The Cornerbacks Are Not The Problem.

[hammer]

Somehow, I think that this bears repeating:

[b]In looking at this secondary, I see only one player who seems to have any sense of Football IQ, or has the right set of cleats on (Ed Reed). These other guys have no sense of timing, angle recognition, they also have poor foot security and balance. Their sightlines and periphial vision NEVER encompasses the position of the ball in relation to their position on the field. This is a lack of talent and technigue. It has nothing to do with pass rush. And that's just when they are in man to man coverage.

When they are in zone coverage, they are equally inept. They guard space in front of them and let opposing recievers run behind them, even when there is no other recievers in the pass route. I have actually seen them in the NE game allow two receivers get behind four defenders, when they were the ONLY two recievers in the pass route. No, it's not rediculous to blame the secondary play. If anything, it's rediculous the way the secondary IS PLAYING! [/b]

[tweety]

Problem: We can't rush the pass and the defend it at the same time. When we send 6 the other 5 can't strap up. If we only send 4 the pass rush can't limit the QBs time.

So we are not efficiently getting to the QB or covering the pass. We don't have a Chris Mcalister who can cover on an island anymore. We are no longer an efficient defense.

[Ed_Reed_Pick_Six]

Harbaugh was saying he thinks our coverage has generally been pretty good, barring the big plays. Thoughts?

[flynismo]

[quote name='tweety' date='13 October 2009 - 09:14 PM' timestamp='1255482854' post='256585']
Problem: We can't rush the pass and the defend it at the same time. When we send 6 the other 5 can't strap up. If we only send 4 the pass rush can't limit the QBs time.

So we are not efficiently getting to the QB or covering the pass. We don't have a Chris Mcalister who can cover on an island anymore. We are no longer an efficient defense.
[/quote]


Ya know, thats funny, because I'm pretty sure that you told me "its ridiculous that not having a true #1 (like McAlister) is the difference in our defense this year."
Change of heart, eh?

[Ed_Reed_Pick_Six]

Bring me Nnamdi Asomugha immediately.

[Ravens_Fan13]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' date='13 October 2009 - 12:17 PM' timestamp='1255450679' post='256095']
Rex and Bart were here last year but I clearly remember Peyton, Kerry Collins and Roethlisberger all having time to throw when the Ravens played them.
[/quote]

Yes but do you remember we was best in the league last year at third and outs and cant get off the field this year.

[Ed_Reed_Pick_Six]

Everyone needs to step up, offense, defence and special teams.

[Marcus]

[quote name='flynismo' date='13 October 2009 - 11:29 AM' timestamp='1255447752' post='256052']
No actually he's right. I think you must not watch too many of our games, because if you did you would know that we get a lot of pressure.
So....you managed to get it wrong on two counts in one uninformed statement.
[/quote]

We put alot of pressure on the QB? LOL Thats pretty funny. And who cares about rep I can leave negative rep all day it doesn't mean anything.

[Ed_Reed_Pick_Six]

[quote name='Marcus' date='14 October 2009 - 09:13 PM' timestamp='1255511589' post='256814']
We put alot of pressure on the QB? LOL Thats pretty funny. And who cares about rep I can leave negative rep all day it doesn't mean anything.
[/quote]
I loved those overload blitzes Rex used to send.

[McBoller]

[quote name='tweety' date='13 October 2009 - 09:14 PM' timestamp='1255482854' post='256585']
Problem: We can't rush the pass and the defend it at the same time. When we send 6 the other 5 can't strap up. If we only send 4 the pass rush can't limit the QBs time.

So we are not efficiently getting to the QB or covering the pass. We don't have a Chris Mcalister who can cover on an island anymore. We are no longer an efficient defense.
[/quote]
yeah, I agree, but even moreso, the problem is that when we send 6 and leave the DBs isolated, those 6 are STILL not getting there. We made cincys O-line look like a bunch of 10-time probowlers.

[meckman71]

The whole defense is in disarray and a lack of discipline. I do believe we have switched back to the standard 4-3 as we are flush with good to great interior linemen. This posses a more predictable front for offensive pass blocking. This causes our LB to play more disciplined and less free, and lets face it Ray's a free spirit. This also takes away 1 LB to roam and zone cover the center of the field. Haven't our DB's been beaten a lot across the middle with simple slants. J.J is a beast at LB, run coverage and pass rush just not so much in coverage. These things mean our DB's have more responsibility and lets face it they have done pretty good just not good enough.I see a lack of discipline in the defense this year. I point at the penaltys late in games to prove my last point.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Ravens_Fan13' date='14 October 2009 - 01:08 AM' timestamp='1255496889' post='256768']
Yes but do you remember we was best in the league last year at third and outs and cant get off the field this year.
[/quote]

The defense gets off the field this year but look at who they've surrendered long drives to. The Chargers, Pats and the Bengals. Against SD and Cincy, the defense stiffened in the red-zone and played well. NE was the only team that was able to score in the red-zone. Both of those drives were extended by questionable roughing the passer calls.

The pass rush definitely has to improve and so does the man-to-man coverage but let's not throw our hands in the air and say this defense is terrible.

[Pitts200]

The way the Ravens and Steelers defenses are looking, Im wondering if we are all in for a surprise this year when the two teams play and just maybe we will see a shootout vs a defensive struggle.... nahhhh, that'd never happen,,,could it???

[ravensfan160]

[quote name='Ed_Reed_Pick_Six' date='13 October 2009 - 11:40 PM' timestamp='1255491631' post='256726']
Bring me Nnamdi Asomugha immediately.
[/quote]
Well I heard on one of the national sports talk radio shows that Al Davis told his personel department to start making calls around the league and asking, "So who do you want". Its a firesale down there. Unfortunately, he did say that some of the young core guys were off limits so I'm sure Asomugha would be one of them. But this is the Raiders so anything is possible. However, with what they are paying Asomugha I don't see how we could afford him money wise not to mention what to trade to get him.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='ravensfan160' date='14 October 2009 - 08:41 AM' timestamp='1255531275' post='256911']
Well I heard on one of the national sports talk radio shows that Al Davis told his personel department to start making calls around the league and asking, "So who do you want". Its a firesale down there. Unfortunately, he did say that some of the young core guys were off limits so I'm sure Asomugha would be one of them. But this is the Raiders so anything is possible. However, with what they are paying Asomugha I don't see how we could afford him money wise not to mention what to trade to get him.
[/quote]
Asomugha is 28 not exactly a young core guy. Hes without a doubt 1 or 2 corner in the entire league and why he even signed that contract is beyond me, like what did he think would happen in 1 year with the Raiders.

[Mick0311]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' date='13 October 2009 - 09:10 AM' timestamp='1255446638' post='256035']
Bulldog, on the radio, claimed he saw Caldwell grabbing Carr's facemask. When I saw the replay, I couldn't see a grab but there was a lot of contact. Caldwell didn't just burn Carr.

Ray was in the area but Caldwell wasn't his responsibility and Landry was too far back in coverage to make a play on the ball or the man.

Here are the highlights that prove my point:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d8135ac41/NFL-GameDay-Bengals-vs-Ravens-highlights

Watch 3:51-3:53...
[/quote]

Just watched it. I couldn't see a facemask, plenty of contact THAT CARR INITIATED, followed by burnt toast. I'm sorry, but if you are gonna man up on the line with a receiver, and said receiver shoves you off of him and gets open, that's your fault.

[Mick0311]

[quote name='BeastModeOn' date='13 October 2009 - 09:40 AM' timestamp='1255448419' post='256064']
i see pressure every now and then. but when the game is on the line, wherres the pressure at. i see pressure 1st and 2nd down every now and then, but 3rd down we need to bring the heat. and get in the qbs face..
[/quote]


Kind of like on that Moss TD, where we brought the "heat" and our CB tripped over his own feet. I know it's Moss, but the dude literally walked into the endzone.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Mick0311' date='14 October 2009 - 04:45 PM' timestamp='1255553126' post='257177']
Just watched it. I couldn't see a facemask, plenty of contact THAT CARR INITIATED, followed by burnt toast. I'm sorry, but if you are gonna man up on the line with a receiver, and said receiver shoves you off of him and gets open, that's your fault.
[/quote]

You and I must be watching different videos. Caldwell clearly came off the line and initiated the contact. Carr never stepped into him. You can then clearly see Carr's head being drawn in a direction and Caldwell's arm trailing for a second. Unless Carr is a complete idiot, why would he start moving in one direction when Caldwell was running the other way?

[T-Sizzle55]

[quote name='Marcus' date='13 October 2009 - 10:14 AM' timestamp='1255443240' post='255985']
This might have been discussed already but the reason why our CB's look bad its simply because our pass rush is terrible. We need to trade for a pass rushing DE or draft one in the first round next year. If anything put Antwan Barnes a DE on passing downs and see what he can do.
[/quote]

I understand that more pressure would help our secondary, but they are pressuring the quarterback. Suggs might not have 8 sacks by now, but he is getting to the quarterback and hurrying their throws. We are tied for 12th place with 11 sacks which is not bad. Furthermore, we are tied for 3rd place with 7 INTs, which most have come from hurried throws by the QB. I would give most of the credit for the INTs to our front 7 (besides Reed's pick 6) because they have not been in coverage.

The most undeniable statistic is that we are in 2nd place in giving up the most passes that are 20 yards doing so 19 times! (Bengals have 1st place giving up 20). We are also tied for 4th place (with the Bengals) for giving up the most passing plays that are 40 yards or more, doing so 4 times.

Our front 7 have to do a better job of getting to the QB, but do they have to be #1 in sacks just to keep our 2ndary from getting torn apart? It's a two way street of pressure and coverage and we are falling short in coverage. It's apparent that they are having trouble on man-to-man coverages, which is we used to rely on in the pass. QBs are throwing to guys who look covered, yet they still beat our CBs. They are not physical and are being pushed around. We hired small speedy CBs so we WOULD NOT be giving up big plays down field and we TOP the league in giving up BIG PLAYS!!

I say bench Foxworth for a little bit and put in Frank Walker (who is so physical he usually gets penalized for it, unfortunately). Let Domonique know he's in the dog house and force him to step up like the Raven we know he can be. I'm sorry to say this, but we need C-Mac and Rolle back. I was worried about having 2 new corners with no veteran CB leadership, but I never thought that they would prove to be this bad. I thought I would be surprised with their play but not this way.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='T-Sizzle55' date='14 October 2009 - 05:01 PM' timestamp='1255554109' post='257191']
I say bench Foxworth for a little bit and put in Frank Walker (who is so physical he usually gets penalized for it, unfortunately). Let Domonique know he's in the dog house and force him to step up like the Raven we know he can be. I'm sorry to say this, but we need C-Mac and Rolle back. I was worried about having 2 new corners with no veteran CB leadership, but I never thought that they would prove to be this bad. I thought I would be surprised with their play but not this way.
[/quote]

Why would you bench Foxworth for guy who embarrassed himself in the pre-season when the team is going into a huge game? There are many ways to motivate a player besides benching him. Foxworth himself understands he needs to perform better. Give him time.

I think the team needs Rolle back but with the way McAlister played last year, this team doesn't need him.

[flynismo]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' date='14 October 2009 - 05:00 PM' timestamp='1255554039' post='257187']
You and I must be watching different videos. Caldwell clearly came off the line and initiated the contact. Carr never stepped into him. You can then clearly see Carr's head being drawn in a direction and Caldwell's arm trailing for a second. Unless Carr is a complete idiot, why would he start moving in one direction when Caldwell was running the other way?
[/quote]

I havent rewatched that play, so I have no opinion on it.
But would you really be surprised if Carr is a complete idiot?

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='flynismo' date='14 October 2009 - 05:17 PM' timestamp='1255555028' post='257200']
But would you really be surprised if Carr is a complete idiot?
[/quote]

LOL! Not really. Try and watch the play though. It's pretty clear what Caldwell did.

[T-Sizzle55]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' date='13 October 2009 - 10:51 AM' timestamp='1255445476' post='256016']
He grabbed onto Chris Carr's facemask and pulled him down.
[/quote]

If you watch the play from a different angle you can see Cinci's RT grabbing Jarrett Johnson from hebind and getting practically carried 10 yards down field. I don't know how the refs could have missed that. (Pssh, yeah i do! They all took the Bengals.)

[ONCDMV]

[quote name='Marcus' date='13 October 2009 - 10:29 AM' timestamp='1255444165' post='255995']
No, you're wrong and obviously don't know anything about football.
[/quote]
I think the overall scheme of the defense is the problem, let's not forget RAVENS our offense was putting up 31 a game going into the pats game, but only managed 21 and 14 against the bengals. Yeah the refs played a part in both games but who wants to play sore loser (THAT'S WHY RAY WASN'T FINED). I think as a TEAM we need to regroup and also remember it's week 6.

[ravensfan2430]

[quote name='Ed_Reed_Pick_Six' date='14 October 2009 - 05:16 AM' timestamp='1255511774' post='256816']
I loved those overload blitzes Rex used to send.
[/quote]
I did too and if you noticed when we did it againt Cinci, Reed got the pick 6.

One blitz we do all the time is when Carr comes from the nickel and essesntially everyone blitzs on the ends. The same things happens everytime, the Qb steps up and completes a pass or takes off for 5 yards. When Cris Carr is blitzing we are playing 10 on 11. It's hard to watch. Anyone else notice that?

[Alexir]

[size="4"][sup]The pass rush needs to get better but it is the corner backs. Foxworth doesnt look like he knows whats going on out there at all. Look at the tape, he fell on his face a lot.[/sup] [/size]

[Ed_Reed20]

People don't realize, Washington has actually played well this year.

[reediddy]

[quote name='flynismo' date='13 October 2009 - 08:33 AM' timestamp='1255448024' post='256054']
Fox and Fabian arent our only CB's. Fox has been inconsistent and does give up at least one big play every week, and Carr and Walker...well, we know all about those two.
[/quote]

Frank Walker is easily our most physical cornerback...switch him with Carr, please!!! stop hatin on frank!!!

[Alexir]

Like others have said, Carr has no business being on this team. We should have let him go when we drafted Webb.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='reediddy' date='14 October 2009 - 06:12 PM' timestamp='1255558320' post='257247']
Frank Walker is easily our most physical cornerback...switch him with Carr, please!!! stop hatin on frank!!!
[/quote]

The coaches better make the change this week or Harvin will have a field day. Even if Harvin doesn't play, Greg Lewis could destroy Carr.

[quote name='Alexir' date='14 October 2009 - 06:15 PM' timestamp='1255558529' post='257249']
Like others have said, Carr has no business being on this team. We should have let him go when we drafted Webb.
[/quote]


They brought in Carr to return kicks and punts. When Rolle went down, I guess they expected Walker step in but he looked terrible in pre-season. Still, Carr has been absolute garbage and Walker has shown he can make plays. He made a great play against SD and in my opinion, he did nothing illegal on that final Cincy possession. He was playing the ball. They need to play him.

I want to see Webb personally but maybe the coaches aren't ready to throw him in. I don't know why...