Go Back To The 3-4 Please!

[wayne]

There is one common sense saying that we have all heard , " If it ain't broke, don't try to fix it"! I just don't understand how Mattison has changed the identity of this defense up so much. When the Ravens finally have an offensive, down goes the defense.

[b]Why did we switch from a 3-4 base to a 4-3?[/b] Everyone knows that a 3-4 defense brings more confusion to the table, hence the nickname we use to have which was " Organize Chaos "! From the snap of the ball our D looks so vanilla that I feel I can go out there and make easy reads against them. What happen to everyone showing blitz and moving around which confuses QB's with overload blitzes and stunts? The Saints D are playing like our D use to. Eli didn't see the pressure coming most of the time and thats the key. You know it's coming but you don't know where from. I can see teams like the Colts or the Giants staying in a Tampa 2 type of a scheme but thats not for us!

Ok, if we are going to run a 4-3 base D, [b]why are we sitting back only rushing our front 4 like we the Tampa Bay Buccs of of 2001[/b]? We really don't have pass rushing lineman, they are built to stop the run. I get it, seeing Suggs, Gregg, Ngata, and Pryce on the field at the same time and you would think they would cause havoc for any O-line in the league but thats not the case. When we did blitz Favre that was when the most 3 and outs for the Viks took place. It took the vikings to score 2 TD's on us for Mattison to finally start blitzing in the second quarter at that.Our CB's will continue to get tourched if something don't change. As we see, our CB's are average at best with blazing speed so not blitzing and leaving them out to dry 1- on - 1 is not working ( reason I don't blame Ed Reed on alot of the big plays we having giving up is b/c what he is doing is what Reed has been doing his whole career, you take that from him and it's not the same Ed Reed. I can say that he needs to go against the grain a little of how he plays but I would rather us sign McAlister back and Rolle returns from his injury than Reed to change his style of play).

Please go back to whats been working for the Ravens in the past ( last year ) Mattison, the 3-4 D with overload blitzes and players moving around to confuse the QB. I understand you want your own identity in a way that you don't want to be overshadowed by Rex Ryan your whole career but at the rate you going, none of that will even matter!

[b]( I know I repeated myself in this post but thats how frustrated I am with our D )[/b]

[Alexir]

I think losing Rex Ryan hurt us but the fact he took Pettine with him hurt us even more.

[tweety]

Agreed!!!! To the millionth power!!! Forward this to Mattison RIGHT NOW!!!

Ed Reed expecting 4 seconds to make a play and getting 6 is a large difference. The 4-3 is giving the opposing team an extra check down or two. Kruger/Ngata/Pryce for DLine || Suggs/Lewis/Johnson/Gooden for LB.

[20ravens52]

[quote name='tweety' date='18 October 2009 - 11:30 PM' timestamp='1255923018' post='261886']
Agreed!!!! To the millionth power!!! Forward this to Mattison RIGHT NOW!!!

Ed Reed expecting 4 seconds to make a play and getting 6 is a large difference. The 4-3 is giving the opposing team an extra check down or two. Kruger/Ngata/Pryce for DLine || Suggs/Lewis/Johnson/Gooden for LB.
[/quote]

That should be it...Just do it.

[Ed_Reed_Pick_Six]

Yep, I want 3-4 back as well.

[RonTN226]

Great Post!! I totally agree with you on the 3-4 scheme defense. We used to use it more than anything... Even on 3rd and Long. I think you hit the nail right on the head about Mattison trying for his own identity. However, I think he has simply taken our players out of their own game. Out of their own identity. Each player has a specific style of play. Some have several but most have that one thing about them that they can just excel at. I think some of our additions to our defense are trying to be something they aren't. Not everyone is cut out for being all out aggressive and yet still play smart. I originally thought that the Rex Ryan defensive program would for the most part be kept in place as much as possible but I guess not. But if Mattison expects to stick around for a while with the kind of performance that is being shown. He might want to re-think what strategy he is trying to employ. There is a thing called confusing the opposing O-lines....

[Ed_Reed_Pick_Six]

I miss those overload blitzes, they were always great at generating pressure on QBs.

[BloodRaven]

I don't buy it. A 3-4 may give a edge in pass-rushing but leaks against the run.

The 4-3 is coming back, look at the Pats. Transitioning takes time but its for the better.

[Alexir]

[quote name='BloodRaven' date='19 October 2009 - 02:22 AM' timestamp='1255933322' post='262024']
I don't buy it. A 3-4 may give a edge in pass-rushing but leaks against the run.

The 4-3 is coming back, look at the Pats. Transitioning takes time but its for the better.
[/quote]


That is the stupidest comment you have ever wrote and I am surprised it is coming from you.

A 3-4 doesnt leak the run.

Out of the top 5 rush defenses in the league, 4 of them run a 3-4.

Arizona
Pittsburgh
Miami
Denver

The personnel we have on our team is for a 3-4. Suggs is a better OLB than putting his hand down in the front 4.

[BloodRaven]

[quote name='Alexir' date='19 October 2009 - 01:45 AM' timestamp='1255934737' post='262032']
That is the stupidest comment you have ever wrote and I am surprised it is coming from you.

A 3-4 doesnt leak the run.

Out of the top 5 rush defenses in the league, 4 of them run a 3-4.

Arizona
Pittsburgh
Miami
Denver
The personnel we have on our team is for a 3-4. Suggs is a better OLB than putting his hand down in the front 4.
[/quote]

Then on the other end of the run-D spectrum you have Cleveland, Chargers and the Chiefs.

So allow me to elaborate a bit, data from a 5 game spread is probably a bit misleading, over a 17 game regular season last year 3 of the top 5 teams were 4-3 teams.

So really, there isn't a real formula, it could be we're just trying to look after Ray? whatever it is we seem to be stuck with it.

[ChrisC]

I totally agree. Our defense just looks passive out there. We dont have the corners to let a good quarterback stand back there all day and wait for someone to come open. They are going to uncover deep and get the ball. Check the last two weeks. The deep ball is where we are getting beat so help Foxworth,Walker, and the rest of the secondary out and pressure those QB's. Reed's not getting picks because the QB has all day to figure out where he is and throw to whichever of the three open recievers is farthest from him.

[Gtown Purple]

I think we are better built for a 3-4. Our linemen except for suggs are mostly run stuffers. I think suggs is more dynamic from the lb postion instead of from the 3 point stance.

[H8R]

A 3-4 allows for more of a plug in the middle of the field ( behind the d-line). With a 4-3, we are getting beat in the middle of the field by the PASSING game and missed tackles. The 4-3 creates a large gap, that if a tackle is missed its going to be a BIG Gain. Tackling is ALWAYS important but in a 4-3 if you can't tackle well, you're asking to get exposed. We don't have an edge rusher, Pryce is a bull rusher this stage in his career and Suggs is better when he's not a down lineman.

[RavensClaw52]

I honestly think if we went back to a 3-4 mid season we might struggle just a bit in certain situations at first but it would definatly cut down on the huge plays we give up, so im all for it.

[WinnipegRaven]

Really makes you curious... With the talent and depth of our LB's why the heck we haven't gone back to a 3-4 yet is a mystery. Ngata/Pryce/Gregg seems like a formidable front 3 to me and with Suggs/Lewis/Gooden/JJ (Brandon - we miss you!) bringing the heat one has to think that it would do wonders for our pass rush. I'm starting to be of the belief that our lack of pass rush/pocket collapsing is giving the opposing QB way too much time. Fix the pass rush, fix the big plays we are giving up on a far too consistent basis.

[ravensfolife]

Hopefully they come out of the bye with 3-4 base...

[TSizzle00]

[quote name='20ravens52' date='19 October 2009 - 01:45 AM' timestamp='1255931127' post='262001']
That should be it...Just do it.
[/quote]

BRING BACK THE 3-4!!

[Bltravens]

[quote name='Gtown Purple' date='19 October 2009 - 05:53 AM' timestamp='1255953235' post='262073']
I think we are better built for a 3-4. Our linemen except for suggs are mostly run stuffers. I think suggs is more dynamic from the lb postion instead of from the 3 point stance.
[/quote]
Suggs best trait is his versatility that he offers, he can drop in coverage, cover in man , blitz and seal the edge. I dont know why we would take those things away from him in the first place.

[FerrariFan87]

I'm confused... if I recall correctly, we've technically played all year in the 3-4 look with Gregg, Ngata and Pryce on the DL with Suggs, Gooden, Ray Ray, and JJ at LB?

[Bltravens]

[quote name='BloodRaven' date='19 October 2009 - 01:29 AM' timestamp='1255937363' post='262041']
Then on the other end of the run-D spectrum you have Cleveland, Chargers and the Chiefs.

So allow me to elaborate a bit, data from a 5 game spread is probably a bit misleading, over a 17 game regular season last year 3 of the top 5 teams were 4-3 teams.

So really, there isn't a real formula, it could be we're just trying to look after Ray? whatever it is we seem to be stuck with it.
[/quote]
Your totally right, the 3-4 requires perfect gap control and plugging. If just 1 guy blows his gap its potentially a huge run, the Titans playoff game was a prime example of that with CJ, its not like he was running around everyone that game he was actually running between the tackles and our gap integrity was aweful and our Dline was getting pushed back into our linebackers which caused confusion and disorientation leading to the massive gains. The Dline in a 3-4 has to be incredibly active to control gaps, when the Oline moves on a run off tackle the entire Dline has to slide gaps to keep lineman off the linebackers. In a 4-3 gap integrity is much easier to maintain. The Steelers run D is stout because Polamalu flies up into the box to create a 5th linebacker, and because Hampton is a 900 pound roadblock. Denver has the same thing in Dawkins, he flies up to the LOS on run plays and plays around the box constantly much like Troy. SD, KC, and Cleveland have none of that and thus they suffer. It does appear Mattison is trying to highlight Ray, and I mean its good in principle hes the best playmaking LB we have and hes on his way to having the best season hes had since 04, its too bad Ray has no backend help or pass rush help because really hes on his way to not just another All Pro year but back to the form he was in his prime. Mattisons switch may also have to do with Gooden. I said it awhile ago but Gooden isnt a thumper like Scott and Hartwell were. Which is fine hes still a promising LB but hes more suited to Rays role than he is to fill Barts. And with everyone wanting Tavares to be Rays successor you have to get him on the field.

Ps I thought Gooden played really well yesterday, hes still inconsistent at times but I thought he played up to his potential.

[WinnipegRaven]

[quote name='FerrariFan87' date='19 October 2009 - 11:32 AM' timestamp='1255973534' post='262391']
I'm confused... if I recall correctly, we've technically played all year in the 3-4 look with Gregg, Ngata and Pryce on the DL with Suggs, Gooden, Ray Ray, and JJ at LB?
[/quote]
Must have missed the memo I guess... We have been playing out of a 4-3 base this year, first time since 2000.

[FerrariFan87]

[quote name='WinnipegRaven' date='19 October 2009 - 02:05 PM' timestamp='1255975545' post='262437']
Must have missed the memo I guess... We have been playing out of a 4-3 base this year, first time since 2000.
[/quote]

I guess I did... it's just that whenever they show the starting lineups it's always 3 DL and 4 LB, which usually indicates a 3-4, no?

[Bltravens]

[quote name='WinnipegRaven' date='19 October 2009 - 12:05 PM' timestamp='1255975545' post='262437']
Must have missed the memo I guess... We have been playing out of a 4-3 base this year, first time since 2000.
[/quote]
to bust ur chops first time since 01

[Alexir]

[quote name='BloodRaven' date='19 October 2009 - 03:29 AM' timestamp='1255937363' post='262041']
Then on the other end of the run-D spectrum you have Cleveland, Chargers and the Chiefs.

So allow me to elaborate a bit, data from a 5 game spread is probably a bit misleading, over a 17 game regular season last year 3 of the top 5 teams were 4-3 teams.

So really, there isn't a real formula, it could be we're just trying to look after Ray? whatever it is we seem to be stuck with it.
[/quote]

all you did was name 3 teams that dont have the personnel. We do have the personnel for the 3-4 and it is proven by our number 2 defense last year.

[die_hard_raven]

[quote name='tweety' date='18 October 2009 - 11:30 PM' timestamp='1255923018' post='261886']
Agreed!!!! To the millionth power!!! Forward this to Mattison RIGHT NOW!!!

Ed Reed expecting 4 seconds to make a play and getting 6 is a large difference. The 4-3 is giving the opposing team an extra check down or two. Kruger/Ngata/Pryce for DLine || Suggs/Lewis/Johnson/Gooden for LB.
[/quote]

I'm with you!!!! I also said the letting Jim Leonard get away to the Jets was a mistake. Not only was he a MAJOR help on special teams he was a play maker. He played the run well, blitzed well, he fit in with us perfect. Granted I don't always feel our players are put in the best position to make plays, you also need the player that are out there capable of making the play. No scheme can work without the players to execute it and with the poor pass coverage we have we need the Organized Chaos more than ever!

[Haloti Hell]

Leonard was a good fit in our D, I liked that kid a lot. He played with enthusiasm and sense of pride, it was a shame losing him.

[XxSizzleXx]

[quote name='BloodRaven' date='19 October 2009 - 12:22 AM' timestamp='1255933322' post='262024']
I don't buy it. A 3-4 may give a edge in pass-rushing but leaks against the run.

The 4-3 is coming back, look at the Pats. Transitioning takes time but its for the better.
[/quote]

I'm not buying this either especially when nearly ALL of our D-linemen are built first and foremost to STOP THE RUN.

[Perfekt]

i said the same thing last week but to be honest i dont see it happening. i think mattison feels that the defense he is running is a good defense because he refuses to make changes lol.

[MagicianCamille]

[quote name='BloodRaven' date='19 October 2009 - 02:22 AM' timestamp='1255933322' post='262024']
I don't buy it. A 3-4 may give a edge in pass-rushing but leaks against the run.

The 4-3 is coming back, look at the Pats. Transitioning takes time but its for the better.
[/quote]

39-game streak of no rushers going over 100 yards was when we were in the 3-4. In the 4-3 we've given up 100+ yards to a rusher twice this year.

[ravensfolife]

[quote name='FerrariFan87' date='19 October 2009 - 01:32 PM' timestamp='1255973534' post='262391']
I'm confused... if I recall correctly, we've technically played all year in the 3-4 look with Gregg, Ngata and Pryce on the DL with Suggs, Gooden, Ray Ray, and JJ at LB?
[/quote]
Suggs is hybrid meaing he plays both de and lb but when playing de he has to line up against Lt. As lb he has more levrage and can speed rush the edge. Plus can drop back in coverage. In short as u can see, it just dont work