4-3 Defense

[#1 D]

Hey guys,
for those of you who already know this, then sorry but for those of you who didn't know, the ravens are most likely going to switch to the 4-3 defense this year.

[url="http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/sp.ravenspreview0823,0,671721.story"]http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/sp.ravenspreview0823,0,671721.story[/url]

The last time we used this defense was our superbowl year and the year after, so it'll be interesting to see how we'll do with it again. Ray seems excited to have it back, so hopefully it can mean dominance like we used to have back in the old days of 2000.

I think its exciting to have the classic 4-man rush back, with gregg and ngata both matching up vs the interior linemen, with suggs and pryce getting pressure on the ends. Compliment that with a speedier, quicker ray and a young fleet-footed Tavares gooden as well as McClain/Barnes/J.Johnson/Burgess man the third LB role, we can have one of the best front-seven's in the NFL. not to mention if we can drop a linebacker with only ray and tavares and add that number to the secondary, then that can mean success for our secondary.

[FerrariFan87]

Yeah, with our D-Line rotation and the amount of pass rushers we have, it makes perfect sense to switch back to a 4-3

[MKdave]

I'm slowly coming round to this move. The one thing is that I think we should start McClain at end opposite Suggs. I don't know that Pryce, at 290 pounds and 34 years of age, still has the legs to bring the heat, something that's absolutely crucial for a 4-3 end. If we can't pass rush from the end positions we're going to get torn apart all year.
McClain I believe was an end at Syracuse, so he can play the position. Plus the more the we can get this guy on the field, the more plays he can make, on the evidence of last year. Kruger is also a possibilty there.

[bce086]

Rex is VERY bitter about not getting the HC job here in Baltimore... although rightfully so. He is going to take this game very seriously, and to be honest, I hope we do too. He is out to prove a point, and I hope he has the decency to not be sending his players out for our players heads.

[#1 D]

[quote name='MKdave' date='24 August 2009 - 09:38 AM' timestamp='1251121133' post='222948']
I'm slowly coming round to this move. The one thing is that I think we should start McClain at end opposite Suggs. I don't know that Pryce, at 290 pounds and 34 years of age, still has the legs to bring the heat, something that's absolutely crucial for a 4-3 end. If we can't pass rush from the end positions we're going to get torn apart all year.
McClain I believe was an end at Syracuse, so he can play the position. Plus the more the we can get this guy on the field, the more plays he can make, on the evidence of last year. Kruger is also a possibilty there.
[/quote]

I'm pretty sure Pryce still has a couple years in him...he's still a physical freak, who can almost keep up with our running backs in sprints (from what i've read in previous articles and quotes of him). but if he cant get it done, we have kruger, mcclain, and barnes to man the job, all of whom are talented passrushers.

[JEEPercreepermd]

What Mattison is doing isn't a whole lot different than what they have done the past few years, exception is that Suggs is on the line every down, so technically it's a 4-3 but it's not really a traditional 4-3. Either way this defense is going to be excellent the Ravens have played the 4-3,3-4,46, they will have success this year too

[Purple Pain]

I'd rather stick with what is working. The defense is just fine with the 3-4 set. Like another poster said, i'm not sure we have another proven DE to take over for Pryce who is getting up there in age and slowing down. Maybe stick with it this year and next year make the change.

[beetus]

Moving back to a 4-3 is fine with me, but the Raven's D is so chaotic and unpredictable that its hard to define what our base is. We are very deep and both D-line and Linebacker, so I can see us being like the Eagles or Giants with the constant rotation and bringing in fresh guys to keep the offense confused.

[neepo13]

[quote name='#1 D' date='24 August 2009 - 09:47 AM' timestamp='1251121643' post='222955']
I'm pretty sure Pryce still has a couple years in him...he's still a physical freak, who can almost keep up with our running backs in sprints (from what i've read in previous articles and quotes of him). but if he cant get it done, we have kruger, mcclain, and barnes to man the job, all of whom are talented passrushers.
[/quote]

I am not really worried about Pryce. True, he's lost a step but if you watch any game last year, offensive lineman still feel the need to hold him on just about every play, so he's doing something right.


[quote name='Purple Pain' date='24 August 2009 - 10:32 AM' timestamp='1251124366' post='222981']
I'd rather stick with what is working. The defense is just fine with the 3-4 set. Like another poster said, i'm not sure we have another proven DE to take over for Pryce who is getting up there in age and slowing down. Maybe stick with it this year and next year make the change.
[/quote]


Whats working is in the eye of the beholder. Rex's scheme worked in some situations and failed miserably in others. Its not flawless. I'd even be willing to argue that our players made it seem better then it really was.

I dont want to switch to a vanilla defense but we do need to get back to the basics a little bit.

[FlaccoFlicker]

[quote name='neepo13' date='24 August 2009 - 11:24 AM' timestamp='1251127446' post='223007']
I am not really worried about Pryce. True, he's lost a step but if you watch any game last year, offensive lineman still feel the need to hold him on just about every play, so he's doing something right.





Whats working is in the eye of the beholder. Rex's scheme worked in some situations and failed miserably in others. Its not flawless. I'd even be willing to argue that our players made it seem better then it really was.

I dont want to switch to a vanilla defense but we do need to get back to the basics a little bit.
[/quote]
neepo your sig is brilliant i love it.i need to find me one lol

[lowrider]

Not surprised about this change to the defense if it happens. Mattison was trying to apply more pressure with the dline. This won't change anything about our defense. We will still blitz and change schemes. Our defense will still be dominant. Mattison just needs to make sure he uses our young linebackers. We have so many that are excellant in pass rush. We could apply so much pressure with them without blitzing the secondary.

[YABOY]

this is a stupid move i wish we still had rex

[lowrider]

[quote name='YABOY' date='24 August 2009 - 01:59 PM' timestamp='1251136795' post='223080']
this is a stupid move i wish we still had rex
[/quote]
You act as if defenses have never been successful under this defense. This isn't going to change how good our defense is. You obviously don't know what you are talking about

[Ed_Reed20]

How is it a stupid move? The team's base defense in 2006 was the 4-3? Remember what they do that year? The same thing goes for 2000. People need to realize that not only does the team have the personnel for the 4-3 this year but they have been very successful running it before.

[beetus]

I'm almost positive that the Ravens D was a 3-4 base in 2006, we probably had the best LB core that year (Suggs, Scott, Lewis, Thomas). As for Rex's departure, we still had a dominant D after the departures of both Marvin Lewis and Mike Nolan, this will be no different.

[RavensClaw52]

I could care less what we decide to run, we could run a 2-4-5 all season and still dominate

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='beetus' date='24 August 2009 - 02:41 PM' timestamp='1251139304' post='223090']
I'm almost positive that the Ravens D was a 3-4 base in 2006, we probably had the best LB core that year (Suggs, Scott, Lewis, Thomas). As for Rex's departure, we still had a dominant D after the departures of both Marvin Lewis and Mike Nolan, this will be no different.
[/quote]

The Ravens used a 3-4 in 2006 but the base D was a 4-3. Suggs and Pryce were the DEs whiles Ngata and Gregg were the DTs. The LBs were Ray, Bart and Adalius.

[William Murderface]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' date='24 August 2009 - 02:18 PM' timestamp='1251141529' post='223099']
The Ravens used a 3-4 in 2006 but the base D was a 4-3. Suggs and Pryce were the DEs whiles Ngata and Gregg were the DTs. The LBs were Ray, Bart and Adalius.
[/quote]

Yep base D in 2006 was a 4-3. Anyway the base D doesnt really matter. We can say we will be a 4-3 but because of "organized chaos" (I hate that term by the way) we wont be in our Base D that often. Bottomline, with the players we have on D we really can't go wrong as we are deep and talented every with no real obvious weak spots.

[MKdave]

[quote name='William Murderface' date='24 August 2009 - 08:25 PM' timestamp='1251141925' post='223101']
Yep base D in 2006 was a 4-3. Anyway the base D doesnt really matter. We can say we will be a 4-3 but because of "organized chaos" (I hate that term by the way)[b] we wont be in our Base D that often.[/b] Bottomline, with the players we have on D we really can't go wrong as we are deep and talented every with no real obvious weak spots.
[/quote]

Mattinson has said we're going to be playing alot more base. That's why this is even an issue.

[Ravens Lover]

Using the 4-3 will I think, free Ray up some which will be good. But I liked all the complex blitzes they used with the 3-4.

[Bullrush]

I'm looking forward to this. We have so many guys that could put up monster numbers in the 4-3, it's a perfect fit. Suggs, Ngata, Lewis, Pryce, Barnes, Kruger etc. and the list goes on.

[bce086]

It only makes sense to atleast give the 4-3 look a go. We got back Kelly Greg, and with Ngata next to him in the middle offensive lines are going to crumble. Plus, Bart is gone, and no, I am not one of the guys who says we are doomed, I feel he is a product of the system, BUT good at doing his job. With Bart being gone we can go to the 4-3 and not place so much pressure on Gooden right off the get go. It only makes sense.

They say don't change what's not broken, well this is just an upgrade for us. Kelly Gregg is essentially replacing Bart Scott. Our D is gunna be a force to recken with. I think those two will clog the middle and we'll get more pressure on the opposing QBs this year.

Not to mention Ray Ray can run around like a banshee being the field general out there in the middle of the field chasing people down.

[go4ravens]

The only issue i have with the move to a 4-3 is that it puts suggs on the line, and i feel like he's a playmaking linebacker. It'd be ideal to see a rotation from a 4-3 to a 3-4 depending on the situation.

[MKdave]

[quote name='bce086' date='24 August 2009 - 09:22 PM' timestamp='1251145336' post='223114']
It only makes sense to atleast give the 4-3 look a go. We got back Kelly Greg, and with Ngata next to him in the middle offensive lines are going to crumble. Plus, Bart is gone, and no, I am not one of the guys who says we are doomed, I feel he is a product of the system, BUT good at doing his job. With Bart being gone we can go to the 4-3 and not place so much pressure on Gooden right off the get go. It only makes sense.

They say don't change what's not broken, well this is just an upgrade for us. Kelly Gregg is essentially replacing Bart Scott. Our D is gunna be a force to recken with. [b]I think those two will clog the middle and we'll get more pressure on the opposing QBs this year. [/b]

Not to mention Ray Ray can run around like a banshee being the field general out there in the middle of the field chasing people down.
[/quote]
That's not how a 4-3 works. The DTs in a 4-3 are supposed to penetrate, not fill gaps. Ngata will have 0 problem with this, but I'm not sure how natural it will come to Gregg. If the tackles get no penetration, then you're just gonna be giving QBs all day to throw and running backs 3 or 4 yards for free on every carry.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='MKdave' date='24 August 2009 - 04:42 PM' timestamp='1251146533' post='223116']
That's not how a 4-3 works. The DTs in a 4-3 are supposed to penetrate, not fill gaps. Ngata will have 0 problem with this, but I'm not sure how natural it will come to Gregg. If the tackles get no penetration, then you're just gonna be giving QBs all day to throw and running backs 3 or 4 yards for free on every carry.
[/quote]

I remember Gregg being pretty good at rushing the passer in 06. I think he should get good penetration which will help Ngata too.

[reediddy]

I think the loss of Rex will be pretty much forgotten by Week 4, our base defense will be spectacular. Like everyone said, we ran this defense in 2000, and now we may even have better personnel defensively. Two of the best nosetackles in the league, excellent pass-rushers, fast and physical LB corps, deep and talented secondary. In terms of Rex Ryan being angry at not receiving the Ravens HC job, I'm actually glad. He's much more of a defensive-focused coach, and our offense wouldn't flourish as much under him. Harbaugh is the perfect coach for this team, he brings the perfect mentality. I don't like how Rex is talking smack over there in New York I hope we embarrass those guys

[MKdave]

[quote name='reediddy' date='24 August 2009 - 10:23 PM' timestamp='1251149037' post='223129']
I think the loss of Rex will be pretty much forgotten by Week 4, our base defense will be spectacular. Like everyone said, we ran this defense in 2000, and now we may even have better personnel defensively. [b]Two of the best nosetackles in the league[/b], excellent pass-rushers, fast and physical LB corps, deep and talented secondary. In terms of Rex Ryan being angry at not receiving the Ravens HC job, I'm actually glad. He's much more of a defensive-focused coach, and our offense wouldn't flourish as much under him. Harbaugh is the perfect coach for this team, he brings the perfect mentality. I don't like how Rex is talking smack over there in New York I hope we embarrass those guys
[/quote]

But great nose tackles don't necessarily make great defensive tackles.

[Ravensfan23]

I think both gregg and Ngata will do just fine a 4-3 set. It might actually make Ngata even better, if anyone can believe that.

My reason for saying that is exactly what MK said. In a 4-3 you focus on getting push from your DTs. Before Rex just had Ngata being a scape eater. He would try to occupy Olinemen to get a rusher free to the QB.

In a 4-3 he will now have to use his strenght and quickness more. Think about it. If Ngata can just absolutely dominate and man handle people in the run game, he should be able to take a slower OG, who is already on his heels and push him back.

I think with the speed and talent we have on defense, it won't matter what formation we run.

Landry will get 100 tackles.

[MKdave]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' date='24 August 2009 - 11:31 PM' timestamp='1251153081' post='223150']
I think both gregg and Ngata will do just fine a 4-3 set. It might actually make Ngata even better, if anyone can believe that.

My reason for saying that is exactly what MK said. In a 4-3 you focus on getting push from your DTs. Before Rex just had Ngata being a scape eater. He would try to occupy Olinemen to get a rusher free to the QB.

In a 4-3 he will now have to use his strenght and quickness more. Think about it. If Ngata can just absolutely dominate and man handle people in the run game, he should be able to take a slower OG, who is already on his heels and push him back.

I think with the speed and talent we have on defense, it won't matter what formation we run.

[/quote]
Yeah, I really think it'll be a good move for Ngata, but does him getting 10 sacks (which he could) make the defense better than him taking up 2 guys on every play? Maybe, but Gregg has to do it too. And I think the defense is better with Gregg holding 2 guys than shooting the gap.
I guess there's alway to possibility of playing Gregg at nose tackle, and then Ngata at under tackle, so he can shoot the gaps while Gregg cloggs them. A little bit unconventional, but something to think about.

[CorvusCorax]

I'm still understanding formations and such. Is there a good website to learn and understand all the formations?