Merged: Mark Clayton Threads

[neepo13]

[quote name='flynismo' date='04 October 2009 - 06:41 PM' timestamp='1254696073' post='249147']
I never said it was all Clayton, now did I? In fact, if you read my posts in other threads, you'll see that for yourself. There were many reasons why we lost, Clayton being one of them.

But I give you an A for effort on trying to deflect the attention away from another garbage game from Mr. First Round pick.
[/quote]
Nice try buddy but your not getting off that easily. You said " does making a few catchs that he should have made make up for blowing the game?". Clayton didnt not blow the game. Sure he was given an opportunity to help us win the game and he blew that opportunity, but blowing one play does not equal blowing the entire game. Like I said before there is plenty of blame to go around for blowing the game. You cant just single out one guy on one play and say thats what lost it. Thats what you guys are doing to Clayton and its not fair.


I am so sick of all the ****ing about him. He's the second best wideout we have right now, it doesnt matter how much you guys hate him, we need him. Let Clayton get hurt or cut like some of you want him to and we'll see how far we get without him. It wont be very far.

[funky141]

[quote]I am so sick of all the ****ing about him. He's the second best wideout we have right now, it doesnt matter how much you guys hate him, we need him. Let Clayton get hurt or cut like some of you want him to and we'll see how far we get without him. It wont be very far.
[/quote]

Second? Clayton is a number 3 at best with Mason as your number 2, thus why you need a #1 WR. This will hold you back.

[Ed_Reed_Pick_Six]

It was a terrible mistake, it was an easy catch, magnified immensely by the scenario. Nonetheless, I'll stick by Clayton.

[flynismo]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' date='04 October 2009 - 09:29 PM' timestamp='1254706145' post='249385']
No, all the catches that Clayton made before hand doesn't make up for dropped ball. I don't think anyone is trying to justify Clayton dropping that pass. I feel that everyone including Clayton is POed at the fact that he dropped the ball.

Someone said that Clayton would be at the bottom of their list of options on 4th down. Well guess what? Right now he should be. I'm sure that he feels he has to earn the trust of Flacco to be an option on a big third down and until he makes a couple of key catches for the team, nobody should have confidence that he'll make a play.

The guy dropped a big pass, big deal get over it, its not the only time it will happen. There are 13 more weeks left in the regular season. As much as some people want it to happen, Clayton will not be cut tomorrow. There is a good chance that Flacco will throw him the ball again sometime this season.

Look I get it, there are people here that don't like Clayton. There are people here that love Clayton. There are people here that until Clayton dropped that ball today didn't care one way or the other, they just wanna see him produce. You have people here that at the first sign of something going wrong they think the sky is falling. You have people here that if we would have won that game, would have been making travel plans for Miami. But at the end of the day, it was just one moment in time, one play in a long line of other plays that cost us a chance to win a game.

It's over. It happened and It's done. If Clayton is called upon next week, he will be depended on to make a play, if he is not called upon then he'll have to earn the trust of his coaches and teammates(which I doubt he's lost). It's one play in a long season. Hell Mason dropped a pass in week 1 that lead to a blocked punt on the very next play, who bashed that guy?

I'm not one of those guys that will claim a guy is great even when he messes up. No, Clayton messed up and he should be held accountable for it, but coming out saying the guy should be fired or some of the other things that were thrown out is uncalled for imo.

It was inexcusable for Clayton to drop that ball. Do you expect more out of him? Yes, but to stone this guy for losing the game isn't right unless you can go back and look for every single play that went wrong and place the blame on the person at fault. But who's gonna do that? That's something that the coaches will do. For everyone one else its just easier to place blame on Clayton. If he's the only guy that made a mistake in this game then I'll shut up and eat crow.
[/quote]


I'd like to add one more category to the list of fans....the people who like clayton, but think he needs to be either benched or let loose after the season. I belong to that list of people.

I can only speak for me, but today was just the last straw for me. And, there have been many, many straws with this guy. At what point do you say "enough is enough?" How many more chances should he get? It's been 4 years going on 5, and we have yet to get any sort of return on the investment we made in him and the commitment we've shown to him.

So, as I was saying, it's not ONLY today's failure, it is his lack of production over a period of years.

[Alexir]

Clayton's drop was equally detrimental to our downfall as was Flaccos pick, Carrs fumble, rice falling on his face twice, harbaughs 15 yd penalty and cams play calling. I love Cam but I felt he turned away from the run too quickly.

[baltiMORE RAVENS]

[quote name='funky141' date='04 October 2009 - 09:50 PM' timestamp='1254707432' post='249411']
Second? Clayton is a number 3 at best with Mason as your number 2, thus why you need a #1 WR. This will hold you back.
[/quote]

Why do you post on here? I can understand if you wanna make some comments when the Ravens play YOUR Colts but why now. I never have understood why fans of other teams hang out on the Ravens message boards. Can you help me out with this one?

[darklight1216]

[quote name='funky141' date='04 October 2009 - 09:50 PM' timestamp='1254707432' post='249411']
Second? Clayton is a number 3 at best with Mason as your number 2, thus why you need a #1 WR. This will hold you back.
[/quote]
No one outside of Baltimore gives Mason enough credit. He's always been a really good receiver. He's had over 1,000 yards 7 of the last 8 years. He holds the record for most all purpose yards in a season. Let's not forget that he was the top receiver of a Super Bowl competitor.He's always caught the ball most of the time, he's been voted into the pro-bowl a couple of times.
Right now, Mason is 11th in receiving yards which is above players such as Chad Ocho, TJ Housh, and Desean Jackson. He's ties with several players for third in touchdown receptions this year. What more does the man have to do in order to be considered a good receiver?

Clayton, on the other hand, seems like he should be third on the depth chart after Mason and Washington.

[baltiMORE RAVENS]

Anyone heard anything about this? I got it off of cbssports

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/rapid-reports/team/BAL/all_tags/today

Ravens coach John Harbaugh was irate after the game - exploding at a Ravens public relations official because a local radio announcer held a microphone right next to him at a press conference. He also got right in Ravens GM Ozzie Newsome's face and yelled at him, too.

I wonder how the Oz reacted.

[MagicianCamille]

[quote name='Alexir' date='04 October 2009 - 05:48 PM' timestamp='1254692881' post='249007']It was a horrible drop and 90% of us could have caught it.
[/quote]

I don't think anyone that posts on this message board could have caught it. Two defensive players barreling down on you, 4th down, the game on the line.

Please.

[MagicianCamille]

[quote name='funky141' date='04 October 2009 - 09:50 PM' timestamp='1254707432' post='249411']
Second? Clayton is a number 3 at best with Mason as your number 2, thus why you need a #1 WR. This will hold you back.
[/quote]



Maybe if we smile and nod he'll just go away.

[flynismo]

[quote name='neepo13' date='04 October 2009 - 09:46 PM' timestamp='1254707179' post='249405']
Nice try buddy but your not getting off that easily. You said " does making a few catchs that he should have made make up for blowing the game?". Clayton didnt not blow the game. Sure he was given an opportunity to help us win the game and he blew that opportunity, but blowing one play does not equal blowing the entire game. Like I said before there is plenty of blame to go around for blowing the game. You cant just single out one guy on one play and say thats what lost it. Thats what you guys are doing to Clayton and its not fair. [/quote]

All I got out of that was that "it's not fair to blame the loss on Clayton when he was three yards away from scoring the game winning TD and he let a pass bounce off his chest with no defenders within 5 feet of him."

Sure, there's plenty of blame to go around, and a heck of a lot of it goes to him. When he was given the chance to win the game for us, he blew it.

[quote]
I am so sick of all the ****ing about him.
[/quote]

Then he should stop giving us reason to complain. He's used up all his Free Passes.

[quote]
He's the second best wideout we have right now, it doesnt matter how much you guys hate him, we need him. Let Clayton get hurt or cut like some of you want him to and we'll see how far we get without him. It wont be very far.
[/quote]


Are these facts, or just an opinion?

[Ed_Reed_Pick_Six]

I don't mean to add fuel to the fire, but I could see Kelley Washington as a second receiver. He's been very impressive and has reliable hands.

[baltiMORE RAVENS]

[quote name='MagicianCamille' date='04 October 2009 - 10:10 PM' timestamp='1254708611' post='249445']
I don't think anyone that posts on this message board could have caught it. Two defensive players barreling down on you, 4th down, the game on the line.

Please.
[/quote]

Not to mention 0% of the posters on this board could have gotten any separation from the db. I ask myself why people complain SO MUCH on here and then I read a post like that and I realize people ACTUALLY THINK THEY CAN DO BETTER. It blows my mind. We have like 100 people on here who think they can play better in an NFL game and another 100 who think they can coach in the NFL. Hilarious. I am sure Owners and GMs will be will be calling to offer you jobs soon wannabees.

[JoeCool#5]

Clayton will be fine. He will learn from this. The good thing is it wasnt the playoffs. He has been a model of consistency until this game. He will learn from the INT and the drop ball.

[flynismo]

[quote name='MagicianCamille' date='04 October 2009 - 10:10 PM' timestamp='1254708611' post='249445']
I don't think anyone that posts on this message board could have caught it. Two defensive players barreling down on you, 4th down, the game on the line.

Please.
[/quote]

Those "defensive players barrelling down on him" were nowhere near him when he dropped the pass. He was untouched, not like he got drilled the instant he made contact with the ball.

[Ed_Reed_Pick_Six]

Boy oh boy... I'm so glad Mason came back! You really notice how much we would have missed him were he not still here.

[flynismo]

[quote name='JoeCool#5' date='04 October 2009 - 10:22 PM' timestamp='1254709364' post='249470']
Clayton will be fine. He will learn from this. The good thing is it wasnt the playoffs. He has been a model of consistency until this game. He will learn from the INT and the drop ball.
[/quote]

Yeah, that's the problem, he has been waaay too consistent.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Ed_Reed_Pick_Six' date='04 October 2009 - 10:18 PM' timestamp='1254709135' post='249462']
I don't mean to add fuel to the fire, but I could see Kelley Washington as a second receiver. He's been very impressive and has reliable hands.
[/quote]

Why should Clayton become the slot receiver because of one drop? Washington dropped a ball today too. Should Demetrius Williams take his job because of that play?

[Ed_Reed_Pick_Six]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' date='05 October 2009 - 02:26 PM' timestamp='1254709606' post='249486']
Why should Clayton become the slot receiver because of one drop? Washington dropped a ball today too. Should Demetrius Williams take his job because of that play?
[/quote]
I didn't say at any point demote him. My post merely stated Washington has the talent to be a number two wideout.

[Ed_Reed_Pick_Six]

Irrespective of whether people here think they are better than Clayton as a wide receiver, which I doubt any realistically do, it was a fundamental skill that should [i]always[/i] be executed by a professional athlete.

That is why people make statements like "I could have caught that" - to illustrate the extent of the failing. Not to say "Coach, put me in. I'm the next Jerry Rice."

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Ed_Reed_Pick_Six' date='04 October 2009 - 10:29 PM' timestamp='1254709760' post='249492']
I didn't say at any point demote him. My post merely stated Washington has the talent to be a number two wideout.
[/quote]

He does have the talent to be a #2 receiver but he's been very effective working out of the slot so why should he even be considered as a #2?

[neepo13]

[quote name='funky141' date='04 October 2009 - 09:50 PM' timestamp='1254707432' post='249411']
Second? Clayton is a number 3 at best with Mason as your number 2, thus why you need a #1 WR. This will hold you back.
[/quote]

Go away.

[quote name='flynismo' date='04 October 2009 - 09:57 PM' timestamp='1254707870' post='249420']
I'd like to add one more category to the list of fans....the people who like clayton, but think he needs to be either benched or let loose after the season. I belong to that list of people.

I can only speak for me, but today was just the last straw for me. And, there have been many, many straws with this guy. At what point do you say "enough is enough?" How many more chances should he get? it's been 4 years going on 5, and we have yet to get any sort of return on the investment we made in him and the commitment we've shown to him.
So, as I was saying, it's not ONLY today's failure, it is his lack of production over a period of years.
[/quote]

What is with the down with Clayton bandwagon? I dont get it. This is the first drop in Clayton's career that I would consider a crucial drop. He's wildly inconsistant, I get it but he's also made his share of plays. He's never going to be the game breaking flashy wideout that you guys want, he's just not and he wasnt drafted for that. But that doesnt mean he's not serviceable. The way you guys talk about Clayton, you'd think he was a Troy Williamson type of bust. Get over it. He's going to be a Raven for atleast two more years, maybe longer.

[quote name='flynismo' date='04 October 2009 - 10:17 PM' timestamp='1254709026' post='249457']
All I got out of that was that "it's not fair to blame the loss on Clayton when he was three yards away from scoring the game winning TD and he let a pass bounce off his chest with no defenders within 5 feet of him."

Sure, there's plenty of blame to go around, and a heck of a lot of it goes to him. When he was given the chance to win the game for us, he blew it.



Then he should stop giving us reason to complain. He's used up all his Free Passes.




Are these facts, or just an opinion?
[/quote]
I think you need to go back and take a look at that play the defenders were very much all over him. He got hit coming off his route and they were right there when the ball was thrown.

It doesnt matter what Clayton does you guys are still going to **** about it. The guy is human, he's going to make mistakes. If he doesnt play the perfect game, he runs into critism from this message board its rediculous. And then when he turns around and he has a big game, and he has a had a few of them, you guys forget that he's supposed to be a bust.

You really think that if we lost Clayton, we'd be fine? Your delusional.

[Ed_Reed_Pick_Six]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' date='05 October 2009 - 02:39 PM' timestamp='1254710363' post='249511']
He does have the talent to be a #2 receiver but he's been very effective working out of the slot so why should he even be considered as a #2?
[/quote]
Well why not if he is playing well? No position should be safe if someone lower on the depth chart initially is outplaying them. Again, I didn't say demote him - just saying I wouldn't throw my toys if he was given a chance.

I think you're just angry at me coz I have the ultimate Ed Reed signature

[neepo13]

[quote name='baltiMORE RAVENS' date='04 October 2009 - 10:08 PM' timestamp='1254708533' post='249442']
Anyone heard anything about this? I got it off of cbssports

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/rapid-reports/team/BAL/all_tags/today

Ravens coach John Harbaugh was irate after the game - exploding at a Ravens public relations official because a local radio announcer held a microphone right next to him at a press conference. He also got right in Ravens GM Ozzie Newsome's face and yelled at him, too.

I wonder how the Oz reacted.
[/quote]
Oh boy. I wonder if that had anything to do with the fact that we traded Burgess to the Pats before we played them. In Harbaugh's presser right after that happened he didnt seem very happy about it, I am wondering how much of that move was on Ozzie and how much was on Harbaugh.

Because Burgess obviously gave the Pats info about us. I dont know how much that impacted the game but maybe Harbaugh thinks it impacted it alot.

[flynismo]

[quote name='neepo13' date='04 October 2009 - 10:42 PM' timestamp='1254710531' post='249516']


I think you need to go back and take a look at that play the defenders were very much all over him. He got hit coming off his route and they were right there when the ball was thrown.
[/quote]

He wasn't touched by a defender until after the ball already popped out of his hands.

[quote]
You really think that if we lost Clayton, we'd be fine? Your delusional.
[/quote]

Again, is this an opinion? What has he ever done to make you think otherwise? We'd be in a world of hurt without Flacco. Without Ngata. Without Reed. Clayton? It would be hard to get any less production from our #2 WR position if someone else took over for him.
I don't believe I'm the one who's delusional.

[neepo13]

[quote name='flynismo' date='04 October 2009 - 10:53 PM' timestamp='1254711185' post='249538']
He wasn't touched by a defender until after the ball already popped out of his hands.



Again, is this an opinion? What has he ever done to make you think otherwise? We'd be in a world of hurt without Flacco. Without Ngata. Without Reed. Clayton? It would be hard to get any less production from our #2 WR position if someone else took over for him.
I don't believe I'm the one who's delusional.
[/quote]

He single handly beat the Bengals a year ago. He made the game winning TD catch week 1. He made two clucth catchs in the playoff game vs Tenn to put us in position to score. You guys act like Clayton has never been able to produce. Look at his 06 season, he, Mason, and Heaps production was virtually the same. He's proved that he can be a solid player in this league, check out the numbers, his problem is consistancy.

No its not an opinion its a fact. Clayton is not as expendable as you want to make him seem. Who could we move up to number 2, if we didnt have Clayton? Kelley Washington? Yeah, right. D.Will? Well you guys hate him to. You want to bring Justin Harper or Eron Riley up? Who would be the other two guys in 3 wr sets, if Clayton was gone? I am not talking about Clayton as if he's the next coming of Steve Smith but he's got value for us. Without him, if you think our wr's are bad now, they'd be worse.

[Ed_Reed_Pick_Six]

I'm confident Mark will produce next week. Bad drop today though. That's all I'm gonna say now haha.

[flynismo]

[quote name='neepo13' date='04 October 2009 - 11:14 PM' timestamp='1254712451' post='249581']
He single handly beat the Bengals a year ago. He made the game winning TD catch week 1. He made two clucth catchs in the playoff game vs Tenn to put us in position to score.
[/quote]

Well, I guess you're right. That totally makes up for the 90% of the other games in which he has done absolutely nothing. Having one or two good games a year makes him a good player. I apologize for being so unreasonable towards him.

[quote]
No its not an opinion its a fact.
[/quote]

Okay, well I'd be honored if you'd present these facts to me, because the stuff below is all your opinion.

[quote]
Clayton is not as expendable as you want to make him seem. Who could we move up to number 2, if we didnt have Clayton? Kelley Washington? Yeah, right. D.Will? Well you guys hate him to. You want to bring Justin Harper or Eron Riley up? Who would be the other two guys in 3 wr sets, if Clayton was gone? I am not talking about Clayton as if he's the next coming of Steve Smith but he's got value for us. Without him, if you think our wr's are bad now, they'd be worse.
[/quote]

I'd like to see Washington get a crack at #2. Why not? He wasn't great today, but otherwise has played very well throughout preseason and the first three weeks in the limited action he got.

And I'd definitely be happy about D-Will getting a crack too. <insert witty injury waiting to happen remark here>

Those guys can't possibly be any less productive than Clayton has been, so why not give them a shot?

[neepo13]

[quote name='flynismo' date='04 October 2009 - 11:24 PM' timestamp='1254713048' post='249606']
Well, I guess you're right. That totally makes up for the 90% of the other games in which he has done absolutely nothing. Having one or two good games a year makes him a good player. I apologize for being so unreasonable towards him.



Okay, well I'd be honored if you'd present these facts to me, because the stuff below is all your opinion.
[/quote]
LOL. Ok Clayton absolutly sucks. He's done nothing his entire career but ride the bench and suck.

Well, answer the question. If Clayton is so expandable tell me who could replace him? And please back it up with fact and not b.s. The floor is yours, my friend.

[Ed_Reed_Pick_Six]

We clearly need all-pro receiver Dwayne Jarrett.