Physicallity Of Corners

[charchboii]

do yall think we need more physical corners

[Gtown Purple]

It's definitely worked for us in the past but as far as being a necessity I don't think so. Washington and Foxworth are doing ok so far but the entire defense needs to play better.

[Ed_Reed20]

Washington has improved his tackling since last season but he still isn't very physical. Foxworth is a good cover corner but from what I've seen, he isn't very physical either. To me, Walker and Webb are physical corners but Walker struggles in coverage at times and Webb is young and needs to add bulk. I personally think Walker should be the nickel despite his struggles because Carr hasn't done anything but we'll see what the coaches do.

[Rocky Mountain Raven]

It seems to me that they give too much space, expecting to be able to make it up but good QB's expose the leniency. I'd like to see them play more physical and bump at the line, especially when blitzing.

[mhead66]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' date='09 October 2009 - 03:27 PM' timestamp='1255116420' post='252285']
Washington has improved his tackling since last season but he still isn't very physical. Foxworth is a good cover corner but from what I've seen, he isn't very physical either. To me, Walker and Webb are physical corners but Walker struggles in coverage at times and Webb is young and needs to add bulk. I personally think Walker should be the nickel despite his struggles because Carr hasn't done anything but we'll see what the coaches do.
[/quote]
Good points - If I had a choice between a good tackling/marginal cover corner (Walker) and a marginal tackler/better cover corner (Fox & Fab), I'd take the latter. As long as they can get the receiver down, if they're one-on-one...

Sure, it'd be nice to have both, but not everyone is C-Mac of '06... A football team is always a work in progress, teaching the players you have and picking up better talents.

Carr seems to be neither. He's only 5'10 and doesn't seem to have significant cover or tackling skills - which would be okay, if he shown great return skills. But... he hasn't.

[JEEPercreepermd]

In defense of Frank Walker, Both Brady and Rivers got him 1on1 in the end zone and went after him, he answered the call. True he had a tough pre-season but I think he's good enough.

[Ravensfan23]

I don't think so. I think both have done a pretty good job coming up and helping with run support.

It has been the LBs and Safeties that has had the problems with tackling and being physical. Now some of this is a direct result of inexperience and injuries. At the LB position, guys like T. Good, McClain and Ellerbe are really young. So they are not as quick to react to certain plays as a guy like Bart was. Actually if you can watch the games in HD, you'll actually hear Ray coaching these young guys up pre-snap. Watching 1 Winning Drive allows you to see the coaching on the sidelines that Ray does. Because of the fact that these young guys are thinking more so then just reacting to what they see, they are a step slow to the ball or they play too fast and out of control when tackling. This will improve with time.

As for the safety play, its hard for Ed to be as physical as we would like because of the neck injury and much like Tom Brady, Landry is still knocking off the rust of not playing football for almost a full year. Imo this is why we are seeing TEs and slot WRs have such success against the defense this year.

In the NE game, the Ravens missed 5 tackles on plays that should have been stopped short of the 1st down. Those 5 missed tackles resulted in 70 pass yards and 5 drive continuing 1st down. That was just on passing plays and none of the missed tackles were by Fabs or Fox.

All of this will improve as the season goes on imo. We are just fine, the Ravens will start to hit full stride over the second half of the schedule and that is when its most important.

[bossman419]

[quote name='JEEPercreepermd' date='09 October 2009 - 04:25 PM' timestamp='1255119959' post='252300']
In defense of Frank Walker, Both Brady and Rivers got him 1on1 in the end zone and went after him, he answered the call. True he had a tough pre-season but I think he's good enough.
[/quote]
The only problem with Frank Walker is for every nice play he makes, he also makes two mistakes.

[Mick0311]

[quote name='Rocky Mountain Raven' date='09 October 2009 - 01:35 PM' timestamp='1255116921' post='252288']
It seems to me that they give too much space, expecting to be able to make it up but good QB's expose the leniency. I'd like to see them play more physical and bump at the line, especially when blitzing.
[/quote]


Exactly, I never understood why corners would give a guy an 8-10 yd cushion on a 3rd and 5.

[ONCDMV]

[quote name='charchboii' date='09 October 2009 - 02:58 PM' timestamp='1255114734' post='252272']
do yall think we need more physical corners
[/quote]
In my opinion, I think FOX needs to become more solid, but I agree with GTOWN PURPLE. The whole defense needs to step up, giving up 20 points a game is not RAVENS football.

[macbrak]

The problem with our secondary is they sometimes play for the take away more then stopping the play. There are some QBs who can be baited but others...

[charchboii]

i didnt mean about their tackling i meant them not pressin recievers at the line

[BeastModeOn]

BRO. we already have a corners topic already as it is.. and most people already agree that our corners are getting the job done. why do we need more physical corners, when there pretty physical now and have amazing speed. its our safetys we need to be looking at. they pretty much leave fabian and fox hanging.. this is probley our best tandem at corners in a long time.. go read "OUR CORNERS" TOPIC.

[charchboii]

[quote name='BeastModeOn' date='09 October 2009 - 11:57 PM' timestamp='1255147031' post='252456']
BRO. we already have a corners topic already as it is.. and most people already agree that our corners are getting the job done. why do we need more physical corners, when there pretty physical now and have amazing speed. its our safetys we need to be looking at. they pretty much leave fabian and fox hanging.. this is probley our best tandem at corners in a long time.. go read "OUR CORNERS" TOPIC.
[/quote]
would u calm down i never said they werent good i just want them to be more physical at the line and sorry im new on the board

[wayne]

Having physical corners would be alot helpful ( see Randy Moss only TD last game as Brady loft the ball up in the air)for our style of play as we like to blitz alot and let Ed roam free to do what he does!We need atleast 1 physical, tall CB thats decent for these basketball type of WR's!

[XxSizzleXx]

I think Webb has the potential to be a pretty good shutdown corner, but he is still young and light. It's too bad that Samari won't be back for that depth at CB.

[hammer]

Yeah, no doubt about it. Ravens corners are soft. A lot of teams have soft corner though. The Ravens REAL problem though is that the safties ar SOFT TOO. Ed Reed is a cover safety and Leonard was a poor tackler too. The front seven is responsible to make ALL of the tackles. This is a problem. The only tackling corners the ravens have EVER had was Starks, McAllister and Ivey. They're gone. Rolle, Washington and Foxworth (I love you homeboy) are SOFT! and Reed is tenative. One of the Ravens hallmarsk has always been good tackling, both at the line of scrimmage and in open field. This is lost with this team, and it didn;t start this year. If Mattison wants to make HIS mark on this team, he should start with the DEMAND of putting good cover guys and good TACKLING guys out there. That can be HIS trademark. BUT UNFORTUNATELY, HE APPEARS TO BE soft too.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='hammer' date='10 October 2009 - 03:23 AM' timestamp='1255159394' post='252482']
Yeah, no doubt about it. Ravens corners are soft. A lot of teams have soft corner though. The Ravens REAL problem though is that the safties ar SOFT TOO. Ed Reed is a cover safety and Leonard was a poor tackler too. The front seven is responsible to make ALL of the tackles. This is a problem. The only tackling corners the ravens have EVER had was Starks, McAllister and Ivey. They're gone. Rolle, Washington and Foxworth (I love you homeboy) are SOFT! and Reed is tenative. One of the Ravens hallmarsk has always been good tackling, both at the line of scrimmage and in open field. This is lost with this team, and it didn;t start this year. If Mattison wants to make HIS mark on this team, he should start with the DEMAND of putting good cover guys and good TACKLING guys out there. That can be HIS trademark. BUT UNFORTUNATELY, HE APPEARS TO BE soft too.
[/quote]

I'm not sure I understand your comments about Mattison, so I'll ask instead of attacking the comments.

Are you saying that in one offseason, Mattison should have been responsible for building a tough defense? A defense by the was that is known to be one of the toughest in the NFL.

Are you saying that Mattison should have DEMANDED that Ozzie and Harbs find him better players then the ones that helped form one of the best defenses?

Are you saying that Mattison is SOFT because Ed Reed doesn't tackles as well with his neck injury as he did before, or because Landry isn't tackling as well now, coming off a bad neck injury?

I agree that the Ravens need to get better at making the initial tackle. That is what hurt us in the Pats game more so then big plays down field.

However if you are saying that Mattison is soft as a result of all this, then I think that is a foolish statement. But again I'd rather ask what you meant by this before I attack that statement.

[JEEPercreepermd]

[quote name='ONCDMV' date='09 October 2009 - 07:20 PM' timestamp='1255130438' post='252390']
In my opinion, I think FOX needs to become more solid, but I agree with GTOWN PURPLE. The whole defense needs to step up, giving up 20 points a game is not RAVENS football.
[/quote]
People complaining about the Ravens defense giving up 20 points a game is getting kinda old. The defense wasn't at fault for all 24 points against KC. They held them under 200yds, KC scores on a blocked punt and on an INT that was returned inside the 5. After that the Ravens D was really only responsible for 10 points, they gave up one long pass that resulted in a 53yd FG and one TD drive.

They gave up 24 to San Diego, IN San Diego and 100 degree heat on the field. Yet, they still came up with two key INT's and a 4th down stop to win the game. Let's not forget that San Diego has a very good QB and monster receivers.

Next week, we hold Cleveland to 3.

Week 4, the Pats score 27 (the same amount they scored on us in 07) But let's not forget that 14 of those points came only after their drive was extended on penalties. Brady 250yds 1td. Moss 50yds 1td. and Welker was almost non existant. Also, the Defense got the ball back to give Flacco and the Offense a chance to win the game, and they scored a TD

This defense is fine

[JEEPercreepermd]

[quote name='wayne' date='10 October 2009 - 02:13 AM' timestamp='1255155221' post='252469']
Having physical corners would be alot helpful ( see Randy Moss only TD last game as Brady loft the ball up in the air)for our style of play as we like to blitz alot and let Ed roam free to do what he does!We need atleast 1 physical, tall CB thats decent for these basketball type of WR's!
[/quote]
Nothing against Foxworth, but when you have Moss 1 on 1 with him in the endzone with Tom Brady throwing the ball to him, he's bound to make a play eventually. I do agree with you though.

[hammer]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' date='10 October 2009 - 09:11 AM' timestamp='1255180292' post='252503']
I'm not sure I understand your comments about Mattison, so I'll ask instead of attacking the comments.

Are you saying that in one offseason, Mattison should have been responsible for building a tough defense? A defense by the was that is known to be one of the toughest in the NFL.

Are you saying that Mattison should have DEMANDED that Ozzie and Harbs find him better players then the ones that helped form one of the best defenses?

Are you saying that Mattison is SOFT because Ed Reed doesn't tackles as well with his neck injury as he did before, or because Landry isn't tackling as well now, coming off a bad neck injury?

I agree that the Ravens need to get better at making the initial tackle. That is what hurt us in the Pats game more so then big plays down field.

However if you are saying that Mattison is soft as a result of all this, then I think that is a foolish statement. But again I'd rather ask what you meant by this before I attack that statement.
[/quote]

Your point is valid regarding Mattison's not being responsible for Ozzies signings. However, Mattison SHOULD focus practice on tackling, now that he sees we don't do that well. No, it is not REALLY HIS FAULT, but it REALLY IS HIS PROBLEM. I'm just saying that he needs to fix it.

[BloodRaven]

After watching Charles Woodson [b]press guys for the entire length of most pass plays[/b] I think maybe Fabs and Foxy should spend some time with Matsko

[hammer]

[quote name='BloodRaven' date='10 October 2009 - 10:22 AM' timestamp='1255184560' post='252520']
After watching Charles Woodson [b]press guys for the entire length of most pass plays[/b] I think maybe Fabs and Foxy should spend some time with Matsko
[/quote]

I agree. These guys actually have a lot of talent. they just need to get tougher and more aggresive. The tackling dummy has no fear of these guys either.

[Corvus]

As I said in another topic, the problem is not on Wash and Fox. Sure, I guess they could be a little more "physical" but understand that even the best corners in league, guys who are head and shoulders above our guys, can only blanket receivers for so long. If we are not getting pressure with the front seven it makes the secondary's job that more difficult. Our entire defense needs to improve at every position right now, and I know Ray and coach mattison are making sure that happens every week.

[Dan The Man Ravens #1 Fan]

I agree with most of the posters who think that Fab and Fox are doing a pretty good job. These two guys are not built to man handle anyone. They are both built to run and cover with any reciever in this league. I dont think there is one reciever out there who is going to run away from these guys. Now I think they could do a little more bump and run if they are in a man situation and stop giving 10 to 12 yard advantage off the line.

As mentioned, there are not too many corners out there who can play physical coverage every down and substain that coverage for long periods. It is just too difficult. Given time, any reciever will eventually get open. That is where pressure from the front seven comes into play. We have been getting pretty good pressure from the 4-3 and it will continue to improve as the season progresses.

When it comes to the tackling issue I have to agree that we have not been as "sure tacklers" as in the past. When it comes to Fox and Fab though, I have not seen too many plays where they have not made the initial tackle. That problem has mainly been with our linebackers which is a big suprise with the history we have.

To wrap up I think that, as fans, we need to be patient and enjoy what we have. I expect and wouldnt want it any other way than to be clicking on all cylinders and be at out best come the end of the schedule going into the playoffs.

[hammer]

[quote name='Dan The Man Ravens #1 Fan' date='10 October 2009 - 11:27 AM' timestamp='1255188428' post='252552']
I agree with most of the posters who think that Fab and Fox are doing a pretty good job. These two guys are not built to man handle anyone. They are both built to run and cover with any reciever in this league. I dont think there is one reciever out there who is going to run away from these guys. Now I think they could do a little more bump and run if they are in a man situation and stop giving 10 to 12 yard advantage off the line.

As mentioned, there are not too many corners out there who can play physical coverage every down and substain that coverage for long periods. It is just too difficult. Given time, any reciever will eventually get open. That is where pressure from the front seven comes into play. We have been getting pretty good pressure from the 4-3 and it will continue to improve as the season progresses.

When it comes to the tackling issue I have to agree that we have not been as "sure tacklers" as in the past. When it comes to Fox and Fab though, I have not seen too many plays where they have not made the initial tackle. That problem has mainly been with our linebackers which is a big suprise with the history we have.

To wrap up I think that, as fans, we need to be patient and enjoy what we have. I expect and wouldnt want it any other way than to be clicking on all cylinders and be at out best come the end of the schedule going into the playoffs.
[/quote]

That sounds like a REASONABLE observation.

[RavenfanNdaDubK]

So, when are the corners going to step up. We're number 1 against the run and pushing the bottom of the barrell in the pass game!!!

[BeastModeOn]

[quote name='RavenfanNdaDubK' date='10 October 2009 - 05:13 PM' timestamp='1255212805' post='252654']
So, when are the corners going to step up. We're number 1 against the run and pushing the bottom of the barrell in the pass game!!!
[/quote]

the question is when is our linebackers gonna step up in coverage as well as safteys.

[Steelerkillers]

I think its a combination of Size & Physicality against much taller and more physical receivers

[Raven_In_Canada]

Do you guys think that maybe they're scared of getting called for a pass interference? Personally, I prefer an all out hit team but that's me. If you punish the WR that catches the ball near you, he'll think twice before coming around you again. Rodney Harrison understood that . But then, this isn't the NFL from 10 years ago so I honestly don't know.