Merged: Steelers Lose To Bengals, Week 3!

[J-man]

[quote name='MagicianCamille' date='27 September 2009 - 07:11 PM' timestamp='1254093075' post='242933']
They really don't.
[/quote]

They dont look like a push over. They can put up a fight, and I think since Marvin in on his last thread, he is making them put it all on the line. I'm just saying, their offense is looking pretty good (not as good as the Ravens).

[Slick]

[quote name='flynismo' date='27 September 2009 - 08:10 PM' timestamp='1254096612' post='243040']
You know what they ALL have in common? INCREDIBLE talent all throughout the team.

Unlike the NBA, it is extremely rare for an NFL player to reach greatness without a talented team supporting him.
[/quote]

Yeah but take them out of the picture and I don't see their backups having the same success. The QB is the most important position in football, and that's why I think they're the only players that can get hurt and have the team's ability to win suffer because of it.

[JoeFlax]

[quote name='Wacco4Flacco' date='27 September 2009 - 07:31 PM' timestamp='1254094261' post='242964']
Go tell that to the Chicago Bulls fans when they had Micheal Jordan. When is the last time the Bulls went to the NBA Championship without Micheal Jordan?
[/quote]
yeah, what kind of mental disorder do you have again?

[flynismo]

[quote name='Slick' date='27 September 2009 - 08:19 PM' timestamp='1254097176' post='243050']
Yeah but take them out of the picture and I don't see their backups having the same success. The QB is the most important position in football, and that's why I think they're the only players that can get hurt and have the team's ability to win suffer because of it.
[/quote]

Steve Young did pretty well for himself....

but while QB is the most important position in football, he still needs great players around him to reach greatness.

Let's turn the tables. How good is Montana without Rice and Craig?
How good is Brady without a dominant OL and outstanding RB corp?
Etc....

[Slick]

[quote name='flynismo' date='27 September 2009 - 08:37 PM' timestamp='1254098261' post='243081']
Steve Young did pretty well for himself....

but while QB is the most important position in football, he still needs great players around him to reach greatness.

Let's turn the tables. How good is Montana without Rice and Craig?
How good is Brady without a dominant OL and outstanding RB corp?
Etc....
[/quote]

I remember a time when the Patriots receiving corp was not well respected. I also remember them winning the super bowl with Brady at the helm and those same receivers. I'm not saying they're the end-all when it comes to the deciding factor in a game, but I think that the chances of winning usually drop if the starting signal caller goes down. That's not to say that a back-up QB doesn't have the ability to lead the team to victory (see Kevin Kolb in Philly), but not all back-up QBs really can. If they were that good, they'd be starting somewhere else. Admittedly, I still feel rather comfortable with Troy under center if Flacco goes down (knock on wood) but in the end, the starting QB gives their team the best chances of winning.

[AwakenTheDemon]

[quote name='Wacco4Flacco' date='27 September 2009 - 06:44 PM' timestamp='1254095057' post='242989']
Ok ill campare to NFL ready?
Joe Montana was the 49ers
John Elway was the Broncos
Tom Brady is the Pats
And now Joe Flacco is the Ravens
[/quote]

Do you read? And how is "Joe Flacco the Ravens"? Last I checked, McGahee had 5 rushing TDs. Last I checked they had GREAT defenders in Ed Reed and Ray Lewis, keeping them in the game for the past few years (especially during their Super Bowl run, although Reed was not in the NFL then). If I had to say ANYONE [i]was[/i] the Ravens (which is a stretch), I'd say it was Ray Lewis. Joe is a nice addition the past two years, the spark the offense needed. But he is not the Ravens. If you were trying to disprove what was said earlier, I suggest you bring up players who are not QBs, seeing as he stated that they are the only position he could see being compared as such.

[flynismo]

[quote name='Slick' date='27 September 2009 - 08:48 PM' timestamp='1254098915' post='243092']
I remember a time when the Patriots receiving corp was not well respected. I also remember them winning the super bowl with Brady at the helm and those same receivers. I'm not saying they're the end-all when it comes to the deciding factor in a game, but I think that the chances of winning usually drop if the starting signal caller goes down. That's not to say that a back-up QB doesn't have the ability to lead the team to victory (see Kevin Kolb in Philly), but not all back-up QBs really can. If they were that good, they'd be starting somewhere else. Admittedly, I still feel rather comfortable with Troy under center if Flacco goes down (knock on wood) but in the end, the starting QB gives their team the best chances of winning.
[/quote]


I don't think we're on the same page....I'm not debating that the QB is the single most influential player on the field, I'm just saying that the QB needs a great supporting cast to be great himself.

That said, Brady also had a killer offensive line and excellent support from the ground attack.
In basketball, your teammates have much less impact on an individual's performance....which I think is what started the whole discussion.

[flynismo]

[quote name='AwakenTheDemon' date='27 September 2009 - 09:21 PM' timestamp='1254100871' post='243124']
Do you read? And how is "Joe Flacco the Ravens"? Last I checked, McGahee had 5 rushing TDs. Last I checked they had GREAT defenders in Ed Reed and Ray Lewis, keeping them in the game for the past few years (especially during their Super Bowl run, although Reed was not in the NFL then). If I had to say ANYONE [i]was[/i] the Ravens (which is a stretch), I'd say it was Ray Lewis. Joe is a nice addition the past two years, the spark the offense needed. But he is not the Ravens. If you were trying to disprove what was said earlier, I suggest you bring up players who are not QBs, seeing as he stated that they are the only position he could see being compared as such.
[/quote]


Yeah, safe to say that Ray Lewis "is the Ravens" and not Flacco, but I ignored that just for the sake of argument.

[JEEPercreepermd]

Geeze I stopped watching that game when it was 13-0 Steelers lmao.

[Slick]

[quote name='flynismo' date='27 September 2009 - 09:46 PM' timestamp='1254102408' post='243149']
I don't think we're on the same page....I'm not debating that the QB is the single most influential player on the field, I'm just saying that the QB needs a great supporting cast to be great himself.

That said, Brady also had a killer offensive line and excellent support from the ground attack.
In basketball, your teammates have much less impact on an individual's performance....which I think is what started the whole discussion.
[/quote]

Yeah we're arguing different things lol. You're right, a good quarterback can only flourish if he is supported by talented people. What I basically meant is out of the starters, the drop-off in performance is most apparent with the QB position. A QB can make his receivers look good, but receivers can't make up the slack if their QB can't perform. That is why the impact is greater if your starter goes down. As you said though, the QB can't perform if there's no protection or if the offense is one-dimensional. However if you lose a single lineman, the protection still can hold up enough since the rest of the starters would be available. We're arguing semantics here really, but we pretty much agree with each other lol.

[flynismo]

[quote name='JEEPercreepermd' date='27 September 2009 - 09:56 PM' timestamp='1254103015' post='243159']
Geeze I stopped watching that game when it was 13-0 Steelers lmao.
[/quote]

Yeah, I stopped at that point too. Oooppss.

[flynismo]

[quote name='Slick' date='27 September 2009 - 10:06 PM' timestamp='1254103608' post='243173']
Yeah we're arguing different things lol. You're right, a good quarterback can only flourish if he is supported by talented people. What I basically meant is out of the starters, the drop-off in performance is most apparent with the QB position. A QB can make his receivers look good, but receivers can't make up the slack if their QB can't perform. That is why the impact is greater if your starter goes down. As you said though, the QB can't perform if there's no protection or if the offense is one-dimensional. However if you lose a single lineman, the protection still can hold up enough since the rest of the starters would be available. We're arguing semantics here really, but we pretty much agree with each other lol.
[/quote]


Wow, only here can two people argue over something they agree on....
We are an ornery crew!