The Cornerbacks Are Not The Problem.

[flynismo]

[quote name='reediddy' date='14 October 2009 - 06:12 PM' timestamp='1255558320' post='257247']
Frank Walker is easily our most physical cornerback...switch him with Carr, please!!! stop hatin on frank!!!
[/quote]


Well, if I had to choose between Walker and Carr, it would be Walker, hands down.
Really not saying much, though. Walker's not a guy I want on the field more than necessary.

[T-Sizzle55]

Greg Mattison's play calling might not be as terrible as I once thought (although could be better). He is calling plays as if our CBs can cover well 1-on-1 down field. They are leaving him high and dry. Chuck Pagano needs to light a fire under these guys and get a great week of practice out of them. We could also use Rolle back which will re-energize our secondary. We need to play a lot smarter and play like disciplined soldiers. Our players are very passionate and emotional players, but teams are using that against us. If we cut out the 15 yard penalties then we'd be undefeated. We need to maintain our composure and say "child please" with a win. The only way to get back at teams, players, and refs is to come away with a "W" bottom line.

[T-Sizzle55]

How would you all feel in cutting Carr and signing Roderick Hood?

http://www.nfl.com/players/roderickhood/profile?id=HOO217532

Does anyone remember Gary Baxter? He's still out there even though he blew out both his knees (tore the patella tendons in both knees).

"He is the first NFL player to suffer such an injury in 13 years. On July 30, 2007, Baxter returned to practice, although in limited capacity. The recovery, which surprised and confounded many doctors close to Baxter, marked the first time that a player had returned to the field of play after such a devastating injury. On August 9, 2008 he was released by the Browns." -Wiki

Just thinking out loud

[flynismo]

[quote name='T-Sizzle55' date='14 October 2009 - 06:40 PM' timestamp='1255560050' post='257263']
Greg Mattison's play calling might not be as terrible as I once thought (although could be better). He is calling plays as if our CBs can cover well 1-on-1 down field. [/quote]


That's what I've been saying the entire time about him. He relies on the DBs to do the job assigned to them, particularly man coverage from our corners.
Rex was often the same way.

The difference between now and then is that Matty doesnt have the talent to work with that Ryan did.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='T-Sizzle55' date='14 October 2009 - 06:53 PM' timestamp='1255560817' post='257267']
How would you all feel in cutting Carr and signing Roderick Hood?

http://www.nfl.com/players/roderickhood/profile?id=HOO217532

Does anyone remember Gary Baxter? He's still out there even though he blew out both his knees (tore the patella tendons in both knees).

"He is the first NFL player to suffer such an injury in 13 years. On July 30, 2007, Baxter returned to practice, although in limited capacity. The recovery, which surprised and confounded many doctors close to Baxter, marked the first time that a player had returned to the field of play after such a devastating injury. On August 9, 2008 he was released by the Browns." -Wiki

Just thinking out loud
[/quote]

Hood isn't great but I know he could do better than Carr.

As for Baxter, what happened to him was terrible but he's not worth bringing in to play safety let alone corner. He wasn't even that good of a corner before his injuries.

I personally think Carr's days as the nickel are numbered but the coaches don't trust Webb completely with the return-duties so they're going to keep Carr. Despite his big return after Cincy scored, the coaches pulled Webb in favor of Carr for the final kick return.

[darklight1216]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' date='14 October 2009 - 07:42 PM' timestamp='1255563733' post='257293']
Hood isn't great but I know he could do better than Carr.
[/quote]
Can't just about everyone do better than Carr?
[quote]
As for Baxter, what happened to him was terrible but he's not worth bringing in to play safety let alone corner. He wasn't even that good of a corner before his injuries.

I personally think Carr's days as the nickel are numbered but [b]the coaches don't trust Webb completely[/b] with the return-duties so they're going to keep Carr. Despite his big return after Cincy scored, the coaches pulled Webb in favor of Carr for the final kick return.
[/quote]
I wonder why that is... I mean the worst Webb could do is drop balls and get burned on coverage. Carr does this already so what is there to lose?

[Ed_Reed_Pick_Six]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' date='15 October 2009 - 10:09 AM' timestamp='1255558176' post='257244']
People don't realize, Washington has actually played well this year.
[/quote]
I agree, he's our number one corner so far.

[T-Sizzle55]

Roderick Hood is 5'11" 198 lbs. and we need a more physical corners than what we have. Fabian Washington is tackling better because he's been going for people's feet. I like Webb, but I want a CB like C-Mac or Walker who has bulk, can press a WR, push them off their route, and HIT! I want opposing WRs to hesitate when catching the football because they're too worried about getting hit Hood is a seasoned Vet that has 20 lbs. on both Carr and Webb and can lay some wood.

[McBoller]

well, in a way you're right...Theyre not the ONLY problem, and there are plenty who agree.

"I don’t really like their corners, and I think everybody knows those corners can be exploited," Williamson said of Domonique Foxworth and Fabian Washington. "Ed Reed back there is still great and people are afraid of him, no question about that. But because of the corners and because of the new coordinator [Greg Mattison], they’re not as aggressive. Rex Ryan used to really light it up and bring the heat, and his corners weren’t great either."
-Matt Williamson of "Scouts inc"

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='McBoller' date='15 October 2009 - 04:42 PM' timestamp='1255639354' post='257813']
well, in a way you're right...Theyre not the ONLY problem, and there are plenty who agree.

"I don’t really like their corners, and I think everybody knows those corners can be exploited," Williamson said of Domonique Foxworth and Fabian Washington. "Ed Reed back there is still great and people are afraid of him, no question about that. But because of the corners and because of the new coordinator [Greg Mattison], they’re not as aggressive. Rex Ryan used to really light it up and bring the heat, and his corners weren’t great either."
-Matt Williamson of "Scouts inc"
[/quote]

Williamson may be of Scouts Inc. but I think he's forgetting about C-Mac and Rolle. Rex had both Samari and C-Mac as his corners during his entire tenure as the DC. I remember Rex bringing the house seemingly on every play in '06. However, he could that because both McAlister and Rolle could be trusted on island. In '07, whenever he sent the house the bums that filled in McAlister and Rolle got dusted.

[T-Sizzle55]

Dwan Edwards and Kelly Gregg NEED to step up!! They need to get into the back field and get the QB on the ground. our DT Haloti Ngata and NT Kelly Gregg combine for a total of only 0.5 sacks. Trevor Pryce leads our D-Line with 3 sacks.

So i have a crazy idea to test out for Mattison:

| McClain | Lewis | Barnes |

| Suggs/Kruger | Ngata | Pryce | Johnson/Suggs |

This formation has speed, power, and all of our producers in sacks or that has the most sack potential.

What do you all think?

(I'm open to switching OLBs because Barnes worked with Heap in the off-season, so he can cover TEs with his speed, but he sacked Brady on the other side in 07 and recorded a INT on the other side agaisnt SD. McClain was moved to ILB so coaches must have seen good cover skills over the middle as well and he sacked JaMarkus Russel for a safety on the other side.)

[Bltravens]

[quote name='T-Sizzle55' date='15 October 2009 - 03:16 PM' timestamp='1255641408' post='257851']
Dwan Edwards and Kelly Gregg NEED to step up!! They need to get into the back field and get the QB on the ground. our DT Haloti Ngata and NT Kelly Gregg combine for a total of only 0.5 sacks. Trevor Pryce leads our D-Line with 3 sacks.

So i have a crazy idea to test out for Mattison:

| McClain | Lewis | Barnes |

| Suggs | Ngata | Pryce | Johnson |

This formation has speed, power, and all of our producers in sacks or that has the most sack potential.

What do you all think?

(I'm open to switching OLBs because Barnes worked with Heap in the off-season, so he can cover TEs with his speed, but he sacked Brady on the other side in 07 and recorded a INT on the other side agaisnt SD. McClain was moved to ILB so coaches must have seen good cover skills over the middle as well and he sacked JaMarkus Russel for a safety on the other side.)
[/quote]
Looks like my 4-3 defense in Madden lol. While the front 4 looks good the linebackers just got immediately worse somehow. Mcclain has been aweful in coverage, and Barnes was never very good in pass coverage. Its a very athletic LB unit now, but unproven and potentially disastrous. On the flip side I dont like how Harbaugh and Mattison dont even attempt to use some of our linebackers in different roles, how are they supposed to grow and get better if you dont play them?

[PuRock]

[quote name='Bltravens' date='15 October 2009 - 05:20 PM' timestamp='1255641616' post='257854']
Looks like my 4-3 defense in Madden lol. While the front 4 looks good the linebackers just got immediately worse somehow. Mcclain has been aweful in coverage, and Barnes was never very good in pass coverage. Its a very athletic LB unit now, but unproven and potentially disastrous. On the flip side I dont like how Harbaugh and Mattison dont even attempt to use some of our linebackers in different roles, how are they supposed to grow and get better if you dont play them?
[/quote]

Not only that. If I were the Vikings. I'd just start running the ball to the right. Johnson is a great pass-rusher but isn't DE worthy like Suggs.

This formation sounds great if we were on an obvious all-blitz play.

[J-man]

It's a combination of our corners and pass rush. IF we put pressure on the QB, he would throw it sooner then he wants to and usually into coverage, it's not rocket science.

[ravensfan6892]

[quote name='bce086' date='13 October 2009 - 11:40 AM' timestamp='1255448459' post='256065']
Walker > Carr anyday. He's the most physical corner on our roster.
[/quote]


Physical doesn't always mean good, every time i see 41 its because he gets the ball thrown right by him and the offense scores. We need a good slot corner, Carr and Walker are both horrible, I say work Webb in and see what he can do, test him and see where we go from there.

[T-Sizzle55]

[quote name='Bltravens' date='15 October 2009 - 05:20 PM' timestamp='1255641616' post='257854']
Looks like my 4-3 defense in Madden lol. While the front 4 looks good the linebackers just got immediately worse somehow. Mcclain has been aweful in coverage, and Barnes was never very good in pass coverage. Its a very athletic LB unit now, but unproven and potentially disastrous. On the flip side I dont like how Harbaugh and Mattison dont even attempt to use some of our linebackers in different roles, how are they supposed to grow and get better if you dont play them?
[/quote]


My point was that Mattison is trying to turn a 3-4 defense into a 4-3 defense without prototypical 4-3 style players. Not many successful 4-3 DEs are 290 lbs. or above.

For instance:
Jared Allen - 270 lbs.
Adewale Ogunleye - 260 lbs.
Osi Umenyiora - 261 lbs.
Mathias Kiwanuka - 265 lbs.
Justin Tuck - 275 lbs.
Julius Peppers - 280 lbs.

Our "DEs" are listed as DTs because they are originally 3-4 DE's that are bigger than typical 4-3 DEs, so they require double teams to eat up the line. They are not speed rushers they are meant to attack the run, eat up space, and free up LBs to blitz, make plays, and cause havoc for the offense. Our LBs are big strong fast 3-4 hybrid DE/OLBs. Suggs, Kruger, and Johnson were all DEs in college and Johnson was originally a 300 lbs. DE for his 1st year in the NFL until he cut 35 lbs. and became a LB. I think they have the skill set to play DE and they were originally pure pass rushing DEs when we got them.

I agree, eventhough McClain and Barnes are good athletes, they are still raw. I would like to see the formation just to see how it works out, but the only conclusion one could reach from this little experiment is that we are a bonified 3-4 Defense. Don't try to make this vicious tiger change its stripes.

[T-Sizzle55]

[quote name='ravensfan6892' date='15 October 2009 - 05:47 PM' timestamp='1255643262' post='257869']
Physical doesn't always mean good, every time i see 41 its because he gets the ball thrown right by him and the offense scores. We need a good slot corner, Carr and Walker are both horrible, I say work Webb in and see what he can do, test him and see where we go from there.
[/quote]

I remember when Walker was put in against SD, he made a great play to save a TD catch. I like Webb. He's a physical player who has a nose for the football and can make plays, but he is 175 lbs and needs to add mass or he's going to get pushed around like our other CBs. Walker can tackle fairly well and blitz much better than Carr. The only problem is that he makes the refs to throw more flag than people throw rice at a wedding.

[BeastModeOn]

[quote name='flynismo' date='14 October 2009 - 06:39 PM' timestamp='1255563562' post='257290']
That's what I've been saying the entire time about him. He relies on the DBs to do the job assigned to them, particularly man coverage from our corners.
Rex was often the same way.

The difference between now and then is that Matty doesnt have the talent to work with that Ryan did.
[/quote]
what r u guys talking about. we have the same talent, and we upgraded at corner in dom foxworth. what the hell??? lol, we were 2nd in the pass last year under ryan with rolle and fabian. fabian is the man!!!! dom is coming around and he will continue to do better each and every game.. where r u seeing we lost talent??? maybe bart scott, but who else.??? common now, mattison switched us to a 4-3 which we are not good at. we are meant to be a 3-4, man u guys have to watch every play and see what our defense does.. and its totally different than ryans D. so i put blame on mattison, pass rush.. and safety and linebackers coverage.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='T-Sizzle55' date='15 October 2009 - 11:25 PM' timestamp='1255663519' post='258004']
I remember when Walker was put in against SD, he made a great play to save a TD catch. I like Webb. He's a physical player who has a nose for the football and can make plays, but he is 175 lbs and needs to add mass or he's going to get pushed around like our other CBs. Walker can tackle fairly well and blitz much better than Carr. The only problem is that he makes the refs to throw more flag than people throw rice at a wedding.
[/quote]

I know it's not a huge difference Wbb actually weighed in at 179lbs. at the Combine. He hasn't completely filled out his frame yet but he's feisty and plays bigger than he is. Foxworth, Washington and Carr don't seem to like contact but he does. I agree about Walker and that's probably why he won't see the field much.

I know it's a practice but he's a video on Webb. The guy has no problem with mixing it up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2Q6JJX8uQ8

Get him on the field.

[rlh445]

I don't think it's our pass rush at all. Yes, I watch the games. What I am seeing is that our front four dig in, and although they don't get significant pressure every play, they do it often enough so as to force a throw. What I am also seeing is our CBs looking around at each other like chickens, sans heads. Fox and Carr seem to go onto the field wearing ballerina shoes, slipping all over the place, Fabs is constantly looking to Reed and Landry for over the top help when he's stuck on an island, and Landry just doesn't seem like he's gotten back in the groove yet. I hope things get better, regardless.

[flynismo]

[quote name='rlh445' date='17 October 2009 - 01:17 PM' timestamp='1255799855' post='258644']
I don't think it's our pass rush at all. Yes, I watch the games. What I am seeing is that our front four dig in, and although they don't get significant pressure every play, they do it often enough so as to force a throw. What I am also seeing is our CBs looking around at each other like chickens, sans heads. Fox and Carr seem to go onto the field wearing ballerina shoes, slipping all over the place, Fabs is constantly looking to Reed and Landry for over the top help when he's stuck on an island, and Landry just doesn't seem like he's gotten back in the groove yet. I hope things get better, regardless.
[/quote]


"chickens, sans heads..." lol

I agree, I think our pass rush has been acceptable. Good enough to get the job done. Like I said elsewhere, the difference is what happens after the ball leaves the QB's hand in those situations. We no longer have CMac or Rolle who can handle one-on-one assignments against the best consistently enough. So obviously we're going to give up more plays when we rush.
If one of our LB not named Lewis learns how to drop back, or if our nickels and dimes decide to start earning their checks, problem solved, for the most part. Our third and fourth CB's are getting eaten alive, and on top of that Fox gives up at least one big play every week, so the starting CB's need a little help.

Which is why I dont get why so many people are dogging Mattison. He doesnt have the firepower to work with that Ryan did, but he's expected to still keep our defense in the top 3 class.

I dont agree with certain Matty decisions, but at the end of the day, it's the players who are accountable to execute their assignments.

[chad1205]

U know what we all have good point on this solution but we have remember that is only week six fox and mattison are new to their postion in and on our team I watch in anger last week like you all but don't panic stay clam and support our team and hope that Ozzie will make moves that will help us on the future

[Moderator 3]

I posted this in another thread, but people are responding to the OP as if they never even saw it. Let me try again here where, perhaps, cooler heads prevail.

[quote]I don't understand why people keep thinking we aren't getting pressure on the QB like we did last year and that our pass coverage has turned horrible.

[url="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/notebook?page=sundaycountdown09"]According to this article on ESPN.com[/url] :

[b]Ravens defense facing questions:[/b] After losing two straight to soil their 3-0 start, the Ravens are a swirl of question marks going into Minneapolis to play the undefeated Vikings. The biggest concern in Baltimore is: What's wrong with the Ravens' celebrated pass defense, particularly corners Domonique Foxworth and Chris Carr, who earn a combined $20.5 million?

The answer is pretty simple: nothing, really. Yes, the Ravens have made Philip Rivers, Tom Brady and Carson Palmer look good. Well, this just in: Those guys are good.

Because of the performances by those Pro Bowl quarterbacks, the Ravens are seventh-worst in the NFL in pass defense. They are giving up eight yards per pass attempt -- fourth-worst in the league. With Rex Ryan gone to New York, the theory goes, the Ravens' defense is just not as good as it was last year.

Not true. Last year, after five games, the Ravens' defense had 11 sacks. This year, after five games --11 sacks. By this time last year, the Ravens had given up seven touchdown passes. This year, only six. Last year, the Ravens started 2-3. This year, they are 3-2. [/quote]

[YYZ66]

Here's an interesting thought; if Flacco doesn't under throw a wide open Mason in the end zone, we beat the Pats. If Flacco doesn't overthrow a wide open Clayton, we beat the Bengals. If we're 5 - 0, would we be having this discussion? Could the CB's be playing better? Yes. Could the pass rush be better? Yes. There's certainly more than one area on this team that needs work, I don't believe we can point at one aspect of the team and say [i]that's the problem[/i].

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='YYZ66' date='17 October 2009 - 04:19 PM' timestamp='1255810773' post='258694']
Here's an interesting thought; if Flacco doesn't under throw a wide open Mason in the end zone, we beat the Pats. If Flacco doesn't overthrow a wide open Clayton, we beat the Bengals. If we're 5 - 0, would we be having this discussion? Could the CB's be playing better? Yes. Could the pass rush be better? Yes. There's certainly more than one area on this team that needs work, I don't believe we can point at one aspect of the team and say [i]that's the problem[/i].
[/quote]

I think people would still be discussing the performance of the pass rush and secondary even if the team was 5-0. Although it isn't realistic, as fans, we all want to see our team play well in every facet of the game. The special teams units look t beo coming around slowly, save for one game, the offense has looked better than ever but the defense has been lacking all year long. There are a lot of reasons why the D has underperformed and there are definitely some things Mattison can do to change that.

[flynismo]

[quote name='Moderator 3' date='17 October 2009 - 02:36 PM' timestamp='1255804584' post='258671']
I posted this in another thread, but people are responding to the OP as if they never even saw it. Let me try again here where, perhaps, cooler heads prevail.
[/quote]


I'm not on the "sky is falling" boat either; I would hope that most people realze that we just faced two of the game's best QB's and a very, very good one last week.
But that's what my problem is. I have no doubt that we'll be in the playoffs, but that's when we'll be facing some of these guys again. I know it's cliche and all, but to be the best you have to beat the best.
This needs to correct itself by the time January comes around.

[BloodRaven]

The lack of football intelligence in this thread is disturbing. Some of you don't even know how our D works and what our personnel are capable of.

[T-Sizzle55]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' date='16 October 2009 - 01:53 PM' timestamp='1255715622' post='258205']
I know it's not a huge difference Wbb actually weighed in at 179lbs. at the Combine. He hasn't completely filled out his frame yet but he's feisty and plays bigger than he is. Foxworth, Washington and Carr don't seem to like contact but he does. I agree about Walker and that's probably why he won't see the field much.

I know it's a practice but he's a video on Webb. The guy has no problem with mixing it up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2Q6JJX8uQ8

Get him on the field.
[/quote]

I've seen that video and he is physical, no doubt, but that was against college guys and not NFL vets. The guy he knocks over is the running back from Oregon who is 5'8 190 lbs. I'm talking defending big NFL slot receivers, running backs, and bringing down big 6'4 NFL QBs when blitzing.

But right now I'd take Webb over Carr hands down!

[nextgen_RavensFan]

after todays game Marcus you will eat those words my friend. The only way we do not get burnt by our corners is if Favre decides not to throw. Other then that they will screw us yet again.

[smashmouth]

Lets pray Samuri Rolle comes back very soon. Our secondary needs help in a bad way, this is sad.