Are They Still Our Ravens

[ravensfolife]

No one take this the wrong way, I plan to be a Ravens fan forever. With that said I only liked the ravens during there super bowl year because I was a big hurricanes fan and thought highly of the way Ray played. I became a die hard prob 02 or 03. The swagger, the hard hits, and the intensity they played with game in and game out was unmatched. I don't mind change cuz the offense needed a makeover, but I feel like Harb's hass chnaged the culture of this team and I can't say I like it. I know this may be small but the all black uni's, that added to there swagger and he changed it cuz he didn't like all black? He doesn't like reed doing his own thing why? I'm not from Maryland or even close but if you didnt have a team would you pick these Ravens as your favorite team? Honestly I wouldn't because they don't play with the same heart, intensity and swagger that we all love.

[theFRANCHISE]

Harbaugh said he's building a dynasty -- dynasties take time to build. Give it more time.

Meanwhile, this whole thing about swagger is overrated -- swagger is an attitude. I'll take execution over attitude any day, and if you can't execute without a certain attitude, then you're basically lacking fundamentals and probably not worth your salt as a football player. Andre Johnson and Larry Fitzgerald don't appear to have swagger, yet they're two of the best wide-receivers in the game. Troy Polamalu doesn't appear to have swagger, yet he's one of the best safeties in the league. Nnamdi Asomugha doesn't appear to have swagger (none of the Raiders do), yet he's been one of the best corners in the league the past few years.

Swagger is overrated. It's just for show. Execution is all that matters.

[dethdude420]

Boo, I love what John has done with the team. The first thing he did when he got into town was put a play clock on the preseason drills. Which shows conditioning training right out the gate.
Even if I wasn't a Maryland boy home grown I'd love the Ravens, just happened that the Franchise came to town as I was a teen so since day one I started watching them. I'd say that I'm more proud of the team out there today than the 2000 team. John seems to be educating the players, not just feeding their ego's. That's the swagger that your talking about, it's Ego, and someone's ego can get in the way of their natural playing ability.
I could go on forever but I'll leave my response at that for now.

[ravensfolife]

[quote name='theFRANCHISE' date='21 October 2009 - 06:41 PM' timestamp='1256164887' post='264300']
Harbaugh said he's building a dynasty -- dynasties take time to build. Give it more time.

Yea of course swag doesnt go for much but it kinda tells me that they are excited to be there, and ready to make a play. I thought are old scheme was perfect because we could plug guys in and make them look good (bart scott). We both know if we ran a 4-3 his whole time here he would still be on s. teams.

[ravensfolife]

[quote name='dethdude420' date='21 October 2009 - 06:46 PM' timestamp='1256165208' post='264303']
Boo, I love what John has done with the team. The first thing he did when he got into town was put a play clock on the preseason drills. Which shows conditioning training right out the gate.
Even if I wasn't a Maryland boy home grown I'd love the Ravens, just happened that the Franchise came to town as I was a teen so since day one I started watching them. I'd say that I'm more proud of the team out there today than the 2000 team. John seems to be educating the players, not just feeding their ego's. That's the swagger that your talking about, it's Ego, and someone's ego can get in the way of their natural playing ability.
I could go on forever but I'll leave my response at that for now.
[/quote]
Thats your opinion, but imo we have a super bowl offense a defense that might not make the playoffs because of coaching egos (swagger)....sorry i love the team I just don't blindly follow without questioning the reason.

[Alexir]

No, this is not the same Raven team. We lost the defense. Simple as that. Its not just the secondary its the whole D. It sucks cuz like the old saying "Defense wins championships".

[theFRANCHISE]

[quote name='Alexir' date='21 October 2009 - 06:55 PM' timestamp='1256165722' post='264310']
No, this is not the same Raven team. We lost the defense. Simple as that. Its not just the secondary its the whole D. It sucks cuz like the old saying "Defense wins championships".
[/quote]
Statement's only half-true about "Defense Wins Championships" -- it's an offensive league once again, and the rules have changed so that you need a good offense to make it far in the playoffs. Notice that last year's top-ranked defenses have all fallen off like the Steelers, Titans, and even Giants.

The reason why that phrase was created was because a good defense is portable (meaning it'll play well in any condition, on any surface, against any team in winter, during the playoffs) -- but a good offense is necessary these days with the way the game has changed once again to protect QBs.

[dethdude420]

[quote name='ravensfolife' date='21 October 2009 - 05:53 PM' timestamp='1256165630' post='264307']
Thats your opinion, but [b]imo[/b] we have a super bowl offense a defense that might not make the playoffs because of coaching egos (swagger)....sorry i love the team I just don't blindly follow without questioning the reason.
[/quote]
You are right, IYO that's the thing about these forums. It's all everyone's opinions, you post a topic you get opinions. The funniest thing I read on here was yesterday when someone (I don't remember who) said something along the lines of....
I'm giving John Harbaugh a warning now...
What's so funny about that is this guys "warning" don't mean anything, it's an opinion.

[Alexir]

[quote name='theFRANCHISE' date='21 October 2009 - 06:58 PM' timestamp='1256165903' post='264312']
Statement's only half-true about "Defense Wins Championships" -- it's an offensive league once again, and the rules have changed so that you need a good offense to make it far in the playoffs. Notice that last year's top-ranked defenses have all fallen off like the Steelers, Titans, and even Giants.

The reason why that phrase was created was because a good defense is portable (meaning it'll play well in any condition, on any surface, against any team in winter, during the playoffs) -- but a good offense is necessary these days with the way the game has changed once again to protect QBs.
[/quote]


Giants won superbowl against the high octane Patriots offense.
Steelers win superbowl agains the passing attack of Arizona and the Running game of Seattle.
Even the Colts had a good Defense the year they won.

We will not be able to compete in the offseason unless our Defense changes.

[ravensfolife]

[quote name='Alexir' date='21 October 2009 - 06:55 PM' timestamp='1256165722' post='264310']
No, this is not the same Raven team. We lost the defense. Simple as that. Its not just the secondary its the whole D. It sucks cuz like the old saying "Defense wins championships".
[/quote]
losing players is one thing, even though I think we got better personnel. Losing the defensive intensity is another

[ravensfolife]

[quote name='dethdude420' date='21 October 2009 - 06:59 PM' timestamp='1256165953' post='264313']
You are right, IYO that's the thing about these forums. It's all everyone's opinions, you post a topic you get opinions. The funniest thing I read on here was yesterday when someone (I don't remember who) said something along the lines of....
I'm giving John Harbaugh a warning now...
What's so funny about that is this guys "warning" don't mean anything, it's an opinion.
[/quote]
lol I bet that showed harbs not to mess wit him

[dethdude420]

[quote name='ravensfolife' date='21 October 2009 - 06:03 PM' timestamp='1256166229' post='264317']
lol I bet that showed harbs not to mess wit him
[/quote]
That's exactly what I mean, unless your name is Ozzie Newsome, Steve Biscotti, Richard Cass.... well you get my point, your opinion doesn't really matter when it comes down to how things happen.

[theFRANCHISE]

[quote name='Alexir' date='21 October 2009 - 07:01 PM' timestamp='1256166078' post='264315']
Giants won superbowl against the high octane Patriots offense.
Steelers win superbowl agains the passing attack of Arizona and the Running game of Seattle.
Even the Colts had a good Defense the year they won.

We will not be able to compete in the offseason unless our Defense changes.
[/quote]
True, but notice that they (minus the Colts) also had good rushing attacks.

Though everyone is bemoaning the pass-run ratio right now of this team, keep in mind that other teams have stacked the box, perpetuating the need for more passes because runs have been shut down early. The idea is, offensive balance can be achieved once teams start to respect the pass, opening up runs later in the game (and later in the season.) The more off-balance this Ravens offense can keep defenses, the more it can mask any deficiencies that the defense has -- especially if they start to dominate in time-of-possession again. The Ravens only hold the ball an average of 5 minutes fewer than the top-ranked Saints offense -- those five minutes can easily be made up.

[ravensfolife]

Didnt expect or want anyone to agree, its just something that needed to b said

[Ravnet]

[quote name='ravensfolife' date='21 October 2009 - 06:36 PM' timestamp='1256164618' post='264295']
I know this may be small but the all black uni's, that added to there swagger and he changed it cuz he didn't like all black?[/quote]

I agree. Unless there was some tactical reason that he provided which I missed, then those things should honestly be left up to the fans. Again, though, if Harbaugh thought the uniforms helped opposing teams in some way, then I don't mind at all.

Similarly, I was pissed that Harbaugh got rid of mics, but he had a point in that players can now fully be themselves on the field without censoring emotions/words.

[quote]He doesn't like reed doing his own thing why?[/quote]

Reed does make a ton of big plays, but he probably screws up just as many times as a significant chunk of the huge plays surrendered by the Ravens are, in part, due to Reed gambling.

The interceptions that Ed makes look nasty as he jumps the route a full two seconds before the quarterback releases the ball, however when Reed misreads the quarterback, the play results in a receiver like Rice or Moss or Johnson one-on-one against Walker or Washington or Rolle with no safety help.

[Ravnet]

[quote name='theFRANCHISE' date='21 October 2009 - 06:58 PM' timestamp='1256165903' post='264312']
Statement's only half-true about "Defense Wins Championships" [/quote]

Offenses win games, defenses win championships.

Your offense can carry you throughout the regular season, but I think that because the playoffs feature so many quality teams, you need a defense.

The Colts never won until their defense finally kicked things into gear.

[ravensfolife]

Good someone sees my point of view

[mhead66]

[quote name='theFRANCHISE' date='21 October 2009 - 07:08 PM' timestamp='1256166501' post='264322']
True, but notice that they (minus the Colts) also had good rushing attacks.

Though everyone is bemoaning the pass-run ratio right now of this team, keep in mind that other teams have stacked the box, perpetuating the need for more passes because runs have been shut down early. The idea is, offensive balance can be achieved once teams start to respect the pass, opening up runs later in the game (and later in the season.) The more off-balance this Ravens offense can keep defenses, the more it can mask any deficiencies that the defense has -- especially if they start to dominate in time-of-possession again. The Ravens only hold the ball an average of 5 minutes fewer than the top-ranked Saints offense -- those five minutes can easily be made up.
[/quote]
Even though everyone enjoys the new, prolific Ravens offense, I'm not sure your theory - that the Ravens are rushing less this year is due to teams stacking the box - is accurate.

Last year, the Ravens offense was only 18th overall - mostly due to a 28th ranked passing game. This year, the O is ranked #7 overall, due to a #8 passing game. [b]Good stuff![/b]

However, the Ravens run game was #4 last year, and both rushing attempts and TOP was #1.
This year, the Ravens run game is #10, but both rushing attempts and TOP are #19.

1. If teams' stacking the box is causing the reduced rushing attempts, why didn't they stack the box last year, when we had a less effective passing attack?

2. Even though the rushing attack is still in the top 10, the attempts & TOP are down, leaving the D on the field longer. This, on the surface, would seem to be a fair trade-off, because we've scored more - but with a weaker D performance, if the Offense could still be effective with more rushing attempts/TOP (keeping the other teams' O off the field), wouldn't this be more effective?

[Ravenite]

[quote name='Ravnet' date='21 October 2009 - 07:51 PM' timestamp='1256172703' post='264367']
Offenses win games, defenses win championships.

Your offense can carry you throughout the regular season, but I think that because the playoffs feature so many quality teams, you need a defense.

The Colts never won until their defense finally kicked things into gear.
[/quote]

I kind of find similarities between that year and this year. The Colts offense was good, always been good but their defense that year was it's Achilles heel. I remember vividly that game where the Jaguars ran all over them and just flat out embarrassed them. People ruled out the Colts simply because of how their defense couldn't stop the run at all.

Their first task in the playoffs? Stop Larry Johnson (even though it was a home game.) Then go to one of the best team defensively and then hold their offense to only field goals (even though our team did the same and to me one of those classic Raven games) and then the rest is history to me.

So, yes it's apparent that the Ravens defense is slacking however, I think they need a wake up call and understand, do their assignment instead of just being out there and doing what they want to do, and get off the field.

Get good field position!!! Can't stress that one enough.

However, each phase of our team has a chip on their shoulder...

Patriots - Offense with Clayton's catch at the end of the game
Bengals - Defense penalties and letting the Bengals drive and score.
Vikings - Special Teams, make the field goal and we win but it didn't happen..

So, it's alot of things to look up at and alot of things to look down at, We still the same Ravens, we just got to play our ball.

[theFRANCHISE]

[quote name='mhead66' date='21 October 2009 - 09:17 PM' timestamp='1256174250' post='264377']
1. If teams' stacking the box is causing the reduced rushing attempts, why didn't they stack the box last year, when we had a less effective passing attack?

2. Even though the rushing attack is still in the top 10, the attempts & TOP are down, leaving the D on the field longer. This, on the surface, would seem to be a fair trade-off, because we've scored more - but with a weaker D performance, if the Offense could still be effective with more rushing attempts/TOP (keeping the other teams' O off the field), wouldn't this be more effective?
[/quote]
1) A lot of it has to do with the max-protect on the line (extra blocker) as well as Lorenzo Neal paving the way. This year, because we're passing more, we're not using max-protect as often. Also, even though the unbalanced line is not a new concept, it was new to this offense, so teams didn't have enough tape on it until towards the end of the season; hence why it worked much better early in the year than during the playoffs (it also helped that each team played in the playoffs was a regular-season opponent earlier.)

2) Generally, the idea that more rushing attempts (i.e. more T.O.P.) would keep the defense off the field is what Cam Cameron aims for with those early runs -- problem is, teams have shut down many of those early runs, mainly the past two weeks. Only the Pats and Chargers struggled to defend the run early in the game, but the playcalling against the Pats was poor to begin with, while the Chargers game was an issue of the lead changing so often. I just think it's a case of Cam getting away from the run too soon, [i]or[/i] teams not respecting the pass enough because they know we'll run to start the game. The only reason why the run worked so well in the second half against the Vikings was because that defense got complacent and expected Flacco to keep passing; instead, there was a level of offensive balance in that second half that we had been looking for all season.

And now, I've given myself a headache. lol.

[theFRANCHISE]

[quote name='Ravnet' date='21 October 2009 - 08:51 PM' timestamp='1256172703' post='264367']
Your offense can carry you throughout the [b]regular season[/b], but I think that because the [b]playoffs[/b] feature so many quality teams, you need a defense.
[/quote]
And that's why I say the statement is only half-true -- the assumption is that the defense needs to get back to its elite level [i]now.[/i] And though it's definitely ideal to have the defense performing at a high level, I'd only be panicked if we see these types of outings in late November and throughout December. In the meantime, I'm looking for marked improvement from week-to-week, and I'm hoping that we saw that in the second half of last week's game and carry it into the next game.

[Jamal]

I can see where your coming from, but its only the second season with Harb. I'll give it a another year or 2 before I'd say the whole team has changed.

[MJSMOOTH]

Ravens D don't suck. right now there not on the same page. ed reed has to be more smart, he has to take charge of the back field. Its simple pass ruch = good coverage in the back field. It starts up front. Nata is great but when he pass ruching he looks like he playing patty cake. Sugg is good too, but he's no Jared Allen(slightly overated).Pryce is just is a run stoper. I say let suggs play lineback, put johnson on the line ,let mcclain start,start kruger and let pryce be a DT and take gregg spot on the D. Rodney Harrison said we have personal issues and I agree.We do seriouly butWe got a offence and that alone makes me excited about this season

I said on here that having a good O will affect us from haveing a Good D because our O last year we ran the ball and controled the clock. this year we score quicker which mean our D is on the field more. We are breaking the Raven MOLD The formula. We just have to learn that this is a offensive team now. The culture is changing and I'm not sure if i'm ready to endure the growing pains

[LilyRaven]

I personally don't care about swagger. I'm also not a fan because I think the Ravens are going to the Super Bowl nor am I a fan because of location. What I like about the Ravens starts all the way at the top. I like Bisciotti. Everything I've read about him, every time I've heard him speak, what I know about how he runs his businesses, the man impresses me. There is an ethic here that some other teams don't seem to have.

There is an attitude to this team that has nothing to do with machismo. For lack of a better word, a certain rightness to how things are done. So while players and plays may change, the thing that got my attention is still there. I think as long as Bisciotti owns the Ravens it will continue to be.

[AwakenTheDemon]

Let's see.

Professional football team? Check.
Located in Baltimore, Maryland? Check.
Named the Ravens? Check.

Yup, they're still our Ravens. That was a silly question.

[Bosanac]

[quote name='AwakenTheDemon' date='22 October 2009 - 04:53 AM' timestamp='1256201618' post='264510']
Let's see.

Professional football team? Check.
Located in Baltimore, Maryland? Check.
Named the Ravens? Check.

Yup, they're still our Ravens. That was a silly question.
[/quote]
thanks for clearing that up

[PIG 20]

[quote name='ravensfolife' date='21 October 2009 - 06:36 PM' timestamp='1256164618' post='264295']
No one take this the wrong way, I plan to be a Ravens fan forever. With that said I only liked the ravens during there super bowl year because I was a big hurricanes fan and thought highly of the way Ray played. I became a die hard prob 02 or 03. The swagger, the hard hits, and the intensity they played with game in and game out was unmatched. I don't mind change cuz the offense needed a makeover, but I feel like Harb's hass chnaged the culture of this team and I can't say I like it. I know this may be small but the all black uni's, that added to there swagger and he changed it cuz he didn't like all black? He doesn't like reed doing his own thing why? I'm not from Maryland or even close but if you didnt have a team would you pick these Ravens as your favorite team? Honestly I wouldn't because they don't play with the same heart, intensity and swagger that we all love.[/quote]

I'm going to put this in the nicest possible way that I can. While I enjoy that you are an "out of state fan" of the Ravens, there are just some passions that you will never ever have for this team because you don't live here.

[German Raven]

"Hallo" from Bavaria Germany!

I was at ravens vs. browns during my USA holiday! It was an amazing game I loved it and since that day, I´m infected by the purple virus!
Now I have to see, since that time they lost every game?!! Unbelievable!!
But no reversal can stop a true supporter! In Germany we say: Bad times are for true fans and so they are still our Ravens!

Best regards and take care!

PS. I´m missing ESPN!

[AwakenTheDemon]

[quote name='PIG 20' date='22 October 2009 - 07:33 AM' timestamp='1256214809' post='264529']
I'm going to put this in the nicest possible way that I can. While I enjoy that you are an "out of state fan" of the Ravens, there are just some passions that you will never ever have for this team because you don't live here.
[/quote]

By that logic, there's certain passions you will never have because you aren't a Ravens fan living in the Pittsburgh area

[FlaccoFlicker]

[quote name='theFRANCHISE' date='21 October 2009 - 06:41 PM' timestamp='1256164887' post='264300']

[b]Swagger is overrated. It's just for show. Execution is all that matter[/b]s.
[/quote]
hey Jack Swagger is a great talent on Raw
sorry getting back to topic
this team will always be my team unless they disappear in the middleof the night!