Pass Rush Through 3 Games ...2000-2009

[flynismo]

[quote name='hammer' date='30 September 2009 - 11:41 PM' timestamp='1254368499' post='245219']
Hey look guys. I am just used to seeing Ravens playing smothering defense. Maybe I am spoiled. But I am used to seeing Peter Boulware rushing the passer, Michael McCrary, Rob Burnett, and Adelious Thomas. This weak pass rush is new to me. It started last year when the Ravens did not have a dominant pass rusher and Rex devised some schemes to cover for it. I am just hoping Mattison is as clever as Rex and get's it done. Maybe we can win without it, but I can't just wave my pom poms and pretend like it's there. I love the Ravens too!
[/quote]

We're tied for 4th in the NFL in sacks. I just don't see this weak pass rush you're talking about.

[theFRANCHISE]

[quote name='hammer' date='30 September 2009 - 11:41 PM' timestamp='1254368499' post='245219']
Hey look guys. I am just used to seeing Ravens playing smothering defense.
[/quote]
There [i]is[/i] such a thing as being [i]too aggressive[/i] on defense...

If you go back the past few years, notice how that style usually worked mostly on bad teams; there were rarely any games where the defense was able to truly contain a good offense for too long. The Chargers and Chiefs were able to rack up 100 yards rushing on us (as a unit) in 2006. The Patriots were able to dissect the secondary in the second half in 2007. The Colts most certainly diced up the secondary in 2007 and 2008. And so on and so forth.

My point is, just because guys aren't blitzing from crazy angles, doesn't mean this defense isn't working. Sure, it's not as exciting to watch, but when has an exciting game mattered more to us than a victory? If we were in it just for the entertainment value, we could get that every week by blitzing all 11 guys on every down and losing almost every game.

[1/28/01]

[quote name='flynismo' date='30 September 2009 - 11:33 PM' timestamp='1254368012' post='245215']
I'm not one to rest on my laurels either, but damn, what more can we possibly want?? We have an elite offense to go with an elite defense. Heck we even have an elite punter!! I'm happy.
[/quote]

Agreed - some people just like to complain

[1/28/01]

[quote name='hammer' date='30 September 2009 - 11:41 PM' timestamp='1254368499' post='245219']
Hey look guys. I am just used to seeing Ravens playing smothering defense. Maybe I am spoiled. But I am used to seeing Peter Boulware rushing the passer, Michael McCrary, Rob Burnett, and Adelious Thomas. This weak pass rush is new to me. It started last year when the Ravens did not have a dominant pass rusher and Rex devised some schemes to cover for it. I am just hoping Mattison is as clever as Rex and get's it done. Maybe we can win without it, but I can't just wave my pom poms and pretend like it's there. I love the Ravens too!
[/quote]

I think we are all slightly off kilter a bit watching an offensive powerhouse instead of winning 15 - 10 but the dudes you mentioned you're used to watching haven't been with us for years, so no one should be used to watching what was described now.

I'm living in the now and I am siked watching the Ravens play!!!!

[JEEPercreepermd]

[quote name='hammer' date='30 September 2009 - 11:41 PM' timestamp='1254368499' post='245219']
Hey look guys. I am just used to seeing Ravens playing smothering defense. Maybe I am spoiled. But I am used to seeing Peter Boulware rushing the passer, Michael McCrary, Rob Burnett, and Adelious Thomas. This weak pass rush is new to me. It started last year when the Ravens did not have a dominant pass rusher and Rex devised some schemes to cover for it. I am just hoping Mattison is as clever as Rex and get's it done. Maybe we can win without it, but I can't just wave my pom poms and pretend like it's there. I love the Ravens too!
[/quote]
Listen, we can get pretty heated in our arguments here but at the end of the day we all bleed purple. I agree, to see so many great defensive players come and go here is more than enough to spoil you. I just have the feeling that it's still early in the season, and things will come together.

[Alexir]

We have had a lack of pass rush on some pretty beat up lines. That is my major concern. To beat Brady we will need a lot of Blitz Packages.

[hammer]

Guys Look. Is there anyone who can agree that a strong pass rush is an important part of the defense, which also impacts pass coverage? I am ok with the criticism because this stuff is not personal to me. But can you agree with this one point?

[flynismo]

Of course it is.
And less is better, as you were trying to say (the less men we need to create pressure, the better)

[hammer]

FYI....1/28 and "The Franchise" - no hard feelings from me. For REAL! Stay Ravens Fans Forever! God Bless You.

[1/28/01]

[quote name='hammer' date='30 September 2009 - 11:59 PM' timestamp='1254369587' post='245233']
FYI....1/28 and "The Franchise" - no hard feelings from me. For REAL! Stay Ravens Fans Forever! God Bless You.
[/quote]

Right back at ya....everyone has opinions and on an open forum you're going to get many difference of opinions.

GO RAVENS!

[hammer]

Horay! Less is better. Thank you....thank you...thank you! But of course, stop the run also, cover the screens, and the draws, and pressure the passer too.

[theFRANCHISE]

[quote name='hammer' date='30 September 2009 - 11:54 PM' timestamp='1254369290' post='245231']
Guys Look. Is there anyone who can agree that a strong pass rush is an important part of the defense, which also impacts pass coverage? I am ok with the criticism because this stuff is not personal to me. But can you agree with this one point?
[/quote]
Of course we all agree that a strong pass rush is an important part of the defense -- no one was refuting that. However, to say that this pass rush has been weak, is a bit of an exaggeration. I think the main issue is that the defense hasn't been getting as many sacks, which is bound to happen against QBs that either have quick releases (as in the case of Philip Rivers) or rush their decisions (as in the case of Croyle/Thigpen/Quinn/Anderson.)

You don't automatically improve the pass rush by blitzing more; a lot of it could have to do with technique or having the proper packages in.

With that said, I understand that the defense also shouldn't rest on its laurels right now, and there's always room for improvement. But the argument I'm continually trying to make is, Rex's exotic blitzes aren't necessarily the [i]right[/i] way to go about it, and certainly aren't the [i]only[/i] way to go about it. The 2000 Ravens were able to get a strong pass rush operating primarily out of a base defense, so no reason why the 2009 Ravens can't do the same.

[hammer]

Dude, in 2000, Rob Burnett and Michael McCrary, and Peter Boulware were terorizing the opposing quarterbacks. Ray almost never blitzed. You don't remember this?

[theFRANCHISE]

[quote name='hammer' date='01 October 2009 - 12:09 AM' timestamp='1254370183' post='245242']
Dude, in 2000, Rob Burnett and Michael McCrary, and Peter Boulware were terorizing the opposing quarterbacks. Ray almost never blitzed. You don't remember this?
[/quote]
I was only 10 or 11 when the Ravens won the Super Bowl in 2000, so no, don't exactly have memories of all that. But the point I was making was the very thing you just said; the 2000 Ravens didn't need exotic blitzing, so why should the 2009 Ravens?

And again, it's always fun to watch, and it's won us a couple of games -- but it also was largely ineffective against great QBs and great teams.

[flynismo]

[quote name='hammer' date='01 October 2009 - 12:09 AM' timestamp='1254370183' post='245242']
Dude, in 2000, Rob Burnett and Michael McCrary, and Peter Boulware were terorizing the opposing quarterbacks. Ray almost never blitzed. You don't remember this?
[/quote]

I do, and I also remember that Petey was a LB. So it wasn't just a four man rush we were bringing in.

[hammer]

Yeah guy, but Burnett and McCrary were both DL's, just like Mathis and Freeney of the Colts. Boulware was the fifth guy and they wreaked havoc... you guys are too tough for me. I'm tired...lets just root for the Ravens. Hopefully they can get a pass rush on Brady. I'm out. God Bless You.

[flynismo]

[quote name='hammer' date='01 October 2009 - 12:16 AM' timestamp='1254370613' post='245245']
Yeah guy, but Burnett and McCrary were both DL's, just like Mathis and Freeney of the Colts. Boulware was the fifth guy and they wreaked havoc... you guys are too tough for me. I'm tired...lets just root for the Ravens. Hopefully they can get a pass rush on Brady. I'm out. God Bless You.
[/quote]

<oops>
Don't worry, we'll have something for NE this weekend. Fun times!!

[YYZ66]

[quote name='theFRANCHISE' date='01 October 2009 - 01:11 AM' timestamp='1254370305' post='245243']
[b]I was only 10 or 11 when the Ravens won the Super Bowl in 2000[/b], so no, don't exactly have memories of all that. But the point I was making was the very thing you just said; the 2000 Ravens didn't need exotic blitzing, so why should the 2009 Ravens?

And again, it's always fun to watch, and it's won us a couple of games -- but it also was largely ineffective against great QBs and great teams.
[/quote]

Well, thank you for making me feel older than dirt!

[PuRock]

[quote name='hammer' date='01 October 2009 - 12:09 AM' timestamp='1254370183' post='245242']
Dude, in 2000, Rob Burnett and Michael McCrary, and Peter Boulware were terorizing the opposing quarterbacks. Ray almost never blitzed. You don't remember this?
[/quote]
[quote name='hammer' date='01 October 2009 - 12:16 AM' timestamp='1254370613' post='245245']
Yeah guy, but Burnett and McCrary were both DL's, just like Mathis and Freeney of the Colts. Boulware was the fifth guy and they wreaked havoc... you guys are too tough for me. I'm tired...lets just root for the Ravens. Hopefully they can get a pass rush on Brady. I'm out. God Bless You.
[/quote]

I agree to a degree. Those were the good ole days where we could get pressure with our front four. I always want that from our front four, but it isn't the way we are set up. Ngata and Gregg are gap plugging run stoppers. Pryce is getting up there in age, but still closes the pocket consistently. Suggs is our only true pass rusher who is still getting in gear.

We now make our living on getting pressure with the blitz. Just like we did with Rex. Nothing's change.

Mathis and Frenney are pure pass rushers. Just like Tuck and Osi in NY. When you have those two pure pass rushers that's a whole new level.

But to say there's a drop off from Rex to now. Is ridonkulous. We had the same chemical makeup last year.

[JEEPercreepermd]

Remember back in those days we had Sam Adams and Goose in the middle of that DLine. I think Haloti and Buddy Lee are just as good as that pair, but Goose and Adams were HUGE

[hammer]

ok, all of the national analysts are saying that the key to a Ravens victory is the pass rush. All of the great quarterbacks need and want time to throw. Brady is no exception. We have to get pressure on him in order to throw off the routes of the recievers. Who is going to provide the best pass rush for the Ravens?

[flynismo]

[quote name='hammer' date='03 October 2009 - 11:38 PM' timestamp='1254627531' post='246582']
ok, all of the national analysts are saying that the key to a Ravens victory is the pass rush. All of the great quarterbacks need and want time to throw. Brady is no exception. We have to get pressure on him in order to throw off the routes of the recievers. Who is going to provide the best pass rush for the Ravens?
[/quote]

Look for Ngata, Gregg and Suggs to get the most consistent penetration.

[hammer]

ok, how many sacks do you predict?

[flynismo]

[quote name='hammer' date='04 October 2009 - 12:17 AM' timestamp='1254629830' post='246622']
ok, how many sacks do you predict?
[/quote]

I'm going to say......hmm....

how does 3 sound? Work for you?

I think Ray gets one, JJ gets one and Ngata gets the third.

Most of the pressure should be coming right up the middle tomorrow.

[Ravnet]

Still a sub-par pass rush, but this is due to a change in scheme with Mattison not even being on the same planet as Rex in terms of blitz frequency.

I'll look at the statistics at mid-season and judge whether the toning down of rushers improves our defense on the whole or not.

We do have to compensate for sub-par CBs, but I could a.) easily see Foxworth getting much, much better as the year goes on as he fully adjusts to the system and b.) our d-line breaking through eventually as they are absolutely stacked and an elite NFL unit.

[hammer]

Ok Rav, I am hoping that Fly's prediction is a better assessment. Lets watch the game. Go Ravens!

[Ed_Reed_Pick_Six]

Sacks are an overrated statistic. It's like comparing an uncontested jump shot in basketball against a shot with a hand in the shooter's face. Neither are blocked shots, but the second certainly has far more effect. The obvious equivalent in football is rushing the passer. I look forward to us really getting pressure on Brady tomorrow.

[XxSizzleXx]

If we came away with 3 sacks in the game against NE I would be extremely happy considering Brady has only been sacked once this year. NE`s OL is still pretty strong.

[Ed_Reed_Pick_Six]

[quote name='XxSizzleXx' date='04 October 2009 - 08:17 PM' timestamp='1254644245' post='246701']
If we came away with 3 sacks in the game against NE I would be extremely happy considering Brady has only been sacked once this year. NE`s OL is still pretty strong.
[/quote]
It's strong, but not as strong as it has been. I think a lot of it is Brady knows when to get rid of the ball to avoid sacks. He'll have to be careful against our defense where he does throw it though, our defense will be pumped up.