Merged: Mark Clayton Threads

[flynismo]

[quote name='BloodRaven' date='05 October 2009 - 08:07 AM' timestamp='1254744452' post='249823']
[b]*sigh*

flynismo, get the pitchforks... i'll get the torches.[/b]
[/quote]

Yeah man, time to burn this outhouse down.

Seriously, when do the excuses stop and the production begin?

[PuRock]

[quote name='flynismo' date='05 October 2009 - 09:46 AM' timestamp='1254750401' post='249881']
Yeah man, time to burn this outhouse down.

Seriously, when do the excuses stop and the production begin?
[/quote]

Like I said before. At the start of the season I stood up for Clayton. Thinking it was the system or Flacco is young. But after the dropped route against the Browns and the obvious dropped pass yesterday. Plus three tough passes not caught in the endzone. I'm finally off Clayton's side.

Unless you throw him the ball when he has about 3 steps seperation, he's probably not going to catch the ball. And speaking of which, how often does he get this seperation anymore? We can go games without having hearing his name called.

Clayton didn't lose us the game yesterday, but he didn't help. Was he worth a 1st? Nope. Probably more like a 4th. Instead of standing up for him, he's going to need to prove me wrong now.

[flynismo]

[quote name='I AM LEGEND' date='05 October 2009 - 08:20 AM' timestamp='1254745227' post='249828']
Well after looking at the giants and colts this year at least you know it's possible to draft rookie Wr's that can come in and contribute early..
[/quote]

Kenny Britt has played well, for the most part, Percy Harvin is tearing it up, Eddie Royal and DeShaun Jackson last year....I can go on and on (that Randy Moss fellow had an okay rookie season, did he not?)

But I'd honestly rather reload on defense in the draft next year, unless a stud falls in our laps. There's quite a few good WR's who are potential free agents, so we can always snatch one of them.

[flynismo]

[quote name='PuRock' date='05 October 2009 - 09:52 AM' timestamp='1254750735' post='249883']
Like I said before. At the start of the season I stood up for Clayton. Thinking it was the system or Flacco is young. But after the dropped route against the Browns and the obvious dropped pass yesterday. Plus three tough passes not caught in the endzone. I'm finally off Clayton's side.
[b]
Unless you throw him the ball when he has about 3 steps seperation, he's probably not going to catch the ball[/b]. And speaking of which, how often does he get this seperation anymore? We can go games without having hearing his name called.

Clayton didn't lose us the game yesterday, but he didn't help. Was he worth a 1st? Nope. Probably more like a 4th. Instead of standing up for him, he's going to need to prove me wrong now.
[/quote]

And as we saw last night, even then it's no sure thing.

Good to see there are still some honest fans out there.

[Ravens4Lyfe]

Mark Clayton did drop to balls in a row. I think we should be using Kelly Washington as the no. 2 receiver. McClain is our short yardage back not Ray Rice. We got to use McClain who lead the team rushing last year. Also are corners look very vulnerable this season.

[MalonesRavens]

[quote name='Shawn`' date='04 October 2009 - 03:33 PM' timestamp='1254688421' post='248680']
We lost the game for a number of reasons, not just Carr or Clayton.

The Patriots drove the down field at will, almost no contest.
[/quote]


It's Easy to drive at will on us when the refs give them every break imaginable on 3rd DOWN!!!

The only time they "drove down the field at will" was the series after we sacked Brady and scored a touchdown off of it...

[flynismo]

[quote name='Ravens4Lyfe' date='05 October 2009 - 10:08 AM' timestamp='1254751723' post='249895']
Mark Clayton did drop to balls in a row. I think we should be using Kelly Washington as the no. 2 receiver. McClain is our short yardage back not Ray Rice. We got to use McClain who lead the team rushing last year. Also are corners look very vulnerable this season.
[/quote]

I tried to defend our CB's after the SD game, but they're making it hard to continue defending them. They need to improve, fast.

[ray-ray is a beast-beast]

[quote name='baltiMORE RAVENS' date='04 October 2009 - 10:21 PM' timestamp='1254709267' post='249466']
Not to mention 0% of the posters on this board could have gotten any separation from the db. I ask myself why people complain SO MUCH on here and then I read a post like that and I realize people ACTUALLY THINK THEY CAN DO BETTER. It blows my mind. We have like 100 people on here who think they can play better in an NFL game and another 100 who think they can coach in the NFL. Hilarious. I am sure Owners and GMs will be will be calling to offer you jobs soon wannabees.
[/quote]

Nobody here thinks they can play WR better than Clayton. We can be critical of people who fail at their line of work without thinking that we can do better than them. Just because we can't play football at a professional level doesn't mean we have to blind ourselves to incompetence.


From Don Banks Sports Illustrated "Monday Morning Quarterback":

"[i]Goats of the Week

Mark Clayton, WR, Baltimore

Good for Clayton. He came up big after the game, taking complete blame for the six-point loss to the Patriots. Joe Flacco had his Ravens marching unerringly downfield with a chance to win the game in the final minute. On fourth down, Flacco threw a short fourth-down conversion pass to Clayton inside the Patriots' 10 ... and the ball bounced off the receiver's chest. Good to be noble, but Clayton's still a goat.[/i]"



Do you think Don Banks thinks he can play better than Clayton?


EDIT: Don Banks' also wrote:
[i]
7. New England (3-1). Hey, sometimes good teams have to escape. The Patriots were breathing a pretty big collective sigh of relief [b]after the most catchable ball of this NFL Sunday bounced off Mark Clayton's chest in the final seconds[/b].
[/i]

please don't equate criticism with being delusional.

people who can't or won't be critical, you guys are delusional.

[flynismo]

[quote name='theFRANCHISE' date='05 October 2009 - 08:19 AM' timestamp='1254745193' post='249827']
Even though Mark Clayton is one of the scapegoats for this game (and deservedly so), he just has a knack for bad timing; he starts making plays after he disappears, and then he either blows it or disappears once again. But note part of that statement: "starts making plays" -- that's the only reason why he's the #2 receiver still. Because as much as we hate to admit it, he's made more plays than he's blown.

The irony is, he's barely on the field half the time to have an opportunity to make [i]or[/i] blow a play.

Though I'm in favor of starting Kelley Washington at the #2 spot, there's still questions as to how much he can actually do when he's not in the slot, given his limited knowledge of the playbook.

Sure, as the season progresses, that might not be such a bad idea -- but when you've got a guy who's accustomed to playing slot, who is still learning the playbook, he becomes a potential liability as a primary target. We're getting on Clayton [i]now[/i] for dropping a pass (the latest of many ill-timed drops), but what happens if Washington runs the wrong route in a crucial situation? We've already seen a little miscommunication between himself and Flacco this season. I look at it as a catch-22 proposition until midseason (no pun intended.)

As for elevating Demetrius Williams to the #2 spot over Clayton, that's also a risky proposition, though not as risky as Washington getting the nod. Granted, I still believe Washington is the better receiver of the two, but Williams has more knowledge of the playbook. That means his routes will be safer, but his hands are still questionable -- do we risk another Clayton mishap with a less-experienced guy? Of course, there's also the injury factor to take into consideration, since Williams hasn't had a healthy season since his rookie year.

For now, Mark Clayton has to bounce back from this. He has no option, and neither do the Ravens just yet. Clayton knows two other guys are breathing down his neck for his starting spot, so the onus is on him. Film study will be more torturous for him than anyone else this week, and he is fighting not only for his job but a new contract in the offseason, whether it's with the Ravens or elsewhere.
[/quote]


I don't see the risk in starting Washington over Clayton. Clayton has proven time and time again he's incapable. Washington has not proven much (he has yet to be given the chance to prove his mettle), so what do we do? Do we stick with the proven bust, or do we do something about this and give someone else a chance to get the job done? And as I pointed out earlier, Washington is outplaying Clayton [b]FROM THE BENCH.[/b]
We almost have to at this point, and despite Oz's stubbornness clinging to his first round picks, I would not be shocked if within the next few weeks. I think it's obvious what needs done, I'm just curious if the coaches will do it.

[McBoller]

I understand the endzone throw to clayton as it was basically the same result as clocking the ball, but it gave us a chance to score... But I cant figure out why in the Hell we throw that to clayton and not Washington who is 4 or 5 inches taller. Let him go up and grab that thing!!

[flynismo]

[quote name='ray-ray is a beast-beast' date='05 October 2009 - 10:36 AM' timestamp='1254753403' post='249919']
Nobody here thinks they can play WR better than Clayton. We can be critical of people who fail at their line of work without thinking that we can do better than them. Just because we can't play football at a professional level doesn't mean we have to blind ourselves to incompetence.

[/quote]


It's funny that when faced with reality, some people resort to this idiotic copout rather than just face the facts.

I just ignore these comments, why waste your breath?

[theFRANCHISE]

[quote name='flynismo' date='05 October 2009 - 10:38 AM' timestamp='1254753506' post='249920']
I don't see the risk in starting Washington over Clayton.

And as I pointed out earlier, Washington is outplaying Clayton [b]FROM THE BENCH.[/b]
[/quote]
It's not that I don't condone Washington starting, I just don't think he's ready to start immediately. Like I said, playing from the slot is a whole different beast than playing from the outside, and there's an adjustment period there; I like what the coaches did the last two games and worked him on the outside in certain packages. Before he gets the full-time #2 job, I'd feel more comfortable keeping this rotation going for two more games at least.

In the meantime, either give Demetrius Williams the starting nod over Clayton for now, or force Clayton to redeem himself.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Ed_Reed_Pick_Six' date='04 October 2009 - 10:43 PM' timestamp='1254710629' post='249522']
Well why not if he is playing well? No position should be safe if someone lower on the depth chart initially is outplaying them. Again, I didn't say demote him - just saying I wouldn't throw my toys if he was given a chance.

I think you're just angry at me coz I have the ultimate Ed Reed signature
[/quote]

Playing outside the hash marks and within are very different. Washington has dropped just as many balls as Clayton(2) this year so I don't think he's really outplaying him.

And I'm not angry at you. I just disagree with you on the receiver situation.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='theFRANCHISE' date='05 October 2009 - 10:45 AM' timestamp='1254753929' post='249927']
In the meantime, either give Demetrius Williams the starting nod over Clayton for now, or force Clayton to redeem himself.
[/quote]

I know it was just a suggestion but Williams has done nothing to be given the opportunity to start on the outside.

[mdbear]

[quote name='TSizzle00' date='04 October 2009 - 04:33 PM' timestamp='1254688388' post='248677']
Dropped a perfect pass that hit him in the numbers that would have extended the drive.
[/quote]
This is his problem, he make way too many catches with his body, so when Joe rifles one in there he has nearly no chance of controlling it.

[theFRANCHISE]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' date='05 October 2009 - 10:50 AM' timestamp='1254754229' post='249930']
I know it was just a suggestion but Williams has [b]done nothing[/b] to be given the opportunity to start on the outside.
[/quote]
Neither has Clayton, technically.

[McBoller]

[quote name='theFRANCHISE' date='05 October 2009 - 10:45 AM' timestamp='1254753929' post='249927']
It's not that I don't condone Washington starting, I just don't think he's ready to start immediately. Like I said, playing from the slot is a whole different beast than playing from the outside, and there's an adjustment period there; I like what the coaches did the last two games and worked him on the outside in certain packages. Before he gets the full-time #2 job, I'd feel more comfortable keeping this rotation going for two more games at least.

In the meantime, either give Demetrius Williams the starting nod over Clayton for now, or force Clayton to redeem himself.
[/quote]
Yes,but just b/c washington is the number 3 doesnt mean he cant line up at wideout for a certain play where his height would be an advantage, just like the corner route into the endzone that clayton dropped.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='theFRANCHISE' date='05 October 2009 - 10:52 AM' timestamp='1254754327' post='249934']
Neither has Clayton, technically.
[/quote]

Wow. He has TWO drops on the season. One of them happened to seal a loss. People are overreacting to this way too much.

[BuckWilds]

[quote name='Alexir' date='04 October 2009 - 05:48 PM' timestamp='1254692881' post='249007']
I understand where everyone is coming from on Clayton's drop. It was a horrible drop and 90% of us could have caught it. But he has also made some grabs that 0% of us can catch.

It was the reason we didnt win the game but it wasnt the reason we lost. If that make sense to anyone lol
[/quote]

Actually, I think that's the most logical, beautiful thing you've ever written Alexir. +1

[PuRock]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' date='05 October 2009 - 10:59 AM' timestamp='1254754744' post='249940']
Wow. He has TWO drops on the season. One of them happened to seal a loss. People are overreacting to this way too much.
[/quote]

What about the drop route last week against the Browns. He had his man beat. He read Flacco's pass as short and slowed down. It could've been a touchdown. From what I can tell, he has issues with reading passes.

This isn't a one time thing.

What about the TD catch at KC? What about it? He had his three step separation.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='PuRock' date='05 October 2009 - 11:07 AM' timestamp='1254755261' post='249947']
What about the drop route last week against the Browns. He had his man beat. He read Flacco's pass as short and slowed down. It could've been a touchdown. From what I can tell, he has issues with reading passes.

This isn't a one time thing.

What about the TD catch at KC? What about it? He had his three step separation.
[/quote]

Are you talking about the late pass that he tried to bring in one-handed?

What's your point in regards to his KC TD catch?

Of course you can isolate individual plays but you have to take the good with the bad with players like Clayton. As inconsistent as he is, Williams is no better and only the coaches know whether Washington can succeed lining up on the outisde.

[baltiMORE RAVENS]

[quote name='ray-ray is a beast-beast' date='05 October 2009 - 10:36 AM' timestamp='1254753403' post='249919']
Nobody here thinks they can play WR better than Clayton. We can be critical of people who fail at their line of work without thinking that we can do better than them. Just because we can't play football at a professional level doesn't mean we have to blind ourselves to incompetence.


From Don Banks Sports Illustrated "Monday Morning Quarterback":

"[i]Goats of the Week

Mark Clayton, WR, Baltimore

Good for Clayton. He came up big after the game, taking complete blame for the six-point loss to the Patriots. Joe Flacco had his Ravens marching unerringly downfield with a chance to win the game in the final minute. On fourth down, Flacco threw a short fourth-down conversion pass to Clayton inside the Patriots' 10 ... and the ball bounced off the receiver's chest. Good to be noble, but Clayton's still a goat.[/i]"



Do you think Don Banks thinks he can play better than Clayton?


EDIT: Don Banks' also wrote:
[i]
7. New England (3-1). Hey, sometimes good teams have to escape. The Patriots were breathing a pretty big collective sigh of relief [b]after the most catchable ball of this NFL Sunday bounced off Mark Clayton's chest in the final seconds[/b].
[/i]

please don't equate criticism with being delusional.

people who can't or won't be critical, you guys are delusional.
[/quote]

The poster I was responding to said that 90% of the people on this forum could have cought that ball that Clayton dropped. That says to me that he thinks he can do a better job of playing WR than Clayton and if you don't see that than you are delusional. If you didn't make comments about how you could do better than Clayton at catching the football or do better than Cam and Mattison at calling plays, then quit crying about my comments. They weren't directed at you.

[PuRock]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' date='05 October 2009 - 11:14 AM' timestamp='1254755648' post='249953']
Are you talking about the late pass that he tried to bring in one-handed?

What's your point in regards to his KC TD catch?

Of course you can isolate individual plays but you have to take the good with the bad with players like Clayton. As inconsistent as he is, Williams is no better and only the coaches know whether Washington can succeed lining up on the outisde.
[/quote]

Not the one handed pass. The pass where he slowed down his route after Flacco had thrown it. He had his man beat, but read the pass as short. It was around the 3rd quarter. I was at the game and saw the total progression of the play. I don't know what they showed you on tv - perhaps it looked like a Flacco overthrow. But that was a clear Clayton misread from the stands.

The point is Clayton can only make the clutch catches if he gets his three step separation. Which he's struggled getting consistency. The problem with Clayton is consistency.

[WinnipegRaven]

[quote name='Andrew Glass' date='04 October 2009 - 02:30 PM' timestamp='1254688200' post='248649']
Beyond that, That was the worst called game i've every watched. 2 drives turned into touch downs from phantom roughing the passer among other calls.
[/quote]
the first flag on Ngata was warranted - you CANNOT get your hands into a QB's face mask. The second on Sizzle was totally bull. I hate how Brady looked at the ref right after Suggs fell (and tried to avoid Brady's knees) and started crying till the flag was thrown - Brady is a football player alright, a European one.

[PuRock]

[quote name='WinnipegRaven' date='05 October 2009 - 11:22 AM' timestamp='1254756130' post='249959']
the first flag on Ngata was warranted - you CANNOT get your hands into a QB's face mask. The second on Sizzle was totally bull. I hate how Brady looked at the ref right after Suggs fell (and tried to avoid Brady's knees) and started crying till the flag was thrown
[/quote]

Then the Brady fist pump once he got the ref to throw the flag.

This is what brady was thinking - "****** yea!, I rock!"

[baltiMORE RAVENS]

[quote name='flynismo' date='05 October 2009 - 10:42 AM' timestamp='1254753733' post='249925']
It's funny that when faced with reality, some people resort to this idiotic copout rather than just face the facts.

I just ignore these comments, why waste your breath?
[/quote]

That is hilarious! Have you ever ignored a post? You have like 3000 posts on here and most of them are arguing with people about how terrible mark clayton is. Face reality, you don't make a difference. Why constantly complain and argue and cry about Mark Clayton when there is nothing you can do about it?

[BuckWilds]

[quote name='PuRock' date='05 October 2009 - 11:25 AM' timestamp='1254756332' post='249961']
Then the Brady fist pump once he got the ref to throw the flag.

This is what brady was thinking - "****** yea!, I rock!"
[/quote]

Yeah, what kind of chump move was that?

"I pointed and made you throw you flag because Suggs stumbled to the ground near me! Yay me!"

If you already didn't think Brady was losing some luster, that will get you rolling in the right direction...

[BuckWilds]

[quote name='baltiMORE RAVENS' date='05 October 2009 - 11:27 AM' timestamp='1254756426' post='249963']
That is hilarious! Have you ever ignored a post? You have like 3000 posts on here and most of them are arguing with people about how terrible mark clayton is. Face reality, you don't make a difference. Why constantly complain and argue and cry about Mark Clayton when there is nothing you can do about it?
[/quote]

I've got one reason to discuss things... It's a discussion board.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='PuRock' date='05 October 2009 - 11:22 AM' timestamp='1254756129' post='249958']
Not the one handed pass. The pass where he slowed down his route after Flacco had thrown it. He had his man beat, but read the pass as short. It was around the 3rd quarter. I was at the game and saw the total progression of the play. I don't know what they showed you on tv - perhaps it looked like a Flacco overthrow. But that was a clear Clayton misread from the stands.

The point is Clayton can only make the clutch catches if he gets his three step separation. Which he's struggled getting consistency. The problem with Clayton is consistency.
[/quote]

I remember the play you're talking about. Yes, he did misread the flight the ball but does that one play prove he can only make clutch catches if he gets 3-step seperation? I clearly remember Clayton making 3 grabs for 20 yards on the same drive yesterday where he had very little separation. I also remember Clayton making a sensational 1-handed grab with Leon Hall holding his left arm last year.

Yes, he's inconsistent but he's still the 2nd best receiver on this team so we'll just have to live with the inconsistency.

[Bullitt_711]

he played well caught a bunch of big catches, should have caught it with his hands, the td opportunity was a really tough catch.