The Cornerbacks Are Not The Problem.

[Marcus]

This might have been discussed already but the reason why our CB's look bad its simply because our pass rush is terrible. We need to trade for a pass rushing DE or draft one in the first round next year. If anything put Antwan Barnes a DE on passing downs and see what he can do.

[Ravnet]

No, you're wrong. Our cornerbacks are the problem.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Ravnet' date='13 October 2009 - 10:21 AM' timestamp='1255443669' post='255990']
No, you're wrong. Our cornerbacks are the problem.
[/quote]

They aren't the whole problem. There have times when the corners simply haven't covered well. As much as we all want to see the pocket collapsing around QBs every time he drops back, that just doesn't happen. There are times when corners simply have to stick to their man and make a play.

However, on third and long when it's obvious the opposing team is going to pass, you want to see at least one player beat his man and get pressure on the QB. That hasn't happened much this year. Trevor Pryce seems either be held on every play and even when he isn't, he doesn't do much. I see Suggs trying very hard sometimes but he always seems to be a second too late or too wide to get to the QB. The DTs rarely get any pressure.

Like the Marcus suggested, Mattison needs to send Barnes on blitzes or maybe rotate him in for Pryce. He also needs to move Suggs around and blitz more with J.J. and McClain. Those are the best pass rushers on the team.

[Marcus]

[quote name='Ravnet' date='13 October 2009 - 10:21 AM' timestamp='1255443669' post='255990']
No, you're wrong. Our cornerbacks are the problem.
[/quote]

No, you're wrong and obviously don't know anything about football.

[Florida Ravens Fan]

Our [b][u]main [/u][/b]issue is at cornerback, its not our only issue, but it's our main!!

[Bltravens]

[quote name='Marcus' date='13 October 2009 - 08:29 AM' timestamp='1255444165' post='255995']
No, you're wrong and obviously don't know anything about football.
[/quote]
Kind of a low blow there. The problem with the defense is two fold, we get fine edge pressure, Ngata and Gregg dont collapse the pocket for jack so the QB just steps up into the pocket and is fine. Secondly our DBs coverage is flat out aweful at times, theres no reason for us to be 23 in pass defense there are times when DBs coverage has gone way too long yes but there are also times when the QB is throwing the ball in 2 seconds because "Fabworth" was beat off the line...routinely.

[Gtown Purple]

I think bnoth have issues. we aren't getting as much pass rush and are blitzes aren't getting there often. The secondary seems to be blowing alot of coverage as well, not to mention the penalties. Why was andre caldwell open on a simple slant pattern from the slot?

[BeastModeOn]

[quote name='Ravnet' date='13 October 2009 - 09:21 AM' timestamp='1255443669' post='255990']
No, you're wrong. Our cornerbacks are the problem.
[/quote]
ravenet you must be kidding because u probley havent read the corners topics yet. but u need to watch the game closely. in fact go to some games and watch our secondary closely.. what team out there who has good corners with no pass rush and still beable to cover well??? especially when there is an elite quarterback throwing to 3 to 4 good recievers on the team. man i cant believe u just blamed our starter corners on this lol. last night gives great examples, who has mediocore corners but has an amazing pass rush?? tell me that, cuz i can name a few and there corners look like all stars... sorry but. like i said before in other topics, alot of passes are over the middle, which is going for almost 10 yrds+... where the safety help? wheres the linebacker help? damn... tell me where u see fabian getting beat this whole year??? cuz i havent yet.. and im talking vertically which they own at.. yea our corners might give up a route for 3-4 yards, but nothing deep. see one play last week that was deep but def a push off from henry, even deion and warren sapp said nice push off henry!!! wheres the flag for that, but no lets call it on foxworth for touching his shirt.. yea ok?? anyway when i went to NE game, do u know how many times brady was looking for moss deep 1v1 coverage with domonique, and foxworth was right with him. sorry but our corners are good, u need a pass rush more than anything else in the nfl today to stop an ELITE QUARTERBACK, ESPECIALLY WHEN U HAVE 3-4 GOOD QUALITY RECIEVERS..

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Gtown Purple' date='13 October 2009 - 10:49 AM' timestamp='1255445370' post='256013']
Why was andre caldwell open on a simple slant pattern from the slot?
[/quote]

He grabbed onto Chris Carr's facemask and pulled him down.

[BeastModeOn]

[quote name='Gtown Purple' date='13 October 2009 - 09:49 AM' timestamp='1255445370' post='256013']
I think bnoth have issues. we aren't getting as much pass rush and are blitzes aren't getting there often. The secondary seems to be blowing alot of coverage as well, not to mention the penalties. Why was andre caldwell open on a simple slant pattern from the slot?
[/quote]

because chris carr was in the playing the slot against caldwell... holy hell im starting to think cory ivy is better than carr,, where is lardarius he needs to be our slot corner.. especially where was the safety help cuz when i was right there at the game, u see 2 safetys right next to the pass lol... nice!!!

[BeastModeOn]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' date='13 October 2009 - 09:51 AM' timestamp='1255445476' post='256016']
He grabbed onto Chris Carr's facemask and pulled him down.
[/quote]


i didnt see no facemask grab, i saw caldwell straight up burn carr, and then linebackers looking confused with safetys in the middle and noone tries to break it up!!!

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='BeastModeOn' date='13 October 2009 - 10:55 AM' timestamp='1255445720' post='256021']
i didnt see no facemask grab, i saw caldwell straight up burn carr, and then linebackers looking confused with safetys in the middle and noone tries to break it up!!!
[/quote]

Bulldog, on the radio, claimed he saw Caldwell grabbing Carr's facemask. When I saw the replay, I couldn't see a grab but there was a lot of contact. Caldwell didn't just burn Carr.

Ray was in the area but Caldwell wasn't his responsibility and Landry was too far back in coverage to make a play on the ball or the man.

Here are the highlights that prove my point:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d8135ac41/NFL-GameDay-Bengals-vs-Ravens-highlights

Watch 3:51-3:53...

[flynismo]

[quote name='Marcus' date='13 October 2009 - 10:29 AM' timestamp='1255444165' post='255995']
No, you're wrong and obviously don't know anything about football.
[/quote]

No actually he's right. I think you must not watch too many of our games, because if you did you would know that we get a lot of pressure.
So....you managed to get it wrong on two counts in one uninformed statement.

[flynismo]

[quote name='BeastModeOn' date='13 October 2009 - 10:50 AM' timestamp='1255445450' post='256015']
ravenet you must be kidding because u probley havent read the corners topics yet. but u need to watch the game closely. in fact go to some games and watch our secondary closely.. what team out there who has good corners with no pass rush and still beable to cover well??? especially when there is an elite quarterback throwing to 3 to 4 good recievers on the team. man i cant believe u just blamed our starter corners on this lol. last night gives great examples, who has mediocore corners but has an amazing pass rush?? tell me that, cuz i can name a few and there corners look like all stars... sorry but. like i said before in other topics, alot of passes are over the middle, which is going for almost 10 yrds+... where the safety help? wheres the linebacker help? damn... tell me where u see fabian getting beat this whole year??? cuz i havent yet.. and im talking vertically which they own at.. yea our corners might give up a route for 3-4 yards, but nothing deep. see one play last week that was deep but def a push off from henry, even deion and warren sapp said nice push off henry!!! wheres the flag for that, but no lets call it on foxworth for touching his shirt.. yea ok?? anyway when i went to NE game, do u know how many times brady was looking for moss deep 1v1 coverage with domonique, and foxworth was right with him. sorry but our corners are good, u need a pass rush more than anything else in the nfl today to stop an ELITE QUARTERBACK, ESPECIALLY WHEN U HAVE 3-4 GOOD QUALITY RECIEVERS..
[/quote]


Fox and Fabian arent our only CB's. Fox has been inconsistent and does give up at least one big play every week, and Carr and Walker...well, we know all about those two.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='flynismo' date='13 October 2009 - 11:29 AM' timestamp='1255447752' post='256052']
No actually he's right. I think you must not watch too many of our games, because if you did you would know that we get [b]a lot of pressure[/b].
[/quote]

Have YOU been watching the games?

[BeastModeOn]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' date='13 October 2009 - 10:38 AM' timestamp='1255448286' post='256060']
Have YOU been watching the games?
[/quote]


i see pressure every now and then. but when the game is on the line, wherres the pressure at. i see pressure 1st and 2nd down every now and then, but 3rd down we need to bring the heat. and get in the qbs face..

[bce086]

[quote name='flynismo' date='13 October 2009 - 11:33 AM' timestamp='1255448024' post='256054']
Fox and Fabian arent our only CB's. Fox has been inconsistent and does give up at least one big play every week, and Carr and Walker...well, we know all about those two.
[/quote]

Walker > Carr anyday. He's the most physical corner on our roster.

[Dark]

[quote name='flynismo' date='13 October 2009 - 11:29 AM' timestamp='1255447752' post='256052']
No actually he's right. I think you must not watch too many of our games, because if you did you would know that we get a lot of pressure.
So....you managed to get it wrong on two counts in one uninformed statement.
[/quote]

Actually he is right we are not getting consistent pressure on the QB. We are fourth rank worst in sacks in the AFC. If we can't get pressure on the QB the CB are going to be left stranded by themselves because we are blitzing the safeties. Also we are missing some key tackles in the games with LB core and additionally the penalties are killing us defensively we cannot make these mistakes constantly. Especially if you know Refs are going to protect their money maker Star QB's in Manning and Brady. We have to play more intelligently and get more pressure on the QB and the defense would be better.

[Tighthead420]

You can't have good coverage without good pressure. There that solves the petty argument!


It may be cliche, and repeated a thousand times this week, but no secondary in the league can cover for 6 seconds all the time. Palmer had all day at times, that is going to make any secondary look bad.

Conversely, if Fab Dom are getting beat right from the get-go, then the pressure looks like it isn't applied at all b/c the ball is out after 2 seconds.

[tweety]

Every one is on a different page. We have 1 Great corner (2 when Rolle gets back) 1 Good corner (foxworth). 1 Average corner (Walker) and 1 weak corner (Carr). To me corner isnt a big problem.

In the upcoming games I would like to see improvement from Landry and the defensive line.

Ngata, Gregg, and Bannan package are for the run.

Barnes is good against the pass but he can't tackle and gave 7 to benson sunday.

Suggs, Lewis, and Johnson are the only all purpose players. Our front 3 or 4 are pure Rush stoppers. We need a 4th all purpose line backer and a DE who can get pressure and bulk up against the run.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='tweety' date='13 October 2009 - 12:01 PM' timestamp='1255449694' post='256082']
Suggs, Lewis, and Johnson are the only all purpose players. Our front 3 or 4 are pure Rush stoppers.[b] We need a 4th all purpose line backer and a DE who can get pressure and bulk up against the run.[/b]
[/quote]

That player should be Kruger but I don't think the coaches think he's ready.

As for the DTs, D.Edwards got good pressure a few times on Sunday. Hopefully they continue to rotate him with Gregg.

[Ravens_Fan13]

Its simple if you allow a NFL quaterback to step up in the pocket and throw of course its gonna be pitch and catch its the front right now guys i hate to say it but im not blaming the cb's its actually not fair for them yea i have seen them play gross but who hasent losing rex and scott has made all the diff. i didnt beleive it was gonna make a diff. but boy has it ever.

[PuRock]

[quote name='tweety' date='13 October 2009 - 12:01 PM' timestamp='1255449694' post='256082']
Every one is on a different page. We have 1 Great corner (2 when Rolle gets back) 1 Good corner (foxworth). 1 Average corner (Walker) and 1 weak corner (Carr). To me corner isnt a big problem.
[/quote]

I'm assuming our great CB is Fabian. I probably wouldn't go so far as calling him great. He's got great speed. But an average CB.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Ravens_Fan13' date='13 October 2009 - 12:14 PM' timestamp='1255450441' post='256092']
Its simple if you allow a NFL quaterback to step up in the pocket and throw of course its gonna be pitch and catch its the front right now guys i hate to say it but im not blaming the cb's its actually not fair for them yea i have seen them play gross but who hasent [b]losing rex and scott has made all the diff. i didnt beleive it was gonna make a diff. but boy has it ever.[/b]
[/quote]

Rex and Bart were here last year but I clearly remember Peyton, Kerry Collins and Roethlisberger all having time to throw when the Ravens played them.

[flynismo]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' date='13 October 2009 - 11:38 AM' timestamp='1255448286' post='256060']
Have YOU been watching the games?
[/quote]

I've been watching enough to know that we are tied for 8th in the NFL in sacks. Not bad for a team that supposedly doesn't get enough pressure.
I also watch enough to see that we constantly have men in the backfield, forcing a lot of throwaways, dump offs and quick passes.
I really wonder about you people sometimes.

[flynismo]

[quote name='PuRock' date='13 October 2009 - 12:14 PM' timestamp='1255450467' post='256094']
I'm assuming our great CB is Fabian. I probably wouldn't go so far as calling him great. He's got great speed. But an average CB.
[/quote]


All in all, Fabe has played pretty well. Far from great, I agree, but he certainly hasn't been a liability.

[flynismo]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' date='13 October 2009 - 12:13 PM' timestamp='1255450396' post='256091']
That player should be Kruger but I don't think the coaches think he's ready.

As for the DTs, D.Edwards got good pressure a few times on Sunday. Hopefully they continue to rotate him with Gregg.
[/quote]

I agree that guy should be Kruger. He is very versatile, and can play the run, pass and give us a good pass rush.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='flynismo' date='13 October 2009 - 12:25 PM' timestamp='1255451151' post='256100']
I've been watching enough to know that we are tied for 8th in the NFL in sacks. Not bad for a team that supposedly doesn't get enough pressure.
I also watch enough to see that we constantly have men in the backfield, forcing a lot of throwaways, dump offs and quick passes.
I really wonder about you people sometimes.
[/quote]

The Ravens are 12th in the NFL in sacks sir.

Even so, they still haven't brought consistent pressure, especially in crunch-time. Phillip Rivers had time to throw despite playing behind a banged up line. Brady has time to throw and so did Palmer when it counted on Sunday.

I don't expect the pocket to implode every time the QB drops back but there have been too many times when I've seen the front four simply unable to beat their man.

[Rocky Mountain Raven]

[quote name='flynismo' date='13 October 2009 - 10:25 AM' timestamp='1255451151' post='256100']
I've been watching enough to know that we are tied for 8th in the NFL in sacks. Not bad for a team that supposedly doesn't get enough pressure.
I also watch enough to see that we constantly have men in the backfield, forcing a lot of throwaways, dump offs and quick passes.
I really wonder about you people sometimes.
[/quote]
Actually we're tied for 12th in sacks.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/defense/sort/sacks

The number of sacks we produce is only part of the issue. I dont believe its very indicative of our pass rush. The previous 5 games in my opinion have produced very little pass rush. As others have stated you cant give a QB 6+ seconds to throw the ball, they'll tear your secondary apart.

But, I too believe our corners play too soft and get beat when they shouldn't have as well. Unfortunately we have 2 major issues on defense now.

[flynismo]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' date='13 October 2009 - 12:33 PM' timestamp='1255451602' post='256107']
The Ravens are 12th in the NFL in sacks sir.

Even so, they still haven't brought consistent pressure, especially in crunch-time. Phillip Rivers had time to throw despite playing behind a banged up line. Brady has time to throw and so did Palmer when it counted on Sunday.

I don't expect the pocket to implode every time the QB drops back but there have been too many times when I've seen the front four simply unable to beat their man.
[/quote]


Well depends on how you interpret the stats. We have 11 sacks. There are several teams ahead of us tied with 12 and 14. There are only 7 other sack totals higher than our 11.
And as I was alluding, sacks are not the be-all, end-all when it comes to pressure n the QB. We get enough pressure to be effective. Maybe its not as dazzling as our 2006 defense's was, but it's good enough to not be a problem.