Whos At Fault?

[svt2nv04]

[quote name='hammer' date='04 October 2009 - 07:11 PM' timestamp='1254697862' post='249196']
Err, Huum...make that six.
[/quote]

Still showing 5...

and now 3 for Clayton...

[ray-ray is a beast-beast]

[quote name='AwakenTheDemon' date='04 October 2009 - 07:21 PM' timestamp='1254698515' post='249212']
Sorry, sir, but Franny is correct. Whether or not all Ravens "are created equal", the team has to play as a whole, single entity. This isn't basketball, where you chuck it to LeBron to win games (no matter how badly TO wants it to be). Cam Cameron (and his play calling) is part of that single unit. We called some dubious plays, dropped some passes, missed some tackles, fumbled some balls, threw some passes to the defense, blew some coverage, and committed some penalties. That's no single person or group's fault.
[/quote]

So you don't think that some players played better football and contributed more than others?

You don't think some players dropped more balls than others or caused more penalties?

Yes, the whole team loses when the Ravens lose, and the whole team wins when the Ravens win -- that much is obvious and fundamental, but the point of this thread is to determine [i]who played the worst[/i] (however pessimistic the topic may be) not [i]what makes a team[/i], the question it seems like a lot of you are responding to.

why are some of you guys scared to "point fingers?"

[SaVaGe]

I put it all on Carr, our Offense was essentially unstoppable for the Patriots but we fell behind too quickly because of just 1 FG. From there on out maybe if we lost OT someone else would be to blame but from the 4Q's I saw it was him.

[BRYAN1146]

[quote name='Steelerkillers' date='04 October 2009 - 06:26 PM' timestamp='1254695208' post='249121']
Since everybodys around here pointing the finger at particular people, i figured it would make sense to start a thread about Blame instead of waisting posts in other thread discussions
[/quote]

reading the poll everyone on here seams to want to blame the refs of say we lost fair and square. the refs made no outrages calls and if they did we should have over come them and and saying we lost fir and square maybe thats true if we would have had any game plan at all !!! i quess cam thought we would just go in there and throw the ball all around but that didnt happen and maybe he could have changed his stratergy at half time but he didnt i spent the whole game screamming just run the ball. and our secondary omg. what can u say horrible.

[hammer]

[quote name='svt2nv04' date='04 October 2009 - 07:42 PM' timestamp='1254699738' post='249233']
Still showing 5...

and now 3 for Clayton...
[/quote]
you can count me as #6.

[SaVaGe]

I do think we should of ran Rice more I mean he had a 9.3 or so YPC which is phenomenal.

[BRYAN1146]

[quote name='SaVaGe' date='04 October 2009 - 07:51 PM' timestamp='1254700308' post='249251']
I do think we should of ran Rice more I mean he had a 9.3 or so YPC which is phenomenal.

exactly

[Andrew Glass]

Did anyone see the sportscenter segment with Berman, Tom Jackson, Dilfer and the other guy? They did a whole thing on the play calling between the ravens and pats and called out the refs for being awful and favoring pretty boy tom.

[Fred Sanford]

I blame big money. Why does Brady get calls nobody else does? Guy hits his leg last year, he goes down, team isn't quite as good, revenue falls. What do owners do? Make sure nothing like that interferes with the income stream again with these new rules. The bigger moneymaker a QB is, the more the rules apply to his defense. The Pats are more marketable than us, hence there's a thinly veiled favoritism. Not only that, they go for it on fourth down, don't get it AND commit a penalty, and that somehow...leads to 3 points. I always thought failing on 4th down is a loss of possession.

Naturally, you want to do enough that the refs can't decide it, but that's easier said than done when they're on their game and at home.

--

That's how you apply blame after a game, people. Raving about conspiracies and pointing the finger at everyone BUT us. This reasonable, objective self-reflection? Not for me.

[SaVaGe]

[quote name='Andrew Glass' date='04 October 2009 - 07:57 PM' timestamp='1254700643' post='249256']
Did anyone see the sportscenter segment with Berman, Tom Jackson, Dilfer and the other guy? They did a whole thing on the play calling between the ravens and pats and called out the refs for being awful and favoring pretty boy tom.
[/quote]

As much as I hate to do it because you generally only do it when you lose they did make horrible calls and it is going to be noticed and the refs will lose their jobs. This was almost as bad as the calls the refs made in 07.

[Aaron Vaught]

You all missed the train as far as I'm concerned and you can hate me for saying so, but our boys did great today. We got out to an early lead and then the penalties started to kill us, coincidence or not -- you live and die by the officials. It's the Ravens job to keep themselves out of those kind of positions to get penalized. There are five things that stand out in my mind:

1.) Ngata's roughing Brady on 3-and-4... blame it on refs, but again, don't put yourself in that position for the refs to interpret it that way. We had the stop but the penalty gave them a brand new set of downs and as the commentators said, "you don't give a QB like Brady second chances."

2.) Harbaugh's unsportsmanlike conduct penalty... we had a manageable set of downs and were making a good drive, not to mention when you start acting up like that and showing your frustration it shows the players you're starting to doubt. From that point on, everyone suffered.

3.) Wasting the time out on the sideline catch... It was fourth down, they were going to kick it. Why waste the timeout? (Someone please explain this to me?)

4.) Not using the final time out on the final drive... instead we hurried the defense with three straight pass plays to the right side going for the homerun shot every time. Of course Clayton wasn't going to come down with it, did you not see the MLBs dropping back into coverage and the CBs were all over wideouts. In retrospect, it would've been easier to run Rice/McGahee for some nice rushing gains, using the TWO timeouts you should have had and then go for the endzone.

5.) Where was the running game at today? Flacco threw for a career high 40+ passes and admittedly it worked well, too well in fact but in the red zone it didn't amount to anything.

Those are the factors that played the biggest part. The officiating, yeah there were some touchy calls but you cannot allow them the opportunity to stick it to you regardless if they're in someone's pocket or not.

Anyway, we played a hell of a game today. Flacco played well in Gillette Stadium spite being down, spite the noise, spite going up against one of the best franchises this decade. The only downside, it just sucks that Gaither and Ayanbadejo are hurting for it because we can't afford to lose any players right now. I don't want to see us in the same position as last year, going into an AFC Championship game with a banged up defense and our receivers playing with one arm.

Maybe I'm being harsh, but as my father used to tell me... "I'm cruel because I care."

On a final note, I went to grocery store today for my game time snack (chili cheese nachos) sporting the Reed jersey (of course!) and had a 70-year old man tell his wife, "He shouldn't be allowed to wear that out in public. It's just rude." To which my retort was, "Maybe so, but at least I'm still proud to wear it even if my team is losing... unlike some fans in blue I know."

[edreedfromtheu]

I can't put the game on any one play. So what if Clayton makes that catch? Doesn't mean they will get into endzone. I would rather have seen the Ravens run it 3 times in a row instead of pass 3 times in a row and have to convert that 3rd down anyway.

Our backs got 16 rushes. Never would have guessed that.

Defense looked like it was trying to trip the ball a lot, instead of bringing the ball carrier to the ground. Often it resulted in a lot of extra yards that eventually led to more first downs.

The TD to Moss, there was no reason for Foxworth to be turned around. They weren't playing press coverage, and he knew he was going to be one on one. Should have been much further back, so he was always facing the play. Randy didn't even have to make a play. Just stood there, caught it, and walked in.

Harbaugh waiting 20 seconds, then calling a timeout? Didn't make much sense right before halftime. Ravens could have got the ball back.

Return game... there is no excuse for the guys to take it out of the endzone when the kick goes that far. They have proven they can't break anything. And our offense usually can't be stopped. Why constantly back them up, when they could be starting at the comfort of the 20 yard line every time? Just down the ball every single time. And if the kick is inside the 10, then don't touch it and hope it bounces into the end zone. It's so simple. And with our offense, it's also the smart thing to do when you have no return game.

So yeah, it was just a very close game... where the Patriots made enough plays to win and the Ravens didn't. Still at the top of the division. Only got 2 games until the BYE week. And still in control of their own destiny. Regroup, get healthy, and get back on track next week. I'm more concerned about the Colts game coming up later this year than I am about this loss. We weren't embarassed tonight. But we know what happens when Peyton plays us.

[CT3]

We lost fair and square.

IF I had to point fingers. I would say Clayton because we was in a position to win it when he failed us on that particular play.

[Alexir]

Even though the defense didnt look great they still put points on the board from a turnover so you cant really blame them that much. I said Cam and the Refs but it really was an all around effort. Still not understanding the logic of 4th and 1 and not using a FB to open up a running lane...but lets focus on Cinci because that game actually matters more for winning the division.

[Moderator 2]

Per the Code of Conduct [quote][b]Criticism of the Ravens is allowed; personal attacks are no[/b]t. While we expect some members may post criticism of the Baltimore Ravens, we will not tolerate personal attacks towards these individuals. While you may attack the football-related actions or decisions of an individual, you may not attack the individual themselves. The Ownership, Coaching, Player and Staff should be accorded the same respect that the members are accorded.[/quote] Consider this a friendly warning.

[mhead66]

[quote name='Alexir' date='04 October 2009 - 08:12 PM' timestamp='1254701578' post='249279']
Even though the defense didnt look great they still put points on the board from a turnover so you cant really blame them that much. I said Cam and the Refs but it really was an all around effort. Still not understanding the logic of 4th and 1 and not using a FB to open up a running lane...[b]but lets focus on Cinci because that game actually matters more for winning the division[/b].
[/quote]
True that.

Just like coaches tell their players, win or lose - come Monday morning, you put the emotion of the past game behind you, and learn from the experience.

As I stated before, I think the person who has to learn from this game is Cam Cameron... running 25% of the time, when you average almost 7 yards/carry.

But look on the bright side - at least we're not Browns or Raiders fans...

[Mahatma_Sloth]

[quote name='svt2nv04' date='04 October 2009 - 05:07 PM' timestamp='1254697655' post='249187']
I find it interesting there are 5 votes for "refs"...
[/quote]
i was watching sports center and they were explicit about how the refs were calling the game lopsided. all i gotta say is we shoulda ran a whole lot more with rice kid was on fire

[Runnin Raven]

Too many penalties, although I know a few key ones were questionable. Tough loss, but hardly the end of the world.

[Mahatma_Sloth]

[quote name='CT3' date='04 October 2009 - 06:11 PM' timestamp='1254701494' post='249276']
We lost fair and square.

IF I had to point fingers. I would say Clayton because we was in a position to win it when he failed us on that particular play.
[/quote]
how we would of had the ball at the 10 with 30 on a running clock cuz he woulda been tackled inbounds. we woulda had a chance but its not a gimme unless your inside the 5 imo

[Ed_Reed_Pick_Six]

Firstly, what a disappointing way to lose. To win that game despite being outplayed was a real pity.

I would have liked far more rushing utilised. Control the clock, whatsmore, Rice was tearing the Patriots up. Penalties... oh my, penalties.

Starting the game by muffing the return was awful too, that's such a poor way to start. Sets a horrible precedent for the afternoon.

So yeah, I was disappointed in some people more than others, but I won't call them out. I realise things go wrong and that they'll be highly disappointed too.

What should have been, is 4-0.

[flynismo]

[quote name='ray-ray is a beast-beast' date='04 October 2009 - 07:43 PM' timestamp='1254699791' post='249237']
why are some of you guys scared to "point fingers?"
[/quote]

Don't expect anyone to answer that. Life is more comfortable when you lay down and take it, and pretend everything is okay.

Fingers need to be pointed at times. When you screw up, you should be held accountable.

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='Steelerkillers' date='04 October 2009 - 06:53 PM' timestamp='1254696827' post='249167']
Tell me about it! It was painful to watch. We're not used to this style of Defense. When you're used to seeing a tuff D for 10 years, its hard to adjust to this bull-crap!
[/quote]
Best statement by far on this thread i awarded a positive point to this because you took the words right out of my mouth. The defense is no where near what they where when Rex was in here., I know the ravens fans like Harbaugh and all but what aspect of the game does he coach, because i don't think you trade a great d coordinator for a team manager. Harbaugh may be one of the nicest well spoken men in the league but as far as a head coach come on, he's just a manager, a spokesman that's it. If not then tell him to take over the defensive play calling and watch us look even worst.

[K-Dog]

Played right there would be no question at all.

[Ed_Reed_Pick_Six]

Criticing Harbaugh is pointless, he's our coach for the long run. Even if he did make mistakes.

[K-Dog]

[quote name='Ed_Reed_Pick_Six' date='04 October 2009 - 08:50 PM' timestamp='1254703856' post='249329']
Criticing Harbaugh is pointless, he's our coach for the long run. Even if he did make mistakes.
[/quote]


Did any one hear Marty Bass's rant on channel 13's post game show?

It was pretty cool.

He actually encouraged that type of behaviour to let the reff's know he will be watching them and working to hold them accountable.

[PuRock]

I can tell you this much. I doubt Mark Clayton will be the guest host on the "Troy Smith Radio Show" tomorrow night.

[Steelerkillers]

[quote name='RBates' date='04 October 2009 - 08:47 PM' timestamp='1254703641' post='249324']
Best statement by far on this thread i awarded a positive point to this because you took the words right out of my mouth. The defense is no where near what they where when Rex was in here., I know the ravens fans like Harbaugh and all but what aspect of the game does he coach, because i don't think you trade a great d coordinator for a team manager. Harbaugh may be one of the nicest well spoken men in the league but as far as a head coach come on, he's just a manager, a spokesman that's it. If not then tell him to take over the defensive play calling and watch us look even worst.
[/quote]
Its sorta like, not eating fried foods, Pork or beef for months or years. But, when you change your diet all of a sudden and start eating what your body isnt used to, Your stomach wont tolerate it. Thats how im feelin about our D. Its not what we're used to.

[CorvusCorax]

I think what happened is that frustration (from refs, plays, etc.) from a lot of people, even the coach, prevented them from focusing on a win. I mean tension was so high you could cut it with a knife. Instead of that first challenge (which looked against our favor from the get-go), I would've used a TO to collect the team re-inspire/motivate them.

[theFRANCHISE]

[quote name='RBates' date='04 October 2009 - 08:47 PM' timestamp='1254703641' post='249324']
Best statement by far on this thread i awarded a positive point to this because you took the words right out of my mouth. The defense is no where near what they where when Rex was in here., I know the ravens fans like Harbaugh and all [b]but what aspect of the game does he coach, because i don't think you trade a great d coordinator for a team manager.[/b] Harbaugh may be one of the nicest well spoken men in the league but as far as a head coach come on, he's just a manager, a spokesman that's it. If not then tell him to take over the defensive play calling and watch us look even worst.
[/quote]
A head coaching job is an administrative position, anyway. I think the Jets' early success has more to do with Mike Pettine taking Rex's scheme and using Bart Scott as the leader by example of the new culture, than Rex's coaching itself.

The reason why most coordinators who get promoted to a head coaching job, fail at their respective area of expertise, is because they can't devote as much time to that particular side of the ball as they did when they were a coordinator. Head coaches are all about the big picture, while the coordinators and their assistants focus on each specialized area.

You win the game by scoring points, right? Has this team not been scoring points? Therefore, I'm not complaining about any of the changes over the past two years. We're just used to being spoiled by a great defense.

[Ed_Reed_Pick_Six]

[quote name='K-Dog' date='05 October 2009 - 01:20 PM' timestamp='1254705605' post='249371']
Did any one hear Marty Bass's rant on channel 13's post game show?

It was pretty cool.

[b]H[/b][b]e actually encouraged that type of behaviour to let the reff's know he will be watching them and working to hold them accountable.[/b]
[/quote]
I couldn't agree more, they need to know they can't just officiate poorly and hide behind protocol. It's utter trash!