The Offense

[20ravens52]

We can no longer run the ball to set up the pass. After a lot of consideration it is simple.

Remember when the commentators made a quoted that pregame, John Harbaugh said that we need to run the ball first then pass. Needless to say the offense has been nonexistent that way. It was especially apparent that game. Watching the first half, and then the Second Half.

The second half we set up the run by passing first. That is why Ray Rice had so much room in the second half. He is not going to really move the pile, or run between the tackles, and that is becoming increasingly apparent. He needs room, and this is how we give him that room.

Short passes, Run the ball, Play action, and a few deep passes here and there too keep the defense moving back.

SET UP THE RUN, BY PASSING. Think about it.

[mhead66]

Not necessarily disagreeing with you... just remember - don't draw season-long strategy from the results of one game. Remember, the Vikes have led the NFL in run Defense for the last 3 seasons. I didn't expect much success to start the game in this one...

If passing to set up the run works, great - I've just been preaching that the run game can't be abandoned because of the success of the passing game. Last year, we were #1 in both rushing attempts and Time of possesion. This year, we're #19 in both rushing attempts and Time of possession.

Yes, the Offense is better - good news! But, if the D is less effective, the Offense has to continue to emphasize rushing, to keep the TOP higher and the other teams' Offense off the field.

Balance.

[20ravens52]

Well you can pretty much make the same conclusion from our other losses as well. Remember how easily we moved the ball in preseason when we were a pass first team. It really also sets up the run latter in the game.

[Andrew Smith]

I agree completely with the guy that started this thread. Everyone has game planned for this run on first and 2nd to set up the pass and its not working against good D's. I like the way we came out and shocked KC by passing on first and running on third. We kept them off balance all game and then we went back to the run to set up the pass when we played Cincy and it failed miserably. I'm not saying we need to change our strategy to pass to set up the run every game but at least lets change it up enough to keep all the Defensive Coordinators in utter confusion when they review the film. With Denver we need to focus on screens to stop the blitz and lots of short dumps to Heap when they bring the Blitz. Once they respect Flacco we can go back to power running with Mclain and Willis until they get tired then bring little Ray Rice in to slash and dash them to pieces.

[samic]

[quote name='mhead66' date='21 October 2009 - 09:25 PM' timestamp='1256174708' post='264386']
Not necessarily disagreeing with you... just remember - don't draw season-long strategy from the results of one game. Remember, the Vikes have led the NFL in run Defense for the last 3 seasons. I didn't expect much success to start the game in this one...

If passing to set up the run works, great - I've just been preaching that the run game can't be abandoned because of the success of the passing game. Last year, we were #1 in both rushing attempts and Time of possesion. This year, we're #19 in both rushing attempts and Time of possession.

Yes, the Offense is better - good news! But, if the D is less effective, the Offense has to continue to emphasize rushing, to keep the TOP higher and the other teams' Offense off the field.

Balance.
[/quote]

Wouldn't increasing our TOP while putting up the kind of points we have so far, cause teams to throw the ball more on us to score quickly and keep up? I foresee a lot of shootouts in our future if we do not step up on defense. We need to execute, period. You can't let another team dictate what you do. If teams want to play the run we still have to run the ball and outmatch them, be more physical than them. It's like, because Mason was shut down against Cincy, our passing game failed! You can't have that. You have to still go out there and execute, find a way to get completions and move the ball, pass or run. It's redundant to say that one sets up the other. They both go hand in hand to form a balanced offense.

[Alexir]

we are also 3-0 when we run the ball atleast 25 times....

[mhead66]

[quote name='samic' date='22 October 2009 - 02:22 AM' timestamp='1256192526' post='264500']
[b]Wouldn't increasing our TOP while putting up the kind of points we have so far, cause teams to throw the ball more on us to score quickly and keep up?[/b] I foresee a lot of shootouts in our future if we do not step up on defense. We need to execute, period. You can't let another team dictate what you do. If teams want to play the run we still have to run the ball and outmatch them, be more physical than them. It's like, because Mason was shut down against Cincy, our passing game failed! You can't have that. You have to still go out there and execute, find a way to get completions and move the ball, pass or run. It's redundant to say that one sets up the other. They both go hand in hand to form a balanced offense.
[/quote]
I agree with your post, but want to comment on the highlighted section...

Whether you score as the Offense has - with running (and the TOP higher) or by passing - teams will pass to catch up, in most cases. They will attack the D's weakness (currently pass defense) if we manage to get a big lead, whether we score by rushing or passing.

A balanced attack, with rushing adding to our TOP, will just give them less time to score, and will wear out their Defense.

[hammer]

[quote name='mhead66' date='22 October 2009 - 08:33 PM' timestamp='1256257981' post='264933']
I agree with your post, but want to comment on the highlighted section...

Whether you score as the Offense has - with running (and the TOP higher) or by passing - teams will pass to catch up, in most cases. They will attack the D's weakness (currently pass defense) if we manage to get a big lead, whether we score by rushing or passing.

[b]A balanced attack, with rushing adding to our TOP, will just give them less time to score, and will wear out their Defense.[/b][/quote]

Now THAT'S a great strategy when you are ALWAYS playing from behind. Sarcasim... yes. Let's just run out the clock when we are PERENIAL chasers.

[Perfekt]

like i been saying take what the defense is giving you. if they are weak against the pass then stick it to them thru the air. if they are terrible at stopping the run then smash in the mouth with the running game. we need to use their weakness to our advantage because you know they are going to prey on our secondary. think about the reason we gave up some many yards on the ground because if they get past our front 7 we have a weak secondary that cant tackle. really i feel like the rest of the defense is frustrated with how poor the secondary has been and its starting to show because the passion that we use to see is lacking as of late.

[mhead66]

[quote name='hammer' date='22 October 2009 - 08:38 PM' timestamp='1256258318' post='264937']
Now THAT'S a great strategy when you are ALWAYS playing from behind. Sarcasim... yes. Let's just run out the clock when we are PERENIAL chasers.
[/quote]
The poster I responded to said that opposing teams will react to the Ravens scoring lots of points, while holding a favorable TOP, by passing more - thereby exposing our pass D.

I stated that, regardless of how we score, teams will pass more, because of our questionable pass D (bad), and because teams trailing often pass more (good - because we're winning, if that's the case).

In other words, if we're leading, teams will pass more on our D, for those two reasons. If they're winning, they'll run more, to kill the clock.

I simply said that a balanced offense, while still scoring points, will enable us to tire their Defense, while giving their Offense less time to exploit our Pass Defense.

My post wasn't addressing our current difficulties. It's obvious that any team trailing doesn't want to "kill the clock".

[Andrew Smith]

Good point, the only reason winning was so easy last year when we ran the ball and controlled the clock was because our defense could still shut them down the majority of the time. We usually played with a lead and controlled the clock and game over. This year obviously that's not the case... if you can't stop them you have to be able to out gun sling em. I know the Cardinals are a bad example to use but I live in AZ now so I enjoy watching them play... although they had a horrible record they didn't make it to the playoffs by running the ball and controlling the clock since they knew their D had problems and sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. But what can you do in our situation?

[CorvusCorax]

[quote name='20ravens52' date='21 October 2009 - 09:16 PM' timestamp='1256174196' post='264376']

SET UP THE RUN, BY PASSING. Think about it.
[/quote]

I don't think it's ran that way. It's more like "show run, but pass instead" or "show pass but run". We must throw the defense off guard by showing run bu passing instead. Make them pay for stuffing 8-10 in the box or blitzing, just how some of our opponents did to our defense. I don't agree with your terminology, but I do get what you are saying.

[Dan The Man Ravens #1 Fan]

Im not an expert by any means but what I have seen over the past few years is a change in the philosophy of most offenses. It does seem to be a pass happy league, especially in the AFC. There are so many teams in the AFC with a quality QB that are putting up big numbers. There isnt much choice but to try and match point for point.

Great defenses do limit the big plays and sometimes reduce the amount of points, but this year has been weird. Even your so called power house defenses are getting ripped. Look at the Giants, Steelers, Titans, Bears, and yes the Ravens.

Like I said, I think we are witnessing some of the best, high powered offenses in history. Never before has it been this competative across the board. That is why we have become a pass first oriented team. There is nothing wrong with it. Plus things will quiet down a bit once the cold weather sets in.

[CorvusCorax]

[quote name='Dan The Man Ravens #1 Fan' date='22 October 2009 - 10:46 PM' timestamp='1256265984' post='265055']
Im not an expert by any means but what I have seen over the past few years is a change in the philosophy of most offenses. It does seem to be a pass happy league, especially in the AFC. There are so many teams in the AFC with a quality QB that are putting up big numbers. There isnt much choice but to try and match point for point.

Great defenses do limit the big plays and sometimes reduce the amount of points, but this year has been weird. Even your so called power house defenses are getting ripped. Look at the Giants, Steelers, Titans, Bears, and yes the Ravens.

Like I said, I think we are witnessing some of the best, high powered offenses in history. Never before has it been this competative across the board. That is why we have become a pass first oriented team. There is nothing wrong with it. Plus things will quiet down a bit once the cold weather sets in.
[/quote]

The more I look at the scores, the more I think this is the case. We also have to look at the fact that penalties are more designed to be in favor of offenses, with the exception of holding. I think we may be in just one of those phases in the sport where passing is more dominant.

If this is the case, boy am I glad we have our future franchise quarterback!

[Dan The Man Ravens #1 Fan]

[quote name='CorvusCorax' date='22 October 2009 - 11:06 PM' timestamp='1256267213' post='265066']
The more I look at the scores, the more I think this is the case. We also have to look at the fact that penalties are more designed to be in favor of offenses, with the exception of holding. I think we may be in just one of those phases in the sport where passing is more dominant.

If this is the case, boy am I glad we have our future franchise quarterback!
[/quote]

Without a doubt we were fortunate with the whole Joe Flacco deal. Dont forget, he wasnt even supposed to be our starter last year. Its amazing how things work out. I am so glad to have Flacco. It has become a points happy league. Look what the Patriots did the other night. You have to be able to answer to that. Our defense will, I repeat, will figure things out. We will continue to improve throughout the year. The offense will continue to put up a lot of points. We just need our D to not allow as many.

[kash96ravenstotalfan]

As I see it, the Ravens are now a "pass to setup the run" team. I don;t think that is so bad. If our D could plug the holes, on the run, and stop the pass we would be awesome. Thank God for our O