Merged: Mark Clayton Threads

[baltiMORE RAVENS]

[quote name='WinnipegRaven' date='05 October 2009 - 01:44 PM' timestamp='1254764674' post='250069']
Suggest they coat his chest with super glue from here on out?
[/quote]

If that happens, I'll be the first to apologize for saying that our suggestions don't matter.

[baltiMORE RAVENS]

[quote name='Mahatma_Sloth' date='05 October 2009 - 01:47 PM' timestamp='1254764838' post='250077']
but i dont think i can do a better job than so and so. thats why i leave the evaluation and decisions to the pros. this is why i dont frequent this forum so much anymore the ppl on it get all upset and start making no sense. its life; balls will be droped, and fumbled, and intercepted, teams will march down the field and score 2 rushing TDs on us, bad calls will be made, we will not run enough to controll the clock, one day we will allow a 100 yd rusher, you will point fingers at you team, and throw players under the bus for mistakes they made. how about we wait on these premature evaluations(im speaking of this season fly). im sure we will have a clayton thread for every loss though
[/quote]

I love your perspective...must be a denver thing.

[Mahatma_Sloth]

[quote name='baltiMORE RAVENS' date='05 October 2009 - 11:51 AM' timestamp='1254765081' post='250082']
I love your perspective...must be a denver thing.
[/quote]
golden aspen groves, big skys and beautiful sunsets into the rockies tends to make you soft

denver where the beer flows like wine

[BloodRaven]

Maybe it's all the thin air.

[WinnipegRaven]

[quote name='Mahatma_Sloth' date='05 October 2009 - 11:56 AM' timestamp='1254765370' post='250087']


denver where the beer flows like wine
[/quote]
"A place where the beer flows like wine. And beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano."?

[flynismo]

[quote name='BloodRaven' date='05 October 2009 - 01:58 PM' timestamp='1254765501' post='250089']
Maybe it's all the thin air.
[/quote]

nah, it must be the beer that flows like wine.
(sorry mahatma, but you MUST have known you were setting yourself up for that)

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='baltiMORE RAVENS' date='05 October 2009 - 01:37 PM' timestamp='1254764257' post='250064']
What solutions from Clayton supporters do you want? What on earth can WE do about the Clayton drop? How many of your "solutions" for the ravens worked out? I know we are fans, but I think some of us need to understand what our limitations are as fans. Calm down and think about it man.
[/quote]

This is what I'm saying. He dropped a pass and is inconsistent but he's still the 2nd best receiver on the team.

[AwakenTheDemon]

Arguing over Clayton is pointless. There are some people who are unforgiving of Clayton, like I've stated before. Those passes that were overthrown or underthrown, are still held against him by some people. I feel bad for the guy, he is going to be the scapegoat sometimes, when he isn't the problem.

I don't remember who said it (I do not feel like going back and finding it), but they're right when they say "He isn't the reason we lost, but the reason why we didn't win". There were many things that went wrong with the game yesterday. If Flacco hadn't thrown that interception, hypothetically, we would have been up at half, and got the win by one (assuming everything else stayed the same). People are taking a compound problem in New England and placing it on one man, who made that drive, just couldn't close the drive.

Fly, you brought up Clayton's numbers. Have you ever thought it could have been because of the nature of the Ravens passing offense? We've never really had an effective passing offense. Quarterbacks not really having much over 1,000 yards, and Mason having 1,000 of those yards?
Here's some numbers:
In 2006 (with a healthy McNair), there were 3,535 passing yards (if you add in Boller's yardage as well). Now, both Mason and Clayton played in all 16 games. Mason had, 68 receptions, 750 Yards and 2 touchdowns. Clayton had 67 receptions, 939 yards and 5 touchdowns.

The next two years Mason's yards go back to Mason's standards (1,087, 1,037), thanks to his receptions going back up (103, 80). What happens? Clayton gets less receptions (48, 41), therefore less yards (531, 695). Mason is the Raven's #1, their go-to guy. So of course they're going to get it to him as much as possible. He's just more consistent and, overall, better then Clayton. Another major thing Mason has over Clayton? He's clutch.

Clayton might never be an elite wide out, but he does a good job. Just don't put a game on his shoulders, if you can avoid it. I'm not saying Clayton is an amazing wide receiver, I'm just saying he doesn't always deserve the trash people throw his way.

[flynismo]

[quote name='baltiMORE RAVENS' date='05 October 2009 - 01:37 PM' timestamp='1254764257' post='250064']
What solutions from Clayton supporters do you want? What on earth can WE do about the Clayton drop? How many of your "solutions" for the ravens worked out? I know we are fans, but I think some of us need to understand what our limitations are as fans. Calm down and think about it man.
[/quote]

wow, you make it sound like I'm having conversations with Oz or something. My "solutions" are hopefully obviously rhetorical.
I proposed an idea for us to consider a couple pages ago (start wshington instead of clayton, have clayton return kicks and give webb a shot at dimebak).
I have no idea if t would work out, but it certainly couldn't hurt considering the poor production clayton and carr gives us.

[codizzle]

[quote name='flynismo' date='05 October 2009 - 01:35 PM' timestamp='1254767714' post='250114']
wow, you make it sound like I'm having conversations with Oz or something. My "solutions" are hopefully obviously rhetorical.
I proposed an idea for us to consider a couple pages ago (start wshington instead of clayton, have clayton return kicks and give webb a shot at dimebak).
I have no idea if t would work out, but it certainly couldn't hurt considering the poor production clayton and carr gives us.
[/quote]
totally agreee

[flynismo]

[quote name='AwakenTheDemon' date='05 October 2009 - 02:27 PM' timestamp='1254767240' post='250107']
Arguing over Clayton is pointless. There are some people who are unforgiving of Clayton, like I've stated before. Those passes that were overthrown or underthrown, are still held against him by some people. I feel bad for the guy, he is going to be the scapegoat sometimes, when he isn't the problem. I don't remember who said it (I do not feel like going back and finding it), but they're right when they say "He isn't the reason we lost, but the reason why we didn't win". There were many things that went wrong with the game yesterday. If Flacco hadn't thrown that interception, hypothetically, we would have been up at half, and got the win by one (assuming everything else stayed the same). People are taking a compound problem in New England and placing it on one man, who made that drive, just couldn't close the drive. Fly, you brought up Clayton's numbers. Have you ever thought it could have been because of the nature of the Ravens passing offense? We've never really had an effective passing offense. Quarterbacks not really having much over 1,000 yards, and Mason having 1,000 of those yards?
Here's some numbers:
In 2006 (with a healthy McNair), there were 3,535 passing yards (if you add in Boller's yardage as well). Now, both Mason and Clayton played in all 16 games. Mason had, 68 receptions, 750 Yards and 2 touchdowns. Clayton had 67 receptions, 939 yards and 5 touchdowns.

The next two years Mason's yards go back to Mason's standards (1,087, 1,037), thanks to his receptions going back up (103, 80). What happens? Clayton gets less receptions (48, 41), therefore less yards (531, 695). Mason is the Raven's #1, their go-to guy. So of course they're going to get it to him as much as possible. He's just more consistent and, overall, better then Clayton. Another major thing Mason has over Clayton? He's clutch.

Clayton might never be an elite wide out, but he do

[ravens rule]

[b]LAY OF CLAYTON [/b]he caught a lot few balls in that final drive so he dropped an easy ball that might encourage him to play better against the bengles next week i hope

HE KEPT THE FINAL DRIVE ALIVE WITH HIS CATCHES

[flynismo]

[quote name='ravens rule' date='05 October 2009 - 03:01 PM' timestamp='1254769299' post='250141']
LAY OF CLAYTON he caught a lot few balls in that final drive so he dropped an easy ball that might encourage him to play better against the bengles next week i hope

HE KEPT THE FINAL DRIVE ALIVE WITH HIS CATCHES
[/quote]

we've been waiting for him to play better for over four years now. Dont hold your breath.

[rlh445]

[quote name='Mahatma_Sloth' date='05 October 2009 - 01:08 PM' timestamp='1254762522' post='250032']
haha your so funny. [b]you dont just catch balls to contribute to the outcome of a game.[/b]
[/quote]

.....you do if you're the number two receiver on your team..boy oh boy. Maybe Fly has a point about picking and choosing what posts to respond to.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='flynismo' date='05 October 2009 - 03:12 PM' timestamp='1254769972' post='250148']
we've been waiting for him to play better for over four years now. Dont hold your breath.
[/quote]

Late in his rookie and entire 2006 season prove Clayton can make just as many plays as anyone on the Ravens team if given the opportunity. Flacco has looked Clayton's way a lot this year and save for two legitimate drops, he's been a good player.

[hammer]

Although I have moved past Clayton's drop, it is actually clear that Kelly Washington has EARNED his promotion to #2, and Demiteous should get another look too. Whatever happened to D. Williams anyway? I thought this kid was supposed to be the up and comer?

[Mahatma_Sloth]

[quote name='flynismo' date='05 October 2009 - 12:05 PM' timestamp='1254765915' post='250095']
nah, it must be the beer that flows like wine.
(sorry mahatma, but you MUST have known you were setting yourself up for that)
[/quote]
one is usually setting ones self up when quoting Dumb and Dumber

*psst its really in the local medicine* nudge nudge wink wink say no more

[flynismo]

[quote name='Mahatma_Sloth' date='05 October 2009 - 07:34 PM' timestamp='1254785640' post='250283']
one is usually setting ones self up when quoting Dumb and Dumber

*psst its really in the local medicine* nudge nudge wink wink say no more
[/quote]

ah, well played.
Wait, you made it through the entire movie? You have a lot more patience than I do then...never could get into Jim Carey for whatever reason.

Now, back to the Clayton lynching...
what do you think about Washington taking over #2 duties, and Clayton returning kicks? Just my opinion, I have nothing to base it on other than that, but I think Clayton could probably tear it up as a kick returner. Almost certainly would be better than Carr, if nothing else.

[AwakenTheDemon]

I have no problem with Washington becoming number 2. He's playing very well, better then I think anyone predicted. I would let Clayton go to #3 instead of just returning kicks. Gives Clayton chances to make the catches, without the pressure of being a number two receiver. I'd like to see what Webb can do returning kicks more, he did well in the preseason, aside from that fumble.

[Mahatma_Sloth]

[quote name='rlh445' date='05 October 2009 - 02:22 AM' timestamp='1254730930' post='249788']
Really? Wow, I say. Well let me show you how much of the '3 wins' Clayton is a part of. In Week 2 (he didn't have ONE catch in Week 1) he caught one reception for 20 yards. Whoopty doo. In Week 3 he caught 3 receptions for 35 yards. So in Week 2 he caught two extra passes that amounted for only 15 extra yards then the one catch he had in Week 1. Oh, he's a monster. In week 4 he had 5 catches for 45 yards. Wow, he had quadruple the catches he did in Week 2 and yet still only had 25 extra yards then what he had in Week 2? Yea, that mob mentality is all to blame. It couldn't be Clayton's performance, could it?
[/quote]

your all over the place bro it probably would be his performance acording to you cuz you totaly wrote off his bigest game.

clayton
week 1: 1 rush for 9 yards, targeted 9 times cought 5(55%) for 77 yards(15.4avg) and a touch

week 2: targeted 4 times 1 reception for 20, 1 pass attempt completed for no gain

week 3: 2 rush for 15 yards, targeted 6 times cought 3 for 35 yards(11.7avg)

week 4: targeted 10 time 5 cought for 45 yards(9avg)

not to mention great downfield blocking *except for that one block in the back*

and really i dont care if hes a "monster" or not so long as he plays his role on this team to the best of his ability. thats what people on a team do, that and forgive a shortcoming and help whomever use that to get better. could you imagin if the locker room was like this forum the team would devour itself

[flynismo]

[quote name='AwakenTheDemon' date='05 October 2009 - 08:02 PM' timestamp='1254787366' post='250299']
I have no problem with Washington becoming number 2. He's playing very well, better then I think anyone predicted. I would let Clayton go to #3 instead of just returning kicks. Gives Clayton chances to make the catches, without the pressure of being a number two receiver. I'd like to see what Webb can do returning kicks more, he did well in the preseason, aside from that fumble.
[/quote]

yep, meant to say that Clayton would be our number 3, let him and Demetrius fight it out for that spot.

also I replied to your post earlier, but I'm posting from my phone today and for some reason it never went through.

one of my responses to your post is that Clayton has not only struggled over the years in a system that Mason and Heap have succeeded in, he is getting shut down by team's #2 CB's! It.s not like he's being doubled up on by the elite CBs and safeties, the #2 are locking him down (unless your name is Leon Hall, but is burning Hall really something to be proud of?)
So maybe the slot would help him out.

[Mahatma_Sloth]

[quote name='flynismo' date='05 October 2009 - 05:58 PM' timestamp='1254787139' post='250297']
ah, well played.
Wait, you made it through the entire movie? You have a lot more patience than I do then...never could get into Jim Carey for whatever reason.

Now, back to the Clayton lynching...
what do you think about Washington taking over #2 duties, and Clayton returning kicks? Just my opinion, I have nothing to base it on other than that, but I think Clayton could probably tear it up as a kick returner. Almost certainly would be better than Carr, if nothing else.
[/quote]
not adverse to him returning kicks(kinda the same as a double reverse) or webb for that matter. the #2 and slot should be situational i think you just gotta go with who ever is hot that day or take advantage of mismatches i dont think we should have anyone set at any rank its like the redcoats and revolutionaries you cant be too rigid like the british were you gotta be able to move around and be versitile throw them off. thats why i like cam he dose this more often than not

[Steelerkillers]

What better way is there to throw salt on our wounds than Keyshawn Johnson who said our receivers are Bums! Tonight on Monday Night Countdown, they let Keyshawn start the segment of "Come On Man" and guess who he says "Come On Man" to? Yup, you guessed it, The Raven Receiver named Mark Clayton. I just laughed becuz he feels validated about his criticism now

[PuRock]

ESPN NFL countdown just did their "C'Mon Man" Segment.

Keshawn "C'mon Man" Clayton for dropping the ball
Ditka "C'mon Man" Brady and the Refs for the Suggs Penalty. They showed Brady pleading then clenching his fist.

Funny stuff.

[Steelerkillers]

[quote name='PuRock' date='05 October 2009 - 08:16 PM' timestamp='1254788184' post='250313']
ESPN NFL countdown just did their "C'Mon Man" Segment.

Keshawn "C'mon Man" Clayton for dropping the ball
Ditka "C'mon Man" Brady and the Refs for the Suggs Penalty. They showed Brady pleading then clenching his fist.

Funny stuff.
[/quote]
We posted ours at the same time! lol

[Steelerkillers]

I can tell Keyshawn was lickin his chops, waiting for tonights segment so he can tee off on us

[PuRock]

[quote name='Steelerkillers' date='05 October 2009 - 08:17 PM' timestamp='1254788268' post='250314']
We posted ours at the same time! lol
[/quote]

Great minds think alike?

[AwakenTheDemon]

[quote name='PuRock' date='05 October 2009 - 07:16 PM' timestamp='1254788184' post='250313']
ESPN NFL countdown just did their "C'Mon Man" Segment.

Keshawn "C'mon Man" Clayton for dropping the ball
Ditka "C'mon Man" Brady and the Refs for the Suggs Penalty. They showed Brady pleading then clenching his fist.

Funny stuff.
[/quote]

I'm glad Ditka is around, personally. He gives the Ravens the respect we deserve to offset Johnson and Carter's venom. And I don't know about you, but I respect Ditka's point of view more then KJ and CC (and I don't just mean because he supports the Ravens while they hate on the Ravens).

And Brady's been watching Punters act to get a "Roughing the Kicker" flag, so he must have begun to wonder "Man, I'm much more handsome and can act much better then them, so I bet I can act to get a Roughing the Passer penalty. Why? Because I'm Tom Brady!"

I think the slot would help Clayton out, as well. Let the defensive backs get concerned with Mason and Washington, and see what Clayton can do. I believe he'd be more effective than Williams, to be honest.

[Steelerkillers]

[quote name='AwakenTheDemon' date='05 October 2009 - 08:25 PM' timestamp='1254788720' post='250325']
I'm glad Ditka is around, personally. He gives the Ravens the respect we deserve to offset Johnson and Carter's venom. And I don't know about you, but I respect Ditka's point of view more then KJ and CC (and I don't just mean because he supports the Ravens while they hate on the Ravens).

And Brady's been watching Punters act to get a "Roughing the Kicker" flag, so he must have begun to wonder "Man, I'm much more handsome and can act much better then them, so I bet I can act to get a Roughing the Passer penalty. Why? Because I'm Tom Brady!"

I think the slot would help Clayton out, as well. Let the defensive backs get concerned with Mason and Washington, and see what Clayton can do. I believe he'd be more effective than Williams, to be honest.
[/quote]
Everytime we're criticized by analysts, I always give coach ditka his props. Not only becuz he respects us, but his analytical skills are on point. Hes real! +1 for your post bro

[neepo13]

[quote name='Tighthead420' date='05 October 2009 - 01:35 PM' timestamp='1254764154' post='250062']
All the Clayton apologists seem to forget that this is not new. Dropped balls and misread routes are common.

While I am not ready to cut the guy today, I do think we should part ways and find a receiver we can count on ALL the time. Clayton is consistently inconsistent. He can wow you one play and then bomb the next.
[/quote]

Really how many drops did Clayton have last season? Since this is common.