Merged: Mark Clayton Threads

[neepo13]

[quote name='flynismo' date='05 October 2009 - 07:58 PM' timestamp='1254787139' post='250297']
ah, well played.
Wait, you made it through the entire movie? You have a lot more patience than I do then...never could get into Jim Carey for whatever reason.

Now, back to the Clayton lynching...
what do you think about Washington taking over #2 duties, and Clayton returning kicks? Just my opinion, I have nothing to base it on other than that, but I think Clayton could probably tear it up as a kick returner. Almost certainly would be better than Carr, if nothing else.
[/quote]


[quote name='AwakenTheDemon' date='05 October 2009 - 08:02 PM' timestamp='1254787366' post='250299']
I have no problem with Washington becoming number 2. He's playing very well, better then I think anyone predicted. I would let Clayton go to #3 instead of just returning kicks. Gives Clayton chances to make the catches, without the pressure of being a number two receiver. I'd like to see what Webb can do returning kicks more, he did well in the preseason, aside from that fumble.
[/quote]

You guys are something special. Do you realize that Clayton missed ALL of training camp and still none of the other guys, Washington included, were able to unseat him as the #2 reciever?

Clayton isnt Suggs here, where he could miss a lot of time and still hold on to his job even if another guy steps up and plays well. But yet Clayton was still the number 2 guy opening day... I wonder why that is? Prehaps its because nobody behind him is better... Get off Washingtons jock strap, if he was the better player, Clayton wouldnt have gained his number 2 spot back.

[AwakenTheDemon]

[quote name='neepo13' date='05 October 2009 - 07:52 PM' timestamp='1254790320' post='250339']
You guys are something special. Do you realize that Clayton missed ALL of training camp and still none of the other guys, Washington included, were able to unseat him as the #2 reciever?

Clayton isnt Suggs here, where he could miss a lot of time and still hold on to his job even if another guy steps up and plays well. But yet Clayton was still the number 2 guy opening day... I wonder why that is? Prehaps its because nobody behind him is better... Get off Washingtons jock strap, if he was the better player, Clayton wouldnt have gained his number 2 spot back.
[/quote]

Point of the matter is, Washington is playing extremely well thus far. Whether Clayton was part of training camp or not, Washington is playing [u]better[/u].

Here's a question. Let's go back to training camp time. Kelley Washington was entering his first year as a Raven. He has done essentially nothing great with his career so far. Does that honestly give him immediate considering for a starting role? No. Did you expect Kelley Washington to come in and perform how he has so far? No. Did anyone? Probably not. So there was no reason to move Washington to #2 and Clayton to #3 after Training Camp. Clayton was #2 by default. And before you tell me that Clayton has earned his spot as #2, making it out to sound like I don't think he has, I believe he is just fine at #2, but Washington is playing better and gives us a better chance right now then Clayton. The slot may help Clayton out immensely.

If Clayton never leaves the #2 spot, great. I'm glad for him, and not pissed at all. I have absolutely, [b]no[/b] problem with Clayton (he justs needs to work on not letting pressure get to him, and I don't mean defensive backs). If Washington moves to #2, good for him. He's earned it. Either way is fine. So stop jumping on everyone.

[flynismo]

[quote name='neepo13' date='05 October 2009 - 08:52 PM' timestamp='1254790320' post='250339']
You guys are something special. Do you realize that Clayton missed ALL of training camp and still none of the other guys, Washington included, were able to unseat him as the #2 reciever?

Clayton isnt Suggs here, where he could miss a lot of time and still hold on to his job even if another guy steps up and plays well. But yet Clayton was still the number 2 guy opening day... I wonder why that is? Prehaps its because nobody behind him is better... Get off Washingtons jock strap, if he was the better player, Clayton wouldnt have gained his number 2 spot back.
[/quote]


Is "get off Washington's jockstrap" your final answer? Not very impressive.
On top of what the was mentioned about why its expected that Clayton is still #2 (Is Washington supposed to take the job from him the moment he walked in the door, because basically that's what you're saying) I'd love to hear your thoughts on why guys on the bench is outplaying your boy Clayton. Maybe it is you who needs to detach herself from Clayton's jockstrap?

[neepo13]

[quote name='AwakenTheDemon' date='05 October 2009 - 09:04 PM' timestamp='1254791095' post='250346']
Point of the matter is, Washington is playing extremely well thus far. Whether Clayton was part of training camp or not, Washington is playing [u]better[/u].

Here's a question. Let's go back to training camp time. Kelley Washington was entering his first year as a Raven. He has done essentially nothing great with his career so far. Does that honestly give him immediate considering for a starting role? No. Did you expect Kelley Washington to come in and perform how he has so far? No. Did anyone? Probably not. So there was no reason to move Washington to #2 and Clayton to #3 after Training Camp. Clayton was #2 by default. And before you tell me that Clayton has earned his spot as #2, making it out to sound like I don't think he has, I believe he is just fine at #2, but Washington is playing better and gives us a better chance right now then Clayton. The slot may help Clayton out immensely.
If Clayton never leaves the #2 spot, great. I'm glad for him, and not pissed at all. I have absolutely, [b]no[/b] problem with Clayton (he justs needs to work on not letting pressure get to him, and I don't mean defensive backs). If Washington moves to #2, good for him. He's earned it. Either way is fine. So stop jumping on everyone.
[/quote]

I think you missed the point. This is more about the guys behind Clayton than it is about Clayton. Clayton didnt play during training camp or the preseason. Which means somebody was taking those snaps.

We've all acknowledged that Clayton is extremally inconsistant. Which is the reason why he wouldnt be guaranteed a starting job.

Make whatever excuse you want for every guy behind Clayton but the fact is they all had ample opportunity to take his job and none of them were able to do it. There is a reason for that and its not because they didnt know the playbook. Kelley Washington if I remember correctly was signed a good two weeks, maybe even more than that- I am fairly sure he was at some OTA's-, before training camp started. He had plenty of time to get enough of the playbook down to give himself a chance to seriously compete for a starting job. He or no other wr was able to win it despite the fact that Clayton didnt play at all. Its not because Clayton earned his # 2 spot, its not because he's so good, its because the guys behind him didnt impress because they are not very good. Its that simple. If it was just a matter of getting the playbook down, Justin Harper and Yamon Figurs (I miss Yamon) would have made the team at wr but they didnt because they were not better than the guys ahead of them.

Washington is playing better as a #3 wr, than Clayton is as the #2 guy. That doesnt mean that Washington could move up the depth chart and play better or even the same that he's played as the #3 guy as the #2 guy. I just think that if the coaching staff felt that Washington could do a better job as the #2 guy, he'd have already moved up. And if Clayton sucked as much as some people in this thread thinks he does, the coaching staff would have done something about that as well.

[neepo13]

[quote name='flynismo' date='05 October 2009 - 09:23 PM' timestamp='1254792232' post='250361']
Is "get off Washington's jockstrap" your final answer? Not very impressive.
On top of what the was mentioned about why its expected that Clayton is still #2 (Is Washington supposed to take the job from him the moment he walked in the door, because basically that's what you're saying) I'd love to hear your thoughts on why guys on the bench is outplaying your boy Clayton. Maybe it is you who needs to detach herself from Clayton's jockstrap?
[/quote]

Keep reading buddy.

[RavingRaven]

I don't care if you are a training camp superstar or an absentee, if you can't catch the ball on Sunday, you can't play in this league.

I remember our team giving another player a few too many chances and it killed our team. His name was Kyle Boller.

Bye the way, Brandon Marshall is having a good season.......

[ravens world]

Wow people are still making excuses for clayton thats pathetic, well hopefully they bench clayton put kelly at number 2 and then after the year is over clayton leaves and never comes back.

[BloodRaven]

It's always something.

[shaikh015]

People have all their theory's about why or how Clayton mister magnetic hands dropped the almost perfectly thrown pass. My theory is that Ravens had to have been looking out for Karma seeing that New England did give up their draft pick to us for nearly nothing. We technically were able to select an offensive linemen in the draft because of it. This seeing that we lost our starting left tackle with probably has nothing to do with my theory but since we lost to New England their fans don't feel so bad about giving up that draft pick to us..

[BloodRaven]

Your theory is karma?

Karma is to blame for dropping that pass?

XD

[rlh445]

[quote name='Mahatma_Sloth' date='05 October 2009 - 08:05 PM' timestamp='1254787533' post='250302']
your all over the place bro it probably would be his performance acording to you cuz you totaly wrote off his bigest game.

clayton
week 1: 1 rush for 9 yards, targeted 9 times cought 5(55%) for 77 yards(15.4avg) and a touch

week 2: targeted 4 times 1 reception for 20, 1 pass attempt completed for no gain

week 3: 2 rush for 15 yards, targeted 6 times cought 3 for 35 yards(11.7avg)

week 4: targeted 10 time 5 cought for 45 yards(9avg)

not to mention great downfield blocking *except for that one block in the back*

and really i dont care if hes a "monster" or not so long as he plays his role on this team to the best of his ability. thats what people on a team do, that and forgive a shortcoming and help whomever use that to get better. could you imagin if the locker room was like this forum the team would devour itself
[/quote]

Hmm..how did I miss that Week 1 performance? Touche! Forgiving a short-coming is all well and good, and if I were one of Clayton's teammates then we wouldn't be having this discussion because I'd be too busy soaking in my hot tub in my mansion watching chicks dance for me on a pole. But we're not in a locker room, we're on the Ravens message boards having a discussion, so what does that have to do with Clayton's obvious inconsistency? For me, this isn't about his drop in the Pats game, but the fact that this drop could have almost been predetermined because of his past 4 years of the same kind of thing. Shine when we're facing a lesser team, lackluster when we really need him to make that catch.

What does it matter that he caught two or three passes on that ensuing drive if he doesn't make the critical catch we need in the end to seal the deal? If you still don't understand where I'm coming from, then I am just not sure what else to say.

[Bosanac]

I do agree clayton's drop was big, but his play did provide some spark to his consistency. Yeah, he was invisible all game, but that last drive he caught 3 catches, which i think 2 were for first downs, so he shows he can catch when given a chance, just, you know, not under pressure.(apparently)

[Moiles]

If you guys are right and we dont resign clayton, AND mason retires. Its going to be pretttty interesting to see wat recievers we have next year! But hopefully he will bounce back

[FlaccoFan83]

I think he just made it back to town tonight after hitchhiking back from Foxboro.

[BMOREHAWAII]

No matter what people say, you cant doubt the fact the losing Rex Ryan had a negative impact on our defense. Sure we can stop the run like no other but thats because of our D-Line and Ray Ray guiding the LB's. But what the heck happened to our pass D? We added depth to out CB position with Foxworth, Webb etc. But the play calling may have a huge impact on results. And at time like these, you would think they would give more rookies a shot at center stage who proved themselves in pre-season. Even though inconsistent Justin Harper....ERON RILEY?

[reed20]

[quote name='MagicianCamille' date='04 October 2009 - 03:41 PM' timestamp='1254688896' post='248740']
Yeah, don't blame the defense or anything. Blame a guy for not making a game-winning catch in the endzone with two guys on him, or for dropping a zipped fourth down pass with...two guys on him.
[/quote]

two guys on him? clayton dropped the pass before those two guys even touched him! I do put blame on the defense but it IS Brady and Moss we're dealing with you know.

[Mahatma_Sloth]

[quote name='rlh445' date='06 October 2009 - 12:34 AM' timestamp='1254810842' post='250497']
Hmm..how did I miss that Week 1 performance? Touche! Forgiving a short-coming is all well and good, and [b]if I were one of Clayton's teammates then we wouldn't be having this discussion because I'd be too busy soaking in my hot tub in my mansion watching chicks dance for me on a pole[/b]. But we're not in a locker room,[b] we're on the Ravens message boards having a discussion, so what does that have to do with Clayton's obvious inconsistency?[/b] For me, this isn't about his drop in the Pats game, but [b]the fact that this drop could have almost been predetermined because of his past 4 years of the same kind of thing[/b]. Shine when we're facing a lesser team, lackluster when we really need him to make that catch.

What does it matter that he caught two or three passes on that ensuing drive if he doesn't make the critical catch we need in the end to seal the deal? If you still don't understand where I'm coming from, then I am just not sure what else to say.
[/quote]
well thats why your a fanboy on a board and not playin ball. your selfish. im sure Clayton and his O teammates didnt get to their mansions(dosnt flacco live in a townhome with his bro, who on the O has a mansion anyway? maybe heap and mason but their family guys. when you said mansion did you mean strip club?) before going over the game a couple times talking(not accusing). i think you missed my point about the whole lockerroom thing but thats okay its not for everybody. many ppl out there would point fingers at a teammate friends or family instead of helping overcome a shortcoming.
how could you predetermin this nostradomos? tell me judging from your calculations what is he gonna do aginst the bengals. no catches like in week 1 right? I am down to admit im wrong about clayton but im gonna wait till the end of the year when all the numbers are in.

[Mahatma_Sloth]

[quote name='FlaccoFan83' date='06 October 2009 - 02:51 AM' timestamp='1254819072' post='250537']
I think he just made it back to town tonight after hitchhiking back from Foxboro.
[/quote]
luckily you have been in your lazyboy this whole time

armchair analist

[Guest FLACCO5]

Give me a break, Yeah, i know that clayton probably feels terrible after that drop, But that was the last straw, he is way too inconsistent, should have caught the touchdown ball on first down, and then he drops one that was obviously thrown in the wrong place, THE HANDS!!!!!!!!!!!!! Get a grip clayton, because most likely, you will not be here next year!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Mahatma_Sloth]

[quote name='rlh445' date='05 October 2009 - 04:17 PM' timestamp='1254781037' post='250247']
.....you do if you're the number two receiver on your team..boy oh boy. Maybe Fly has a point about picking and choosing what posts to respond to.
[/quote]
well he rushed and threw one and if you really pay attention you can see him throw some magnificent blocks

you can have your guy that just catches balls.... ill take the more complete football player. its just better for the team in the longrun.

[Mahatma_Sloth]

[quote name='neepo13' date='05 October 2009 - 06:45 PM' timestamp='1254789904' post='250337']
Really how many drops did Clayton have last season? Since this is common.
[/quote]
he caught 50% targeted 82 times 41 catches

[neepo13]

[quote name='RavingRaven' date='05 October 2009 - 11:06 PM' timestamp='1254798360' post='250442']
I don't care if you are a training camp superstar or an absentee, if you can't catch the ball on Sunday, you can't play in this league.

I remember our team giving another player a few too many chances and it killed our team. His name was Kyle Boller.

Bye the way, Brandon Marshall is having a good season.......
[/quote]


[quote name='ravens world' date='05 October 2009 - 11:41 PM' timestamp='1254800477' post='250454']
Wow people are still making excuses for clayton thats pathetic, well hopefully they bench clayton put kelly at number 2 and then after the year is over clayton leaves and never comes back.
[/quote]


[quote name='shaikh015' date='06 October 2009 - 01:38 AM' timestamp='1254807485' post='250483']
People have all their theory's about why or how Clayton mister magnetic hands dropped the almost perfectly thrown pass. My theory is that Ravens had to have been looking out for Karma seeing that New England did give up their draft pick to us for nearly nothing. We technically were able to select an offensive linemen in the draft because of it. This seeing that we lost our starting left tackle with probably has nothing to do with my theory but since we lost to New England their fans don't feel so bad about giving up that draft pick to us..
[/quote]


[quote name='rlh445' date='06 October 2009 - 02:34 AM' timestamp='1254810842' post='250497']
Hmm..how did I miss that Week 1 performance? Touche! Forgiving a short-coming is all well and good, and if I were one of Clayton's teammates then we wouldn't be having this discussion because I'd be too busy soaking in my hot tub in my mansion watching chicks dance for me on a pole. But we're not in a locker room, we're on the Ravens message boards having a discussion, so what does that have to do with Clayton's obvious inconsistency? For me, this isn't about his drop in the Pats game, but the fact that this drop could have almost been predetermined because of his past 4 years of the same kind of thing. Shine when we're facing a lesser team, lackluster when we really need him to make that catch.

What does it matter that he caught two or three passes on that ensuing drive if he doesn't make the critical catch we need in the end to seal the deal? If you still don't understand where I'm coming from, then I am just not sure what else to say.
[/quote]


[quote name='Moiles' date='06 October 2009 - 03:07 AM' timestamp='1254812862' post='250515']
If you guys are right and we dont resign clayton, AND mason retires. Its going to be pretttty interesting to see wat recievers we have next year! But hopefully he will bounce back
[/quote]

Go ahead and try to run Clayton out of town because of one dropped pass. Appaerently, you guys dont remember our spectacular trio of Randy Hymes, Clarence Moore, and Kevin Johnson the year before Clayton and Mason came to town. You cant bank on a rookie to step in and play well right away. The team isnt going to trade for some big name wideout because of the price. And because of the rules under the uncapped year, no young stud wideouts will be FA in the offseason. Boy, I cant wait to witness all the crying you crybabies do when Clayton and Dwill are still on this team next year.

[neepo13]

[quote name='Mahatma_Sloth' date='06 October 2009 - 11:34 AM' timestamp='1254843264' post='250620']
he caught 50% targeted 82 times 41 catches
[/quote]
Yeah but how many of those did he actually drop?

[Mahatma_Sloth]

[quote name='neepo13' date='06 October 2009 - 09:38 AM' timestamp='1254843494' post='250622']
Yeah but how many of those did he actually drop?
[/quote]
for sure i wish they tallied uncatchable balls

[flynismo]

[quote name='reed20' date='06 October 2009 - 06:49 AM' timestamp='1254826170' post='250546']
two guys on him? clayton dropped the pass before those two guys even touched him! I do put blame on the defense but it IS Brady and Moss we're dealing with you know.
[/quote]


this is why I give up talking to these people. all I hear is excuse after excuse after excuse, and if there's no more excuses to be made they just make something up and try to pass it off as fact.

they should act more like their hero Clayton and just stop with the excuses.

[Marc2k6]

It is hard enough to play again vs the 11 on either side of the ball vs N.E. but to play N.E. and the zebras is not fair! Most of all we need to make those plays that we missed to win. You can point your fingers in all kinds of directions but football is a team sport.

[BloodRaven]

[quote name='Mahatma_Sloth' date='06 October 2009 - 11:03 AM' timestamp='1254844996' post='250634']
for sure i wish they tallied uncatchable balls
[/quote]

then they would have to tally uncatchable balls that were caught. Which is great because it would show the difference between elite WRs and WRs.

[ravensfan160]

For all of you who want to run Clayton out of town you might want to rethink. I do believe that all 4 of the receivers on our roster right now are in the final year of their contracts. Thats right...all 4. Mason might retire, Williams appears to already have 1 foot out the door, Washington has been great and might cash in somewhere else after his 1 year deal expires. That only leaves Clayton.

So stop beating up on a guy who was trying to make a play to help his team and got a little ahead of himself. It wasn't just his mistake that cost us the game it just happened to be the last one. If the Chris Carr fumble or the Flacco interception or the personal fouls happened at the end of the game you all would be saying similar things about those players.

You never want to lose a game but I'm ok with losing this one. First, it gets the national media, and those high expectations, off our backs. Second, it keeps our players humble because this game coming up against Cincinnati is even more important. If we managed to win in New England I would be terrified of an upset by the Bengals. Now our guys will be focused and ready to take back control of the divison.

This loss won't cost us a playoff spot. I'm convinced we will win our division. It may cost us home field in the playoffs if we finish tied with New England. But if that happens, we'll just have to go back to Foxborro and show Bellichick who's boss.

[Ed_Reed20]

The people who want run Clayton out of town or bench him are the worst Ravens fans in my opinion.

[AwakenTheDemon]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' date='06 October 2009 - 01:57 PM' timestamp='1254855464' post='250707']
The people who want run Clayton out of town or bench him are the worst Ravens fans in my opinion.
[/quote]

There's no need to "attack" other Raven fans because their opinions differ from your's. Granted, I think Clayton Haters overlook all the good things he has done, and latches onto one drop. When that drop is forgotten, they'll latch onto another mistake. But they're entitled to their opinions just as much as those who support and want to keep Clayton on the team. And that does not make them any worse fans.

Let's face it, we'll all Ravens fans, why should we be slinging mud over one player?