Merged Criticism Of Our Defense Threads

[EDDY]

Jets D shut down New Orleans offense. Held Brees to his 2nd lowest passing yard total since 07, consistently got the Saints offense off the field (4-13 on 3rd downs), and their takeaway help create the Jets only touchdown of the game.

The only one that got exposed yesterday was Sanchez, not the Jets defense.

[theFRANCHISE]

[quote name='Gtown Purple' date='05 October 2009 - 09:10 AM' timestamp='1254748231' post='249852']
I'm not sure if this entire post was directed at me but I mentioned the exotic looks because they worked for us last year play Rex Ryan's defense played pretty well against the best offense in the league yesterday..
[/quote]
[quote name='darklight1216' date='05 October 2009 - 09:10 AM' timestamp='1254748255' post='249853']
Sadly, I missed the Jets/ Saints games yesterday, so correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't two of the Saints touchdowns come from the defense? Didn't the Jets keep Drew Brees (and also Tom Brady) from scoring a touchdown?
I know that highlights and stats don't tell the full story, but when exactly did that defense get exposed?
[/quote]
The entire post wasn't directed towards your post, just that one statement. I caught bits and pieces of the game as it aired, and Rex's defense wasn't nearly as effective as the stat line indicated; Pierre Thomas found success most of the game, getting stopped for short or negative yardage only a handful of times. Additionally, Drew Brees was able to find soft spots over the middle that he exploited, particularly in the second half. His yardage was a season-low 190 yards, but he was efficient enough with the ball and limited his mistakes.

Rex's defense is designed to make mistakes, yet Brees never threw a pick and the Saints only lost one fumble. Additionally, whether it was the product of the Saints forcing turnovers or the Jets' miscues, Brees and the offense also lead in time of possession, something that the Jets defense, had it done its job, wouldn't have allowed.

[quote name='darklight1216' date='05 October 2009 - 09:10 AM' timestamp='1254748255' post='249853']
I agree with you about the having a top ten defense with an offense to match it, but you can the greatest offense, and if you're paired with a lousy defense, you aren't going to get anywhere. Do you remember the Saints from last year; how about the Chargers? Both teams had excellent offenses and bottom ten defenses and they finished the year 8-8. That doesn't fly in divisions that don't begin with "W."

Now I must refer back to possibly the most overused saying in football :offense sells tickets; defense wins championships.
[/quote]
The Colts were able to win the Super Bowl in spite of their defense in 2006. The 2005 Patriots had the 7th-ranked offense but the 26th-ranked defense and finished 10-6. The 2000 Rams had the top-ranked offense but the 23rd-ranked defense and also made a playoff appearance. "Defense Wins Championships" is slowly becoming a cliche, as the Steelers, a defensive team, won on offense in the Super Bowl last year. The rules are again changing to where this is becoming an offensive league. In theory, it's always been an offensive-geared league since the object of the game, again, is to score more points than the other team.

[quote name='darklight1216' date='05 October 2009 - 09:10 AM' timestamp='1254748255' post='249853']
We did the exact same thing in 2007, and where did that get us? Here's another trite saying: almost only counts in horshoes and nuclear warfare. We could have been sitting on top of the division, but now we're only tied. Which, as you said, is better than not being tied for first, but this is a dissapointment to say the least, and good portion of that dissapointment comes from the defensive side of the ball.
[/quote]
Sitting on top of the division, even tied, is far better than being completely out of the hunt. Additionally, the Ravens only play less than a handful of "elite" teams this season -- a setback now is not nearly as costly as one down the line. Including the preseason, the Ravens had won seven straight games heading into Week 4. Better to suffer a loss in a non-divisional game than against a divisional rival -- hence why the Week 5 game against the Bengals now holds more weight. The first order of business is always to win the divisional title, as that's a guaranteed ticket to the postseason. We could beat all the "elite" teams on the schedule, but those handful of wins would mean nothing if we lose the rest of our games, including most of our divisional games.

[EDDY]

Obviously the Saints were gonna lead in time of possession with the 900 Jets turnovers. But Jets D held their own when they needed stops on 3rd downs they got them. They kept their team in the game, while the offense did everything to lose the game allowing 2 touchdowns. Actually the Jets offense has allowed as many TD's (3) as their defense has allowed this year. Has anyone ever heard of that?

[slayback0317]

Is it just me or was there hardly any pressure on Brady he had way to much time to make plays. The Ravens should of found a way to add pressre to brady without slacking on coverage.

[PuRock]

[quote name='slayback0317' date='05 October 2009 - 10:24 AM' timestamp='1254752640' post='249905']
Is it just me or was there hardly any pressure on Brady he had way to much time to make plays. The Ravens should of found a way to add pressre to brady without slacking on coverage.
[/quote]

The pressure was coming from the outside. Which works in Brady's favor. He likes to step forward into his passes and have clear vision.

We got decent pressure. Prior to this game Brady was only sacked once, we got 3 on him yesterday.

But we failed at getting pressure into his passing lanes. Which is how you disrupt Brady and their passing game.

[Bullitt_711]

Game question...Bodden made contact on Clayton past 5 yards and held him for a second Clayton continued on the route and Bodden made the pic, but why wasn't that called pass interference, he made contact past five yards, what am I not understanding or seeing? Same for the play call did Clayton miss the call? Joe did throw off his back foot, anyone hear the explanation on the play call came up short as Clayton continued on the route north.

Ravens Observation: The Ravens offense is improved of course, but the defense is worse, the Ravens miss Bart Scott (I thought they could replace him myself, but it's been a spinning door of guys, injuries sure, but still they def. miss Scott) and the guy I wanted more than Bart Scott was Leonard I wonder what he was offered before he left and what he got in NY? Leonard was invaluable, played in the secondary and gave the Ravens another ballhawk to go with Reed, and returned punts and kickoffs like a machine, and got little love from this Ravens board, I didn't get why most on this board wanted Yamon returning kicks, cuz Jim has pillow hands and knows how to run rather than a guy like Figurs who's only got speed north and south. Caar tries, but to me he's average at best if not below average. Just resigning Leonard, the Ravens win that game yesterday, no way he fumbles that kickoff, and he would have made better plays in the secondary than Caar. We just need more playmakers in the secondary.

Would you consider the Ravens secondary ATM...I say average myself.

Poor
Below Avg
Average
Above Average
Great

Joey Flack 4th best QB in the L?...Manning, Brady, Rothispuke, Flacco.

Is Ed Reed 100%? I watch the entire games and I know he's bustin his ****** off, but I don't see him in plays as much as I have in the past.

[Ed_Reed20]

The refs probably could've called PI on Bodden but they didn't. It doesn't surprise me.

I personally don't think the Ravens miss Bart that much. I know a LB can impact a game in other ways but Bart doesn't have a sack, pick or a forced fumble on the season. He isn't a playmaker.

We all loved Leonhard but there's no way you can guarantee whether he or anyone else wouldn't have fumbled the opening kick-off and the team would've won with him playing. Also, Leonhard and Carr play two different positions.

[WinnipegRaven]

[quote name='Bullitt_711' date='05 October 2009 - 08:59 AM' timestamp='1254754797' post='249942']
Game question...Bodden made contact on Clayton past 5 yards and held him for a second Clayton continued on the route and Bodden made the pic, but why wasn't that called pass interference, he made contact past five yards, what am I not understanding or seeing?

Ravens Observation: The Ravens offense is improved of course, but the defense is worse, the Ravens miss Bart Scott (I thought they could replace him myself, but it's been a spinning door of guys, injuries sure, but still they def. miss Scott) and the guy I wanted more than Bart Scott was Leonard I wonder what he was offered before he left and what he got in NY? Leonard was invaluable, played in the secondary and gave the Ravens another ballhawk to go with Reed, and returned punts and kickoffs like a machine, and got little love from this Ravens board, I didn't get why most on this board wanted Yamon, cuz Jim has pillow hands and knows how to run rather than a guy like Figurs who's only got speed north and south. Caar tries, but to me he's average at best if not below average. Just resigning Leonard, the Ravens win that game yesterday, no way he fumbles that kickoff, and he would have made better plays in the secondary than Caar. BTW is Ed Reed 100%? We just need more playmakers in the secondary.

Would you consider the Ravens secondary ATM...

Poor
Below Avg
Average
Above Average
Great

[/quote]
Q1 - Hard to say, could have went both ways potentially - if Clayton ran into him (as Randy Moss ran over "cant remember his name atm") could have been called Offensive PI. Clayton clearly either ran the wrong route, or Joe threw it too soon (looked like a stop & go to me) but when the contact was made a ref could have said that the NE CB impeded Clayton's route because he was making a play on the ball, a ball Clayton had no idea was coming.

2 - Yes, it would be wonderful to have Leonard back. It was sick hearing the beginning of the game "Now here's David Carr, a very dangerous return man" - fumble.

3 - Ravens secondary - below average.

4 - No, I don't think Ed is 100%.

[Bullitt_711]

....................................

[Alexir]

I think there was some horrible blitzs called by Mattison. Don't use the NFLs most feared ball hawk to blitz the quarterback when RANDY MOSS IS ON THE FIELD ONE ON ONE WITH FOXWORTH!!!!!!!!!!!

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Alexir' date='05 October 2009 - 12:23 PM' timestamp='1254759825' post='250004']
I think there was some horrible blitzs called by Mattison. Don't use the NFLs most feared ball hawk to blitz the quarterback when RANDY MOSS IS ON THE FIELD ONE ON ONE WITH FOXWORTH!!!!!!!!!!!
[/quote]

That was one play. It's easy to say it was bad call by Mattison because Foxworth got beat but if you look at the play, everything was going right until the ball left Brady's hand. Reed timed his blitz perfectly, Brady threw the ball off his back foot and yet somehow Foxworth let Moss get by him to haul in the pass. Foxworth is an NFL corner. That ball should have at least been batted down if not picked off. You can't blame Mattison for how the play unfolded.

[RaK427]

[quote name='Alexir' date='05 October 2009 - 12:23 PM' timestamp='1254759825' post='250004']
I think there was some horrible blitzs called by Mattison. Don't use the NFLs most feared ball hawk to blitz the quarterback when RANDY MOSS IS ON THE FIELD ONE ON ONE WITH FOXWORTH!!!!!!!!!!!
[/quote]

I agree, I bet if Ryan had called that play for us it would have involved Foxworth and Reed switching positions/roles on the blitz.

[baltiMORE RAVENS]

I truly think this defense is built for December and January...when the games really matter. Passing games slow down because of the weather and running the ball becomes more important. Teams are gonna have a tough time facing us when that happens.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='biggkatt01' date='04 October 2009 - 09:58 PM' timestamp='1254715084' post='249637']
I'm glad you don't do this for a living evry expert everyone that herad that claim about mcalister laughed he was never a shut down corner never and like I said learn something about the game and our coordinator learn the scheme he is trying to run is the same that the College Florida Gators run learn something.

Nola is using the same players on the Bronco's team that where horrible by everyone's account last year this year there way better, see your one of those fans that say hey were great even though the defense is at days end now ranked #9 in the league we let a winless team in KC score 24 points I sure am glad we don't have the Redskins here because you would try to tell us the loss to Detroit wasn't that bad.

If you claim you know football you would know this is going downhill quick his defensive plans will never work here but keep trying to tell everyone it will.We have to be able to admit when something isn't working if you think in our division that you can work with no real defensive scheme your just nuts Matttison is calling blitzes at the wrong time he's calling the wrong defensive plays it's going downhill.
[/quote]
Im glad YOU dont do this for a living. Anyone who has ever watched football knows from 00-06 McAlister was one of if not the best corner in all of football. Ive never once stated Mattison was blameless, but he doesnt have what prior defenses have had in the secondary man. He doesnt have the same talent. I dont think any DC would have this unit in the top 5 right now, we just dont have the personnel. Am I scratching my head why Fox was left 1 on 1 with Moss in the redzone on 3rd down ya, Fox also should have know to look in after 3 seconds knowing its an all out blitz tho as well. But Im not blaming Mattison for sub par performance by our secondary.

[darklight1216]

Our defensive stats are pretty interesting right now. The Ravens are 19th in scoring; 23rd against the pass (the woeful, winless Cleveland Browns have a higher ranked pass defense) 1st in rushing, 3rd in interceptions, and 9th overall.

[curiousg87]

Why has the Ravens Defense taken a step back this year.

http://tightend.blogspot.com/2009/10/week-6.html

[Alexir]

MERGE TOPIC PLEASE

[Sizzle]

The defense is still good. Its just were are giving up too many big plays. Mostly because quarterbacks just throw it up because their not scared of anyone of our CB's and landry.

[curiousg87]

A good pass rush helps corners and safeties out. QB has to get passes off faster and receivers have to break routes off which leads to turnovers!

[FlaccoFlicker]

[quote name='Alexir' date='22 October 2009 - 04:30 PM' timestamp='1256243413' post='264754']
MERGE TOPIC PLEASE
[/quote]
What i was thinking I understand asking about the Defense but how many do we need.And to answer the question it is a good D but not great

[darklight1216]

[quote name='Sizzle' date='22 October 2009 - 04:54 PM' timestamp='1256244855' post='264762']
The defense is still good. Its just were are giving up too many big plays. Mostly because quarterbacks just throw it up because their not scared of anyone of our CB's and landry.
[/quote]
We are what..21st in points allowed? That is not a good defense; in fact, that is a distinctly bad defense. It's true that quarterbacks aren't afraid of our corners, but running backs aren't afraid of our linebackers who aren't named Lewis, and offensive lines aren't afraid of our d-line men either. All in all, this a bad year for the once proud Baltimore defense. I hope they get it together or we are in for a long year.

[mhead66]

[quote name='darklight1216' date='22 October 2009 - 05:17 PM' timestamp='1256246265' post='264778']
We are what..21st in points allowed? That is not a good defense; in fact, that is a distinctly bad defense. It's true that quarterbacks aren't afraid of our corners, but running backs aren't afraid of our linebackers who aren't named Lewis, and offensive lines aren't afraid of our d-line men either. All in all, this a bad year for the once proud Baltimore defense. I hope they get it together or we are in for a long year.
[/quote]
Just for the record, the D is currently:

8th vs. the Rush
12th in points allowed
17th in yards allowed
22nd vs. the Pass

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&role=OPP&offensiveStatisticCategory=null&defensiveStatisticCategory=TEAM_PASSING&season=2009&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=true&Submit=Go

[darklight1216]

[quote name='mhead66' date='22 October 2009 - 07:53 PM' timestamp='1256255637' post='264895']
Just for the record, the D is currently:

8th vs. the Rush
12th in points allowed
17th in yards allowed
22nd vs. the Pass

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&role=OPP&offensiveStatisticCategory=null&defensiveStatisticCategory=TEAM_PASSING&season=2009&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=true&Submit=Go
[/quote]
I'm seeing 22nd in scoring. O.o One hundred and thirty points allowed. We're right between SD (136) and Buffalo. (129)

[mhead66]

[quote name='darklight1216' date='22 October 2009 - 08:15 PM' timestamp='1256256932' post='264916']
I'm seeing 22nd in scoring. O.o One hundred and thirty points allowed. We're right between SD (136) and Buffalo. (129)
[/quote]
My bad - the NFL.com list ranks teams by worst-first in their "points allowed" stat - I counted from the wrong direction...

But I look at points/game average, because some teams, that have had byes, will automatically have less points allowed, having played one less game.

But, even that way, the Ravens' D is 21st in points allowed...

[Perfekt]

i really feel that the 3-4 would be better. i feel like there would be less confusion an the passing game would have one extra person in space to help out.

[Alexir]

[url="http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/bal-preston1022,0,4088555.column"]http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/bal-preston1022,0,4088555.column[/url]

interesting input from Rolle and Woodson.

Also:

Should Dawan beging splitting time with Nakamura/or zibby or even bring up KJ Gerard (who had an amazing pre season)?

In retrospect, was trading Derrick Martin to Green Bay such a good idea?

[wayne]

[quote name='Bltravens' date='05 October 2009 - 01:28 PM' timestamp='1254767294' post='250108']
Im glad YOU dont do this for a living. Anyone who has ever watched football knows from 00-06 McAlister was one of if not the best corner in all of football. Ive never once stated Mattison was blameless, but he doesnt have what prior defenses have had in the secondary man. He doesnt have the same talent. [b]donI t think any DC would have this unit in the top 5 right now, we just dont have the personnel[/b]. Am I scratching my head why Fox was left 1 on 1 with Moss in the redzone on 3rd down ya, Fox also should have know to look in after 3 seconds knowing its an all out blitz tho as well. But Im not blaming Mattison for sub par performance by our secondary.
[/quote]

I totally disagree with this. You think it's a coiencedence the Saints D is playing so great? You think its a coiencedence the Broncos D is playing so great? Those teams D were awful just last year and the years after and now they are playing shut down football with just about the same personnel.

People thats saying that Mattison isn't the problem, I don't know what games you have been looking at? True, our players have screwed up alot in alot of situations but why keep putting those players in the same position to screw up? I hear people keep talking about that Moss TD catch and blaming it on Foxworth. Foxworth is not to blame, only a few corners in the league could have made a play on that ball vs Moss and Mattison should have known that Foxworth isn't one of them. As a D Coordinatoor, you have to know your personnel and what they are capable of, thats also part of being a good D Coordinatoor. You can't keep putting them in situations thats not suited for them where they have a great chance at failing, you need to put them in situations to magnify their strenghts, not their weaknesses.It's easier said than done, of course, but thats why Mattison is a D-Coordinatoor in the NFL making millions, he needs to find solutions t the hard problems of the D.

Like I posted in another thread, Mattison has completely changed the identity of this D up. We go from a 3-4, everyone moving around showing blitz, overload blitzes and stunts to a 4-3, everyone just stand still, just rushing our Front 4 with occasionally blitzing type of D. before, I had to guess what type of D we were in alot of times b/c thats the genius of good D-Coordinators, if they running a 3-4 or a 4-3 most times you couldn't tell what they are in. I remember Romo last year saying how confused the Ravens had him for the first 3 quarters b/c he didn't know who was playing what position, who was coming or dropping back.Now, Mattison is running a textbook 4-3 and any good QB will be able to make good reads on it.

IMO, if he doesn't go back to using the 3-4 sort of like how Rex use to use it, we are doomed. Where do we play the Colts this year?Either Peyton will put up over 300 on us are their RB's will run for over a 100 on us using this style of D.If we had the personnel to run this D then Mattison would be fine but obviously we don't, we are a blitzing team, not a Cover 2 type of a team.We generate a pass rush with our exotic blitz schemes from our LB's, we don't sit back and depend on our run stopping D-lineman to get pressure.

[size="5"][b]FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, GO BACK TO THE 3-4 WITH LOTS OF BLITZING TO ATLEAST MAKE THE O-COORDINATOOR ON THE OTHER SIDE THINK TWICE BEFORE DIALING UP SOME OF HIS PLAYS ON US. THAT PLAYACTION PASS THAT Favre THREW AT THE END TO SIDNEY RICE PROBABLY WOULDNT HAVE BEEN CALLED IF WE WERE IN OUR 3-4 BLITZING SCHEME OF YESTERYEAR.IT DOESN'T TAKE A ROCKET SCIENTIST TO SEE WHATS THE PROBLEM WITH OUR D!IF THE SAINTS D DID WHAT OUR D IS DOING, THEY WOULD GET ATE ALIVE. IF THE BRONCOS D DID WHAT WE ARE DOING, THEY WOULD GET ATE ALIVE. IT'S MORE SO THE SCHEME THAN THE TEAM[/size]![/b]