Meh, not worried. Westley Woodyard is the primary Nickel, and that boy is a ball hawk. He hasn't been beaten badly all year, so I doubt your 3rd string WR will do it.




Guys, I'm sorry if I'm sounding like I'm smacking. I really don't intend it. I'm just very excited about my team this year. no disrespect is intended to anyone . . . . until after you lose (just kidding).