Passing Vs Rushing

[mhead66]

Hammer and I have been "spamming" threads with our ongoing debate. So, I wanted to let Ravens fans settle our friendly debate. Question:

1. Should Cam Cameron use a more balanced offense, using more of the 3 headed monster of last year to go with Flacco's success in passing?

2. Should Cam use a passing attack, similar to the NE effort, with 47 passes and 17 rushes, which has led us to the #3 offense?

I've stated, over and over, that the top 7 rushing teams in the NFL made the playoffs last year, and 5 of the 9 top passing teams did not. Rushing allows you to physically dominate and intimidate the other team, wear them out, and produce a favorable TOP.

Hammer has stated that an excellent passing attack provides the rushing success this year, and that scoring points, regardless of method, is more important... even if the passing game is accentuated.

I hope that I represented Hammer's position fairly, in speaking for him. I didn't want this poll/post to be too lengthy; if you wish to read both of our points of view in more depth, read the 10+ posts we've argued this in...

[K-Dog]

I voted it doesnt matter.

You play to your defences weakness, and/ or the sitution at hand. If the defence has zero passing defence then pass till the cows come home. Get a big huge lead then run the ball or short pass to burn some clock.

If the D has a strong pass defence and really cant stop the run, then duh, run.
If they have a good all around defence then keep it mixed up. It is a case by case and situation by situation basis.

Besides it has been SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO long since we have had a QB of this quality it sure is exciting to see the ball get aired out sucessfully.

[Steelerkillers]

[quote name='K-Dog' date='10 October 2009 - 10:42 PM' timestamp='1255228955' post='252711']
I voted it doesnt matter.

You play to your defences weakness, and/ or the sitution at hand. If the defence has zero passing defence then pass till the cows come home. Get a big huge lead then run the ball or short pass to burn some clock.

If the D has a strong pass defence and really cant stop the run, then duh, run.
If they have a good all around defence then keep it mixed up. It is a case by case and situation by situation basis.

Besides it has been SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO long since we have had a QB of this quality it sure is exciting to see the ball get aired out sucessfully.
[/quote]
With those Backs, I think we should run slightly more than the last game, on a consistent basis. So, I voted Pass too much, run too little. I think we need a more balanced attack of rushing & passing. If I had to choose which of these we should do more, it would be rushing becuz of clock management. In addition, Successful rushing will obviously give berth to productive play action and/or the deep pass. I jus believe that when we're successful rushing, we're more unpredictable and unstoppable. So, why not use the "run 1st" philosophy with the arsenal we have? It jus makes sense

[XxSizzleXx]

You will see more touches for Rice and Mcgahee this week vs the Bungalos, I can`t see Flacco throwing for 45 times again. Have faith in CC as he knows what he is doing, were 3-1 which is a great start to the season.

[Gtown Purple]

Doesn't matter to me as long as we win. You play to your strengths andf the weaknesses of the team you are playing. It's impossible to look the same every week.

[Steelerkillers]

[quote name='Gtown Purple' date='10 October 2009 - 11:48 PM' timestamp='1255232886' post='252728']
Doesn't matter to me as long as we win. You play to your strengths andf the weaknesses of the team you are playing. It's impossible to look the same every week.
[/quote]
I agree! Thats basically what coach Harbs said. However, last Sunday gave the results of having weapons, but fail to use them. Trigger Happy= No Heap, 3rd & 1= No MClain. We didnt even play to the strengths & weaknesses of our opponent. It's impossible to look exactly the same every week. However, not impossible to use the same weapons and stick to your guns every week. Im with you on Winning and nuthin else matters. But it sucks when you lose becuz you didnt stick to your formula.

[Ed_Reed_Pick_Six]

Or another option, it's too early to accurately assess either way. Yes, we should have passed more vs New England. I didn't see these threads popping up rapidly the three weeks before when we won our games.

[JoeCool#5]

I choose, it doesnt matter, as long as the Ravens win. Cause when it comes right down to Wins and Losses. One win can be the difference between making a playoff run and sitting home.

In a dream world, I would like to see 50 pct run, 50 pct pass to keep defenses guessing. But you really have to go with the hot hand that week. If you are getting 4-5 yards a carry. You have to run the ball down their throats until the other team adapts & stops it or keep running and once in a while bust out the play action for a quick strike. Just like the pass. if you see a corner cant cover anyone on the team. you have to expose him. Really just depends on what is having success.

As far as the pats game I kept saying to my friends, "The Ravens need to get Ground Rice going". I wanted to see more run plays to keep the defense on their toes, for the Ravens had plenty of time.

But that is in the past.


I just want to see a well balance offense that can beat you from the ground or the air (like the first 3 weeks). I wouldnt mind seeing the Ravens just running 70 pct of the time this week. I love to see the Cinncy have 8 in the box trying to stop our 2 headed monster. (would say 3 headed but McClain hasnt been used much late =/)
Having the run set up the pass, I just hate to see 3 and long situations where the offense are forced to pass and the Ravens become less perdictable with the play calling.

[hammer]

[quote name='mhead66' date='10 October 2009 - 10:06 PM' timestamp='1255226790' post='252704']
Hammer and I have been "spamming" threads with our ongoing debate. So, I wanted to let Ravens fans settle our friendly debate. Question:

1. Should Cam Cameron use a more balanced offense, using more of the 3 headed monster of last year to go with Flacco's success in passing?

2. Should Cam use a passing attack, similar to the NE effort, with 47 passes and 17 rushes, which has led us to the #3 offense?

I've stated, over and over, that the top 7 rushing teams in the NFL made the playoffs last year, and 5 of the 9 top passing teams did not. Rushing allows you to physically dominate and intimidate the other team, wear them out, and produce a favorable TOP.

Hammer has stated that an excellent passing attack provides the rushing success this year, and that scoring points, regardless of method, is more important... even if the passing game is accentuated.

I hope that I represented Hammer's position fairly, in speaking for him. I didn't want this poll/post to be too lengthy; if you wish to read both of our points of view in more depth, read the 10+ posts we've argued this in...
[/quote]

My position is this - it matters not whether we pass or throw. I matters not whether we have balance or time of possession. What REALLY matters is our SCORING EFFICIENCY and RED ZONE EFFICIENCY and Cam's playcalling has maximixed both of these to almost perfection. He is the most clever, unpredictable playcaller in the NFL. It's not JUST the number of passes or runs, it's also the TYPES of passes or runs that Cam calls, ALWAYS considering down and distance. I love the fact that he uses deception in his running schemes, such as draws and traps from the shotgun or straight dropback (passing formations). The Ravens lead the league in first downs and they have been lights out in the Red Zone. Most Red Zone touchdowns have been runs of five or more yards without the backs even being touched. This is unheard of and I don't think you realize the WHY of why this is happening. But the summary of my REAL point is this - we actually shouldn't even be talking about the offense on THIS Ravens Team, except to heap copious amounts of praise. Now, the defense....THAT'S where improvements, if any, need to be made. And even they should only be minor.

[Ed_Reed_Pick_Six]

I would save second-guessing unless a continual trend of poor play-calling cost us games. Otherwise, it doesn't matter and is too soon to judge anyway.

[hammer]

[quote name='hammer' date='11 October 2009 - 02:25 AM' timestamp='1255242312' post='252756']
My position is this - it matters not whether we pass or throw. I matters not whether we have balance or time of possession. What REALLY matters is our SCORING EFFICIENCY and RED ZONE EFFICIENCY and Cam's playcalling has maximixed both of these to almost perfection. He is the most clever, unpredictable playcaller in the NFL. It's not JUST the number of passes or runs, it's also the TYPES of passes or runs that Cam calls, ALWAYS considering down and distance. I love the fact that he uses deception in his running schemes, such as draws and traps from the shotgun or straight dropback (passing formations). The Ravens lead the league in first downs and they have been lights out in the Red Zone. Most Red Zone touchdowns have been runs of five or more yards without the backs even being touched. This is unheard of and I don't think you realize the WHY of why this is happening. But the summary of my REAL point is this - we actually shouldn't even be talking about the offense on THIS Ravens Team, except to heap copious amounts of praise. Now, the defense....THAT'S where improvements, if any, need to be made. And even they should only be minor.
[/quote]

BTW, Please allow me to apologize if the term "argument" is how you see my interaction. That might be too harsh a word to describe my intention. My attitude could be better described as a "debate," and a "friendly" one at that. I am not trying to offend you, but to share my opinion. I appreciate you and the friendly back and forth nature of the thread. No argument though.

[Dan The Man Ravens #1 Fan]

[quote name='hammer' date='11 October 2009 - 02:25 AM' timestamp='1255242312' post='252756']
My position is this - it matters not whether we pass or throw. I matters not whether we have balance or time of possession. What REALLY matters is our SCORING EFFICIENCY and RED ZONE EFFICIENCY and Cam's playcalling has maximixed both of these to almost perfection. He is the most clever, unpredictable playcaller in the NFL. It's not JUST the number of passes or runs, it's also the TYPES of passes or runs that Cam calls, ALWAYS considering down and distance. I love the fact that he uses deception in his running schemes, such as draws and traps from the shotgun or straight dropback (passing formations). The Ravens lead the league in first downs and they have been lights out in the Red Zone. Most Red Zone touchdowns have been runs of five or more yards without the backs even being touched. This is unheard of and I don't think you realize the WHY of why this is happening. But the summary of my REAL point is this - we actually shouldn't even be talking about the offense on THIS Ravens Team, except to heap copious amounts of praise. Now, the defense....THAT'S where improvements, if any, need to be made. And even they should only be minor.
[/quote]

Hammer I am going to have to agree with most of what you said here. Efficiency is what determines balance not quantity of plays of pass vs. run. Last year we ran the ball over 60% of the time, usually with great success. Our passing game was in the trial and error stage with our new QB. This year the book is open and our offense is having success both throwing and running. We are 3-1 , WHAT WAS THE QUESTION? LOL

[POPS1]

First, not being a coach I have to put my faith in Cameron and Harbaugh that they know what they are doing. I wouldn't have said that about a lot of the OCs we've had in the past. That certainly seemed like a lot of passes last week but you have to believe it was dictated by circumstances, defensive alignments, defensive personnel, etc. Having said that, it does seem that adding a bit more Le'Ron Mclain to the mix would be beneficial. He seems to have become the odd man out in our running attack but given his enormous contribution to our ground attack last year a bit more of #33 would seem appropriate. Of course, I'm all for 19 3-0 wins. Not exciting but it'll get you a Super Bowl. I think I'm more concerned about our back end defense and return game. We're just not there yet in either of those two phases of the game which is troubling given the fact that we brought in two new guys to help in that area. My guess is we'll see a lot more offensive balance today but Palmer has the talent to shred our secondary if given the chance. Ravens 27-13.