sibelius

Honestly if I'm the Vikings I'm more attracted to Johnson because I don't have to change my playbook. 

31 minutes ago, ravensdan said:

I always kind of laugh when certain fans get on a player for accepting life changing money they have worked their a off for their whole life. You take it and don't look back. Players are very unlikely to get a second shot at that kind of money. 

there goes that "fans" language again, whatever that means.

speaking for myself and myself only, my issue is not that Kruger took the money, it's the comment about being "misused." That's like saying if I can convince a company to make me their CEO and pay me the market rate for the position, it's their fault that I wasn't qualified and they should've given me mid-level management duties because obviously that's where I'm most effective...while continuing to pay me CEO money.

The company paid me for my potential, I didn't live up to it, so they fired me. I got my bonus check, they cut their losses. Nobody was "misused." 

5 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Whining? Sounds like a player wants to produce and is frustrated his dumpster fire team isn't putting him in the best position to do so. 

It's like Mike Wallace being possibly the best deep threat in the league playing with 2 noodle armed qbs, 9/10 ravens fans knew this and said hell yeah come on board and resurrect your career here, but for some reason when Paul Kruger is being asked to drop in coverage and stop the run we can't seem to take notice that he IS being misused? We blame him for being overpaid when the team overpaid a 1 dimensional player to be more than he really is? Makes no sense whatsoever. It's almost like some ravens fans are bitter that he left us and they WANT him to regress. Paul Kruger has shown no real evidence of not being a viable pass rusher, regardless of what he does As a full time OLB.

Mike Wallace is a prime example...he wanted more than he was worth, leveraged incompetent teams/FOs for it, washed out of both and is now in a good situation based on his actual market value. Yet he had nothing but good things to say in public about those orgs because grown ups understand they have nothing to gain by publically throwing others under the bus. 

The Browns were a mess before him and will be long after. He wanted to get paid and went to a garbage team to do it. The rest was inevitable. The top guys in this league adapt to their system and take ownership of their play. 

On bitterness...not really sure what you're driving at? I've never been clear on what people around here mean when they refer to this nebulous group of "fans." Are you referring to me? Who are these fans? Aren't we all fans? It's a mystery...or a straw man...who knows?

7 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Doesn't matter what he thinks lol, the TEAM paid him that, was he supposed to turn it down and say "offer me less because I'm not a good run defender"? That's on Cleveland for overpaying a known commodity for something he doesn't do very well.

Right but as with any player there's a level of realism that needs to come into play here. They both overpaid him and "misused" him, but I would argue they had to use him as a 3-down player—which he is not capable of and at no point in his stint here did he show the contrary—because the economics of any team can't justify paying a guy that much just to rush the passer.

Same thing happened to Doom. This situation was inevitable, he had to know that and the comment just feels like whining. 

13 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

He also claims that Cleveland of all teams was misusing him, wouldn't come as a surprise to anyone if it was true.

He's probably right but there is no such thing as as being "misused" when you're making 40 mil. If he thought the Browns were paying 40 mil for him to play on third down he was a fool. 

If I'm Ozzie I'm on a conference call with the Vikings and Josh Johnson's agent signing his praises. 

The only players on our roster we can afford to cut for pass rush help on the outside are Jeremy Butler, Carl Davis and Juice.

Give me a late career, Trevor Pryce type interior rusher and I'll bite, otherwise keep it moving. The only player I see being flat out replaced is Powers. Beyond that I think we're rolling with what we have. 

29 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

Yeah, but we've done it before with talent taken later. I think it's all about how much we like that player and if we want to risk it. It's a risk putting him on IR and it's a risk subjecting them to waivers to go on the PS or even keeping them on the 53. 

He's not going to IR, barring a setback. I agree. 

I think KC is going to be a baller for us but he's the kind of guy that's going to need to be schemed to get to the QB to get him off tackles/guards.

Judon is the type of guy that beat a tackle one-on-one. Correa's built to go against RBs/TEs. I think we'll see his real impact on the back half of games during the regular season. 

Run early, run often. Build passing game chemistry with short, intermediate throws and blow the lid off with play action. 

1 hour ago, Newsome is Awesome said:

Don't hold your breath.

I gotta tell you. I've watched a lot of players over the years, but rarely have seen one so much a fish out of water.

Having gone big against Big Stanley, must admit to this point he has not allowed the QB to be harassed.  I think it's an aggregation of things, but the QB has been clean in the pocket.   Elam on the other hand has a track record and tools that aren't fit for the position. What are you gonna do?

That's interesting, as you seem to be holding your breath to be proven right about everything except this football team being successful for whatever reason...under multiple aliases...for years now. 

Me? I'm gonna root for this team and go to war with the army we have. 

11 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

I don't know how much that'll play into the decision. Normally I'd agree, but I think roster spots will be nearly as valuable as cap space at this point in the season. I think it's very possible we cut Pitta and move on from him. Hardly a guarantee but easily a realistic possibility. 

Yea I agree. Cap is not an issue for us at this point but having a roster full of guys that we can count on to contribute is. Too many jobs/reputations on the line to hold on to guys for any other reason then that they are or can be counted on to be available—soon. 

So we're doing that thing where we let one poster take the whole discussion down a rabbit hole? I love it when we do this. Groundhog Day is one of my favorite films after all. 

What do we think the odds are Pitta makes the team with the news about his finger? Harbs does not seem pleased with him and, frankly, we don't really need him. Other than sentimental value...cutting Pitta would help clear the logjam.

2 minutes ago, Purple_City39 said:

They have to play within their perceived skill level though.  For example, in his prime Chris McAlister played close because he knew he could successfully jam the receiver and that he had the recovery speed to catch up if he didn't.  Samari Rolle played off because he knew speed wasn't his best friend but his reaction time to shorter routes was top notch.  A DC would be stupid to tell a CB to play at a specific distance if that CB isn't comfortable there.  

Now an argument can be made for the type of coverage being called.  It's extremely rare to see a CB close to the line on a cover 1 or cover 0 unless they are extremely confident in themselves.  So I can see arguments about Pees not calling enough over the top coverage that will allow CBs to play closer, but not that he's telling them to play x amount of yards off

I agree with this and I think it's a huge misconception that the coaches are "making" guys play off. Pees is on record encouraging Jimmy to press back in '13 and as soon as he did...voila he started making more plays. I think the quote was "he has a technique (read: press) that if we can just get him to use more he'll be more effective."

That said, I still don't think Pees has a clue how to get the most out of guys in the modern NFL. Exact same issue we had with Mattison except slightly better. 

35 minutes ago, Ravensfan23 said:

I know exactly what I don't like. These guys have daily access to training camp and they have no better views and opinions then we share here in the Flock. I would much rather create our own  broadcast team with some of the members here and just do a podcast of breaking down the game live. 

I also feel those guys have a responsibility to educate the casual fan on the game more than just highlights. But that's a pet peeve I have about the entire industry. 

But all in all it just seems like they don't know the team nor the game. When they credited Mallett for throwing Aiken open on the TD I was done. Mallett was late on the throw, Aiken was wide open and the ball was behind him. Also I swear Bart Scott was credited for a tackle, but my volume was low so I wasn't sure.

White seems concussed when he speaks; Ismail seems to be thinking, "If...keep...stringing...words...eventually...time...over;" and Sandusky sounds like he's just trying to be as affable as possible because he knows he sounds somewhat competent compared to the others.

White needs to go and Ismail needs to take more pride in his craft. Sandusky is at his ceiling methinks but would be fine if someone else could pull their weight. 

9 minutes ago, trevorsteadman said:

He will most likely start on PUP then which means that is another opening for another player to make this team... He was the 4th safety at best on this roster anyway. Probably a good thing in the end to stash him until mid season when injuries pile on.

Can't PUP someone who's practiced already unless they've changed the rule so it actually kind of screws us. 

Elam can't catch a break, it's insane. 

I like Matt Elam. Always have liked him as a guy. Looking forward to seeing him put it together this year after a strong season and solid showings so far in preseason. 

47 minutes ago, thecommish said:

man... its time Harbs comes down on our DC.... Pees sucks and has since he has been here. He is destroying a very good defense and Harbs needs to stop making excuses for him!

I think the writing is on the wall for Pees. Harbs' comment about "guys on the sideline being happy with 3 yard gains" was a dog whistle imo. Either this defense gets back to suffocating the run and creating turnovers or Frazier will be running the show after the BYE. 

Definitely need to show Orr some love. Someone compared him to Scott and I think that's an apt viewpoint. Excited to see what he can do on Sundays.

5 hours ago, rossihunter2 said:

Could this be phantom I/r calling?

I think he'll go to IR but I don't think there's anything phantom about it. Seems like a young guy that needs to work on his conditioning/nutrition a bit to compete consistently in this league. He got juked out of his cleats. Clearly has solid instincts, excited to see him next training camp. 

1 minute ago, rmw10 said:

There's no question whatsoever that this secondary has been incredibly shaky the past 2-3 years.  Something eventually has to give there.  I just don't see the sense in knocking someone like Levine who had multiple instances of good coverage, but a few where the throw was just placed perfectly.  Think there was a lot more positive than negative from him.  I don't think Jimmy was tested enough to be able to say one way or another.  Wright and Powers were the targets most of the 1st Q.

Fair point. I guess I'm giving Levine a hard time because some seem to have such high hopes for him and we've been burned in that regard in the past (See: Melvin, Rashaan; Webb, Lardarius post-injury). I do hope that we're seeing isolated instances and not things that are symptomatic of lack of ability.

And to stop being negative, Levine showed me a ton with that run back. He's clearly there mentally, I just hope he has the physical talent to consistently make those kinds of plays. 

2 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

I think you're reading a bit much into it.  CBs are always going to get beat to some extent.  It's not making excuses.  There's no CB that can go out there and not get "beat."  That's how football works.  I always try to look at it as good coverage and bad coverage, not beat or not beat.

Totally get where you're both coming from, but to me this isn't  judgment based on one game. This is based on 3 years of less than stellar secondary play and the reactions we've had to that collectively. Even in 2013 it was much more about the pass rush than the secondary. 

6 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

To an extent.  Sometimes you can do everything right in coverage - stay tight on the hip and run step for step with the guy - but the ball is still complete.  Sometimes there's just a perfect throw where a CB has no chance to make a play on it.  It happens.  Although you can say beat, I don't think it's a fair representation.

Perhaps, but I would just call that getting beat by a perfect throw. It happens, but no need for the sugar in my opinion.

Also, to say there was "no play" isn't totally true. Ed Reed made a career off diagnosing plays and beating the ball to the spot. Ed Reed was a generational talent I understand and that's a very difficult play to make, but there's always a play to be made. I guess I'm just tired of having guys that are OK, coupled with lowered expectations for what they should be able to do on the field. 

3 minutes ago, Jacquouille said:

Getting beat is natural for a DB, OC gameplan for that to happen. Giving up a few short/medium passes in the game is fine. Last year we got abused because we gave up 55yards TDs twice per game.

Totally agree that it's a part of the game, I was just challenging the way we kind of make excuses for our guys.