'running Up The Score'

[MKdave]

Most of you are probably aware of the criticism that the patriots have received for running up the score. personally, i believe the complaints are ridiculous, mostly from bitter fans and coaches looking for a brief repreive from humilliation.

I think if a team is 30 points better than you on sunday, then the score should show that. a win is a win, a loss is a loss. its not like point difference is used as a tiebreaker as it is in some sports. An embarassing defeat isnt any less embarassing if the opposing team takes pity on you and eases off in the late stages. That is even more embarassing IMO.

I was wondering what others think about it, given that we are rarely comprehensively beaten.

[BrownsFan]

I see both sides to it personally. One the one hand, your job is to go out there and play your hardest for 60 minutes and do the best you can. If that means scoring 52 points, then that just means the opposing team's defense needs to learn how to stop you and should of came more prepared.

On the other hand, rubbing it in could be viewed as unsportsmanlike.. I suppose it just depends on the individual. At the same time however (and I can't find the article just yet but heard it on the radio so I'll assume it's true), apparently Redskins defensive players were talking a little trash before the game began or during last week so when you do that, be prepared to take your whooping if it comes to that.

[JonM229]

Remember the good old days when the Patriots were the good guys and everybody liked them?

[BrownsFan]

Hah, no kidding. How times have changed.

[MKdave]

Remember the good old days when the Patriots were the good guys and everybody liked them?

I think i prefer the new 'Mean' Patriots. I like to think of the ravens as Mean.

[JonM229]

We've always been a mean team. That's what I've always loved about us. Although, it was our D that was the bad guys...having opposing offenses giving up in the 4th quarter. That was great.

[thewarden86]

Personally, this is not what I believe to be good sportsmanship and not the kind I would teach my child. There's a time when "you've made your point" and you can stop "beating a dead horse." I believe it is true here. IMO.

[Raven07]

i'll put it in the way Deion Put it. imagine its 100 years from now, and the Patriot players that are playing now are retired and gone from teh NFL. all that would remain is the Stats from this current team. THats the Only thing that will surive throughout the years and have people saying, 100 years from now "Dang! they were a GREAT team" based on their numbers they set, in their time now and present day. so i cant blame theme scoring TD after TD, and going for it on 4th down. and as Deion said "Coach, As Long as their is a Scoreboard up, your Supposed to Score points right?"

[thewarden86]

i'll put it in the way Deion Put it. imagine its 100 years from now, and the Patriot players that are playing now are retired and gone from teh NFL. all that would remain is the Stats from this current team. THats the Only thing that will surive throughout the years and have people saying, 100 years from now "Dang! they were a GREAT team" based on their numbers they set, in their time now and present day. so i cant blame theme scoring TD after TD, and going for it on 4th down. and as Deion said "Coach, As Long as their is a Scoreboard up, your Supposed to Score points right?"

Man, I just can't agree with that. I wonder if Deion can name (off the top of his head) even one player from that Bears team that holds the record for running up the score. That was only around 50 years ago. It's called running up the score because generally even though plenty of teams in plenty of games have had the opportunity to do it, but haven't. Why? Courtesy. There's no need for it. You won the stinking game. Why would you do anything but try to run the clock out? 99.99% of the rest of the teams in the NFL (including teams from past years) choose to just run out the clock when the game is won.., year in and year out. It's poor sportsmanship. If it was generally conceived as "normal" we wouldn't even be discussing it.

[Raven07]

i suppose thats why Joe Gibbs (at the end of the game) ran into the locker room, instead of shaking hands with Belichick

[theFRANCHISE]

My take on it is, it becomes gamesmanship to continue to score if there's enough time on the clock and a small enough margin of victory to justify adding points for comfort.

But it becomes downright unsportsmanlike to do so for the sake of doing so when the conditions don't justify it.

Although the acceptable conditions for gamesmanship is purely subjective, most coaches would have common sense in determining whether it's morally (and professionally) acceptable to add another touchdown to a moderate or significant lead.

Yes, I understand the school of thought that if the Patriots can score quickly in a certain period of time, the opposing team can score just as quickly at any given moment. That's how late-game comebacks happen.

And in following that school of thought, it can be said that the Patriots are simply trying to avoid a repeat of the AFC Championship game, where they commanded a significant halftime lead over the Colts, only to end up losing in a display of late-game theatrics by Peyton Manning & Co., simply because they had let up and (in their minds) allowed the Colts back in the game.

At the same time...running up the score seems downright arrogant in the context of the videotaping scandal. Bill Belichick's actions have been dissected by the media since the investigation brought into question the Patriots' legacy, and the scandal was portrayed as Belichick thumbing his nose at the NFL brass, his peers, and even the integrity of the sport itself.

In other words, Bill Belichick is downright arrogant. And his running up the score could potentially be an extension of his arrogance.

But subscribing to SOLELY that belief would be playing devil's advocate in a situation where not all the facts will ever be uncovered.

Instead, looking solely at the moral issue here, running up the score, in my mind, is unprofessional, but cannot be regulated, and will ultimately remain a part of the game.

As many writers have said, these coaches and players are paid to WIN. If an opposing defense allows the offense to have their way with them, then that's the breaks, unfortunately.

There is no clear-cut right or wrong in this case, and it's sad, because even in my capacity as a role model for my young nephew & niece, I don't know how to explain a situation like this in a couple of years when sports hopefully take their interest.

But then again, there's bigger issues in sports than the Patriots running up the score, sadly.

[ReED jucate]

My take on it is this. If you don't like the other team scoring then maybe you should stop them. It looks like the Pats are running drills on half of these teams. What do you want them to do, get to the 1 yard line and then take a knee and turn it over on downs? Like I said; If you don't like them scoring (which is the point of the game) then maybe the team should play some defense.

[jollylobster]

I can appreciate teaching your youngsters the value of "good sportsmanship"...but, keep the Mercy Rules in the little leagues.

These are highly paid professional athletes who's JOB requires that they give 100% of their best effort for a full 60 minutes of a regulation NFL game! I expect that's the mantra the Ravens will have all this week leading up to next week's MNF.

And, that arrpoach can work! Take the Eagles as an example...they NEVER quit in last night's game! They didn't buy into any of the hype and came committed to that "100% for 60 minutes" theory...and almost came away with what could have been the greatest upset in NFL history. It was one heck of a battle! As a Pats' fan, all I can say is: "Whew!"

But, if a team quits on itself after 35-40 minutes and just can't wait for the carnage to end...shame on them! They don't get paid to whine and cry about "poor sportsmanship", "running up the score" or "lack of respect"...anymore than the victor gets paid to take a knee, punt it away or kick gratuitous field goals.

Certain things just have to be earned!

[Tiz]

i'll put it in the way Deion Put it. imagine its 100 years from now, and the Patriot players that are playing now are retired and gone from teh NFL. all that would remain is the Stats from this current team. THats the Only thing that will surive throughout the years and have people saying, 100 years from now "Dang! they were a GREAT team" based on their numbers they set, in their time now and present day. so i cant blame theme scoring TD after TD, and going for it on 4th down. and as Deion said "Coach, As Long as their is a Scoreboard up, your Supposed to Score points right?"

That's BS coming from the king of all arrogance and if you believe that then you are one gullible person. Thanks to programs like NFL Films and the ability to archive newspaper clippings we are smart enough to know that despite how great a player somoene like Joe Montana was that despite his stats he still was a **** to his own teammate Steve Young. Just like we all know that despite how great Barry Sanders stats were and that Herman Moore put up back to back 100 catch seasons that Herman wasn't that dominating of a player and that Barry Sanders still walked away from the game due to reasons beyond inability to play. So why are we to assume that the only thing people will be able to look up or recall about the Pats is just the stats they put up.

[Tiz]

IMO, if Bellichek feels there's no wrong in keeping his starters in late in the game and still running 4 wr sets and and a no huddle despite a 3 TD lead then obviously he doens't have any complaints if a defender taking an unnecessary roughtness penalty by going helmet to helmet with brady. After all kicking a man while he's down is kicking a man while he's down no matter how it's sliced.

[jollylobster]

IMO, if Bellichek feels there's no wrong in keeping his starters in late in the game and still running 4 wr sets and and a no huddle despite a 3 TD lead then obviously he doens't have any complaints if a defender taking an unnecessary roughtness penalty by going helmet to helmet with brady. After all kicking a man while he's down is kicking a man while he's down no matter how it's sliced.

I'm certain Belichick is aware of the risks...since everyone in the entire country complains about it ad nauseum, week in and week out.

And, this is not a case of "...kicking a man while he's down..." it's a professional football GAME! Losing hurts...and losing big hurts even worse...and getting creamed might just totally demoralize a team. Perhaps THAT'S the point?

[Tiz]

I'm certain Belichick is aware of the risks...since everyone in the entire country complains about it ad nauseum, week in and week out.

And, this is not a case of "...kicking a man while he's down..." it's a professional football GAME! Losing hurts...and losing big hurts even worse...and getting creamed might just totally demoralize a team. Perhaps THAT'S the point?

So when Bellichek pulled their 2nd string QB because he threw an incompletion late in the game when NE was up by 3 scores and put in Brady and never look back isn't trying to kick a team/man while their down. Point blank he has no respect for anyone else so why should he be shown respect by other teams. As was said on ESPN, had this happened in an era where the QB's aren't protected to the umpteenth degree you'd have seen someone like Butkus, Lambert, Etc take out Brady.

You are also sadly mistaken if you think NE is trying to demoralize other teams. They are playing for records that's all and it's obvious in the fact that they don't utilize Maroney despite how talented he is as a runner....

[ReED jucate]

So when Bellichek pulled their 2nd string QB because he threw an incompletion late in the game when NE was up by 3 scores and put in Brady and never look back isn't trying to kick a team/man while their down. Point blank he has no respect for anyone else so why should he be shown respect by other teams. As was said on ESPN, had this happened in an era where the QB's aren't protected to the umpteenth degree you'd have seen someone like Butkus, Lambert, Etc take out Brady.

You are also sadly mistaken if you think NE is trying to demoralize other teams. They are playing for records that's all and it's obvious in the fact that they don't utilize Maroney despite how talented he is as a runner....

NE does what it takes to win plain and simple thats why they gave the ball to Maroney last night on a 1st and goal to score the TD and not a Brady pass. They are playing to win and records are just some bonus motivation, what else are you gonna fight for until the playoffs come? I'm not a NE fan but I can't help but watch how well they execute every play and operate as one unit on the field. I wish we had a playbook as sophisticated as theirs.

[jollylobster]

Tom Brady stated that when the Pats take the field it's their intention to "kill" their opponent. He further implied that...if that's NOT your intention...you're in the wrong occupation.

The Pats don't substitute to have their back-up QB cough up an interception. If you're given an opportunity and you screw up, it's unacceptable. And, the object of the game id not to provide reps to Maroney...or Moss...or anybody else in particular. The object is to win the game as efficiently as possible.

And, they have a game plan coming into a game that'd not necessarily meant to please their opponent...nor their opponents fans. If that was the mission, they'd just hand their play book over to the opposition in advance and have them pick out what specific plays...and in what order and when...they'd like the Pats to use those against them.

Their mission is not to do anything more than to win each game...one game at a time...the best way they're able.

How does that differ from your teams mission?

[Raven07]

i personally feel that everyone's goal in the NFL is to go into each and every single game a "kill" their opponent score wise. it just does happen that way, for the most part of it. the Object is not to see how many points we can score against our opponent, the main and ultimate Objective...is to Win the Game thats it.

[jollylobster]

Raven...I know where you're coming from. That may, very well, represents the popular objective, but it's not necessarily reflective of the Patriots objectives.

They want to win EVERY game...as efficiently as possible. They strive to put forth the best effort they possibly can for the full 60 minutes...period! They really like the taste of "blood"! They try to achieve perfection on every snap. And, the closer they come to being able to do that...the closer they are to achieving their objectives.

They've achieved only ONE, so far this year: clinch the Division Championship, as early as possible. They're next goal is to secure home field throughout the playoffs..and that's well underway.

Knock it if you like...but, so far, it's a successful formula!

That team/organization-wise mentality may very well explain why they already have 3 Lombardi's...and going for a 4th in only 7 years.

Why didn't they "run up the score" in previous years? Well..it wasn't because they weren't trying. They just weren't blessed with the talent they now have.

There's an old adage: "Those who can...DO! Those who can't...teach!" In your case...and you're not alone...it's "preach"!

[theFRANCHISE]

Raven...I know where you're coming from. That may, very well, represents the popular objective, but it's not necessarily reflective of the Patriots objectives.

They want to win EVERY game...as efficiently as possible. They strive to put forth the best effort they possibly can for the full 60 minutes...period! They really like the taste of "blood"! They try to achieve perfection on every snap. And, the closer they come to being able to do that...the closer they are to achieving their objectives.

Hmm...you say that as if there's teams who DON'T want to win games, who DON'T strive for efficiency, and who DON'T put forth their best effort.

On that first point, yes, EVERY team, believe it or not, wants to win games. Even the current bottom-feeders of the NFL, who are in prime position for high draft picks, want to win, simply because pride is more important than a slot in the draft. Talent can be found anywhere in the draft, so it's of no consequence for a losing team to miss out on the 1st overall pick, especially given the failure rate of many 1st overall picks (based on position).

On that second point, I believe every team strives for efficiency, as that is the only way to win games (besides luck...which is RARE). If you're not playing efficiently, that obviously means something's not clicking. Hence the weekly practices and film reviews, etc. So I believe that, in the methodology that NFL teams have adopted in game preparation, all teams strive for efficiency. Otherwise, they wouldn't be killing themselves with hours of film study and gameplanning.

And as for the last point, although it SEEMS as if some teams give up altogether and don't play all 60 minutes, I doubt that you can say even New England hasn't taken it easy a bit towards the waning moments of a game that's already well in hand. Yes, the Patriots continue to score in those moments, and they may continue to somewhat hold opposing offenses at bay. But the human body is not designed to go full bore for extended periods of time like that. Fatigue sets in, and the physical effects begin to override the mental. And even a team as "superhuman" as the Patriots are bound to take it easy at that point.

Although I respect that you seem to tell it like it is, I'll admit that there is a condescending, almost arrogant nature to your responses, bordering on the tone of sensationalist journalism. Please keep that in mind. After all, you know what they say about karma...and I learned that lesson all too well...

[Tiz]

Tom Brady stated that when the Pats take the field it's their intention to "kill" their opponent. He further implied that...if that's NOT your intention...you're in the wrong occupation.

which means that he's not against a team blitzing a 'scrub' taken him out and then going on to win the game similiar to how Pitt beat Cincy in the playoff game a couple years ago....

[jollylobster]

which means that he's not against a team blitzing a 'scrub' taken him out and then going on to win the game similiar to how Pitt beat Cincy in the playoff game a couple years ago....

Tiz...I don't believe what I said implied that as a viable option, at all. Here's why not: Do you, yourself, really believe that some team, coach or player is going to take it upon themself/themselves to make the conscious decision to intentionally take-out one of the greatest QB's in NFL history? Do you feel that "...that end justifies the means"? Does this "eye-for-an-eye" theory equate running up a football game score...with intentially trying to maim an opposing player for, perhaps, his entire career...or worse? Who takes the heat?...the player?...the coach?...organization?...Roger Goodell? Personally...I like blaming Man-genius for EVERYTHING these days! Gonna be one heck of a handshake coming up in a few weeks, I tell ya! I wouldn't miss it for the world!

I think the current players on the field happen to be smarter than wanting the infamy of being that "hit man". First of all, they'd never again suit up in the NFL, that's for sure! That player might not even make it off the field alive! They, the conspirators...would NOT be viewed as "heroes", you can believe that! EVERYONE understands how much heat a coach would be under if one of his players was responsible for popping Brady a cheap shot! It wouldn't just be the player that got fined...or immediately suspended for freakin' ever...heads would roll throughout the entire NFL!

Yet, there's always that concern. Tom's aware of all the "chat-chat" that's going around...everywhere...in every chatroom, forum and media sportscast. How could he not be? He doesn't, exactly, live a sheltered life or dwell in a cave! He is a Man About Town! And, it's 24/7 all about everything the Pats are doing WRONG...and, they've been doing everything just fine. You have to have a tremendous amount of respect and trust in your O/L and backfield support if you're Tom Brady these days!

Tiz! I'm just glad YOU'RE not strappin' it on this weekend...GEECH! Poor Tom wouldn't stand a chance! His first three-step drop would be his last! HA!

[jollylobster]

Franchise...how do you do? You can call me "Jolly"...or "Lobster"...or worse, whatever? You, certain, put a lot of thought into your "intro" so I'll try to do likewise with my humble response and try not to insult you with any "sensationalism". Deal?

Please don't assume that I'm implying for an instant that the Patriots are the only team out there that's capable of setting goals and doing what's necessary to achieve them...not at all! Every teams prepares for, essentially, the same things...in somewhat different fashions. That, after all, is the easy part...we all set goals! It's the achieving them that's the hard part. Some teams just seem to have a better success formula than others...and that's, generally, reflected as part of their record.

Another essential is, of course, talent asquisitions, either from the draft or some form or other of the "trade route" variety. And, there's incredible talent everywhere you look in the NFL. Personally, I think the Pats organization has done everything they possibly can to attract tremendous talent. And, I believe the organization and coaching staff has done a superb job of having each player on the roster continually strive to become the best player they can possibly be. Again, I believe the Pats' record attests to that. But, I'm not in a position to question any other teams "success rate" in that area. I think that opinion should be left up to that team's fan base.

And, every team can get "down", no doubt! It takes a lot of dedication to build the body and mind strength to be able to fight through the fatigue and overcome it. A lot of that comes from the player's heart...and even more comes from guidance from an exceptionally trusted and respected coaching staff and ownership. Our team has struggled, on more than one occasion. There were times when things have been pretty freaking' bleak with time ticking away! But, somehow, the team found the "enthusiasm" required to fight back and triumph!

And, when asked how they did it...they, to a man, credit their organization, coaching staff and their fellow teammates...and even their staunch fans! It makes everybody proud! Me, too!