Constructive Criticism

[Ed_Reed_Pick_Six]

Ok, for those of you decent enough to not have dismissed our hopes already, what do we need to do starting next week? What are our biggest weaknesses?

In my opinion, [i]Chris Carr[/i] has not been up to standard. [i]Discipline[/i] is far from 'Raven standard' and our [i]pass defense[/i] is a worry.

I won't go to in depth; instead opening the floor for those who still have faith and want to seriously discuss how our team can improve - rather than make brash statements.

[Osiris]

[quote name='Ed_Reed_Pick_Six' date='12 October 2009 - 11:17 AM' timestamp='1255335429' post='255109']
Ok, for those of you decent enough to not have dismissed our hopes already, what do we need to do starting next week? What are our biggest weaknesses?

In my opinion, [i]Chris Carr[/i] has not been up to standard. [i]Discipline[/i] is far from 'Raven standard' and our [i]pass defense[/i] is a worry.

I won't go to in depth; instead opening the floor for those who still have faith and want to seriously discuss how our team can improve - rather than make brash statements.
[/quote]
I like this thread. Thank you.

Here's what I see as the Ravens weaknesses:

[list=1]

[*]More [b]consistency [/b]and [b]balance [/b]in our play-calling: I am not claiming to be the expert here, but I think more balance is needed. We have 3 great players back there, Ray, Willis and Leron and Cam is rushing less than 20 times a game. Btw, where was Willis yesterday!?

[*][b]Our defense[/b]: I feel they kind of lost their pride. I love to watch the Jets defense now, you can see them all fired up on the line of scrimmage, moving around, blitzing or faking it. Our defense seems old and lazy. we are mainly pass rushing with 3 or maximum 4 guys. I don't know who to blame here: Mattison? the guys?

[*][b]Secondary[/b]: Fox and Fab are solid players, not elite, but solid. I am afraid this cannot be changed, we have to live with it, it will be there the whole season. Mattison can use more double team, or more coverage.. but as far as the quality of our CBs, this is what we have.

[*]And most importantly, [b]Discipline[/b]: That's the second straight week that penalties cost us the game. These are the NFL rules, if you want to play the game you have to abide by them. No need to whine and cry about the officiating. There's no conspiracy here! All we need is some discipline. Imagine the last Bengals drive without that penalty on Ray. They were on midfield! And this penalty on Landry's sack! I think Harb should do a better job when it comes with field discipline.
[/list]


I think next week against the Viking will be crucial. Hopefully Gaither will be back. If we win, we defeat a great team and get our pride back.

[12th man]

I agree with alot you have here.
Webb instead of Carr
Lj smith TE and Heap need more reps
3 headed monster needs to get more reps
washington needs more reps
Penatilies need to be corrected.
Joe needs to work on clock management and vision

[bce086]

I'd have to say discipline, clock management, and pass rushing are the 3 biggest things we need to focus for the future.

We committed 10 penalties for 76 yards throughout the entire game. These are just free yards and 2nd chances we are giving teams against us. It wasn't just the last 2 at the end of the game that cost us the W (but they were the most memorable, whether you agree or disagree with the calls) There's no excuse for this, and I agree 100% with Pryce and Gregg... Pryce - "I'm not going there with you. I don't do the referee thing," defensive end Trevor Pryce said. "If you dominate, the calls don't matter."
Gregg - "Some tough calls. But you can't leave it in their hands," Baltimore defensive tackle Kelly Gregg said.


We need to control the clock. Last year we were in complete control of the game, and that was due to our run game. We need more running plays and play action plays. Play action will in turn open up the running lanes, and also allow Joe to get more looks down the field when we do decide to throw the ball. It also keeps our defense fresh. McGahee only touched the ball 2 or 3 times yesterday. I'm all for giving it to the hot hand, but how can Willis get hot if he doesn't get to touch the ball? (And I am not taking anything away from Rice -- He was a monster yesterday)

We need to put more consistent pressure on QBs. We are giving them all the time in the world back there. None of our front 3 can collapse the pocket. I don't know if we need to rush more LBers (Johnson and Barnes both got in there on some good blitzes to take down Palmer), or safeties (Landry got him once as well too...) I dont know... but I do know we are giving QBs too much time, and it is making our corners vulnerable. You can only cover a receiver for so long.

[Dudeman]

Agreed agreed agreed!

I was at the game yesterday, and all phases seemed so "lack luster" with the lone bright spots being the touchdowns from Reed and Rice.

I know we may have had some pass protect issues without Gaither. I know the Bengals defense were playing inspired passionate football. But I feel like I am seeing a distinctly different team than the one that started the season 7-0 (including pre-season.)

Whats changed over the past 2 weeks?

Well I think I can offer some small insights that haven't already been mentioned.

Everyone is saying whats happened to our defense? But I don't think that should be the major concern, they can stop the run which is important when it gets cold and the weather is worse. This time of year is fair weather football, and offenses usually are dominant this time of year. I think we should focus on what has changed offensively the past 2 games.

PLAY CALLING- I overheard someone saying in the stands when did Billick come back to Baltimore? I agree with that sentiment completely. It feels like the offensive plays went from spectacular, inventive, and precisely executed to bland bland bland. The run to pass ratio seems out of whack, but yesterday there was no serious threat of a deep ball either. But that being said I think we would have avoided turnovers if we were more run heavy in the red zone. The past two weeks we have thrown interceptions when we could have at least come away with field goals.

EXECUTION- Flacco hasn't been himself the past 2 weeks. I think some of that is the play calling, but more to the point he needs to get back in synch with his receivers. Mason being held without a catch is absolutely inexcusable.

PLAY DESIGN- The first 3 weeks of the season, and last year we had inventive plays that made us unpredictable. Our unbalanced line usually picked up crucial 3rd and short conversions, and trick plays resulted in big gains or touchdowns. When our team needed a score, Ngata would check in as an extra blocker. Furthermore, what happened to all those trick plays the past two games? No Suggs packages, reverses, unbalanced lines, or anything remotely resembling a creative offense. This has got to change if we're going to have a chance to get to the post-season.

The better our offense plays with time of possession, and scoring the better our defensive performance. Do you think Benson would've broken 100 yards if our offense stayed on the field longer? When the offense performs well it puts the defense into favorable positions.

[Flacco-the-Unitas]

Changes need to be made and soon, especially for the next few games coming up! I'm not sure if you noticed a trend that's similar with Bengals and the Ravens but with their last 2 games, no matter how good or bad their opponent is it seems these teams don't get fired up until late 3rd quarter. The Bengals have apparently grabbed this concept and ran with it while our guys make some really stupid maneuvers that force penalties.

DISCIPLINE! The first 3 games the Ravens played, you could see discipline. Even in the Browns game when the Ravens were dominating, they didn't lose control nor poise and just played the game. Then they lost the discipline late in the game with the Pats. Maybe they let those penalties get to them, played extra careless and rough with a mentality that a penalty would come either way, and carried that grudge on into the Bengals game. Now they have tasted what a lackluster discipline does to a game. It COULD have been an ugly win for the Ravens. Instead in the last drive penalties drove the bengals close enough to the red zone. Either result is inexcusable, but the loss even more so.

SECONDARY! How do we improve pass protection when Carr is terrible and Washington isn't tall enough to block anyone without getting a penalty? I'm not really sure myself. I suppose we should make mid field passing a fools' option for our opponents by more all out rushes and just let the safeties take on the 2nd and third receivers. But this is very dangerous.

OFFENSIVE PLAY CALLING! I don't think having a "balanced" offense is the answer. Just saying that makes a team more predictable. Ravens just need to embrace the creativity once again. We need some QB sneaks when we are 4th and 1, maybe another statue of liberty like last year, and less running through the middle (that left running from Benson really got to the Ravens-maybe we can try this).

OFFENSIVE LINE! Flacco takes a lot of criticism for the last game, but how much time did he have to throw and who was actually open. When Heap gets more catches than Mason, Mason isn't getting open. When the majority of Flacco's throws went to his second and third options quickly, it's because that was his last option before the offensive line caved in again. Give Flacco some decent time and targets, and he delivers. We've seen it before and we'll see it again.

DEFENSE! They made a few great plays. But it wasn't enough. They allowed way too many rushing yards and gave Palmer too much time to throw. How does this improve? This was more of a fluke for our defensive line. They'll train and we'll see a much improved defensive line next game. This is on the bottom of my list of improvements because it's the one that I feel is the most easily corrected.

[mistamac]

Glad to hear its not all gloom and doom on the board.

The defense did a good job Sunday. They were on the field quite a bit, allowed 271 passing yards and 142 rushing yards. And let's not forget they did put points on the board. I'll defer to others on the cornerback play...but it seems to me that in order to get good you've got to face good competition and Favre and company will definitely provide that this weekend. What will be more important I think is run defense. Benson rushed for 120 of the total yards and kept the ravens D busy all day. Peterson must be slowed or the Vikings will surely dominate time of possesion just as Cincy did.

Offensive production is the key. The O-line is young and talented and gives Flacco time to throw. Flacco has the arm and the smarts (the interception thrown into double coverage killing a drive must not be repeated, though)He only threw for 186 yards 1TD and 2int The offense needs to produce points and sustain drives without turnovers. I would say Let Joe Throw. Ray Rice is a serious threat rushing and receiving and there is enough juice in this offense to put some major points on the board so let's do it! If the offense can control time of possesion that will give Ray and company the oppurtunity to [b]do that thing they do so well.[/b]

I think the Ravens can and will get better....and they will have that oppurtunity this weekend in Minnesota against Brett Favre and company.

[AlaskanRavensFan]

As much defensive worries as others have, my main concern is the offense. They only scored 7 points yesterday. The other 7 was by Reed on a great pick 6. I know the Bengals D has improved, but we've got to get more production on that side of the ball. Our defense finally plays a pretty good game and the offense decides not to show up until late in the game. We need to be a team that can start fast. That's what we saw the first three weeks. We even were able to move the ball and score in the Pats game. So my biggest point of emphasis would be TOP and getting off to a quick start.

[Ed_Reed_Pick_Six]

Firstly, thanks for all the constructive posts.

Secondly, who thinks we need to make a trade of some form before the deadline? I don't know who we could get [i]if[/i] we were to trade, just opening that up for discussion also.

I wouldn't mind seeing Webb at Nickel, and or kick returns. Carr has failed to impress at either.

[Gtown Purple]

I agree Carr is a failure but I think the biggest hting is penalties. We are getting hit with 7-10 penalties a game and at crucial points no less.

[PuRock]

[quote name='mistamac' date='13 October 2009 - 01:11 AM' timestamp='1255410705' post='255902']
Glad to hear its not all gloom and doom on the board.
[/quote]

It's taking a lot of work to keep things optimistic on here. Most people seem content on giving up.

You make a great point about the defense being on the field a lot. Bengals had the TOP by nearly 10 minutes more. Plus they managed a whopping 25 more plays than us. That's going to beat up the D. Add in a few drive extensions by penalties. And this D was beat and demoralized.

[Flacco-the-Unitas]

Carr has consistenly failed to produce when it's mattered most. He was given a huge chance to show up for the game after the Pats game and he just rolled over. I would like to see this veteran that knows better traded. Granted, he's been around a while and I would like to give him one more chance to get a name back for himself. He has just never been THIS bad before.

I like washington, but the man is so short that pass defense is a big problem for him. Why don't we see how well he can receive and swap him for Clayton? He's definitely got the speed and he's caught the ball before. Clayton's a little bigger and while not as fast would hold up better I think as secondary. Is this kind of placement swapping even possible?

These are my two biggest player swaps. The rest I think can learn from 2 defeats in a row, stay where they are, and come out winning the division for us.

Can we give the ball to Willis a little more? Rice was impressive, but Willis is the TD king of the Ravens right now. Why don't we let Rice and Willis switch off more often. I don't think running just one back is going to stand up to the Vikings. It will be too predictable.

[Ed_Reed20]

Here are the areas I think the team should improve on:

Pass rush: The pass rush simply hasn't been there when the team needs it the most. The DE's don't consistently get pressure around the edge and I don't see Ngata, Gregg, Bannan or Edwards being able to collapse the pocket. If it's a personnel problem then Mattison needs to blitz more.

Coverage: The coverage will look better the better the pass rush is but the corners really have to work on their technique. Both the starting corners have the athleticism but there are times when receivers beat them off the line with ease. If they have to jam receivers more at the line, so be it.

Tackling: I don't think players work on tackling during the season but they really need to work on it. Benson ran hard all game and his o-lineman opened up holes but there were several runs he had that should've ended in the backfield but were extended because of missed tackles. On his TD run, Barnes went too high, Benson was able to shrug him off and get to into the second level.

[WinnipegRaven]

All and all I think we need to get back to, as I've said a few times before, Ravens style football. Running the ball on a high percentage of downs, again as I've said before, will lead to nothing but good things for us. Our defense stays rested and hungry. Defensive penalties will drop since we are not making mistakes while playing tired. Opposing D's will tire out and Rice/McGahee will have a hay day. It'll be hard trying to protect Flacco if he's throwing the ball 40+ times every game and I'd like to have him around for a long time so....
If possible, I'd like to trade out of our current CB situation and get something that will allow me to sleep at night. People can say our CB situation is fine, but our defensive pass ranking keeps dropping each week.

[Steelerkillers]

1.Discipline= poor tackling, penalties, doesnt finish close games

2.Corners= undersized, clumsy, give up on plays

3.Offensive play calling= inconsistent

4.Defensive play calling= Not enuff inside (up the middle)blitz

[Steelerkillers]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' date='13 October 2009 - 11:27 AM' timestamp='1255447625' post='256051']
Here are the areas I think the team should improve on:

Pass rush: The pass rush simply hasn't been there when the team needs it the most. The DE's don't consistently get pressure around the edge and I don't see Ngata, Gregg, Bannan or Edwards being able to collapse the pocket. If it's a personnel problem then Mattison needs to blitz more.

Coverage: The coverage will look better the better the pass rush is but the corners really have to work on their technique. Both the starting corners have the athleticism but there are times when receivers beat them off the line with ease. If they have to jam receivers more at the line, so be it.

Tackling: I don't think players work on tackling during the season but they really need to work on it. Benson ran hard all game and his o-lineman opened up holes but there were several runs he had that should've ended in the backfield but were extended because of missed tackles. On his TD run, Barnes went too high and Benson was able to shrug and get to into the second level.
[/quote]
I had to give you props on this post becuz i dont see many of us beefin about poor tackling. This frustrates me more than anything. It allows additional rushing and passing yrds which results in Big plays...keeps drives goin.its destroys our defensive momentum.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Steelerkillers' date='13 October 2009 - 11:35 AM' timestamp='1255448117' post='256057']
2.Corners= undersized, clumsy, give up on plays
[/quote]

Size means nothing. I brought up several corners in another topic who are the same size or smaller than Fabian and Foxworth but are more physical.

[Steelerkillers]

[quote name='WinnipegRaven' date='13 October 2009 - 11:34 AM' timestamp='1255448091' post='256055']
All and all I think we need to get back to, as I've said a few times before, Ravens style football. Running the ball on a high percentage of downs, again as I've said before, will lead to nothing but good things for us. Our defense stays rested and hungry. Defensive penalties will drop since we are not making mistakes while playing tired. Opposing D's will tire out and Rice/McGahee will have a hay day. It'll be hard trying to protect Flacco if he's throwing the ball 40+ times every game and I'd like to have him around for a long time so....
If possible, I'd like to trade out of our current CB situation and get something that will allow me to sleep at night. People can say our CB situation is fine, but our defensive pass ranking keeps dropping each week.
[/quote]
Man, i slept horrible sunday night,lol. When people say our corners are fine, they are in denial. They must be watchin the other games on Fox or games which are included in their cable providers' sports package. The games I watch doesnt show what they claim to see. You're right..our rankings drop every week. Teams are racking up yards on our team like never before. I dont think our D was this bad in 2007.

[Steelerkillers]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' date='13 October 2009 - 11:47 AM' timestamp='1255448824' post='256067']
Size means nothing. I brought up several corners in another topic who are the same size or smaller than Fabian and Foxworth but are more physical.
[/quote]
Size means everything when you're clumsy,give up on plays,and definitely not physical. Thats why I didnt exclude Size

[Steelerkillers]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' date='13 October 2009 - 11:47 AM' timestamp='1255448824' post='256067']
Size means nothing. I brought up several corners in another topic who are the same size or smaller than Fabian and Foxworth[b] but are more physical[/b].
[/quote]
that sums it up!

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Steelerkillers' date='13 October 2009 - 11:51 AM' timestamp='1255449067' post='256069']
I dont think our D was this bad in 2007.
[/quote]

The front seven was good in '07 but the secondary was bad all year long. I remember watching C-Mac give up a TD to Arnaz Battle. ARNAZ BATTLE! Samari Rolle was in and out of the line-up. Ladnry gave up TDs and Reed was generally avoided the whole year. Derrick Martin, David Pittman and Jamaine Winborne embarrassed themselves weekly with their inability to tackle or cover. Willie Gaston was actually the best corner in my opinion.

[Steelerkillers]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' date='13 October 2009 - 11:55 AM' timestamp='1255449343' post='256073']
The front seven was good in '07 but the secondary was bad all year long. I remember watching C-Mac give up a TD to Arnaz Battle. ARNAZ BATTLE! Samari Rolle was in and out of the line-up. Ladnry gave up TDs and Reed was generally avoided the whole year. Derrick Martin, David Pittman and Jamaine Winborne embarrassed themselves weekly with their inability to tackle or cover. Willie Gaston was actually the best corner in my opinion.
[/quote]
oh okay,cool! thats why i said "i think our 2007 D wasnt this bad"! i wasnt sure. Maybe its becuz we have more issues this year collectively than 2007.

[Steelerkillers]

arent we givin up more yrds and points than 07?

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Steelerkillers' date='13 October 2009 - 12:00 PM' timestamp='1255449635' post='256079']
arent we givin up more yrds and points than 07?
[/quote]

Probably.

Looking back, the pass coverage was actually pretty good on the final drive. It's just the defense gave Palmer & Co. 30 yards free yards off of penalties(two of them completely unnecessary) and the refs missed Caldwell pulling on Carr's facemask.

[Steelerkillers]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' date='13 October 2009 - 12:07 PM' timestamp='1255450035' post='256086']
Probably.

Looking back, the pass coverage was actually pretty good on the final drive. It's just the defense gave Palmer & Co. 30 yards free yards off of penalties(two of them completely unnecessary) and the refs missed Caldwell pulling on Carr's facemask.
[/quote]
The refs zero'd in on us that game. I recall a few snaps before that..Trevor Pryce was about to sack Palmer..I think on 4th down, the O-Tackle gripped Trevors face-mask for 5 seconds, preventing the sack. Of course they didnt call it. They were so focussed on activity down-field. Im still hurt from that game. I cant even watch highlights of it. Bad enuff that Nfl network show replays of our games...which are all losses.

[ONCDMV]

[quote name='Ed_Reed_Pick_Six' date='12 October 2009 - 04:17 AM' timestamp='1255335429' post='255109']
Ok, for those of you decent enough to not have dismissed our hopes already, what do we need to do starting next week? What are our biggest weaknesses?

In my opinion, [i]Chris Carr[/i] has not been up to standard. [i]Discipline[/i] is far from 'Raven standard' and our [i]pass defense[/i] is a worry.

I won't go to in depth; instead opening the floor for those who still have faith and want to seriously discuss how our team can improve - rather than make brash statements.
[/quote]
I believe we r still in the mix,11 games,plenty of time to correct mistakes. Im not a person who lives in the past, so I won't focus to much on the last two weeks, but I do want to stress how important the next few weeks r for us (INCLUDING BYE WEEK).I think after bye week win or loss to vikings u will see a complete diffrent team FOCUSED ON THE PLAYOFF RUN, in the league better take notice. Because when it becomes more about winning in less about stats, thats when B-MORE is at its best.

[TSizzle00]

[quote name='Osiris' date='12 October 2009 - 05:08 AM' timestamp='1255338507' post='255113']
I like this thread. Thank you.

Here's what I see as the Ravens weaknesses:

[list=1]

[*]More [b]consistency [/b]and [b]balance [/b]in our play-calling: I am not claiming to be the expert here, but I think more balance is needed. We have 3 great players back there, Ray, Willis and Leron and Cam is rushing less than 20 times a game. Btw, where was Willis yesterday!?

[*][b]Our defense[/b]: I feel they kind of lost their pride. I love to watch the Jets defense now, you can see them all fired up on the line of scrimmage, moving around, blitzing or faking it. Our defense seems old and lazy. we are mainly pass rushing with 3 or maximum 4 guys. I don't know who to blame here: Mattison? the guys?

[*][b]Secondary[/b]: Fox and Fab are solid players, not elite, but solid. I am afraid this cannot be changed, we have to live with it, it will be there the whole season. Mattison can use more double team, or more coverage.. but as far as the quality of our CBs, this is what we have.

[*]And most importantly, [b]Discipline[/b]: That's the second straight week that penalties cost us the game. These are the NFL rules, if you want to play the game you have to abide by them. No need to whine and cry about the officiating. There's no conspiracy here! All we need is some discipline. Imagine the last Bengals drive without that penalty on Ray. They were on midfield! And this penalty on Landry's sack! I think Harb should do a better job when it comes with field discipline.
[/list]


I think next week against the Viking will be crucial. Hopefully Gaither will be back. If we win, we defeat a great team and get our pride back.
[/quote]

Yea that Jets defense is real good. I liked how the Dolphins Wildcat offense drove up and down the field and Ronnie Brown taking a direct snap and running up the middle to win the game made the Jets D look real good...lol

[Ed_Reed_Pick_Six]

Anyone think we should run some wildcat with Ray Rice under center?