Steelers Beat Vikings Showing How Defense Should Called

[52Kia Kaha92]

all we need to do is start doing different things on defense. People complain about Mattison and IMO they should as he is a huge reason to blame because of his vanilla defense. all we need to do is mix in a lot of zone coverage and blitz pacakges and we will be fine. We need to help our corners by getting to the quarterback and getting in his head. Instead of lining up in a 4-3 set and rushing the down lineman why dont we line up in the 4-3. Rush 2 of the down lineman, drop the ends into coverage and rush all the linebackers. Or rush 3 of the down lineman and a linebacker aswell as a safety. Why not move the enitre front seven to the left and apply an overload. Lets start blitzing Dawan more and using Lardarius speed and hitting power in the nickel on blitzes.

Why not line up in a 3-4 nopw and again and confuse the opponets by not showing where we are lining up by running all over the place. And when there backfield is empty or there is only a runningback back there lets do an ILB cross and confuse them and get a free man on his way to the QB. Lets play some 46 and drop guys into coverage from the line and blitz safeties and linebackers.

We need to create confusion on the quarterbacks and the offensive line. At the moment the other team walks up to the line and says "alright, they are coming out vanilla on us again, just block the guy infront of you and we will score a TD". Thats what they are saying as we dont do anything but rush the 4 guys on the line.

I want some chocolate!!!! Im sick of Vanilla

[steeliam]

If If If !!! If ifs and buts were candy and nuts it would christmas every day. Yinz just have to get your stuff together and beat up on the Bronco's.

[Tighthead420]

[quote name='steeliam' date='26 October 2009 - 07:58 AM' timestamp='1256558290' post='266317']
If If If !!! If ifs and buts were candy and nuts it would christmas every day. Yinz just have to get your stuff together and beat up on the Bronco's.
[/quote]


As much as it pains me, the steeler fan is right. If if if if if if if if if....if the ravens finished games this year they would be undefeated...if they won the AFC champ last year they would have made it to the superbowl....if if if if if. Drives me nuts. If they didn't blow games against quality teams, they would still be considered a good team. Until they do, they are the best mediocre team out there.

"Do or do not, there is no try."

[RavensAllTheWay]

[quote name='Bltravens' date='25 October 2009 - 10:21 PM' timestamp='1256523714' post='266262']
I was listing the change over on defense from a poster that said Mattison was the only significant change. And CMac was only hurt 07 and 08 thats 2 years 05 and 06 he was one of the best corners in the entire league. Im not sure why people hate on CMac so much, ya hes not healthy now and older but he was the best corner in the league for a good 5 years. He shutdown the best WRs in the game in that stretch. And now because hes 32 and has shot knees and Harbaugh hates him everyone on this board thinks CMac was a joke. Brutal
[/quote]Well yeah I mean there was a time when he was an amazing corner, but we can't afford to pay him if he's hurt. And especially not after we gave Suggs and Lewis massive contracts. We needed to save room in order to be able to pay those 2. Nature of the business

[RavensAllTheWay]

Problem with our D is that we have tons of aggressive players who are playing in a relatively unaggressive scheme. That is the main difference between last years D and this years D. We've gone from playing great at the line of scrimmage to dropping back and putting too much faith in our secondary. Look I respect Greg Mattison as our D coordinator, but he's gotta realize that no one on our defense fits in this shceme he's running.

BRING THE AGGRESSION BACK!!!!

[20ravens52]

[quote name='ravenwildman' date='25 October 2009 - 09:16 PM' timestamp='1256519790' post='266222']
Steelers defense looked good, but... I do question (again!) some of the game changing calls made by the Refs...Defensive delay of game? and that so called tripping call? wow.

Take those out of the game and Pitt would be 4-3
[/quote]


yup...if they would have never called that joke of a penalty they would have gotten a td, and the steelers wouldn't have had that fumble recovery for a td.

The steelers really do have the officials on there side.

Oh how about that hit james harrison had on favre behind the knee.


Or there corners not playing the ball. I swear if it was there was a number 41 out there in a ravens jersey it'd be called pass interferance.

It's all a big joke.

[Alexir]

You people say it isnt Mattison but its either the players we have now or the players we lost. Jim Leonhard and Bart Scott? LOL, Ok....or its the fact that we went to a 4-3 and we dont blitz up the middle ever.ever.

So since he is the Defensive Coordinator and is getting paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to keep the defense together, you are god dang right its his fault.

[JEEPercreepermd]

Let's not forget that Brett Favre passed for 334 yds yesterday, The Steelers kept Peterson in check but he only got 18 rushes, and Minnesota dominated the time of possession 36:58 -23:02. The difference was the Steelers two defensives scores one was because they got good pressure, the other was a gift.

[JEEPercreepermd]

[quote name='Alexir' date='26 October 2009 - 02:32 PM' timestamp='1256585577' post='266458']
You people say it isnt Mattison but its either the players we have now or the players we lost. Jim Leonhard and Bart Scott? LOL, Ok....or its the fact that we went to a 4-3 and we dont blitz up the middle ever.ever.

So since he is the Defensive Coordinator and is getting paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to keep the defense together, you are god dang right its his fault.
[/quote]
I can agree to that, the defense is pretty vanilla compared to what we are used to seeing. I think right now is the time to determine that it hasn't worked and to make some adjustments. The players DO have to start executing much better and they have to cut the penalties. In all reality, defensive penalties have cost us two games so far.

[itlstl7]

IMO we just aren't blitzing enough and applying any pressure... I mean I was going crazy watching Phillip Rivers, Tom Brady, and Brett Favre (3 of the leagues best qb's) have a century to sit in the pocket and throw the ball...and it seemed to be happening all day loooonnnggg...

I saw the Steelers apply a ton of pressure yesterday and as a result forced Brett into completing only short passes and ultimately led to a pick 6 to seal the game... Favre probably figured the pressure was going to be coming and threw his Randy Johnson fast ball at Taylor's head... not an easy catch... result...tip and pick 6. IMO this was more of a result of the Steelers ability to get pressure all game than pure luck...

Now if we can't get any pressure on the qb anymore because we lost Bart Scott and a Safety... then Scott and Leonard must have been amazing! (sarcasm)

just my two cents...

[wayne]

[quote name='Sizzle' date='25 October 2009 - 03:09 PM' timestamp='1256504943' post='266129']
God im tired of people blaming mattison. Take in to fact all the players we have lost over the years before you blabbering about shizzzt. Fist of all if it wasnt for the 2 INTs the steelers defense got shredded over 300 yards so thats not a good example.

Other than that stop because its not Mattisons fault its all about execution. The long runs peterson had against us was simply not playing with Discipline just like when Cedric Benson played against us.
[/quote]

Reason people blame Mattison so much is b/c he completely chaged our scheme up of what we were great at doing ( 3-4 with overload blitzes to a 4-3 Tampa 2). It's obvious that our players aren't respondong that great to the change up either so why don't you go back to what was working for us? If we were to play that Dolphins playoff game of last year again with Mattison as our D-Coordinator, I bet we lose that game. Pennignton would have carved up this vanilla ****** D. It tok overload blitzing with players showing blitz and moving around to beat Miami last year. They had the record for fewest turnovers in a season and we made them turn it over like 3-4 times in that playoff game.

This was a post I made in the other thread that was actually a New post but it was merged!

[quote]Now, I know you guys are probably saying to yourselves, " Man, another Mattison thread " but I think they are well deserved considering how our D's identity has been changed up so much going from #2 D in the league last year to #27 in the league this year. It's almost like Mattison has done this purposely just to try to make a name for himself in the NFL but while he is doing his experimenting, our D is suffering from it in the process.

If you have looked at the Pitts-Viks game today you will see how the 3-4 can contain RB's like Peterson forcing him to run it inside instead of get outside the hash marks where he is very dangerous. The back side OLB even prevents Peterson from cutting it back where he is very dangerous too! You will see where the 3-4 defense makes it hard for QB's to do bootleg PA's b/c of the two OLB's pursuit angles on the play and by them standing up, it gives them better vision of seeing if the ball gets handed off to the RB or not. Favre got at us last week with several bootleg PA's wih the one to Rice at the end of the game being one of them. Pittsburgh defense looks worlds better than ours and it's mainly b/c of the scheme by Dick Labuea and Co.Shwoing blitz with players constantly moving around which even makes it hard for the viewers to be able to tell what D they are in which we use to do.

The game is not over between Pitts and Viks but win or lose, the Pittsburgh D has done a great job of containing Peterson and not letting Favre go vintag Favre on them.Please go back to the 3-4! [/quote]
This post has been edited by wayne: Yesterday, 01:39 PM

[wayne]

[quote name='52Kia Kaha92' date='25 October 2009 - 08:52 PM' timestamp='1256525563' post='266271']
all[b] we need to do is start doing different things on defense. People complain about Mattison and IMO they should as he is a huge reason to blame because of his vanilla defense[/b]. all we need to do is mix in a lot of zone coverage and blitz pacakges and we will be fine. We need to help our corners by getting to the quarterback and getting in his head. Instead of lining up in a 4-3 set and rushing the down lineman why dont we line up in the 4-3. Rush 2 of the down lineman, drop the ends into coverage and rush all the linebackers. Or rush 3 of the down lineman and a linebacker aswell as a safety. Why not move the enitre front seven to the left and apply an overload. Lets start blitzing Dawan more and using Lardarius speed and hitting power in the nickel on blitzes.

[b]Why not line up in a 3-4 nopw and again and confuse the opponets by not showing where we are lining up by running all over the place.[/b] And when there backfield is empty or there is only a runningback back there lets do an ILB cross and confuse them and get a free man on his way to the QB. Lets play some 46 and drop guys into coverage from the line and blitz safeties and linebackers.

[b]We need to create confusion on the quarterbacks and the offensive line. At the moment the other team walks up to the line and says "alright, they are coming out vanilla on us again, just block the guy infront of you and we will score a TD". [/b]Thats what they are saying as we dont do anything but rush the 4 guys on the line.

[b]I want some chocolate!!!! Im sick of Vanilla[/b]
[/quote]

This pretty much sums it up. Any person that knows football see whats going on. League is too good to line up in anything vanilla these days on D. It makes it easier for the blockers to know who to block, easier for the QB to read.This is whats really hurting us, ok, we get it now, we know our CB's aint Nhandi or Champ and we know Pryce and Suggs isn't Freeny or Mathis and we know Landry isn't Polamalu or Gooden is Scott or Ray-Ray is Ray-Ray of old but the question lies, do our D-Coordinatoor know this?

Put your players and better position to succeed, with changing our scheme up like he has he is putting them in better position to fail. There has been alot of great defenses that had weaknesses but the true genius of the great D-Cordinatoors, they either hide or make up for those weaknesses. You know you dont have good pass rushers, you blitz more.You know you don't have good Cb's, you blitz more or if you not going to blitz you give them safety help.Steelers CB's outside of Taylor aren't the best but with the pressure they apply, it matters not!

[ibleedpurple96]

[b][/b]I agree, Mattison has really screwed this defense up. We are not built to just rush 3, Our big guys in the middle (Gregg & Ngata) Were brought in to keep the other guys from getting to Ray. We have to blitz we have no pressure on any quarterback that we have played. They better wake up or we will get torched with the QB's we have coming up. So you say that will take away from our coverage down field, WHAT COVERAGE? Our secondary is pathetic. Walker & Washington couldn't cover a piece of bread with butter.Landry is playing hesitantly, I guess do to the injury last year. This is the worst secondary in the NFL. What do you think Manning,Palmer, and Big Ben will do to them? These teams are going to go pass happy against the Ravens, this secondary is a total embarrassment and let down to this team. Yea they always say you don't lose a game because of 1 play, I agree, they give up more then 1 big play a game, or they get called for pass interference. So if there are really some football GODS I hope they start telling the secondary what to do over the rest of the season, We will be luck to go 8-8 with this secondary.
IBLEEDPURPLE96

[SteelersProphet]

[quote name='20ravens52' date='26 October 2009 - 03:29 PM' timestamp='1256585363' post='266454']
yup...if they would have never called that joke of a penalty they would have gotten a td, and the steelers wouldn't have had that fumble recovery for a td.

The steelers really do have the officials on there side.

Oh how about that hit james harrison had on favre behind the knee.


Or there corners not playing the ball. I swear if it was there was a number 41 out there in a ravens jersey it'd be called pass interferance.

It's all a big joke.
[/quote]

the question i have is...do you really believe the refs are for certain teams.....i know people say it alot.....but you cant honestly believe it

im going to assume you dont

now assuming that, why do people keep saying it.....all the time

there are bad calls....there are good calls...there are calls that could go either way

all teams get some bad calls

now that said....the tripping call is not a clear bad call like some

its a call that is debatable

we won that game....we played good football....one debatable call does not define that game

[flynismo]

[quote name='wayne' date='26 October 2009 - 07:44 PM' timestamp='1256600655' post='266576']
This pretty much sums it up. Any person that knows football see whats going on. League is too good to line up in anything vanilla these days on D. It makes it easier for the blockers to know who to block, easier for the QB to read.This is whats really hurting us, ok, we get it now, we know our CB's aint Nhandi or Champ and we know Pryce and Suggs isn't Freeny or Mathis and we know Landry isn't Polamalu or Gooden is Scott or Ray-Ray is Ray-Ray of old but the question lies, do our D-Coordinatoor know this?

Put your players and better position to succeed, with changing our scheme up like he has he is putting them in better position to fail. There has been alot of great defenses that had weaknesses but the true genius of the great D-Cordinatoors, they either hide or make up for those weaknesses. You know you dont have good pass rushers, you blitz more.You know you don't have good Cb's, you blitz more or if you not going to blitz you give them safety help.Steelers CB's outside of Taylor aren't the best but with the pressure they apply, it matters not!
[/quote]


Now, I agree that Harbs should take Matty out behind the shed and give the old man a good lickin'. I generally take up for Matty, but I'm also not blind to the fact that he could be doing a better job than he is now. A good DC who makes solid decisions and playcalls can make the whole larger than a sum of it's parts. A great exampe of that is in our upcoming game...Denver has some talent on defense, but on paper, they probably aren't talented enough to be a top 5 defense, let alone the #1. Nolan probably is the main reason why they are able to be so effective.

I see what you're trying to say; if a 4 man blitz isn't working then send 5 or 6. If the DBs need help, drop a LB back or send both safeties in for support. And so on...

The problem is, when you compensate for one weakness, it magnifies the other one. What happens when we send in 6 and the rush doesn't get there fast enough? Or even if it does, but the QB still gets off a quick throw? Our DBs are left on their own, and we see what goes on when that happens.
Or we drop people back, but that only leaves us with a 4 man rush and give the QB and receivers plenty of time to get open and make a play....

That's the difference between Denver and us. They have two DBs who are capable of being left on their own. So Denver has a tremendous amount of flexibility in what they want to do. They can send in 6 man rushes without praying that their DBs don't get burned. They can do pretty much anythng they want with their LB's because of how good their secondary is. That's a huge advantage, and a big reason why Dumervil, who prior to this year was no one special, is having such a great year.

I guess this is all just a roundabout way of saying that everything about our defense is to blame. Matty doesn't have the weapons his predecessors did. That much is painfully obvious. And the weapons that he does have, aren't being used to their full potential (Suggs, Reed), if at all (Kruger).

[hammer]

[quote name='biggkatt01' date='25 October 2009 - 04:27 PM' timestamp='1256502430' post='266093']
I hope everyone here took the time to watch the Steelers and Vikings game if you did't the Steelers won. Let me start off saying I hat the Steelers with every fiber of my beeing, now let me say did you see how a defensive game should be called.

Take note Greg Mattison, he should have been made to have to watch this game if he did then he would have seen what a big league defense can do when you have a great defensive coach and a great defensive scheme.

So all of you cheerleaders here that come on this forum and say oh our defense is ok you got a picture today of a excellent called defensive game.

Mattison can learn alot from Dick LeBeau, we need another defensive coordinator who calls games like LeBeau.
[/quote]

Another DUMB -4 Neg Rep for opinion. COMMUNISTS!

[Perfekt]

roughing the brady defined our game in NE and PI's defined the game in minn that only felt like they went one way. there was times when the viks defense was caught offsides but it wasnt always called. my point being that one bad call when its a close game does change the game but i do think the refs overlook certain plays.


its like i was taught when i first started playing basketball. certain refs are not going to cut you a break so why waste the time fighting with them. all that its going to do is cause them to focus on you more and call more stuff against you. which is the case with the ravens. we got mad because in all fairness we get bad calls atleast once a game.

do i think the steelers have their fair share of love from the refs yes but only when they are not playing americas teams like the pats or cowboys. you going to tell me yall didnt get a BS call in the afcg with the roughing the kicker. mean while i witnessed koch hit atleast 2 times this year and not once has a flag been dropped. im not hating on your team because they are not paying the refs but you cant deny the fact that bad calls change games.

[wayne]

[quote name='flynismo' date='26 October 2009 - 06:27 PM' timestamp='1256603247' post='266595']
Now, I agree that Harbs should take Matty out behind the shed and give the old man a good lickin'. I generally take up for Matty, but I'm also not blind to the fact that he could be doing a better job than he is now. A good DC who makes solid decisions and playcalls can make the whole larger than a sum of it's parts. A great exampe of that is in our upcoming game...[b]Denver has some talent on defense, but on paper, they probably aren't talented enough to be a top 5 defense, let alone the #1. Nolan probably is the main reason why they are able to be so effective.[/b]
I see what you're trying to say; if a 4 man blitz isn't working then send 5 or 6. If the DBs need help, drop a LB back or send both safeties in for support. And so on...

[b]#1. The problem is, when you compensate for one weakness, it magnifies the other one. What happens when we send in 6 and the rush doesn't get there fast enough? Or even if it does, but the QB still gets off a quick throw?[/b] Our DBs are left on their own, and we see what goes on when that happens.
Or we drop people back, but that only leaves us with a 4 man rush and give the QB and receivers plenty of time to get open and make a play....

[b]#2. That's the difference between Denver and us. They have two DBs who are capable of being left on their own. So Denver has a tremendous amount of flexibility in what they want to do. They can send in 6 man rushes without praying that their DBs don't get burned.[/b] They can do pretty much anythng they want with their LB's because of how good their secondary is. That's a huge advantage, and a big reason why Dumervil, who prior to this year was no one special, is having such a great year.

I guess this is all just a roundabout way of saying that everything about our defense is to blame. [b]#3. Matty doesn't have the weapons his predecessors did.[/b] That much is painfully obvious. And the weapons that he does have, aren't being used to their full potential (Suggs, Reed), if at all (Kruger).
[/quote]

To answer your first question, I will sort of answer it with another question. What happens to most teams when they send the blitz and it don't get there? You normally get burned with big gains by the O but you can't worry about that b/c blitzing is baisically a gamble ( high risk/high reward tatic )anyway and just like last year, Rex didn't worry about that and you can only hope the pressure gets in there more often than not getting in there.Sure, we got burned when it didn't get in there ( Holmes catch for like a 60 yd gain when Washington fell down being a main example )but it got in there a huge percentage more than it didn't. Ed Reed is built for pressure defenses and by us not getting that QB's are having enough time to look Reed off which last year they would have to be throwing it at that same time or get sacked with someone coming through freely from an overload blitz.

For your second input, you are right, Denver CB's ( I will say CB which is Champ, can't say Goodman or Smith is better than Foxworth or Fabe) are better than ours and wth better CB's comes more flexibility to blitz. But on the other hand, The Jury is still out on Foxworth b/c what if he were playing on a blitz happy team?Fabe showed us what he could do in a blitzing scheme last year and he did damn good. I remember a few years ago, Champ was getting alot of balls caught his way and you know why, their pass rush was terrible basically with these same players, Dumerville included.Also, Nolan is the main reason their D is what it is right now. I will take scheme over a team anyday and what I mean by that is you could take a core of average guys and put them in the best scheme to succeed and you could take a core of great guys and put them in a scheme that doesn't let them expose their strengths and I feel the core of average guys would perform alot better.

With the #3 statement that is obviously right but the predecessor that just left, his former teacher, basically had the same weapons at his exposal and we all know the story on that. Going back to Mike Nolan and the D-Cordinatoor for the Saints, Gregg Williams, pretty sure they are working with an all-time low talented defense personnell and look how they have them playing and thats the genius of good D-Cordinatoors, they can take average or below average personnell and make them perform great or good as a unit.

[flynismo]

[quote name='wayne' date='27 October 2009 - 02:33 AM' timestamp='1256625221' post='266703']
To answer your first question, I will sort of answer it with another question. What happens to most teams when they send the blitz and it don't get there? You normally get burned with big gains by the O but you can't worry about that b/c blitzing is baisically a gamble ( high risk/high reward tatic )anyway and just like last year, Rex didn't worry about that and you can only hope the pressure gets in there more often than not getting in there.Sure, we got burned when it didn't get in there ( Holmes catch for like a 60 yd gain when Washington fell down being a main example )but it got in there a huge percentage more than it didn't. Ed Reed is built for pressure defenses and by us not getting that QB's are having enough time to look Reed off which last year they would have to be throwing it at that same time or get sacked with someone coming through freely from an overload blitz.

For your second input, you are right, Denver CB's ( I will say CB which is Champ, can't say Goodman or Smith is better than Foxworth or Fabe) are better than ours and wth better CB's comes more flexibility to blitz. But on the other hand, The Jury is still out on Foxworth b/c what if he were playing on a blitz happy team?Fabe showed us what he could do in a blitzing scheme last year and he did damn good. I remember a few years ago, Champ was getting alot of balls caught his way and you know why, their pass rush was terrible basically with these same players, Dumerville included.Also, Nolan is the main reason their D is what it is right now. I will take scheme over a team anyday and what I mean by that is you could take a core of average guys and put them in the best scheme to succeed and you could take a core of great guys and put them in a scheme that doesn't let them expose their strengths and I feel the core of average guys would perform alot better.

With the #3 statement that is obviously right but the predecessor that just left, his former teacher, basically had the same weapons at his exposal and we all know the story on that. Going back to Mike Nolan and the D-Cordinatoor for the Saints, Gregg Williams, pretty sure they are working with an all-time low talented defense personnell and look how they have them playing and thats the genius of good D-Cordinatoors, they can take average or below average personnell and make them perform great or good as a unit.
[/quote]


You know, now that I think about it, maybe we should just send in a 6 man rush constantly. What's the worst that could happen....our DB will get burned? That happens enough as it is, so what the heck, may as well throw some punches back instead of waiting for them to score so that our offense can come out and play.
Which is basically what you seem to be saying; so yeah, if I were Matty, I'd be willing to try nearly anything at this point to redeem our defense.

[Bullitt_711]

[quote name='biggkatt01' date='25 October 2009 - 04:27 PM' timestamp='1256502430' post='266093']
I hope everyone here took the time to watch the Steelers and Vikings game if you did't the Steelers won. Let me start off saying I hat the Steelers with every fiber of my beeing, now let me say did you see how a defensive game should be called.

Take note Greg Mattison, he should have been made to have to watch this game if he did then he would have seen what a big league defense can do when you have a great defensive coach and a great defensive scheme.

So all of you cheerleaders here that come on this forum and say oh our defense is ok you got a picture today of a excellent called defensive game.

Mattison can learn alot from Dick LeBeau, we need another defensive coordinator who calls games like LeBeau.
[/quote]

There is no excuse for Walker and Washington to rape guys before they get the ball, sure you can say that has something to do with coaching, but the players got to play. As great as our defense was last year, the Steelers D was better. In this instance it comes down to our secondary Ed Reed vs.the world.